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Anybody going wobbly on the decision to hire Kubiak ?

N

nunusguy

Hall of Fame
Obviously Kubiak himself is not going anyplace in the near future, but if Texan fans are completely honest with themselves, you have to admit that Kubiack has already made or contributed to the worst and most damaging decisions in this franchises history. If you don't buy that, then you're deluding yourself.
David Carr is more likely than not out of here in the offseason, but drafting him #1 way back in 2002 wasn't the mistake(s) made with Carr, it was almost surely the way he was developed since arriving here.
The decisions made early this year with the extension of the Carr contract and in the Draft to select Mario with the #1 pick were decisions that Kubiack
was right in the middle of, if not the principal decision maker.
And some of Kubiaks gametime-onfield decisions. I dunno ?
Just for the record I have no loyalty or affiliation with UT, and my preference
in the Draft (and still is and would be for the 2007 Draft), was to trade the pick for multiple players.
 
I am all for Kubiak and the progress he has made with the team in total. There were hires he made on the staff that appear to be mistakes, but that can be rectified. He also had some personnel issues - injuries and players not earning their keep and that can be rectified.

This is not a UT/A&M thing and if one makes it that then go to your college board of choice as the games are completely different.
 
Am I wobbly on the Kubiak decision? Not really. Here are some choices he's made that I find interesting:

Mario Williams over VY and RB: Obviously this was on him, and I think he made the wrong choice. If I was in his shoes, however, I think I would have made the same choice. Hindsight is 20/20, but when you're an offensive minded coach, you have to give yourself enough weapons on the other side of the ball not to look bad. Enter the top D prospect at the time in the draft.

Going with Carr this year: Again, I think it was the wrong choice looking back, but again, based on the game tape and the ineptness of Dom Capers, I think Kubiak made the best decision he could have.

Here are the things I do fault him for:
Cutting many serviceable depth guys who had reasonable contracts:
Antwoine Smith, Sam Cowart, Seth Wand. All those guys could have helped out tremendously given the injuries we hd this year, yet were shown the door for no apparent reason. A 2-14 team can't afford to cut veteeran depth.

Cutting Robaire Smith because we were "stacked" at DT. That didn't work out so well, did it, with 3 DT on IR. I still think RS was a producer

Playing so conservatively on offense - For an offensive minded coach, his style of football looks very much like Dom Capers

Putting out an offensive product like we've been seeing: For all his coaching savvy, our offense is an embarassment.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I am all for Kubiak and the progress he has made with the team in total. There were hires he made on the staff that appear to be mistakes, but that can be rectified. He also had some personnel issues - injuries and players not earning their keep and that can be rectified.

This is not a UT/A&M thing and if one makes it that then go to your college board of choice as the games are completely different.
Click to expand...

He's the perfect man for the job now that VY isn't available. He wouldn't be a good coach for VY. Fisher will be. He's a defense guy. He loves being able to have a guy play within himself for 50 minutes but have the capacity to take over when called upon. That run in overtime was set up the entire game by his patience. He disguised that option until it was winning time.
 
Anybody going wobbly on the decision to hire Kubiak ?
No..

but after a few crappy years with Doom Capers ..so what if Kubiak wasn't ready from the get go (2002). Couldn't have been any worst.

I bet the Texans would be a contender by now.
 
gtexan02 said:
Am I wobbly on the Kubiak decision? Not really. Here are some choices he's made that I find interesting:

Mario Williams over VY and RB: Obviously this was on him, and I think he made the wrong choice. If I was in his shoes, however, I think I would have made the same choice. Hindsight is 20/20, but when you're an offensive minded coach, you have to give yourself enough weapons on the other side of the ball not to look bad. Enter the top D prospect at the time in the draft.

Going with Carr this year: Again, I think it was the wrong choice looking back, but again, based on the game tape and the ineptness of Dom Capers, I think Kubiak made the best decision he could have.

Here are the things I do fault him for:
Cutting many serviceable depth guys who had reasonable contracts:
Antwoine Smith, Sam Cowart, Seth Wand. All those guys could have helped out tremendously given the injuries we hd this year, yet were shown the door for no apparent reason. A 2-14 team can't afford to cut veteeran depth.

Cutting Robaire Smith because we were "stacked" at DT. That didn't work out so well, did it, with 3 DT on IR. I still think RS was a producer

Playing so conservatively on offense - For an offensive minded coach, his style of football looks very much like Dom Capers

Putting out an offensive product like we've been seeing: For all his coaching savvy, our offense is an embarassment.
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Yeah I've seen Jeff Fisher pounding that pick up your feet Vince and put them down play for a long time before they got it right. The QB is the problem here. He's deadly within 6 inches in a vacuum. He threw 2 balls past the line of scrimmage last week. He's the Jessica Simpson of pro football.
 
I don't think you can fairly evaluate any coach in less than a few years. Kubiak has had success at every stop - the rest of this team has not. It will take some time for him to get his people in place, but he has already shown he'll make personnel changes to fit his system, regardless of perceived status on the team. I am optimistic about Kubiak.
 
Not wobbly in the least. I'm 1 of those weirdos who actually gives people a reasonable amount of time before judging them. :shrug:
 
nunusguy said:
Obviously Kubiak himself is not going anyplace in the near future, but if Texan fans are completely honest with themselves, you have to admit that Kubiack has already made or contributed to the worst and most damaging decisions in this franchises history. If you don't buy that, then you're deluding yourself.
David Carr is more likely than not out of here in the offseason, but drafting him #1 way back in 2002 wasn't the mistake(s) made with Carr, it was almost surely the way he was developed since arriving here.
The decisions made early this year with the extension of the Carr contract and in the Draft to select Mario with the #1 pick were decisions that Kubiack
was right in the middle of, if not the principal decision maker.
And some of Kubiaks gametime-onfield decisions. I dunno ?
Just for the record I have no loyalty or affiliation with UT, and my preference
in the Draft (and still is and would be for the 2007 Draft), was to trade the pick for multiple players.
Click to expand...


I think that given the circumstances at the time, most incoming coaches would have re-signed Carr and not picked quarterback. Basically, Kubiak was hired and then the Carr decision had to be made right away.

If you have quarterback, it is hard to justify salary/cap wise another quarterback.

He was squarely in the Mario-Bush decision.

It is too early to evaluate any of this stuff, and to be fair, our schedule this year has been another coach killer one. The Texans are the only team in the league that had 6 of 8 on the road with a stretch of 3 on the road in the middle.

Injury-wise, the team is at the top of the league with players on IR.

Offensive-line wise, the only team with less consistency on the offensive line (same players week to week), is the Cardinals.

It is worth nothing, even though it doesn't make you feel any better, since week 5, all the losses have been close ones, and even that blowout loss that week was a game that the Texans were leading at the half.

There's a bunch of issues with the team, and easily you could draft or acquire FAs at just about every position and find someone you need.

Has Kubiak done everything perfectly? No, I am sure there are a lot of decisions he would take back.
 
No. Look at Parcells in Dallas. How many years did it take for him to get the QB situation squared away? How many times did the team seem to do well and then fold in the playoffs? Parcells is a super bowl winning coach and the Cowboys just got it handed to them by the Saints.

Being a coach in the NFL is probably one of the toughest jobs in the world, but one of the most rewarding too. Kubiak deserves his shot and will be here for at least two or three more years.

All of this VY, RB, and draft stuff will be forgotten and forgiven when we beat the Titans, and have a winning record. Kubiak knows this and is working towards that goal.
 
Regardless of his passing on Bush and VY, I like the overall draft. As a result of our selections, we added:

1. A MLB that is likely the DROY
2. A DE that will man the left side of the line for the next decade
3. A TE that actually gives the Texans a receiving threat at the position for the first time since Billy Miller left. Additionally, Daniels isn't the liability at blocking that Miller was.
4. A true #2 receiver (the 5th we gave Buffalo for Moulds)
5. Two potential starters on the O-line
6. A 6th round RB that if nothing else, has contributed in his rookie year.

The only real question mark I have is Walter, and we gave up a 7th rounder and a few too many dollars for him. This team had never had a good draft class. I don't think people realize how devoid this team was of talent at the end of last year. Looking at the guys we had at the end of last year, there are only three "keepers" that I would take with me to build a team from scratch: AJ, Dunta Robinson, and Jerome Mathis. As much as it pains me, that is where this team is.

We Kubiak came onto this scene we were a pathetic 2-14 team with really no areas of strength. Every facet of the game needed to be fixed except possibly the rushing attack, but that was when we had DD. Kubiak has built up the receiving core, improved the front seven on defense, and protected Carr from taking the same level of beating he did last year (physically that is). He has a lot of work but he has made strides.
 
I have had doubts ever since he was hired amid all the hero-worshipping and hoopla. He was canonized before he took the job with everybody gushing over his 500 Super Bowl rings, none of which he got as a starting player or head coach and the tag of can't-miss was on him. He is still untested, his offense & play-calling has been poor, too conservative (albeit with lack of good personnel) and he has been playing not to win. I was not against him and I am still not against him as coach because he hasn't been here long enough to make a decision on whether he was the right pick. I do, however, get very irate at his insistence that he could make Carr a star and his #1 draft choice which will haunt us for years to come. Hopefully, things will improve at some time in the future and he will be a great head coach. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
 
not at all, Kubiak is the best coach for this team, people are so mad about the texans, but this season has been a success, we won twice as many games, and to the people who were expectin playoffs, that is just dumb, not alot of teams go from worst team to the playoffs, so i am very happy with kubiak, he keeps players accountable, he'll be the coach for years and years to come, and acouple super bowls
 
nunusguy said:
Obviously Kubiak himself is not going anyplace in the near future, but if Texan fans are completely honest with themselves, you have to admit that Kubiack has already made or contributed to the worst and most damaging decisions in this franchises history. If you don't buy that, then you're deluding yourself.
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I think Casserly was the worst and most damaging decision in this organization's short history.

The Bush/Young debacle is probably the worst PR decision, but on a pure football basis, Casserly set this team back with his boneheaded personel decisions.

I'm down with Kubiak, though. Most first year head coaches struggle, so I fully expected this season to be like this (including the Titans game with the exception of VY winning it in OT in dramatic fashion).

We've definitely had the best draft in our history, and I have no reason to believe that this trend won't continue. And now that Kubiak has a full off-season to evaluate and upgrade, along with his own GM, I think we'll see some good things on the field next season.
 
I'm personally not 'wobbly' on his hire, but there are definitely areas where he needs to improve.
Whether the #1 pick was right or wrong, I still think Mario will be a very good player for a long time in this league, and combined with DeMeco and some added help, we could have a dominant D for years to come.
If we find any help @ QB, and also at a few other offensive positions, that dominant D would go a long way in helping us get over the VY/RB thing.

On the other hand, if I see another I-Formation, play action pass on third and more than 8, I might just lose it...

For God's sake Gary! we are a 4 win team! Tell Carr to forget his freakin' 'reads' for three consecutive plays and just go deep. It might be therapeutic for a couple of million people... that is, if the Texans haven't lost all of their fans at this point.
 
I still love the Kubiak decision and have total faith in him.

I think he is going to be a great head coach for us for many years.
 
Texans_Chick said:
I think that given the circumstances at the time, most incoming coaches would have re-signed Carr and not picked quarterback. Basically, Kubiak was hired and then the Carr decision had to be made right away.

If you have quarterback, it is hard to justify salary/cap wise another quarterback.

He was squarely in the Mario-Bush decision.

It is too early to evaluate any of this stuff, and to be fair, our schedule this year has been another coach killer one. The Texans are the only team in the league that had 6 of 8 on the road with a stretch of 3 on the road in the middle.

Injury-wise, the team is at the top of the league with players on IR.

Offensive-line wise, the only team with less consistency on the offensive line (same players week to week), is the Cardinals.

It is worth nothing, even though it doesn't make you feel any better, since week 5, all the losses have been close ones, and even that blowout loss that week was a game that the Texans were leading at the half.

There's a bunch of issues with the team, and easily you could draft or acquire FAs at just about every position and find someone you need.

Has Kubiak done everything perfectly? No, I am sure there are a lot of decisions he would take back.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this.

If Kubiak truly was the man who had the most say in this past draft, I am VERY excited. The 2006 Draft did so much for this team and gave us half a dozen guys who could be here for a very long time.

IMO he has done a lot with a team that is dealing with many problems, not the least of which would be the losing culture that the team has developed.

Go Kubiak! :texan:
 
Kubiak isn't even an issue in my mind right now, but his FA signings were ho-hum and this last draft was one of the deepest in years so while they blew the first pick, they made up for it when Ryans slid down the board. That draft was so deep that even if Ryans was gone we had D'Qwell Jackson sitting right there and people are comparing him to Ray Lewis....so, it will be interesting to see how he drafts in a draft with less talent. We need more talent.
 
Kubiak took the job and we all knew it was going to be an uphill battle. A realistic person isn't surprised we are 4-9, but the fashion in which it is happening is a very alarming because it seems very similar to the Capers days. This team really needs to have a lot more heart and drive.

Take out the Demeco Ryans draft pick from all of Kubiak's decisions, and I am really scratching my head. But, one player can make or break a coach, just ask Mack Brown and Jeff Fischer about that and Vince Young. Mario still needs time to develop and is injured, you really can't judge him on his first year at defensive end but he will need to make big strides next year. Too bad Spencer got hurt early in the season so we could get a better evaluation on him. What I am saying is, I am not too sold on this draft class being that strong, time will tell.

To answer the question though, I am starting to go a little wobbly on Kubiak. Football is a game of momentum, and the Texans have never really generated any momentum as a Franchise, which is what I think is really the bigger problem. I don't see how Kubiak has started to change the momentum in any way. He took on a very difficult situation that really didn't allow for many mistakes, but I am sure he understood that when he took the job.

It appears as though Kubiak could be putting himself in a big hole if he can't get things turned around quickly, meaning midway through next season. I am not talking about victories, but solid outings that show the Texans can play with any team in the league.

The way I see it, Kubiak has about 11 or 12 remaining games to get the momentum thing rolling or it will really get ugly. Arguably, Kubiak is in a worse position than he was when he started as the head coach, which is a not a good thing.
 
eriadoc said:
I don't think you can fairly evaluate any coach in less than a few years. Kubiak has had success at every stop - the rest of this team has not. It will take some time for him to get his people in place, but he has already shown he'll make personnel changes to fit his system, regardless of perceived status on the team. I am optimistic about Kubiak.
Click to expand...

How has he had success at every stop?
 
I like Gary Kubiak as our head coach, and I think he will be here for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if he is analyzing things a little too much.

I've been reading his pressers and things and it seems like he thinks a little too much about things...trying to put his players in the best position. While I think this is a good thing that he tries to put his players in the best position...I think sometimes he needs to just let his players play.

Read this Monday Presser (specifically the part about him telling Wynn to not field a punt):

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3193&section=N Latest News

Again, I think Kubiak is a great coach, but I think he has had some rookie head coaching mistakes this year (as most first year head coaches do).

What do you guys think?
 
I think what's hurt Kubiak most is his arrogance/confidence in himself.....he thought that he didn't need any significant upgrades to his offense, and he believed he could make David Carr a great Quarterback
 
The Dream said:
I think what's hurt Kubiak most is his arrogance/confidence in himself.....he thought that he didn't need any significant upgrades to his offense, and he believed he could make David Carr a great Quarterback
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I agree a bit on what your saying, but I really don't think David Carr is really his guy like he acts like he is. Kubiak seems to be a guy who is loyal to who he has but is realistic in if they need to be replaced or not.
 
Why did my thread get merged with this one....while they both are about Kubiak...a bit of a difference dont you think?

Not about being wobbly...its about if you think he is analyzing...I am not asking if people are happy or not with the choice of Kubiak as the coach.

Please put the thread back.
 
Battle Red Bull said:
He made the playoffs and been to 2 Super Bowls as a player with the Broncos.
He won a Super Bowl as a QB coach at SF.
We won 2 Super Bowls as OC at Denver.

I trust his credentials.
Click to expand...

All the credentials you mention, he wasn't an integral part of the successes, to some extent he was along for the ride.

Now, he does know the formula of success that has worked in Denver, but that doesn't mean he can replicate it again.

Kubiak is a smart guy and appears to be a good coach, but that doesn't mean he will be a successful head coach. So far, he has made more poor to bad decisions than good ones.

Kubiak is quickly digging a hole that he will have a hard time getting out of. But then again, that seems to be what happens to the Franchise as a whole no matter who is in charge or plays for the team.
 
Battle Red Bull said:
He made the playoffs and been to 2 Super Bowls as a player with the Broncos.
He won a Super Bowl as a QB coach at SF.
We won 2 Super Bowls as OC at Denver.

I trust his credentials.
Click to expand...

- Making the playoffs and getting to the Super Bowl as a backup QB, while great accomplishments, I don't know if that qualifies in coaching credentials.

As the QB coach for the 49ers for one year, I am not sure how much he was able to develop Steve Young. Steve Young was already pretty good prior to Kubiak, and a lot can said for Shanahan's (and Bill Walsh's) influence in that regard.

As offensive coordinator of the Broncos, he never called the plays. Shanahan calls the plays

I too thought Kubiak's resume looked good on paper, but once you dissect it closely, he's not that experienced at 1) playcalling 2) turning young quarterbacks into great ones. He has worked with great quarterbacks when they were already great such as (Young for one season, and Elway after he had been in the league for more than a decade), and he worked with some average ones with Jake Plummer and Brian Griese (which had lukewarm success with the first, and no success with the latter).

Perhaps we missed the ball by not hiring Cam Cameron, the offensive coordinator of San Diego. He did a great job with Bress and now Rivers, and his playcalling has been pretty awesome (although with LT in the backfield, that probably helps out quite a bit).

Sean Payton would have also been a good hire in retrospect. Some of the playcalls he made against Parcells were fantastic.

While at first I said that Kubiak needs to fired, I've calmed down a bit. But I think his history of accomplishments are a bit suspect. And his miscalculation on David Carr is a pretty blunder considering he makes his reputation as being a QB guru. The cutting of Robaire Smith also made no sense.

Does that mean that I think it was a wobbly decision? Definitely. A lot of people point to this team as being a 2-14 team last year and thus it lacks talent. But I think those people wanted Dom Capers fired because they knew that we had more talent to be better than 2-14. We were 7-9 two years ago. I also think that if we finish 4-12 that shouldn't please anyone. Afterall, we won 4 games in our first year as an expansion franchise and I think we have more talent now than when we did then.
 
Battle Red Bull said:
To some extent John Elway was along for the ride too.
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You are comparing Kubiak to Elway?

Shannahan hadn't won playoff game since Elway left until last year.

I don't understand your point.

Elway and Davis were critical to those Super Bowl runs, hands down!

Kubiak may not be as good as everyone thinks as a head coach, that's all.
 
ToroFan said:
As offensive coordinator of the Broncos, he never called the plays. Shanahan calls the plays
Click to expand...

Got a link for that? I've heard it both ways. I read a quote this offseason from Rod Smith that Kubiak called the plays.

Calling for a guy's head who hasn't even been here a year is ridiculous.
 
Battle Red Bull said:
Got a link for that? I've heard it both ways. I read a quote this offseason from Rod Smith that Kubiak called the plays.

Calling for a guy's head who hasn't even been here a year is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

IIRC, Kubiak called the plays. Shanahan had the right to override the call if desired.:)
 
hollywood_texan said:
You are comparing Kubiak to Elway?

Shannahan hadn't won playoff game since Elway left until last year.

I don't understand your point.

Elway and Davis were critical to those Super Bowl runs, hands down!

Kubiak may not be as good as everyone thinks as a head coach, that's all.
Click to expand...

My point is that it's a team game.

Asst. Coaches don't just hold the cord for the Head Coach's headset. If Kubiak flops as a Head Coach, then he wouldn't be the first failed OC.

To bash the guy at this point is a joke.
 
Vinny said:
Elway = 3 Super Bowls

Post Elway = 1 Playoff win
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:pigfly: I never thought I'd see the day that the Sensei was wrong.

Elway went to 4 Super Bowls. :aikido:

***edit****
5 Super Bowls. Just checked. Nobody remembers who the Niners beat in the 89 Super Bowl anyways.
 
I believe in my heart of hearts that Kubiak will take us to the promised land.

He took on a huge mess this year and has handled it about as well as you could in my opinion. I know every team has to fight the injury bug, but our costliest injuries have come at the three positions we could least afford them.

The Texans looked like to me that they were turning the corner on the offensive line. Charles Spencer was moving people at left tackle. Things were looking ok on the right side, and we finally got a legit NFL center.

The bright side of these injuries is that other guys, including rookie Winston, are getting some valuable game time experience. We could actually have some depth at o-line next year.

I'm not even going to talk about QB. It has been argued ad nauseum.

The defense struggled so bad early that the stats for the whole year are skewed, but this group of guys have really come on and played well. They are only going to get better. Perhaps we'll see some corner and safety help for Dunta and an outside linebacker to compliment our (hopefully) defensive rookie of the year.

I was really down in the dumps after the game Sunday. I should have waited 48 hours before posting anything. I'm back to being a glass is half-full kind of guy.

Again, I believe Kubes is our man. I don't know who will be here when he wins his first playoff game, but the guys that are on his team and coaching staff better give him all they've got. If they don't, they will be gone.


:rant: :texan: :wherewill
 
Vinny said:
Elway = 3 Super Bowls

Post Elway = 1 Playoff win
Click to expand...

Not to take anything away from Elway, but, um, Denver won 2 Superbowls and Big John didn't get over the hump until some cat named Terrell Davis came along and tore up the league. That said, I acknowledege your point that the Broncos were a hell of a force largely because of Elway: 3 Superbowl appearances before finally winning 2 (under a new coach and with a run-game).

Those post-Elway numbers can be misleading. The post-Elway era is also the post-TD era. Davis never over came injuries that began to consume him during the 1998 season. The Broncos have been trying to replace both TD and Elway since. I'm not surprised of the Broncos struggles given the talent they bled after 1998.
 
nunusguy said:
Obviously Kubiak himself is not going anyplace in the near future, but if Texan fans are completely honest with themselves, you have to admit that Kubiack has already made or contributed to the worst and most damaging decisions in this franchises history. If you don't buy that, then you're deluding yourself.
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So, do we just need to get a new coach every year? Bring back Dom? Try a little patience. He's never head-coached before, he is going to make mistakes. He is head coach, not God. Sheesh!
 
TexansSeminole said:
Why did my thread get merged with this one....while they both are about Kubiak...a bit of a difference dont you think?

Not about being wobbly...its about if you think he is analyzing...I am not asking if people are happy or not with the choice of Kubiak as the coach.

Please put the thread back.
Click to expand...

I had a similar problem the other day with a VY thread I tried to start. Give up. It's like talking to a wall.

I've found in life that once someone makes a public decision it is hard for them to reverse it, even if they know it was a bad one.
 
Bamaborn-Texasbred said:
I had a similar problem the other day with a VY thread I tried to start. Give up. It's like talking to a wall.

I've found in life that once someone makes a public decision it is hard for them to reverse it, even if they know it was a bad one.
Click to expand...

I don't really mind that much...it's just that most people will address the first post and not my post. I just wanted to know if people thought that Kubiak might be analyzing things too much.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't really mind that much...it's just that most people will address the first post and not my post. I just wanted to know if people thought that Kubiak might be analyzing things too much.
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I don't have enough information about how he makes his decisions to comment on that. I can say that this team looks more spirited than Doom Capers' squads, and at times they look a whole lot crisper. I like the way Kubiak adresses the media. I also like the diplomatic way he talks about his staff and players to the media.

I think we got the right guy. Remember, he's learning on the job. I've had some experience with that recently myself. It isn't always easy, and he always looks poised.
 
I can't tell either. While sometimes it seems like he is...he knows alot about football (a thousand times more than me) so I can't tell if its just genius or over analyzing.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I can't tell either. While sometimes it seems like he is...he knows alot about football (a thousand times more than me) so I can't tell if its just genius or over analyzing.
Click to expand...


As you can see, I'm 37 years old. The only organized football I ever played was at the YMCA. My last year of that I was undersized and too slow. I had to give it up. It hurt. It still does.

My passion for the game has never waned. The more I learn about football, the more I realize how much I don't know. Most people have absolutely no idea what that quarterback has going on in his mind as he scans the field walking from the huddle to the center. I can't say I completely do either.

There are only 32 NFL head coaches amongst the thousands and thousands of football coaches across this land. It would stand to reason that if you have landed an NFL head coaching gig, you probably know a thing or two about football.
 
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