Why our offense is really failing.

Everyone blames Carr. I gotta think them people are tripping. Playcalling is horrible. They change things up on a week to week basis. At the Jet's game it felt they didn't know how to run anything but max protect. Then at the Raiders they couldn't leave anyone in to help with protection. Each week it's something different. One week we can't run then we can't pass then we can't run again. C'mon now what kinda coaching is that? When we can't pass it's obviously Carr's fault, but when we can't run who do we blame? Umm, well the RB's are being rotated to we can't lay the blame on 1 RB, it must be the o-line even though they were the same guys that were there when we ran for almost 200 yds. or allowed 0 sacks some games. If ya wanna play the blame game blame the one really responsible. Kubiak.

He goes home and watches a ton of film. Yet, he comes out unprepared for each game and can't adjust. Maybe if he watched the plays instead of having his back turned on them he would know what the hell is going on. Instead after every game he says, well we gotta watch film to see what happened. Watch the damn game and know what happened before Monday. What compounds this problem is he's got 2 other guys calling plays or having a heavy influence on the offense in Calhoun and Sherman.

Okay things that holding back week after week. 1) TE's release. When they release they never bump the DE. Something so small, yet can really make a difference in buying the QB some time and making the Tackles life easier. 2) WR routes. They are always the same. We only go deep to AJ on a go route. I've never seen him run a deep crossing pattern or slant. It's almost an insult to Mould's that they never go deep to him. Every other WR in the league runs different routes into different areas of the field. Ours don't and that really cripples us. I've seen this comment a ton on the MB. Carr goes to unload and pulls it back down. Has anybody even questioned why he does this? Hasn't it ever occured to anybody that our WR's routes are so stagnant the defense has them covered before Carr throws. There is no variety in our Route running and this really hurts because we have talented receiver's but give them no... absolutely no hope of having success by having them run the same routes over and over again. You wonder why the offense looks flatfooted out there. They know they can't be effective they way they're doing things, but our offensive guru's can't or won't change their ways in order to give us a shot at winning. It doesn't matter how good our QB's mechanics are or our route running is or our protection schemes are if we don't change them up once in a while to keep defenses guessing.

bad playcalling, or bad film reviewing?

Both.

I've never really thought about it to that extent but you definitely have a point. It does seem as though the WR routes are pretty basic and repetitive.

It always seems like there's no one going over the middle deep to challenge the safeties and pull them off double teams. And we never seem to line up more than 2 WRs on first down.

I think Kubes could definitely help out David by taking alot of the dump offs out and incorporating more plays designed for Walters and OD. Just be a little more creative in general and take the leash off the playbook for the final four games. Encourage David to make some big plays by calling big plays.

We've only got 4 left so show us what you got Texans!!!!!

GO TEXANS!!!! BEAT TITANS!!!!

dat_boy_yec said:

Both.

Click to expand...

Agreed....

PowerfulDragon said:

bad playcalling, or bad film reviewing?

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Are we speculating that he has a learning disability? Either way, he clearly isn't picking it up. If that's the case, let's move on and find someone else who can keep pace with the demands of the position.

dat_boy_yec said:

Okay things that holding back week after week. 1) TE's release. When they release they never bump the DE. Something so small, yet can really make a difference in buying the QB some time and making the Tackles life easier.

Click to expand...

We have not gone max protect ever this year..... We've not gone a whole game where we kept the TEs in to block every play.... we haven't even kept the tightends back on a majority of the plays..... On most plays, there are at least 4 recievers in the pattern.

dat_boy_yec said:

2) WR routes. They are always the same. We only go deep to AJ on a go route. I've never seen him run a deep crossing pattern or slant. It's almost an insult to Mould's that they never go deep to him. Every other WR in the league runs different routes into different areas of the field. Ours don't and that really cripples us. I've seen this comment a ton on the MB. Carr goes to unload and pulls it back down. Has anybody even questioned why he does this? Hasn't it ever occured to anybody that our WR's routes are so stagnant the defense has them covered before Carr throws.

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If they are covered, he needs to go to his checkdown, or throw it away.... not take the sack. Do not reward the defense for blitzing. With the pressure he was seeing against the Raiders, he should have known that he didn't have time to pull it down. He should've felt the pressure...... but that's a different story all together.

dat_boy_yec said:

There is no variety in our Route running and this really hurts because we have talented receiver's but give them no... absolutely no hope of having success by having them run the same routes over and over again. You wonder why the offense looks flatfooted out there. They know they can't be effective they way they're doing things, but our offensive guru's can't or won't change their ways in order to give us a shot at winning. It doesn't matter how good our QB's mechanics are or our route running is or our protection schemes are if we don't change them up once in a while to keep defenses guessing.

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three offensive systems....... 6 offensive Coordinators(three on the team right now) & we are still running a mickey mouse offense......

Maybe it isn't the guys calling the plays.....

SLO Texan said:

I've never really thought about it to that extent but you definitely have a point. It does seem as though the WR routes are pretty basic and repetitive.

It always seems like there's no one going over the middle deep to challenge the safeties and pull them off double teams. And we never seem to line up more than 2 WRs on first down.

I think Kubes could definitely help out David by taking alot of the dump offs out and incorporating more plays designed for Walters and OD. Just be a little more creative in general and take the leash off the playbook for the final four games. Encourage David to make some big plays by calling big plays.

We've only got 4 left so show us what you got Texans!!!!!

GO TEXANS!!!! BEAT TITANS!!!!

Click to expand...

If you're at the stadium, you'll see Owen in the middle. Just like he was for the Titans game, when he put up 100 yards.

My guess is that David was told to look at the WRs first, which means he'll look at the WRs, then the RB in the flat. So forget about the Tightend in the middle.

If you'll watch the LOS as the ball is snapped, unless it's a blitzing situation on a passing down, we release two tightends.......... where do you think they are going...

why do you think defenses ignore them??

i agree- kubiak's playcalling has been very disappointing so far imo..it looks like we have a 2 page playbook

thunderkyss said:

If you're at the stadium, you'll see Owen in the middle. Just like he was for the Titans game, when he put up 100 yards. I meant more like these last 6 weeks.
My guess is that David was told to look at the WRs first, which means he'll look at the WRs, then the RB in the flat. So forget about the Tightend in the middle. I know and it's time to start incorporating more potential recievers downfield. Give him more options before the check down to the RB.
If you'll watch the LOS as the ball is snapped, unless it's a blitzing situation on a passing down, we release two tightends.......... where do you think they are going...On a 5 yd out route or curl usually.

why do you think defenses ignore them?? B/C David isn't staring at them.

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It just seems to me that David and Kubiak are scared to air it out at all. I completely understand this considering our O-line situation. But I would like to see them let loose these last few weeks and let Carr have the chance to carry his Offense/Team to some wins.

It will do wonders for the teams confidence and us as fans in our QB going into next season.

GO DAVID!!! & GO TEXANS!!!!

If any of you watched a Denver game, you wouldnt be dogging Kubiak.

he knows how to run an offense. If our play calling seems bland, there is a reason for it, and its probably a combination of having a questionable QB, a shoddy oline, and an entire team in thier first year with a new playbook.

Grid said:

If any of you watched a Denver game, you wouldnt be dogging Kubiak.

he knows how to run an offense. If our play calling seems bland, there is a reason for it, and its probably a combination of having a questionable QB, a shoddy oline, and an entire team in thier first year with a new playbook.

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I'm not "dogging" Kubiak, I understand he's done great things in Denver and I understand that there are multiple reasons for our O being flat.

I just want him to be agressive in these last four games and challenge our young team to overcome their obstacles and win. We've played 12 games now to see where everyones at, now make them earn their position on next years team by challenging them!!!!

I want him to run this team like we ARE fighting for the playoffs!!!

The only reason we don't look aggressive, is because David is throwing the underneath route.

he's throwing those behind our recievers, and when he throws deep, it's usually behind as well.

It looks like he doesn't understand how to lead a reciever.Or when to underthrow, or when to throw behind.

& I know what you mean with our tightends...... just because you don't see David throwing over the middle, doesn't mean the tightends aren't there. They are, but recently, the only way you'll get David to throw the ball to a tightend, is if you put him in the backfield as a fullback.

thunderkyss said:

We have not gone max protect ever this year..... We've not gone a whole game where we kept the TEs in to block every play.... we haven't even kept the tightends back on a majority of the plays..... On most plays, there are at least 4 recievers in the pattern.

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Okay, wait, what? How does any of this address what I was talking about. I said that when the TE's release it is always a clean release. There is never a jam on the DE. Our TE's avoid contact with DE's which I'm saying would help us out alot if they didn't. A quick jam as they released would really help out our tackles and thus our protection.

thunderkyss said:

If they are covered, he needs to go to his checkdown, or throw it away.... not take the sack. Do not reward the defense for blitzing. With the pressure he was seeing against the Raiders, he should have known that he didn't have time to pull it down. He should've felt the pressure...... but that's a different story all together.

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Make up your mind. Tired of the dump off passes, but want him to go to the checkdown. If he didn't pull it down he would be more likely to loose it. Don't want him fumbling now do you? Pulling it down. One quick motion. Throwing it away pulling the arm back, forward motion, release. Second option sounds alot more likely to create turn-overs.

thunderkyss said:

three offensive systems....... 6 offensive Coordinators(three on the team right now) & we are still running a mickey mouse offense......

Maybe it isn't the guys calling the plays.....

Click to expand...

Maybe it's that they're not on the same page.

Grid said:

If any of you watched a Denver game, you wouldnt be dogging Kubiak.

he knows how to run an offense. If our play calling seems bland, there is a reason for it, and its probably a combination of having a questionable QB, a shoddy oline, and an entire team in thier first year with a new playbook.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and if anybody still watches the Denver game they'll notice they're still having much success w/out Kubiak. If Kubiak really knew how to run the offense then why is our's struggling so much. An entire team under a new playbook would be a valid argument if you didn't have teams like the Saints, Vikings, or Jets in the same situation. Maybe it's a communication thing where he's still learning how to get things accross to his other offensive coaches and players. However there is something wrong with the coaching and there shouldn't be.

Kubiak ran that offense.. he had people under him.. now those people are running the offense like he ran it.

And actually the denver offense ISNT doing good without him. Pretty dang bad actually.

dat_boy_yec said:

Yeah, and if anybody still watches the Denver game they'll notice they're still having much success w/out Kubiak. If Kubiak really knew how to run the offense then why is our's struggling so much. An entire team under a new playbook would be a valid argument if you didn't have teams like the Saints, Vikings, or Jets in the same situation. Maybe it's a communication thing where he's still learning how to get things accross to his other offensive coaches and players. However there is something wrong with the coaching and there shouldn't be.

Click to expand...

If Denver is having success its because of their defense . PLummer was benched because the offense was stalling .

I agree with TK ... you can't teach trig to someone who can't do division .

Both Carr and the coaches are the reason our offense struggle...

dat_boy_yec said:

Okay, wait, what? How does any of this address what I was talking about. I said that when the TE's release it is always a clean release. There is never a jam on the DE. Our TE's avoid contact with DE's which I'm saying would help us out alot if they didn't. A quick jam as they released would really help out our tackles and thus our protection.

Click to expand...

I didn't want to quote your whole post, just parts........ I responded to some of the things you said earlier about max protect.

Then on the quick release, Kubiak said some Tackles don't like the DEs being chipped by the TE...... xtruroyalty(an offensive lineman) corroborated the idea.

dat_boy_yec said:

Make up your mind. Tired of the dump off passes, but want him to go to the checkdown. If he didn't pull it down he would be more likely to loose it. Don't want him fumbling now do you? Pulling it down. One quick motion. Throwing it away pulling the arm back, forward motion, release. Second option sounds alot more likely to create turn-overs.

Click to expand...

The ball should be in a ready position before he throws..... when he decides to let it fly, the thinkings over..... if he doesn't know what he's looking at before he gets the ball to his ear, it was a mistake to ever start throwing the ball.

At the same time, if something changes at the last second, it's a matter of where he releases the ball that will determine if it goes into the stands(there's a reason why they are all go routes)....... or ahead of the receiver, or behind the receiver.

If the guy is covered, go to the checkdown.... I don't have a problem with him checking down, other than the frequency in which he does it, and I question his definition of covered.

Besides, he's fumbling the ball anyway.

dat_boy_yec said:

Maybe it's that they're not on the same page.

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just our luck, we just happen to pick the worst offensive coordinators every single time...... even when we get three on the same team, they're all wrong.

So TK , in your opinion did Carr have it at one time and it was beaten out of him or he peaked in college because he could'nt think quick enough to be a pro .

Honoring Earl 34 said:

So TK , in your opinion did Carr have it at one time and it was beaten out of him or he peaked in college because he could'nt think quick enough to be a pro .

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I really don't know......

Before this year, I didn't really watch him too much..... I was just disgusted by the offensive line play.

My argument for Vince, was that David was scared, and once you get scared like that, (fetal position, running anywhich way to get out of the pocket, running out of bounds behind the LOS) you're done........ I've never seen anyone comeback from that kind of play before.... David has.

But with all my griping, I was reading some of the other "haters" cARRpinions, and decided to watch David, & time how long he has in the pocket, and compare that to other teams.

Other QBs may have more time in the pocket, but most QBs seem to get rid of the ball within 2.5 seconds.... so while our line isn't great, he generally has 2.5 seconds to throw the ball.......

But also watching David throw the ball this year, I've noticed things that I never noticed, so I don't know if they were always there or not..... Vinny has been mentioning some of these things for a while, so I imagine he never had it.

That, and our offense was much more complicated in 2002 than it is now, kinda has me thinking the game is too fast for him....

I wouldn't have a problem if he was a Houston Texan next year. I'd be upset if he were the starter, and felt like he wasn't the best QB on the team.

Our Oline isn't making holes like they should.... on most plays against the Raiders, Dayne was breaking tackles at the LOS...... he shouldn't be touched for the first five yards on most plays. Once we get that, and teams have to adjust their D to account for our run game, I expect the play action to open up the big plays downfield.

So I still think David's style can win..... I wish he were more accurate, then he wouldn't need a bad ass running game to open up the field..... right now, the D only has to cover the sidelines..... if David could dictate the passing game, we'd see more zones..... and softer coverage.

thunderkyss said:

I didn't want to quote your whole post, just parts........ I responded to some of the things you said earlier about max protect.

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Watch the Jets game then. TE's didn't start getting involved until the second half and then only gradually. However they were held in to help out on many occasions.

thunderkyss said:

Then on the quick release, Kubiak said some Tackles don't like the DEs being chipped by the TE...... xtruroyalty(an offensive lineman) corroborated the idea.

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You think anybody is gonna like admitting that they need help. Umm, I don't think so. I bet none of the tackles like getting burned every time either, but that's something we see done all the time. It shouldn't matter what they like or don't like. It's about what gets the job done.

thunderkyss said:

The ball should be in a ready position before he throws..... when he decides to let it fly, the thinkings over..... if he doesn't know what he's looking at before he gets the ball to his ear, it was a mistake to ever start throwing the ball.

Click to expand...

Three step drop the ball should be out of his hand by the time he set's his feet on the third step. No way can he process everything he's seeing and get the throw off in time without raising the ball on the second step.

thunderkyss said:

At the same time, if something changes at the last second, it's a matter of where he releases the ball that will determine if it goes into the stands(there's a reason why they are all go routes)....... or ahead of the receiver, or behind the receiver.

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You're a moron as a coach if you send your wide out's on go routes for three step drops. A) you take away an option. B) That wouldn't guarantee that the referee would acknowledge that as within the vicinity. C) You are basically setting yourself up for failure.

thunderkyss said:

If the guy is covered, go to the checkdown.... I don't have a problem with him checking down, other than the frequency in which he does it, and I question his definition of covered.

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Easy to do when your not on the field and see how easy it is for potential defenders to jump on routes they are expecting. Also when is the WR ever covered in zone Defense. It's usually an area that the defender has to protect.

thunderkyss said:

Besides, he's fumbling the ball anyway.

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He'd been playing with better ball protection until this last game. One of those fumbles wasn't a fumble the second and third were on occasions where he had to pull the ball down. For some reason or another.

thunderkyss said:

just our luck, we just happen to pick the worst offensive coordinators every single time...... even when we get three on the same team, they're all wrong.

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What is that supposed to mean? Sarcasm? I never said they were wrong. I said they weren't on the same page. Two totally different things.

I have Googled his 2002 scouting reports and some of them say the same things he does now . He holds on to the ball to long , needs to work on making all the throws , and can get rattled .

Its not all on David but you can get a guy doing the same thing by promoting the backup who makes I think 1.5 million .

Man these threads get so old, everybody is an expert. Every armchair comes out and analyzes minute details of what's gone wrong. "It's all on Carr"..."It's all the OLine." Sure we all care and we all want the team to get better. Personally, I'm tired of wasting my money on a bad product. But when one of the most savvy QB coaches in the NFL says David is our QB there has got to be something to it. Although I think he's made some mistakes this year, I think Kubiak has done an excellent job in evaluating talent. Unlike the previous regime I trust that he will make moves, even tough ones, to make this team better. We have 4 games to play, lets hope for some wins and let this dog lie. Nothing is going to happen until the year ends.

Matter-of-fact, if you're one to get emotional about it, I'd suggest avoiding the David Carr threads altogether. This is Double Barrels advice .

Honoring Earl 34 said:

Matter-of-fact, if you're one to get emotional about it, I'd suggest avoiding the David Carr threads altogether. This is Double Barrels advice .

Click to expand...

I'd have to avoid the entire MBs

dat_boy_yec said:

Watch the Jets game then. TE's didn't start getting involved until the second half and then only gradually. However they were held in to help out on many occasions.

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I'll rewatch it, but I don't see why that would happen, when he had not done that against any of our other opponents, who have better pass rushing than the JETs... maybe because they give you so many different looks.

& as far as I know, max protect is the QBs call. Should be anyway.

dat_boy_yec said:

You think anybody is gonna like admitting that they need help. Umm, I don't think so. I bet none of the tackles like getting burned every time either, but that's something we see done all the time. It shouldn't matter what they like or don't like. It's about what gets the job done.

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so let's put your boy in the shotgun..... 5 years, and no ones stuck him in the gun yet.... what does that tell you??

dat_boy_yec said:

Three step drop the ball should be out of his hand by the time he set's his feet on the third step. No way can he process everything he's seeing and get the throw off in time without raising the ball on the second step.

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Everything I said to do was in a three step drop.... can't tell me David doesn't have time to process the info, he's staring at the guy as soon as the ball is snapped.

'sides, against the raiders, it was mostly 5 & 7 step drops. Brooks was dropping back 3 steps, not our guy.

dat_boy_yec said:

You're a moron as a coach if you send your wide out's on go routes for three step drops. A) you take away an option. B) That wouldn't guarantee that the referee would acknowledge that as within the vicinity. C) You are basically setting yourself up for failure.

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I've been called worse...... I'm not talking about three step drops. I bet I can find you two occasions David had 4 almost 5 seconds in the pocket, a clean pocket in the Raider game...... I'll give you two guesses at what he did with the ball, but you won't need the second guess........... If you been watching.

dat_boy_yec said:

Easy to do when your not on the field and see how easy it is for potential defenders to jump on routes they are expecting. Also when is the WR ever covered in zone Defense. It's usually an area that the defender has to protect.

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If I were getting paid $8 million a year, I bet I could make it look easy to do.

All zones have wholes....

dat_boy_yec said:

He'd been playing with better ball protection until this last game. One of those fumbles wasn't a fumble the second and third were on occasions where he had to pull the ball down. For some reason or another.

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I know most "experts" will put the blame on the OLine, if the QB is sacked. I'll blame the QB if he pulled it down........ especially if there was a blitz. the correct call would have been to throw it away. unless he didn't see the blitz..... in which case, it's still his fault.

dat_boy_yec said:

What is that supposed to mean? Sarcasm? I never said they were wrong. I said they weren't on the same page. Two totally different things.

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I believe without a doubt that one of the 4 people involved is not on the same page.. but he wears shoulder pads on Sunday..

Honoring Earl 34 said:

I have Googled his 2002 scouting reports and some of them say the same things he does now . He holds on to the ball to long , needs to work on making all the throws , and can get rattled .

Its not all on David but you can get a guy doing the same thing by promoting the backup who makes I think 1.5 million .

Click to expand...

I agree on both points........

regarding the first though...... I thought we were talking about his ability to process information, which didn't appear to be a problem in his scouting report.

He's been in the shotgun plenty of times before. Just not this year.

thunderkyss said:

I agree on both points........

regarding the first though...... I thought we were talking about his ability to process information, which didn't appear to be a problem in his scouting report.

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So is it being afraid to screw up aka confidence ?

Tayton said:

Man these threads get so old, everybody is an expert. Every armchair comes out and analyzes minute details of what's gone wrong. "It's all on Carr"..."It's all the OLine." Sure we all care and we all want the team to get better. Personally, I'm tired of wasting my money on a bad product. But when one of the most savvy QB coaches in the NFL says David is our QB there has got to be something to it. Although I think he's made some mistakes this year, I think Kubiak has done an excellent job in evaluating talent. Unlike the previous regime I trust that he will make moves, even tough ones, to make this team better. We have 4 games to play, lets hope for some wins and let this dog lie. Nothing is going to happen until the year ends.

Click to expand...

So who are we gonna believe?

Kubiak... or a bunch of expert wannabe coaches.... sitting in front of computer screens hacking away on their keyboards?..

These 'experts' are going to tell Kubiak how to call plays, evaluate players, and coach a football team? Get real.

thunderkyss said:

It looks like he doesn't understand how to lead a reciever.Or when to underthrow, or when to throw behind.

Click to expand...

He seemed to understand how until the last few games. He's probably trying to avoid hitting AJ in the numbers, since he drops every pass that hits him there.

If a NFL QB is missing targets, it is usually because the reciever read a different route thatn he did or because of pressure from the D-Line. In DC's case it seems to be pressure, especially in the Raiders game. they were coming through the line as if no one was blocking.

I doubt David Carr forgot how to lead a reciever.

cuppacoffee said:

So who are we gonna believe?

Kubiak... or a bunch of expert wannabe coaches.... sitting in front of computer screens hacking away on their keyboards?..

These 'experts' are going to tell Kubiak how to call plays, evaluate players, and coach a football team? Get real.

Click to expand...

Me. You should believe me.

So....that being said, I will give you my ultimate, no doubt about it, answer to the question of whether it's Carr's fault or not:

....................................................I don't know.

There ya have it.

dat_boy_yec said:

You think anybody is gonna like admitting that they need help. Umm, I don't think so. I bet none of the tackles like getting burned every time either, but that's something we see done all the time. It shouldn't matter what they like or don't like. It's about what gets the job done.

Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with pride....

It has everything to do with timing....Sometimes when a TE chips the DE, he throws the tackle off, because there is no gaurantee that the TE is going to get a good piece of the DE...Personally I didn't even like a TE on my side when I pass blocked....I would rather the TE just take an inside release creating a sort of speed bump, if there was ever a defensive end anywhere that I felt like I couldn't block......

But trust me....It has nothing to do with being ashamed of needing help....

dantem said:

If a NFL QB is missing targets, it is usually because the reciever read a different route thatn he did or because of pressure from the D-Line.

Click to expand...

Once again.....It's on everyone except the person who's throwing the freaking ball....

Again I ask....

Is David Carr a pawn ?

Tayton said:

Man these threads get so old, everybody is an expert. Every armchair comes out and analyzes minute details of what's gone wrong. "It's all on Carr"..."It's all the OLine." Sure we all care and we all want the team to get better. Personally, I'm tired of wasting my money on a bad product. But when one of the most savvy QB coaches in the NFL says David is our QB there has got to be something to it. Although I think he's made some mistakes this year, I think Kubiak has done an excellent job in evaluating talent. Unlike the previous regime I trust that he will make moves, even tough ones, to make this team better. We have 4 games to play, lets hope for some wins and let this dog lie. Nothing is going to happen until the year ends.

Click to expand...

I agreed with you, but would add that it's a TEAM game and one QB does not make up a whole TEAM. With that said let's take a look at the TEAM: QB: enough has been said, WR: they get no seperation, to many drops and to many taken away after catch(AJ has 3), OL: pass blocking F, run blocking C, TE good when thrown to, RB: do we have any RB's on this team?, Coaching; it could be better.Defense is starting to come together, but could be so much better

Honoring Earl 34 said:

So is it being afraid to screw up aka confidence ?

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I don't know.. Like I said, I never studied his game, to see if he ever had it..... I don't know if it's something he's lost, or failed to aquire.

cuppacoffee said:

So who are we gonna believe?

Kubiak... or a bunch of expert wannabe coaches.... sitting in front of computer screens hacking away on their keyboards?..

These 'experts' are going to tell Kubiak how to call plays, evaluate players, and coach a football team? Get real.

Click to expand...

Like everyone else, I used to blame the OL, so I didn't care to look at where David has been placing the ball, or what kind of coverage we were facing, or even how long he had to throw the ball....... I just blamed the OL.

Right now, I just don't care..... I see problems that need to be fixed....

I'm not one of the guys who have been asking that David gets replaced in the near(or distant future)......

I was hoping when Kubiak said David was broke, and needed to be fixed, all the 's would say, "David is broke, and needs to be fixed." but what do we get??

"David is playing better this year".... that's bull. He hasn't had one good game.. Take away the games with fumbles, and INTs, and you won't find one good game........ yeah, he had a high QB rating....... yeah he had a high completion rating.... blah, blah, blah..... but against the good QBs, David's numbers overall don't match up......

After 12 games, he avg's less than 200 ypg.... less than a TD/game.... less than 10 yards per completion.. he stares down his recievers, he doesn't go through his progressions, & we still don't run a 2 minute drill.

He's only thrown for 300 yards in one game, and he had to throw the ball 54 times to do it....

how in the heck can someone say he's got it..

I understand it's going to take more than 13 weeks to fix him.... more than one season.... I'm fine with that. But stop telling me he's playing well.

I was watching the Raiders when they played SanDiego, after seeing the pressure they got with their front 4, and AaronBrooks' ability to perform undert he pressure SD put on him....... I figured we'd get killed..........

But a -5 passing yards, and 3 fumbles on the first play of three consecutive possessions........ sheesh....

At this point, I must assume that "IT" is "the Force". :bananasplit:

I also believe that Darth Vader is coming to town and we have many traitors in our rebellion.

Reality is boring.

TK if Atlanta called you up ( your GM ) and said Mike Vick needs to change scenories and ask if would you trade Carr head up for Vick ? Would you trade ?

Honoring Earl 34 said:

TK if Atlanta called you up ( your GM ) and said Mike Vick needs to change scenories and ask if would you trade Carr head up for Vick ? Would you trade ?

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I'm not a Vick fan..... so I'd say no....

But if I were the Texans head coach, Sage would have been starting since the Dallas Game.

But as I understand McNair, Smith, & Kubiak look at David as the future of the franchise, I don't see us drafting a QB in '07. I believe Kubiak is disappointed in David, but not enough to give up on him.

At the very least ... Carr gets demoted going into next year . I would give Sage a shot to start and look to deal Carr .

Yeah well for all of your wisdom guys, I'd just be glad to see a first round prospect at OLT...some year. Any year. Be a nice change from all of this analisys. Wtih four games to go the sacks are under fifty. I guess that is an upgrade. I wonder what the line is in Vegas with four to go ? Just seems like they've done it every way but the correct way. And after four years of this belly aching, I too hope you get your wish and Sage is starting next season. Mind Bogglleing, yeah he's got 2.5 secs, he ought to see the TE in the seam .
We ought to hit the fly down the feild. Jesssus.

Whats it gonna hurt besides hurting someones feelings ? Will we go 2-14 ... been there done that .

Grid said:

If any of you watched a Denver game, you wouldnt be dogging Kubiak.

he knows how to run an offense. If our play calling seems bland, there is a reason for it, and its probably a combination of having a questionable QB, a shoddy oline, and an entire team in thier first year with a new playbook.

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Exactly.

threetoedpete said:

Yeah well for all of your wisdom guys, I'd just be glad to see a first round prospect at OLT...some year. Any year. Be a nice change from all of this analisys. Wtih four games to go the sacks are under fifty. I guess that is an upgrade. I wonder what the line is in Vegas with four to go ? Just seems like they've done it every way but the correct way. And after four years of this belly aching, I too hope you get your wish and Sage is starting next season. Mind Bogglleing, yeah he's got 2.5 secs, he ought to see the TE in the seam .
We ought to hit the fly down the feild. Jesssus.

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Are you happy with the production of our running backs?? Do you think we are set at running back with RonDayne, WaliLundy, & SamkonGado?? were you satisfied with our 30 yard rushing game against Dallas?? against NYG?? against NYJ?? Against Miami??

Or do you have the ability to isolate that bad play of the running back from that of the offensive line??

It's the same thing. We all understand that we need work on our offensive line.... that's a given, no one will disagree.

But our QB is playing poorly. Bottom line.

Do we need to replace him?? I can understand an argument either way. But to ignore all the things we see every week is insane. To not expect more from a QB, a #1 overall is just stupid.

To think the QB has no responsibility whatsoever in preventing sacks, is just ignorant.

1. offensive line
2. Penalties
3. Poor decision making (QB)
4. dropped passes
5. blown coverages
6. spotty defensive pressure
7. poor running game
8. long list of notable injuries

did i leave anything out?:brickwall

TK, whose call is it to put the QB in the gun? If I remember correctly it's the coaches call. He's the one that tells the QB to take reps there and is responsible for making sure he's prepared. If Carr isn't put in the shotgun who's fault is it?

Here's another question who's responsible for getting open? If the receiver or his routes are covered does the QB still throw the ball and risk the Int. or does he throw it away. If it's a three step drop and he throws it away and there's no receiver in the vicinity it's still grounding. If the WR's aren't getting open who's fault is that? How can you expect the receiver's to get open if they constantly run the same routes?

By the same logic you're using AJ doesn't deserve all the jack he's making either, because he never get's separation or gets open. Look I can concede Carr has his flaw's, but you gotta see he's not the only factor in our struggles. He had time at the Raiders game, but what about the receiver's they were going against one of the top secondary's and couldn't get open.

xtruroyaltyx said:

It has nothing to do with pride....

It has everything to do with timing....Sometimes when a TE chips the DE, he throws the tackle off, because there is no gaurantee that the TE is going to get a good piece of the DE...Personally I didn't even like a TE on my side when I pass blocked....I would rather the TE just take an inside release creating a sort of speed bump, if there was ever a defensive end anywhere that I felt like I couldn't block......

But trust me....It has nothing to do with being ashamed of needing help....

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You're not the only one that played O-line on here. I just don't bring that up. However since you mention it like that, I gotta disagree. You don't attack in pass blocking you drop back and react to the DE. The TE bumping give's me that much more of an edge to set myself and see the DE's intention. If he get's bumped across the line of scrimmage it's much easier for the tackle to attack and have the upper hand against the DE. If the TE takes the speed bump route it gives the DE space between the OT and him allowing him to work in space giving them better opportunities to set up double moves or whatever they wanna do. Timing is important, but the ability to react and place yourself in a position of advantage is equally tantamount and if your relying on timing so much it means that your guessing what route the DE will take and that he will try the same technique.