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Carr-ections...

Andrew6

Andrew6

All Pro
I've heard alot of RUMORS, and I stress rumors, I'm honestly tired of hearing everyone say " get rid of Carr, He stinks" etc... Who the hell do people figure can come to the Texans and make some sort of immediate impact. Sage Rosefels? Sage is deff. not battle tested. Plummer? There's a reason he's not playing in Denver. Some rookie? ANOTHER year of rebuilding... The truth of the matter is, bringing in a vet. QB or even bringing in a new QB is foolish. Give David Carr some competition, make him fight for his job, and I don't mean just for one week, I'm talking about every week make him want it. Thats the only way I could possibly see progress with out starting over from the beginning with our offense.
 
Andrew6 said:
I've heard alot of RUMORS, and I stress rumors, I'm honestly tired of hearing everyone say " get rid of Carr, He stinks" etc... Who the hell do people figure can come to the Texans and make some sort of immediate impact. Sage Rosefels? Sage is deff. not battle tested. Plummer? There's a reason he's not playing in Denver. Some rookie? ANOTHER year of rebuilding... The truth of the matter is, bringing in a vet. QB or even bringing in a new QB is foolish. Give David Carr some competition, make him fight for his job, and I don't mean just for one week, I'm talking about every week make him want it. Thats the only way I could possibly see progress with out starting over from the beginning with our offense.
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First

Who the hell do people figure can come to the Texans and make some sort of immediate impact. Sage Rosefels? Sage is deff. not battle tested.
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Then

Give David Carr some competition, make him fight for his job, and I don't mean just for one week, I'm talking about every week make him want it. Thats the only way I could possibly see progress with out starting over from the beginning with our offense.
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Finally


The truth of the matter is, bringing in a vet. QB or even bringing in a new QB is foolish.
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Ok you want David Carr to be challenged, you want David Carr to actually have competition going into camp, that actually has the skills to compete and challenge him.................(so do I)

But you don't believe Sage is that guy, which you admit..........then you say

The truth of the matter is, bringing in a vet. QB or even bringing in a new QB is foolish.
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how the hell are we suppossed to find somebody to compete with Carr, if the answer isn't here and we aren't suppossed to bring anybody in...........I'm curious.
 
pick someone up in the draft and let them learn to be the step up , i was meaning from an immediate impact standpoint
 
also i like sage, just don't know if he's capable of making a starting position the entire year, might be a bit frail.
 
Andrew6 said:
also i like sage, just don't know if he's capable of making a starting position the entire year, might be a bit frail.
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I don't really know where frail comes from. Yea he broke his hand playing ST...but this is football. A broken hand is not too uncommon.
 
my first reaction says get jake and draft kolb with our second/third pick. somebody gets cut before the season but hey... i apologize if my mathematics are wrong and this is impossible. like i said, it's my first reaction.
 
I'm not sure how to feel about Carr. I want him to stick around and prove people wrong, but then again, maybe Houston isnt the best place for him, and he needs a change of scenery. I don't see what is wrong with drafting a QB and letting him sit a while as Carr and Sage, maybe Plummer, battle it out. I'm still thinking that Carr will win the postion battle, maybe not by much, but he will win, and then we take things from there.
 
With that logic, I guess I broke my neck as a kid since my toe is connected to it through various other connections.
 
I don't think it's a coincidence that Jake Plummer had his worst year in Denver after Kubiak left. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the entire Denver offense wasn't as good after Kubiak left. It's also not coincidence that Plummer had his best years while Kubiak was the OC. So yes, I think Jake Plummer would have more of an immediate impact than Carr. I think Rosenfels would have more of an impact than Carr as well.
 
TexanSam said:
I don't think it's a coincidence that Jake Plummer had his worst year in Denver after Kubiak left. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the entire Denver offense wasn't as good after Kubiak left. It's also not coincidence that Plummer had his best years while Kubiak was the OC. So yes, I think Jake Plummer would have more of an immediate impact than Carr. I think Rosenfels would have more of an impact than Carr as well.
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Could not agree more. I'd rather have Plummer or Rosenfels with a drafted rookie learning then Carr, the dissension, the booing and the same old, some old. I think a break for both parties is best. I'm tired of the years passing by while Carr can't learn the most basic QBing tenents....don't take unnecessary sacks and don't eye screw your receivers before throwing to them.
 
take someone who Kubiak likes at QB in FA and/or in the draft and let them all battle it out. I know thats easier than it sounds, but competition brings out the best in players, and hopefully it can for someone. I'm tired of defending Carr and reading on people hating on him, I just want to see the QB situation solved whatever that may be. If it means Carr staying, fine by me; if Carr gets traded, no big deal. Lets just fix the QB situation and move on, too many people are getting caught up in Carr alone.
 
LORK 88 said:
take someone who Kubiak likes at QB in FA and/or in the draft and let them all battle it out. I know thats easier than it sounds, but competition brings out the best in players, and hopefully it can for someone. I'm tired of defending Carr and reading on people hating on him, I just want to see the QB situation solved whatever that may be. If it means Carr staying, fine by me; if Carr gets traded, no big deal. Lets just fix the QB situation and move on, too many people are getting caught up in Carr alone.
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couldnt have said it better lork.
 
LORK 88 said:
take someone who Kubiak likes at QB in FA and/or in the draft and let them all battle it out. I know thats easier than it sounds, but competition brings out the best in players, and hopefully it can for someone. I'm tired of defending Carr and reading on people hating on him, I just want to see the QB situation solved whatever that may be. If it means Carr staying, fine by me; if Carr gets traded, no big deal. Lets just fix the QB situation and move on, too many people are getting caught up in Carr alone.
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I agree but I think the Carr situation took on a life of its own a couple of years back. The problem now is that you have players(IMHO), fans and coaches who aren't sure if they can trust the guy in games and who are tired of the rhetoric. People are already off his bandwagon by a country mile. After 5 years he still hasn't shown that he can master the basics of being an NFL QB and even with competition you are still setting yourself up for those who will boo and want your backup or they will boo and want to hold onto their Carr fantasy like they have too long already. It sets up for a team divided. The best bet is to ship him off, wish him luck and hope you both do better with a change of scenery. We can get a FA QB who is probably a better fit at this time and we can draft a guy to groom. All in all the whole "Carr" fiasco won't be a lingering cloud like it has been for the last 2 years. The only thing I see competition as bringing at this point is team and fan base divided and debating a year too long.
 
HoustonFrog said:
Could not agree more. I'd rather have Plummer or Rosenfels with a drafted rookie learning then Carr, the dissension, the booing and the same old, some old. I think a break for both parties is best. I'm tired of the years passing by while Carr can't learn the most basic QBing tenents....don't take unnecessary sacks and don't eye screw your receivers before throwing to them.
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What has Sage Rosenfels done, besides be the always loved backup quarterback, to have people believe that he'll do better than Carr? How does a backup QB,who for some strange reason was behind David Carr, have the confidence of an entire city? That just doesn't make any sense. As far as Jake Plummer, you'd be getting somebody to plug the hole until a better solution became available. David Carr hasn't done great in his 5 years here, but he has also had to run for his life every game under to previous regime. This was the first year that David was in a system where he wasn't forced to drop back and pray after 3 seconds. Put Carr behind the offensive line of the Patriots and he would have been a better qb. Give Carr a running game and watch his passer rating improve. It was his first season under Kubiak and midway through it, he was one of the more accurate qb's in the league. Then the starting center went down and he began to struggle. Give Carr another season under Kubiak and see how well he progresses. I think that with a good running game and some protection, David Carr can be better than most people think.
 
ASTRODOME2002 said:
What has Sage Rosenfels done, besides be the always loved backup quarterback, to have people believe that he'll do better than Carr? How does a backup QB,who for some strange reason was behind David Carr, have the confidence of an entire city? That just doesn't make any sense. As far as Jake Plummer, you'd be getting somebody to plug the hole until a better solution became available. David Carr hasn't done great in his 5 years here, but he has also had to run for his life every game under to previous regime. This was the first year that David was in a system where he wasn't forced to drop back and pray after 3 seconds. Put Carr behind the offensive line of the Patriots and he would have been a better qb. Give Carr a running game and watch his passer rating improve. It was his first season under Kubiak and midway through it, he was one of the more accurate qb's in the league. Then the starting center went down and he began to struggle. Give Carr another season under Kubiak and see how well he progresses. I think that with a good running game and some protection, David Carr can be better than most people think.
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He has the confidence of the city because in 3 pre season games he out played David Carr and th ONLY game we lost was the game CARR played.
He showed presence poise and the ablity to see an open receiver something david carr can't do.

Additionally he came very close to bring this team back against Tennessee and frankly Kubiak should of played him the next week. Not gone back to the broken down Carr. We might of actually been competitive this season.

Lastly Kubiak said he's a leader, the team gravitated to him
The fans gravitated to him. I personally say try it. I know one thing for sure, he's better than David Carr. So if you want to argue Sage is a backup so be it but in teh battle of the TWO back Quarterbacks, i choose Sage.

Plummer, over the hill IMO too.
 
texan_fan_8 said:
He has the confidence of the city because in 3 pre season games he out played David Carr and th ONLY game we lost was the game CARR played.
He showed presence poise and the ablity to see an open receiver something david carr can't do.

Additionally he came very close to bring this team back against Tennessee and frankly Kubiak should of played him the next week. Not gone back to the broken down Carr. We might of actually been competitive this season.

Lastly Kubiak said he's a leader, the team gravitated to him
The fans gravitated to him. I personally say try it. I know one thing for sure, he's better than David Carr. So if you want to argue Sage is a backup so be it but in teh battle of the TWO back Quarterbacks, i choose Sage.

Plummer, over the hill IMO too.
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I agree with what you said about Rosenfels. He slid in the pocket and looked much more comfortible with the same line.

As for Carr himself and the other baggage, my post at the end of page 1 explains that. All I keep seeing is this fantasy that Carr can be good if we stick him in a "perfect" situation......no injuries, perfect line, great RBs, a TE and some receivers that can get off the line, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't happen in this parity filled league.
 
HoustonFrog said:
I agree with what you said about Rosenfels. He slid in the pocket and looked much more comfortible with the same line.

As for Carr himself and the other baggage, my post at the end of page 1 explains that. All I keep seeing is this fantasy that Carr can be good if we stick him in a "perfect" situation......no injuries, perfect line, great RBs, a TE and some receivers that can get off the line, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't happen in this parity filled league.
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I dont know that he would need all of those things, but just one would help. The point is that this year, which people say is his worst, he had no running game most of the season, he had an injury plagued O-Line, and to add to this he was in a new system. The WR/TE thing, I don't know about, that is a symptom of the other two, in reality the lack of running game is a symptom of the line as well. It seemed that Carr was at his best hitting Owen Daniels so I say the TE thing is fixed in its own right, same for the WR. If we can, we should pick up Anthony Gonzalez if he is on the board in the 3rd, or if we get an extra 2nd.
 
QB's that suck:

1. Carr
2. Plummer
3. Sage

We are picking 8th in the draft....We are all going to have to accept that fact that we are stuck with these options.

I'm not even sure we can keep Carr and still get Plummer who has a fantastic record playing under Kubiak.

I personally think Carr will not be traded, he's not worth anything and we all know it...Best case scenario *in my opinion* would be to have Carr and Sage battle it out for the starting job because that's the only thing rational to do.

I am just glad people like Rick Smith are handling this instead of people on this message board.
 
What about bringing Porter up from the pra ctice squad and giving him some reps with the starters. We must have drafted him for a reason.:twocents:
 
fdknuckles said:
What about bringing Porter up from the pra ctice squad and giving him some reps with the starters. We must have drafted him for a reason.:twocents:
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They are testing his QB skills in NFL Europe. I can't believe people even forget we also have Bradlee Van Pelt. He was good when he was in Denver. Carr needs to go in my opinion. He is the next comming of Tim Couch!!! :tearup:
 
SamuraiSword said:
They are testing his QB skills in NFL Europe. I can't believe people even forget we also have Bradlee Van Pelt. He was good when he was in Denver. Carr needs to go in my opinion. He is the next comming of Tim Couch!!! :tearup:
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We should send Carr to NFL Europe to test his skills over there. We seem to have a good track record with NFLE QB's, but not so much with NFL QB's.
 
Aztequila said:
I dont know that he would need all of those things, but just one would help. The point is that this year, which people say is his worst, he had no running game most of the season, he had an injury plagued O-Line, and to add to this he was in a new system. The WR/TE thing, I don't know about, that is a symptom of the other two, in reality the lack of running game is a symptom of the line as well. It seemed that Carr was at his best hitting Owen Daniels so I say the TE thing is fixed in its own right, same for the WR. If we can, we should pick up Anthony Gonzalez if he is on the board in the 3rd, or if we get an extra 2nd.
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My problem...well one of many..lol...is that you would then have to assume, after 5 years, that the guy can be good. Considering he can't throw the ball out of bounds or not stare down receivers it seems obvious that he lacks QBing skills in general when it comes to the NFL. It isn't a travesty. I mean Couch, Leaf and others were all talented high round picks that had great college years and they failed in the NFL. The second part of my problem will be answered below.........
 
sleepwalker said:
QB's that suck:

1. Carr
2. Plummer
3. Sage

We are picking 8th in the draft....We are all going to have to accept that fact that we are stuck with these options.

I'm not even sure we can keep Carr and still get Plummer who has a fantastic record playing under Kubiak.

I personally think Carr will not be traded, he's not worth anything and we all know it...Best case scenario *in my opinion* would be to have Carr and Sage battle it out for the starting job because that's the only thing rational to do.

I am just glad people like Rick Smith are handling this instead of people on this message board.
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Plummer has at least shown success under one year with Kubiak. I'm not asking for the guy to be a savior, just to be better than Carr while we train some young talent. I've said it a million times but I don't get the Resenfels v. Carr thing. You are just setting the team and city up for dissension. Is that really a healthy thing to have one guy being booed while the other sits on the sideline or if it is vice versa having one guy play while people wonder if their Carr love should get in the game?Overall it is horrible. The best solution out of some bad ones is to let all parties start over and wish everyone luck.
 
texan_fan_8 said:
He has the confidence of the city because in 3 pre season games he out played David Carr and th ONLY game we lost was the game CARR played.
He showed presence poise and the ablity to see an open receiver something david carr can't do.

Additionally he came very close to bring this team back against Tennessee and frankly Kubiak should of played him the next week. Not gone back to the broken down Carr. We might of actually been competitive this season.

Lastly Kubiak said he's a leader, the team gravitated to him
The fans gravitated to him. I personally say try it. I know one thing for sure, he's better than David Carr. So if you want to argue Sage is a backup so be it but in teh battle of the TWO back Quarterbacks, i choose Sage.

Plummer, over the hill IMO too.
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So, you're saying that Sage Rosenfels is better than Carr because of 3 PRE-SEASON games? Sage is better in the games that don't count? I remember the one game this past season that Sage played when Carr was hurt. As I remember it, the Texans scored less than 10 points and the offense couldn't move the football. It was one of the worst offensive showings of the season for the Texans. I will look up the stats, but it wasn't pretty.
 
HoustonFrog said:
I agree but I think the Carr situation took on a life of its own a couple of years back. The problem now is that you have players(IMHO), fans and coaches who aren't sure if they can trust the guy in games and who are tired of the rhetoric. People are already off his bandwagon by a country mile. After 5 years he still hasn't shown that he can master the basics of being an NFL QB and even with competition you are still setting yourself up for those who will boo and want your backup or they will boo and want to hold onto their Carr fantasy like they have too long already. It sets up for a team divided. The best bet is to ship him off, wish him luck and hope you both do better with a change of scenery. We can get a FA QB who is probably a better fit at this time and we can draft a guy to groom. All in all the whole "Carr" fiasco won't be a lingering cloud like it has been for the last 2 years. The only thing I see competition as bringing at this point is team and fan base divided and debating a year too long.
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Truer words were never spoken. :thumbup
 
ASTRODOME2002 said:
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So, you're saying that Sage Rosenfels is better than Carr because of 3 PRE-SEASON games? Sage is better in the games that don't count? I remember the one game this past season that Sage played when Carr was hurt. As I remember it, the Texans scored less than 10 points and the offense couldn't move the football. It was one of the worst offensive showings of the season for the Texans. I will look up the stats, but it wasn't pretty.
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Sage played in 3 games this past season. He went 27/39 for 265 yards, 3 touchdowns and 1 interception.

He came in at the end against Dallas and went 8/11 for 70 yards.

He came in against the Titans when Carr was benched for fumbling and went 18 for 25 for 186 yards, 3 TD's and 1 pick in a half of play. The argument here is that even though he brought us back and almost won this game for us, he was facing a prevent defense most of the time.

And finally, he came in against the Jags and went 1 for 3 for 9 yards.

I don't think Sage is the answer but you can't argue that he's looked bad in the "real" games he's played in. The only really bad outing was against the Jags and that was only a few plays.
 
Okay here we go with some research on a few QB's. Setup is this Name, YRS in NFL, Pass Att., Comp., %. Total YDS., YPA., TD., INT.
Plummer-10, 4350, 2484, 57.1, 29253, 6.72, 161, 161. (Since 2004 Pass Atts. have gone down every yr.) Garcia-8, 2973, 1811, 60.9, 20385, 6.86, 136, 73. Rosenfels-6, 148, 81, 54.7, 1041, 7.03, 9, 7. Kitna-10-3433, 2039, 59.4, 22467, 6.54, 129, 126. Carr-5-2070-1243-60.0-13391-6.47-59-65. T. Brady-7-3064, 1896, 61.9, 21564, 7.04, 147, 78. P. Manning-9, 4890, 3131, 64.0, 37586, 7.69, 275, 139. Just some infro to fuel the fires.
 
ASTRODOME2002 said:
What has Sage Rosenfels done, besides be the always loved backup quarterback, to have people believe that he'll do better than Carr? How does a backup QB,who for some strange reason was behind David Carr, have the confidence of an entire city? That just doesn't make any sense. As far as Jake Plummer, you'd be getting somebody to plug the hole until a better solution became available. David Carr hasn't done great in his 5 years here, but he has also had to run for his life every game under to previous regime. This was the first year that David was in a system where he wasn't forced to drop back and pray after 3 seconds. Put Carr behind the offensive line of the Patriots and he would have been a better qb. Give Carr a running game and watch his passer rating improve. It was his first season under Kubiak and midway through it, he was one of the more accurate qb's in the league. Then the starting center went down and he began to struggle. Give Carr another season under Kubiak and see how well he progresses. I think that with a good running game and some protection, David Carr can be better than most people think.
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There were 9 teams with new HC/new coaches/new players/new schemes,etc., so maybe you just picked a bad year to defend Carr, because most of those teams did better than us...
 
I don't give a rats a.. about David Carr. All I care about is the Houston Texans!

Now, whoever the guys with their livelihoods on the line (Smith/Kubiak) choose to go with, i've got their back.

KICK A.. TEXANS IN 2007
 
its easy to say carr sux and we need a good quarterback. The hard part... we don't have a better option right now. All we can do is create competition and hope that he improves, getting rid of him would be retarded.
 
yourfavoritetexan42 said:
its easy to say carr sux and we need a good quarterback. The hard part... we don't have a better option right now. All we can do is create competition and hope that he improves, getting rid of him would be retarded.
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...no, keeping him-as you said...don't think 11 tds would be hard to beat...
 
Too be honest I think you guys should just bite the bullet with Carr and try and trade him for whatever you can get because he is defintely not the answer in my opinion.

There aren't too many good FA QB's out there, but if Quinn or Russell were to fall to the 8th overall selection, I think you guys may be best off with that. If neither do fall though, I honestly think a guy with potential to be good is Kevin Kolb out of Houston. He could be a good choice with your guys' 2nd or 3rd round pick, and he is also a local guy too, played at UH.

So even if Carr stayed, I still think you guys should draft Kolb and it may be possible he unseats Carr sometime during the season, kind of like how Vince Young or Tony Romo unseated Kerry Collins and Drew Bledsoe.
 
I'm blown away as I read more and more of the Carr must go posts. What I haven't seen, is one person write, with some reality, who we're supposed to get to run this offense. I don't see one FA QB who is going to come to this team and make that impact we're hoping for.

Of the active starters at QB, I really feel the only guy who could have come in here and offered some excitement in our first 5 years was M. Vick. He might have been able to rack up some back, to back, to back, to back 1,000 yard seasons as a capable running for his life QB and taken less punishment than Carr, but changing the end results? No way.

If Kubiak feels like this is a 3 year project, then I'm ok with it. Personally, I feel the disasterous first 4 years could force Kubiak to make this a 4 year project to correct. The first 4 years of drafts really made zero headway for this organization. What Kubiak got as a team last year could have been just as easily mistaken for a team that was just created via the New Franchise, FA Pool and College Draft picks.

This does not fall on Kubiaks, Carr, our RB's or our D's shoulders, this massive screw up falls squarely on the shoulders of Casserly and Capers. This is why we are absolutely starting at zero. Kubiak has some pieces placed but the next 2 years will be huge regarding the FA and Draft pick decisions. If Kubes and the FO have done thier jobs, we should be ready to contend for the next several years starting his 3rd or 4th year.

If Kolb is still there in RD 3, 4 or later, I like using a pick on him. IMHO, Carr and Sage both have to know that the rookie is also there to compete for the starting job. This hopefully pushes all 3 to find out who wants it more. No sense at this time in eating contract money because this ressurection isn't going to happen next year, so we might as well concentrate on the other glaring weaknesses this team has. If Carr doesn't make it then we have Sage, if Sage doesn't make it then the Rookie has a chance to grow with the team Kubiak is assembling. Again, I'm not expecting nothing more tham improvement next year.
 
The only thing that keeps my faith in Carr was the beginning of the season. You know, averaging about 200 yards and 2 TD's a game, leading the league in passer rating...anyone remeber what happened then? The way I remember it is teams figgured out we couldnt run, so they doubled and trippled AJ. Then 60% of our starting O-line was injured and we reverted to the 3 yards and a cloud of dust passing game to keep DC from being killed.

I dont know if Carr will ever be a good QB in the NFL, but as long as he is wearing a Texans jersey and Kubiak believes in him enough to hand him the reigns, im behind him, still keeping the faith.
 
run-david-run said:
The only thing that keeps my faith in Carr was the beginning of the season. You know, averaging about 200 yards and 2 TD's a game, leading the league in passer rating...anyone remeber what happened then? The way I remember it is teams figgured out we couldnt run, so they doubled and trippled AJ. Then 60% of our starting O-line was injured and we reverted to the 3 yards and a cloud of dust passing game to keep DC from being killed.

I dont know if Carr will ever be a good QB in the NFL, but as long as he is wearing a Texans jersey and Kubiak believes in him enough to hand him the reigns, im behind him, still keeping the faith.
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...yeah, Carr threw for 7 tds his first 4 games(3 in 1 game) and then 4 tds in the next 12!...talk about the bottom falling out! Who was making adjustments?...8 tds in 15 games, we were lucky to get 6 wins...
 
They way I see it is that if Carr is passing less, lets say "20 times per game". It means that the run is working for us. So you balance it out with some pass plays. So it makes sense that we can win when our run is producing, and our passing plays are thrown in.

I don't know about alot of this Carr debate, not being in Houston, but it seems that people on the board are just tired of losing, as am I. Living in Charger Country, it sucks when you have to defend your losing team all the time. Anyway, back to the point. Our reasons for losing are deeper than David Carr. Its just that its easy to blame the guy under center, and act like the rest of the team is full of superstars.
 
I would like to see us take Troy Smith in the second (if he falls to us), groom him under Carr for a year so that he learns our offense. Then make him compete with Carr for the start of the 08 season.

TS is a smallish QB but the Texans seem to like this new bootleg approach they have taken this past year and if TS proved anything during the Senior Bowl its that he plays very well out of pocket (much better than he does in pocket). He would do much better than Carr outside the pocket and seems to be good with his feet. :aikido:

My 2 cents.
 
Sage has and allways will be a back up QB thats just his role. When he started at Miami he was not all that. Dont you all remb that. As far as the whole Carr thing I think he could be a good QB I just dont know if he will ever be that for the Texans. I think they should just give him one more year let him battle it out with who ever and let the coaches decide what to do. If they trade Carr we are going to be stuck with no one and then what. We would have wasted all those years trying to groom him, for what? Another year under Kubes and hopefully we will pick up a few key atributes, hint hint a star RB!!!! We need to balance the pass and run out. If we can do that then the passing lanes will open up for who ever is under center.
 
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