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AARRRGGGH!!! Peyton Manning couldnt play behind our O-Line/playcalling

Jeffery

Practice Squad
:brickwall
Ok, I had to reset my password and get re-signed back up because all of this simplemindedness is KILLING ME!

Only the simple minded or intellectually challenged need a single focal point for a failure or lack of performance. In almost EVERY SINGLE case, in EVERY environment, it is a COMBINATION of causes that lead to a perceived or real failure to achieve said objectives.

I will start by saying I am not a Carr fan, and that I don't think he is the answer. That way the short-sighted of you will actually READ the following, instead of forming an opinion of what I am going to say immediately and jumping straight to the bottom.

With that said, there isn't a QB in the game that could play behind our O-Line and offensive play calling right now except for maybe Vick... and maybe VY. (not proposing the VY debate at all). The reason I say that is because our O-line is basically a set of turnstiles for the defense on their way to the QB, and there is rarely ever an 'outlet" in the play for when the QB is under pressure. The only QB that could succeed in this offense is one that doubles as a running back like Vick and VY, providing the O-Line could provide him at least one lousy block to get him back to LOS.

Have any of you people even watched the games?? When you have trouble getting into a three step drop before the defense is on you, it is NOT solely on the shoulders of the QB. The O-line has failed to protect, the play calling has failed to provide a quick outlet for the QB to throw to, and there is no threat of a run or the defense would not be rushing the passer every single play.

Look at how long it took them in the Raiders game to control Dayne. Do you really think that it was big Ron Dayne that had a great game?? He did pretty good, and showed a lot of effort but it took that long for the defense to get out of the rush the passer mentality. They still had Carr's blood scent in their nostrils and forgot out to look for a RB. Dayne is a CAREER backup who has failed to catch on at any team in how many years??? They make him look like the second coming of the bus in his first game back. Good for him, but it says more about focus of the defense than it does about his performance.

Rosenfels - Ok this one is a fun one. This guy has never succeeded ANYWHERE. Who was he backing up again in Miami?? I dont even need to say it. He has a couple games (pre-season) and you guys think he is Joe Montana. You are so eager to find something simple to blame the team's performance on. It is quite easy to blame Carr isn't it?? Quite convenient. So convenient it doesnt even require thought, or brains. Sage isn't a bad QB, but he is NOT a star. Any of you who actually saw the Titans game that you have based your opinion of him as the savior of our offense, would have noticed that the Titans let up a LOT in their defense. They thought he was gonna be running the ball, so weren't prepared for it when he passed. Look at the formations they were in.

Back to the QB situation. What do you do to beat the Colts?? You pressure Manning. Simple, clean cut. You get pressure on him, he crumbles. That is why he has difficulty in the playoffs. He doesn't play well under pressure. Neither did Moon, or Marino. Heck the poster child QB from last year doesn't play well with defenders in his face, see his performance this year? (Roethlesburger). Not every QB can have the presence of a Joe Montana or Elway. Not every QB can run like a Vick or McNabb to elude pressure. You stick pretty much any QB in our offense right now and you would think they "suck". I don't care if Manning was in there, you guys would be calling for his head and blaming whoever it was that brought him here, calling them loser, etc.

When the QB cannot get into a three step drop before the defense is on him, its not his fault. When Fred Weary (#70) is getting run over like a train hit him and literally flying backwards, its not the QB's fault. When Winston cant even find his man as he is running around him to the QB, its not the QB's fault. When the QB has the pocket collapse on him in under 3 seconds, and it collapses around him with no option for lateral movement, its not his fault. When the pocket collapses on him in 3-4 seconds and NOBODY picks it up and comes back for the dump and there is no option in the play calling for an outlet, its not the QB's fault. That QB Carr got rattled early, but nobody could have played in that offense as a QB that day. Not without a RB or some protection. He made errors just like the rest of the team. The rest of the team should share blame though in that -5 passing yards, along with him. Or is just too easy for your intellects to blame one person than realize we have a bigger problem???

Carr does cause some of the sacks by holding onto the ball. He causes some of the batted passes and int's by staring down receivers. He doesn't inspire the O-line to protect him that well. But please oh please cease this boundless, groundless banter that HE is "THE" problem with our team, and our offense. That is just plain asinine. Absolutely ridiculous.

Let me ask you another question. When an offense makes a fumble, because the defense forced it....was it a poor offense or great defense that caused the fumble?? If you are a newspaper editor or a MB junkie, its the offense that screwed up and they are horrible. Thats easier and more glamorous. Actually, to players its the defense that forced it, and they should get credit as a good play. The Raiders didnt drop any balls while they were running down the field. The Texans FORCED the fumbles by their tackling and going after the ball.

Oh please oh please, dont you dare bring up Romo. Dallas and Houston are different animals. Dallas HAS an offensive line. Romo can go into a 5 step drop if he wants to. When the pocket collapses its not like the Houston pocket collapse where it implodes, he still can run out of it laterally. He still has movement. Dallas was a 9-7 team last year with a crappy QB? And before that they were still pretty good with that guy now playing in the Canadian league. They had a team before Romo, he is just surfing the wave that was already there and pulling off some better tricks. We don't have a wave to surf yet here in Houston, thanks to the past blunders in FA and the draft.

This must be our American way. Like our political system. Republican OR Democrat, right or wrong, black or white. What about the rest of the ideas, graduation of blame, and other colors?? I REFUSE to believe that everyone in America thinks in a "template" that agrees with everything either the Republicans think or the Democrats think. The two party system is a ludicrous as the idea that in every argument one person is right and the other is wrong. It's just too ingrained and corrupt to be changed.

Kinda like your football ideas eh?

Can you tell all these posts irritated me???...just a bit? :)
 
LMBO we will never know if that is true or not. I however say yes because he will bring a presence to the field that will cause our players to play harder and do their job right. Besides every poster has zero credibilaty because this is just a message board. They know he is capable of doing things and know that he can get them wins.

LOL Having the Manning in the house, would NOT turn the guys on our line into capable linemen. You get a small increase in performance with motivation and confidence, but maybe that would be enough to consistently get a 3 step drop in. You can have all the drive and motivation in the world, but without the talent it won't work. And that O-Line, especially with 3 starters out, doesnt have the talent. They were much better at the beginning of the year, but still not good.

You would still need a running threat and some pass calling to slow them down (other than the screen and reverse).

What he would bring is someone else who can call the plays. He may actually call a play that leaves him an outlet before he is smashed in that meat grinder we call an offensive line. Once he has passed to that outlet enough times, maybe the defense will back off the pass rush a bit enough to where he can get other passes in. Which brings us to the other problem. Maybe Carr can't call plays like Manning, but the coaches sure can. When it takes them 3 quarters to adjust, if ever, that is a problem. Not THE problem, but "a" problem. Remember there is more than one problem, there is more than right or wrong, and wow there are folks out there who agree with some of what the Democrats stand for and for some of what the Republicans stand for.

Oh crap, I just forgot. Manning cannot play with pressure. When he gets folks in his face, or running him down from behind, his play is horrible. He goes from QB wizard to playing like a backup and making mistakes......almost (but not as bad as) our QB.

Wonder what Carr could do in Indianapolis? With an O-Line, a running game, and a playbook, and audibles?
 
yeah tell that too vince and the titans. They had the same bad offense as ours and look how they panned out. Carr homers always give the same excuse.

Lol, I have never heard this "Carr homer" thing until I started reading the boards again recently. It smacks of the petulant name calling we did in grade school, like mama's boy, or butt kisser. Or in older times, you Communist, you Jew, etc....

So I add the "Carr homer and Carr basher" to the list along with "Republican and Democrat", "right and wrong", and "black and white". So a "Carr homer" is someone who dares point out that there is more problems than Carr on the team. And a "Carr Basher" is the one who thinks that Carr is the sole reason for the offensive struggles, the inability to win games, the direction of the franchise, the state of football today, the price of gas, FEMA, pollution, political corruption, lobbyists, global warming, and that darn headache you woke up with today. Its all his fault isn't it. Did I leave anything out? Is there any room at all for someone who things you have to fix the team first, before you worry about bringing in another QB to trash? ...that maybe the O-line, playcalling, no run game, coaching, AND the QB are at fault?

Tennessee had a running game, and had play calling. We have neither. They had some difficulties in the run game, because they had no ability or threat to pass, so defenses keyed on the run.

There is no "one player" fix to any team. Not even a QB.

You want to know how to fix this?? You spend whatever you need to spend to get some quality OL in here from FA. They are the anchors of the team, not the QB. You find a way to pay them whatever is required and you draft some more OL in the draft. Once you have an OL in place that can protect the QB for enough time to get into a 5 step drop and go through 2-3 of his reads, THEN and ONLY THEN do you get a new QB. OL first, QB second.

In the meantime, you start working on short routes with outlets, not just slants where Carr is still in the middle of the pocket. They paid a lot of lip service to his ability to roll out, and he can do it. Lets see it. Lets see him head on a bootleg immediately instead of going to the pocket before fleeing for his life. He ran the shotgun in a game a couple years ago, and did just fine. Lets see how he does in the shotgun. He can't read the offense very well anyway, so the amount of concentration it takes to catch that ball wont effect him much. Plus, I think he played shotgun at Fresno.
 
What kills me about Carr is on the few chances he has to make a play, he doesn't. He looks downfield and is about to throw and pulls it down. Make a play dude.
Frustrating.
 
I totally agree with you. That is why you should never draft a QB at #1 in the salary cap era. However, we made it worse by extending Carr given the state of our line and, in my opinion, the glass eyes and happy feet from the sacks the first year.
 
Manning could definitely play behind our line.

For goodness sake, look at Matt Leinart. He is a rookie and plays behind a worse O line than Houston's and is playing much better than Carr. Hell, he is already a better QB than Carr is and Carr has been in the league for however many years.
 
Manning could definitely play behind our line.

For goodness sake, look at Matt Leinart. He is a rookie and plays behind a worse O line than Houston's and is playing much better than Carr. Hell, he is already a better QB than Carr is and Carr has been in the league for however many years.

You may have been right about the O-Line at the beginning of the year. However, Leinert does have some time to throw behind that O-Line, more so than what Houston has had the past 6 games or so. I have only seen 2 of his games, and he looks good. But, he also has time to throw. There has been no worse O-Line in the game than Houston's in the past couple games. The playcalling has been unoriginal as well. The Cardinals at least had a couple of neat plays that gave Leinert a chance.
 

Haha, typical response from someone who lacks either maturity or the ability to think past "me hungry", "me like".

I know, it is tough for you to to comprehend that there is more than one player on this team that is part of the problem.

Again, fix the O-Line first. Then get a QB.
 
Manning can get the ball out of his hand with after 1-2 seconds after the snap. Just watch him sometime when the blitz comes. He reads it quickly and the ball is gone. That is why he is not sacked often. He has a superior line but that doesn't matter. If he was behind this line, he would be fine becasue he IS AN NFL QB.

Carr isn't. He has proven he isn't.

I have watched the Colts for many years, as I lived in the area for work when I was in the military.

He can get the ball out of his hands quickly, because he adjusts to what the defense presents to him via audibles. He also has short targets and his receivers are better at coming back when they recognize the blitz. Our guys just run out their pattern most of the time.

He is NOT a good QB when he has defenders close to him or in his face. If you can pressure Manning he crumbles. If he can get rid of the ball before you pressure him, he is still the QB wizard. HOWEVER, in our line he would be pressured before that happened. He would have to play with guys in his face as our QB does, and he would not play well. The Texans "fans' would boo him and think he sucks, because they need someone to hate.

Hateful little tards so many are.
 
I totally agree with you. That is why you should never draft a QB at #1 in the salary cap era. However, we made it worse by extending Carr given the state of our line and, in my opinion, the glass eyes and happy feet from the sacks the first year.

I think we did the right thing in extending him. I think we screwed up by not bringing more talent in for the O-Line and for not planning playcalling around 1-2 second deliveries.

We can worry about bringing in a QB when we have an O-line that can protect, and playcalling that offers more ways than the slant to quickly get rid of the ball.
 
I totally agree with you. That is why you should never draft a QB at #1 in the salary cap era. However, we made it worse by extending Carr given the state of our line and, in my opinion, the glass eyes and happy feet from the sacks the first year.
Yeah, the Colts were fools to take Manning first overall.

on the thread in general...

Upgrade the talent at QB and you have a....more talented QB! Manning helps his line out by not putting them in bad positions constantly. He is a part of why that offense runs well. Manning came to a rotten Colts team too...but it didn't stay rotten forever like ours. If it doesn't matter what the talent is at QB you should just pay some guy 1mil a year to manage games...but it matters who is standing behind center. If it didn't teams wouldn't be drafting guys like Cutler to replace guys like Plummer.
 
I think we did the right thing in extending him. I think we screwed up by not bringing more talent in for the O-Line and for not planning playcalling around 1-2 second deliveries.

We can worry about bringing in a QB when we have an O-line that can protect, and playcalling that offers more ways than the slant to quickly get rid of the ball.

You really didn't have to start a new thread for this.....

But....

Our QB is pathetic and I don't think we can properly evaluate our O-line until we bring in a QB that knows how to play the position...
 
Yeah, the Colts were fools to take Manning first overall.

on the thread in general...

Upgrade the talent at QB and you have a....more talented QB! Manning helps his line out by not putting them in bad positions constantly. He is a part of why that offense runs well. Manning came to a rotten Colts team too...but it didn't stay rotten forever like ours. If it doesn't matter what the talent is at QB you should just pay some guy 1mil a year to manage games...but it matters who is standing behind center. If it didn't teams wouldn't be drafting guys like Cutler to replace guys like Plummer.

B-I-N-G-O.....and bingo was his name-o
 

LOL, ok well I have only seen 2 full games from the Cardinals, and a couple other Cardinal games flipping through while watching other games.

BUT, I go on record as disagreeing that the Cardinals O-line is worse than the Texans. I think the Texans is the worst in league right now. The Raiders game was a complete embarrassment. I don't know how they left their homes the next day without a bag over their heads. (That DOES include Carr with the O-Line)

I will be sure to watch the Cardinals game this week with my stopwatch and get back with you. :)
 
Yeah, the Colts were fools to take Manning first overall.

on the thread in general...

Upgrade the talent at QB and you have a....more talented QB! Manning helps his line out by not putting them in bad positions constantly. He is a part of why that offense runs well. Manning came to a rotten Colts team too...but it didn't stay rotten forever like ours. If it doesn't matter what the talent is at QB you should just pay some guy 1mil a year to manage games...but it matters who is standing behind center. If it didn't teams wouldn't be drafting guys like Cutler to replace guys like Plummer.

It most definitely does matter who plays QB. However, unless you have some semblence of protection from the O-Line, Playcalling, threat of the running game, and receivers who come back when they know you are in trouble, a better QB will not be much more successful. You also risk getting him hurt or shell shocked if you cannot protect him.

Manning puts them in better positions in most of the games yes. Even when he started in Indy, he had better protection than we have now here. But he puts them in better position by getting rid of the ball quickly via recievers that know when to come back for the ball, audibles/better play calling, and an O-Line that does give him the time to get rid of the ball.

Carr can def do a much better job of quickly getting rid of the ball. Sometimes he does have an outlet that he doesnt see. I was only pointing out that often, there is NO play to get rid of the ball quickly, his receivers didnt come back to help him out, and that often he cant even get into the 3 step drop.
 
Have you even watched the Cardinals game, or only watched the highlights on the pre-game shows?


Jeffrey, thanks for trying. And you are right. This situation parrallels the republican/democrat situation and obviously on a much more ridiculous level, but you will never find a middle ground here, and you will never change the minds of the haters. To look at it rationally as your first post does is out of the question for that group. They are tired of losing and Carr is the easiest to Blame.

Carr actually had a reprieve in the first half of the season from the haters on this board because he was holding his own, a few of them, even though they won't admit it now, saw light with him. Then all of our starters became injured, we lost half the o-line, and now here we are, it is once again Carr's fault.

Too bad the defense hadn't been playing the way they are now in the first half of the year, it could have been great.

I am a Carr homer, and still am, but you have to begin to wonder. More than that, if I was Carr, I think I would want to be done here, even though he finally has a coach he respects that has helped him greatly to undo the past, not totally, as seen last week, but a lot. It WAS working. Now they are attacking his family. Sad.....

You are wasting your breath though, they will never hear you. I love the effort though.
 
Jeffrey, thanks for trying. And you are right. This situation parrallels the republican/democrat situation and obviously on a much more ridiculous level, but you will never find a middle ground here, and you will never change the minds of the haters. To look at it rationally as your first post does is out of the question for that group. They are tired of losing and Carr is the easiest to Blame.

Carr actually had a reprieve in the first half of the season from the haters on this board because he was holding his own, a few of them, even though they won't admit it now, saw light with him. Then all of our starters became injured, we lost half the o-line, and now here we are, it is once again Carr's fault.

Too bad the defense hadn't been playing the way they are now in the first half of the year, it could have been great.

I am a Carr homer, and still am, but you have to begin to wonder. More than that, if I was Carr, I think I would want to be done here, even though he finally has a coach he respects that has helped him greatly to undo the past, not totally, as seen last week, but a lot. It WAS working. Now they are attacking his family. Sad.....

You are wasting your breath though, they will never hear you. I love the effort though.


LOL, thanks. I def agree that Carr prob wants out of here pretty bad. I think any QB that has a chance in heck to start, would want out of here. The only QB that would "want" to play here is one who can't start somewhere else.
 
on the thread in general...

Upgrade the talent at QB and you have a....more talented QB!

Exactly. Why folks fight this is mind boggling and it has nothing to do with Carr or any specific player. Put in a better QB you improve the team. Put in a better RB you improve the team. Put in better CBs you improve the team. It is a simple equation. Maybe they don't improve the team to play the same as their old team (Edge isn't going to make Arizona into Indy and Manning wouldn't make the Texans the Colts) but they will improve the team.
 
Oakland has the worst Oline in the league, they can't run or pass. We've been able to do both inconsistently

It has gotten worse with all the injuries though.
 
To compare the average time from snap to release/sack or pressure that causes QB to run between the teams (on pass plays).

They won't listen to that becasue they say Carr sacks himself. I don't see that, but he does seem like a magnet for pass rushers. Maybe it's electrical fields or something. :rolleyes:
 
unless you have some semblence of protection from the O-Line, Playcalling, threat of the running game, and receivers who come back when they know you are in trouble, a better QB will not be much more successful.

Team...........Rush............Avg.

Bengals.......316...............3.7
Texans........311...............3.8


Team..........Sacks allowed
Bengals.............30
Texans..............36


Andre, and Eric.....

T.J, and Chad.....


Looking at our backs collectively we have about the same amount of rushing yards this season....O-line has allowed 6 more sacks....Not exactly the same, but not too far off.....Looks like the biggest difference is the QB play....
 
Exactly. Why folks fight this is mind boggling and it has nothing to do with Carr or any specific player. Put in a better QB you improve the team. Put in a better RB you improve the team. Put in better CBs you improve the team. It is a simple equation. Maybe they don't improve the team to play the same as their old team (Edge isn't going to make Arizona into Indy and Manning wouldn't make the Texans the Colts) but they will improve the team.

Obviously. However, you don't hear the simpletons on the board complaining about anything BUT Carr. He is the whole reason for everything isn't he? Replace him and we make the playoffs right? umm no.

Replacing Carr with a better QB without changing the rest of the team is like putting a $3k stereo aond some spinners on a Pinto. You kinda need a better vehicle first.

QUOTE:
So I add the "Carr homer and Carr basher" to the list along with "Republican and Democrat", "right and wrong", and "black and white". So a "Carr homer" is someone who dares point out that there is more problems than Carr on the team. And a "Carr Basher" is the one who thinks that Carr is the sole reason for the offensive struggles, the inability to win games, the direction of the franchise, the state of football today, the price of gas, FEMA, pollution, political corruption, lobbyists, global warming, and that darn headache you woke up with today. Its all his fault isn't it?

It's just easier to grasp that way isn't it?
 
Better yet, you could watch the Colts and Manning. It won't prove much, I suppose, but it'll be like a whole new game.

1 mississippi, 2 mississippi, 3 mississippi, 4 mississippi, 5 mississippi, 6 mississippi....11 mississippi....GEEZ, THROW THE BALL!!! 20 mississippi, good throw! Touchdown!


Wow! How did he do it?
 
Team...........Rush............Avg.

Bengals.......316...............3.7
Texans........311...............3.8


Team..........Sacks allowed
Bengals.............30
Texans..............36


Andre, and Eric.....

T.J, and Chad.....


Looking at our backs collectively we have about the same amount of rushing yards this season....O-line has allowed 6 more sacks....Not exactly the same, but not too far off.....Looks like the biggest difference is the QB play....

This doesn't tell the whole story though either. TJ and Chad are very aggressive and good at getting open. They fight for balls. AJ lets 5'8" CB's go over the top of him to bat down the balls. He doesnt have the aggression, and has too many drops.

How long did the O-Line give the QB's before they gave up those sacks? Its a combo of O-Line protection vs. QB getting rid of the ball. I bet Cinci can consistently get into a three step drop and go through 2-3 reads.

Also, don't forget when comparing season stats, that the O-Line we have now is not the same as the one we had at the beginning of the year. Can we look at those stats the past 6 games?
 
another problem is Carr/the playcalling, doesn't move people off the line. When teams watch game film and they see nothing but 1-5 yard passes, the defense is not being stretched out. The defense is allowed to sit right at the line with no fear of being burned deep and who really cares if they are, we only throw deep once, twice at the most a game.

We need to show teams we can go deep. I think we need to go to the shotgun more and give the defense something to think about..
 
This doesn't tell the whole story though either. TJ and Chad are very aggressive and good at getting open. They fight for balls. AJ lets 5'8" CB's go over the top of him to bat down the balls. He doesnt have the aggression, and has too many drops.

The other half is neither one of them is getting open. Chad, on the other hand, leaves a thick trail of dust in the CBs face.
 
Obviously. However, you don't hear the simpletons on the board complaining about anything BUT Carr. He is the whole reason for everything isn't he? Replace him and we make the playoffs right? umm no.

The QB is the most important position on the offense, if not the team...The cowboys had lost three in a row, and their hopes were looking bleak for the season, and with one change at the QB they're thinking Superbowl.....Same thing in Tennesee...Collins at the helm, and they were looking to be the worst team in the AFC South....Change the QB and wah-lah....now they have beat some good teams, and are starting to come come around....Bad QB play will hurt you no matter what kind of team you have.
 
This doesn't tell the whole story though either. TJ and Chad are very aggressive and good at getting open. They fight for balls. AJ lets 5'8" CB's go over the top of him to bat down the balls. He doesnt have the aggression, and has too many drops.

How long did the O-Line give the QB's before they gave up those sacks? Its a combo of O-Line protection vs. QB getting rid of the ball. I bet Cinci can consistently get into a three step drop and go through 2-3 reads.

Also, don't forget when comparing season stats, that the O-Line we have now is not the same as the one we had at the beginning of the year. Can we look at those stats the past 6 games?


Sure we can look at the last six games....But the fact that we're playing with 3 second stringers and one guy who didn't even suit up originally, That kinda only makes our line look better....
 
Obviously. However, you don't hear the simpletons on the board complaining about anything BUT Carr. He is the whole reason for everything isn't he? Replace him and we make the playoffs right? umm no.

Replacing Carr with a better QB without changing the rest of the team is like putting a $3k stereo aond some spinners on a Pinto. You kinda need a better vehicle first.

Yes it is oversimplifying to say Carr is the only problem with the team--no doubt. OTOH, odds are Manning or Brady or Palmer would have 2-3 more wins with this same team and odds are the losses don't look as bad either. That's wild card hunt or one back at this point. I'd enjoy watching that team more, wouldn't you? There are multiple positions on this team which need upgrade but is there another one you can say with certainty a single upgrade would likely result in more wins?--RB probably but other than that it is a maybe, not a likely.
 
Sure we can look at the last six games....But the fact that we're playing with 3 second stringers and one guy who didn't even suit up originally, That kinda only makes our line look better....

I don't see where that makes our line look better. It makes the play understandable but it doesn't make it any better--it is what it is which is inconsistent as run blockers and well below average as pass blockers.
 
I don't see where that makes our line look better. It makes the play understandable but it doesn't make it any better--it is what it is which is inconsistent as run blockers and well below average as pass blockers.

You're right....it doesn't make them look better....they are what they are....

I meant that it makes you think that if we had all our starters or most of them, then our O-line wouldn't be considered as bad...
 
:brickwall
Ok, I had to reset my password and get re-signed back up because all of this simplemindedness is KILLING ME!

Only the simple minded or intellectually challenged need a single focal point for a failure or lack of performance. In almost EVERY SINGLE case, in EVERY environment, it is a COMBINATION of causes that lead to a perceived or real failure to achieve said objectives.

I will start by saying I am not a Carr fan, and that I don't think he is the answer. That way the short-sighted of you will actually READ the following, instead of forming an opinion of what I am going to say immediately and jumping straight to the bottom.

With that said, there isn't a QB in the game that could play behind our O-Line and offensive play calling right now except for maybe Vick... and maybe VY. (not proposing the VY debate at all). The reason I say that is because our O-line is basically a set of turnstiles for the defense on their way to the QB, and there is rarely ever an 'outlet" in the play for when the QB is under pressure. The only QB that could succeed in this offense is one that doubles as a running back like Vick and VY, providing the O-Line could provide him at least one lousy block to get him back to LOS.

Have any of you people even watched the games?? When you have trouble getting into a three step drop before the defense is on you, it is NOT solely on the shoulders of the QB. The O-line has failed to protect, the play calling has failed to provide a quick outlet for the QB to throw to, and there is no threat of a run or the defense would not be rushing the passer every single play.

Look at how long it took them in the Raiders game to control Dayne. Do you really think that it was big Ron Dayne that had a great game?? He did pretty good, and showed a lot of effort but it took that long for the defense to get out of the rush the passer mentality. They still had Carr's blood scent in their nostrils and forgot out to look for a RB. Dayne is a CAREER backup who has failed to catch on at any team in how many years??? They make him look like the second coming of the bus in his first game back. Good for him, but it says more about focus of the defense than it does about his performance.

Rosenfels - Ok this one is a fun one. This guy has never succeeded ANYWHERE. Who was he backing up again in Miami?? I dont even need to say it. He has a couple games (pre-season) and you guys think he is Joe Montana. You are so eager to find something simple to blame the team's performance on. It is quite easy to blame Carr isn't it?? Quite convenient. So convenient it doesnt even require thought, or brains. Sage isn't a bad QB, but he is NOT a star. Any of you who actually saw the Titans game that you have based your opinion of him as the savior of our offense, would have noticed that the Titans let up a LOT in their defense. They thought he was gonna be running the ball, so weren't prepared for it when he passed. Look at the formations they were in.

Back to the QB situation. What do you do to beat the Colts?? You pressure Manning. Simple, clean cut. You get pressure on him, he crumbles. That is why he has difficulty in the playoffs. He doesn't play well under pressure. Neither did Moon, or Marino. Heck the poster child QB from last year doesn't play well with defenders in his face, see his performance this year? (Roethlesburger). Not every QB can have the presence of a Joe Montana or Elway. Not every QB can run like a Vick or McNabb to elude pressure. You stick pretty much any QB in our offense right now and you would think they "suck". I don't care if Manning was in there, you guys would be calling for his head and blaming whoever it was that brought him here, calling them loser, etc.

When the QB cannot get into a three step drop before the defense is on him, its not his fault. When Fred Weary (#70) is getting run over like a train hit him and literally flying backwards, its not the QB's fault. When Winston cant even find his man as he is running around him to the QB, its not the QB's fault. When the QB has the pocket collapse on him in under 3 seconds, and it collapses around him with no option for lateral movement, its not his fault. When the pocket collapses on him in 3-4 seconds and NOBODY picks it up and comes back for the dump and there is no option in the play calling for an outlet, its not the QB's fault. That QB Carr got rattled early, but nobody could have played in that offense as a QB that day. Not without a RB or some protection. He made errors just like the rest of the team. The rest of the team should share blame though in that -5 passing yards, along with him. Or is just too easy for your intellects to blame one person than realize we have a bigger problem???

Carr does cause some of the sacks by holding onto the ball. He causes some of the batted passes and int's by staring down receivers. He doesn't inspire the O-line to protect him that well. But please oh please cease this boundless, groundless banter that HE is "THE" problem with our team, and our offense. That is just plain asinine. Absolutely ridiculous.

Let me ask you another question. When an offense makes a fumble, because the defense forced it....was it a poor offense or great defense that caused the fumble?? If you are a newspaper editor or a MB junkie, its the offense that screwed up and they are horrible. Thats easier and more glamorous. Actually, to players its the defense that forced it, and they should get credit as a good play. The Raiders didnt drop any balls while they were running down the field. The Texans FORCED the fumbles by their tackling and going after the ball.

Oh please oh please, dont you dare bring up Romo. Dallas and Houston are different animals. Dallas HAS an offensive line. Romo can go into a 5 step drop if he wants to. When the pocket collapses its not like the Houston pocket collapse where it implodes, he still can run out of it laterally. He still has movement. Dallas was a 9-7 team last year with a crappy QB? And before that they were still pretty good with that guy now playing in the Canadian league. They had a team before Romo, he is just surfing the wave that was already there and pulling off some better tricks. We don't have a wave to surf yet here in Houston, thanks to the past blunders in FA and the draft.

This must be our American way. Like our political system. Republican OR Democrat, right or wrong, black or white. What about the rest of the ideas, graduation of blame, and other colors?? I REFUSE to believe that everyone in America thinks in a "template" that agrees with everything either the Republicans think or the Democrats think. The two party system is a ludicrous as the idea that in every argument one person is right and the other is wrong. It's just too ingrained and corrupt to be changed.

Kinda like your football ideas eh?

Can you tell all these posts irritated me???...just a bit? :)

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I bet McKinney snapped this year and said something smart ass around coach about Pretty Vacant and that was the end of McKinney's playing time. See all the wonderful side effects of having such a weak link at the top?
 
My two cents: I don't think Smith or Quinn is the answer even if avail. I think Carr is starter next year even if someone offers a trade. Even if someone offered a 2nd round pick for DC, I do not see Kubes taking for at least two reasons. One, he recognizes that Carr could do better with a season with a solid oline and a consistent running game. Two, IMO Kubes still thinks he can salvage Carr. If Carr is gone & we do not have at least a 7-9 record in 2007, the boo birds will come out as "6th year and no winning record."

What do we have to offer in trade for a solid back up QB on another team such as the guy @ KC to replace David? I suggest we hang with Carr and allow Kubes to do his magic as Carr did improve some. Use the first round pick which should be around 6-8 to get best O left tackle. If a very good LT is available in FA go get him. I am really tired of trying guards @ tackle. If Spencer comes back healthy & I hope so, let the 3 fight to start. With the teams history of injuries, we will prob need all three. Even if Wiegert play next season (13th) he should be gone the next. Winston has shown nothing to write his name in as starter in 07 at RT.

There is disagreement if Kolb from UH will be avail in 4th, but I would draft him if he is. At worst, he could be our # 2. We may have to be content with drafting a QB in 2008 draft.
 
Coming from a person who's down on Carr ... I think Kubiak would take a six pack of Bud Light for him about now . Monday it may be a 16oz. Bud Light .
 
What do we have to offer in trade for a solid back up QB on another team such as the guy @ KC to replace David? I suggest we hang with Carr and allow Kubes to do his magic as Carr did improve some. Use the first round pick which should be around 6-8 to get best O left tackle. If a very good LT is available in FA go get him. I am really tired of trying guards @ tackle. If Spencer comes back healthy & I hope so, let the 3 fight to start. With the teams history of injuries, we will prob need all three. Even if Wiegert play next season (13th) he should be gone the next. Winston has shown nothing to write his name in as starter in 07 at RT.

There is disagreement if Kolb from UH will be avail in 4th, but I would draft him if he is. At worst, he could be our # 2. We may have to be content with drafting a QB in 2008 draft.

As much of a demand there's going to be at QB this offseason, I see Kolb getting picked in the second or early in the third. Maybe even earlier.:cool:
 
Jeffrey, I feel your pain, but you will get carpal tunnel syndrome before you can change anyone's mind on this board. As you called some of them simpletons yourself...

Anyway, anyone worth his salt in knowledge of football knows that the most important position on the offense, is the left tackle (right tackle for south paws QB's).... Where is our starting LT?.......... On the IR...

'nuff said....
 
No way is the LT more important than the QB on any team...anywhere...
 
Manning can get the ball out of his hand with after 1-2 seconds after the snap. Just watch him sometime when the blitz comes. He reads it quickly and the ball is gone. That is why he is not sacked often. He has a superior line but that doesn't matter. If he was behind this line, he would be fine becasue he IS AN NFL QB.

Did you miss last year's Steeler playoff game? He was shut down by the blitz. Started crying to the coach. That's what Carr has seen for over 4 years.
 
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