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Carr is Mr Sack. It's all him. This week is your proof.

L

lod01

Practice Squad
Sage Rosenfels vs TEN on 10/29/2006: 18-25 186 3 TD/1 INT.

ZERO sacks.

Sage for the year: 27-39. 1 SACK. IF that was Carr, there would be 3-4 sacks. He averages 1 sack every 10 attempts. Why is it that Sage doesn't behind the same line?

Carr this week vs TEN:

I'll fill it in after the game but he will suck.

Carr vs TEN last year, 7 and 6 sacks.
 
are you really blaming the sacks on Carr? I'm no Carr homer. I think we should build up the o-line this off season, and if he still cant perform, dump him, so there's no carr love in what i'm saying. but seriously. you're blaming the sacks on carr?
 
lod01 said:
Yeah.

After further review. Carr played in that game too.

Carr: 15-21 ZERO TDs/1 INT...yes, 4 more sacks.

So who was blocking for Carr that game and who was blocking for Rosenfels?

THE SAME PEOPLE.
Click to expand...

Let us not forget the fumbles which occured after Carrs sacks.:brickwall
 
joedinkle said:
are you really blaming the sacks on Carr? I'm no Carr homer. I think we should build up the o-line this off season, and if he still cant perform, dump him, so there's no carr love in what i'm saying. but seriously. you're blaming the sacks on carr?
Click to expand...

so are you so naive to think that sacks are all the Offensive Line's fault. sacks are a stat that are both the fault of QB and OL. To be honest, in the first 2 years a lot of the sacks were the OL's fault but the past 2 years many have been Carr's.
 
How easy is it to sit here and say Sage is the better QB?? Dude, barely played. His sample size is extremely minimal... so its all a guessing game.

You give Sage an entire year behind an O-line that has gotten progressively more injured week after week, and obviously worse in play....and I would like to think he would stink it up too.
 
lod01 said:
Same sample of turdman carr in the same game.

Carr = sack. It's so obvious. But the Carr lovers will blame anything but him.
Click to expand...

So if you are going off this sample size for Sage...and multiply it to add up to a full season. We have a PRO BOWL QB on our bench??? Exactly. Its such a small sample size, you really can't conclude a whole lot.

I'm no Carr lover, but I can also see that a back up QB Sage Rose would not save this team either.

You can also take sample sizes for Carr from back earlier in the season when our O-Line was more healthy, or during that 7-9 year when Carr had time... he was a very effecient QB,etc.. Doesnt mean that he truly is.

Bottom line for me is when the QB is our MAIN issue.... all our other positions have been solved, and we are basically ready for the playoffs. We were 2-14 last year. We still have a LONG way to go. It wasnt all going to be fixed in ONE YEAR.
 
Tailgate said:
So if you are going off this sample size for Sage...and multiply it to add up to a full season. We have a PRO BOWL QB on our bench??? Exactly. Its such a small sample size, you really can't conclude a whole lot.

I'm no Carr lover, but I can also see that a back up QB Sage Rose would not save this team either.

You can also take sample sizes for Carr from back earlier in the season when our O-Line was more healthy, or during that 7-9 year when Carr had time... he was a very effecient QB,etc.. Doesnt mean that he truly is.

Bottom line for me is when the QB is our MAIN issue.... all our other positions have been solved, and we are basically ready for the playoffs. We were 2-14 last year. We still have a LONG way to go. It wasnt all going to be fixed in ONE YEAR.
Click to expand...

Carefull there Tailgate.... With a post like that you will get labled a Carr Pimp...

People wont read your post and take it at face value. They will railroad you as a Carr Lover or Apologist, rather than looking at some of the good points you make....
 
Tailgate said:
How easy is it to sit here and say Sage is the better QB?? Dude, barely played. His sample size is extremely minimal... so its all a guessing game.

You give Sage an entire year behind an O-line that has gotten progressively more injured week after week, and obviously worse in play....and I would like to think he would stink it up too.
Click to expand...
That's the big problem. Everything has always been given to David Carr. He's never had to earn it. And with Rosenfel's superior performance, I would have thought they would have given him more of a chance to prove whether he could do it again. They didn't. It's always been that it's David's job no matter what and they won't even consider anybody else.
 
Some of the more astute posters (and they know who they are) have been saying for years Carr should get credit for leading the league in sacks. He ranks right up there with Reggie White and Bruce Smith. As for how do we know Sage is better than Carr, umm, because he isn't Carr. I would bench Carr and start Owen Daniels if I had to. I'm tired of watching week after week of total ineptutide at the QB spot. I would rather play pretty much anyone at this point whose last name is not Carr. Heck, I bet even Daniels can hold on to the ball when sacked.
 
A Texan said:
That's the big problem. Everything has always been given to David Carr. He's never had to earn it. And with Rosenfel's superior performance, I would have thought they would have given him more of a chance to prove whether he could do it again. They didn't. It's always been that it's David's job no matter what and they won't even consider anybody else.
Click to expand...

Again, I am NO CARR LOVER. From what I remember... Carr bounced back well from the benching. The Carr critics were silent. There have been a couple of harsh Oline injuries since then as well. Either way... I just put my trust into Kubiak. He is a QB guy ALL THE WAY. Not to mention its only his first year. People like to question him passing up Vince all the time. That will probably turn out to be a mistake....but lets not overlook the fact that we could also have another Julious Peppers on our hands. I will take that. And Demeco... nothing to say there. Owen Daniels, Spencer, Lundy,etc,etc...

A few more drafts like these... and it WILL interpret into a winning team.

Times are tough... and its always the easiest to put all the blame on the QB. Just the way it goes I guess.
 
I guess that would make Rosenfels soft or injury-prone. Apparently, he gets hurt every time he gets hit. Does anyone in Houston remember Chris Chandler?
 
From what I recall Carr didn't so much "bounce back well" from being benched as he "bounced back careful". There was no light suddenly coming on and there was no distinctly different David Carr to be seen (not that you're saying that or anything). I'm just thinking it over and I've seen a number of people mention that he bounced back well from being benched and I didn't really see anything to get excited about. It was just the normal ebb and flow of his game in my opinion.
 
Carr is not a leader that inspires his offensive linemen to protect him at all costs. If you think none of the sacks are his fault, the you've got blinders on. I don't blame him for all the sacks, but he doesn't have the best pocket presence, and hardly ever gets himself out of the grasp of a defender. He certainly never seems to 'feel the heat' of the rush...at least not lately.

He's not a clutch QB, either. He's a guy that needs a pro-bowl line and pro-bowl receivers, along with a dominant defense, for him to be on a winning team.

So the question fans have to ask themselves is if they want a 'Trent Dilfer'-type QB on this team...and, if so, perhaps he should take less money in his contract so the team can afford all that pro-bowl talent to put around him.
 
Hervoyel said:
From what I recall Carr didn't so much "bounce back well" from being benched as he "bounced back careful". There was no light suddenly coming on and there was no distinctly different David Carr to be seen (not that you're saying that or anything). I'm just thinking it over and I've seen a number of people mention that he bounced back well from being benched and I didn't really see anything to get excited about. It was just the normal ebb and flow of his game in my opinion.
Click to expand...

You probably have a point. He didnt exactly tear it up. Just saying... it didnt necessarily warrant a Sage replacement EITHER. If it werent for 2 stupid Cook fumbles (giants, and Bills). After the benching... Carr could have "led" us to 3 straight wins. The numbers werent all that impressive... but neither are Youngs. But they win, and he gets all the credit of course.

Sage very well may have been better than Carr if they replaced him. Again, its all opinions at this point.
 
Double Barrel said:
Carr is not a leader that inspires his offensive linemen to protect him at all costs. If you think none of the sacks are his fault, the you've got blinders on. I don't blame him for all the sacks, but he doesn't have the best pocket presence, and hardly ever gets himself out of the grasp of a defender. He certainly never seems to 'feel the heat' of the rush...at least not lately.

He's not a clutch QB, either. He's a guy that needs a pro-bowl line and pro-bowl receivers, along with a dominant defense, for him to be on a winning team.

So the question fans have to ask themselves is if they want a 'Trent Dilfer'-type QB on this team...and, if so, perhaps he should take less money in his contract so the team can afford all that pro-bowl talent to put around him.
Click to expand...


Well, most NFL teams do. There are only so many Bradys to go around. And if thats the case... thats what we have to go for. It wouldnt hurt even IF David is the man. But really, besides passing up VY (in the past)... who else is availabel that we could stick back there and NOT need the same thing?
 
joedinkle said:
are you really blaming the sacks on Carr? I'm no Carr homer. I think we should build up the o-line this off season, and if he still cant perform, dump him, so there's no carr love in what i'm saying. but seriously. you're blaming the sacks on carr?
Click to expand...

Joe, you were 16 when they started building the line for David. You gonna wait until you're 60 for it to work.
 
lod01 said:
Sage Rosenfels vs TEN on 10/29/2006: 18-25 186 3 TD/1 INT.

ZERO sacks.

Sage for the year: 27-39. 1 SACK. IF that was Carr, there would be 3-4 sacks. He averages 1 sack every 10 attempts. Why is it that Sage doesn't behind the same line?

Carr this week vs TEN:

I'll fill it in after the game but he will suck.

Carr vs TEN last year, 7 and 6 sacks.
Click to expand...

:listening
 
Tailgate said:
How easy is it to sit here and say Sage is the better QB?? Dude, barely played. His sample size is extremely minimal... so its all a guessing game.

You give Sage an entire year behind an O-line that has gotten progressively more injured week after week, and obviously worse in play....and I would like to think he would stink it up too.
Click to expand...

We would all like to think he'd stink it up too.....

But I don't care about stats....or production for that matter.....For the most part I tend to judge players by watching them play...Looking at subtle things like footwork, pocket presence, how they react under pressure, how they react to adversity....And since we're talking about QB's I also look at how the team reacts to said QB.....

Carr would get an F in all those categories....

IMO, it almost seems as if the team was revitalized with Sage behind center....Think about it....If everytime you see a guy play he's looked pretty well, and your current starter is playing so poorly, as a member of that team, would you not kinda, sorta, maybe, just a lil bit wanna see what the back-up can do ?
 
Tailgate said:
Well, most NFL teams do. There are only so many Bradys to go around. And if thats the case... thats what we have to go for. It wouldnt hurt even IF David is the man. But really, besides passing up VY (in the past)... who else is availabel that we could stick back there and NOT need the same thing?
Click to expand...

That is the million dollar question and part of the overall debate in the 'Carr Wars'.

Some say that nobody could prevail with this offense, others say that Carr just doesn't have the ability to manage a game due to a variety of reasons.

Do I have The Answer? Of course not, none of us do. We can speculate, throw our opinions out there, but it's all hypothetical at this point.
 
Tailgate said:
Well, most NFL teams do. There are only so many Bradys to go around. And if thats the case... thats what we have to go for. It wouldnt hurt even IF David is the man. But really, besides passing up VY (in the past)... who else is availabel that we could stick back there and NOT need the same thing?
Click to expand...

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here....

Are you saying that you're willing to settle for a QB being paid like he is, who is only as good as his line ?


And we'll never know who else can succeed in our offense at this rate...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Forget the line....

It's almost like you're saying Carr is only as good as his line....
Click to expand...

Well, sometimes QB's arein fact. Ever heard the old saying... the game is WON in the trenches?? In this case... I think Carr isnt a great or even good QB. I just see what I see.... and last Sunday, I saw a great Oakland D run through our offensive linemen like they were turnstiles. Winston got owned on almost EVERY pass play.

Hike, one... two ... thrCRASH
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I don't really understand what you're trying to say here....

Are you saying that you're willing to settle for a QB being paid like he is, who is only as good as his line ?


And we'll never know who else can succeed in our offense at this rate...
Click to expand...

I am saying... IT IS WHAT IT IS. There really are zero options right now. I would rather fix our Oline and secondary problems before I would replae Carr. And even if we did replace Carr... who could we get to replace him? Its all apart of the debate.
 
lod01 said:
Sage Rosenfels vs TEN on 10/29/2006: 18-25 186 3 TD/1 INT.

ZERO sacks.

Sage for the year: 27-39. 1 SACK. IF that was Carr, there would be 3-4 sacks. He averages 1 sack every 10 attempts. Why is it that Sage doesn't behind the same line?

Carr this week vs TEN:

I'll fill it in after the game but he will suck.

Carr vs TEN last year, 7 and 6 sacks.
Click to expand...



So if Sage had played that whole game he could have had 6Td's 2 Int and been 36 of 50 att. Based on this game and the 3 snaps he took against the Jags he's money. We would be 12-0 with those stats, what were we thinking.

It's easy to view a cross section vs. 1 opponent, it's a baseless point as Sage is out for the season. He didn't get sacked against the Titans because they didn't even pressure him. Why? I don't know, but the D for the Titans loosened way up when SR came into the game.
 
Tailgate said:
Well, sometimes QB's arein fact. Ever heard the old saying... the game is WON in the trenches?? In this case... I think Carr isnt a great or even good QB. I just see what I see.... and last Sunday, I saw a great Oakland D run through our offensive linemen like they were turnstiles. Winston got owned on almost EVERY pass play.
Click to expand...

Well you can have your chameleon QB who only looks like what's around him....

If that's what you're satisfied with then that's what you're satisfied with...
 
Tailgate said:
I am saying... IT IS WHAT IT IS. There really are zero options right now. I would rather fix our Oline and secondary problems before I would replae Carr. And even if we did replace Carr... who could we get to replace him? Its all apart of the debate.
Click to expand...

Signed,


Jerry Jones, and a million cowboy fans who said the same thing b4 Romo took over
 
I'll just go ahead and say it...and stop beating around the Reggie Bush....


OUR TEAM WOULD BE MUCH BETTER WITH BETTER QB PLAY...

no we wouldn't be contenders, but we'd be better than we are now....

You'd be amazed at how a little pocket presence would make you forget about "how bad the line is"...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Signed,


Jerry Jones, and a million cowboy fans who said the same thing b4 Romo took over
Click to expand...

You mean... a team that was 9-7 last year?? That added TO? A team that only a couple of years ago had Quincy Carter of all QB's lead them to 10 wins?


I will go ahead and say it. With 13 people on the IR, with lack of depth on the Line, a very THIN secondary, a lack of talent overall due to HORRID Casserly and Capers drafts, a switch of QB to Sage, or Plummer... or whom ever... would not make that much of a difference. IMO.
 
Tailgate said:
You mean... a team that was 9-7 last year?? That added TO? A team that only a couple of years ago had Quincy Carter of all QB's lead them to 10 wins?
Click to expand...

What on gods green earth does that have to do with anything ?

I never said that we will be on the Cowboys level with a QB change....

All I said was that we'll get better....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
What on gods green earth does that have to do with anything ?

I never said that we will be on the Cowboys level with a QB change....

All I said was that we'll get better....
Click to expand...


What?? Umm.. if you want to sign me off as Jerry Jones then you need to compare the situations talent wise exactly. Its not the SAME SITUATION.

I already heard you said we would "get better."
 
Tailgate said:
What?? Umm.. if you want to sign me off as Jerry Jones then you need to compare the situations talent wise exactly. Its not the SAME SITUATION.

I already heard you said we would "get better."
Click to expand...

Maybe you just don't understand what an analogy is...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
. Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.
Click to expand...

lol... if you didnt catch it. I was simply pointing out how WEAK your analogy was.
 
Tailgate said:
lol... if you didnt catch it. I was simply pointing out how WEAK your analogy was.
Click to expand...

And I was pointing out that you just didn't understand....and when people tend to not understand something they describe it with colorful words such as "weak"...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
And I was pointing out that you just didn't understand....and when people tend to not understand something they describe it with colorful words such as "weak"...
Click to expand...

Ok, this is turning into "retarded" quick. Do I really need to bring up my original post that you signed off on?? It all starts there.
 
ib4texans said:
So if Sage had played that whole game he could have had 6Td's 2 Int and been 36 of 50 att. Based on this game and the 3 snaps he took against the Jags he's money. We would be 12-0 with those stats, what were we thinking.

It's easy to view a cross section vs. 1 opponent, it's a baseless point as Sage is out for the season. He didn't get sacked against the Titans because they didn't even pressure him. Why? I don't know, but the D for the Titans loosened way up when SR came into the game.
Click to expand...

Oh please. He was a joy to watch for the few minutes he was in there. He had downfield vision and accuracy. OMG OMG OMG.

We all know Sage would have started more games if McNair wasn't watching his money. You don't bench the guy you just extended. Makes you look like a complete fool. You dig in your heels and figure the public has a real short memory when it comes time to renew tickets.

Someone defined logic above. The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
 
Tailgate said:
Ok, this is turning into "retarded" quick. Do I really need to bring up my original post that you signed off on?? It all starts there.
Click to expand...

I'll explain it one more time...

The cowboys went from point M-Z with a change....


The Texans can go from point A-M with a change...

:cowboy1:
 
Im not saying we get as good as the cowboys with a change...

Im just saying we can get better....like the Cowboys did....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I'll explain it one more time...

The cowboys went from point M-Z with a change....


The Texans can go from point A-M with a change...

:cowboy1:
Click to expand...


Gee, thanks for breaking it all down for me! And I am telling you... with the talent on this team... NOT SO. You getting it now??

And AGAIN... MY ORIGINAL POINT when you so graciously taught me what an ANALOGY was, I was pointing out we DONT HAVE any options right now. We going to A-M with Van Pelt?? Im gonna say NO as well. Thats what I was talking about.
 
Tailgate said:
You probably have a point. He didnt exactly tear it up. Just saying... it didnt necessarily warrant a Sage replacement EITHER. If it werent for 2 stupid Cook fumbles (giants, and Bills). After the benching... Carr could have "led" us to 3 straight wins. The numbers werent all that impressive... but neither are Youngs. But they win, and he gets all the credit of course.

Sage very well may have been better than Carr if they replaced him. Again, its all opinions at this point.
Click to expand...

I remember mentioning that the Giants game was a big game for Carr. Forget the stats...... 30 pass attempts for 176 yards.... 26 yards rushing, and a TD....

What I liked about Carr in that game, was that he made a decision, and went with it. I don't care for QBs to run with the ball, I'd rather they throw it away, and play another down.......

but in that game, if he decided to throw the ball, he threw the ball. if he decided to run with it, he ran with it.

Against the raiders, after he decided to throw the ball(cocked his arm to get ready to throw it) he thought about it(pulled the ball down), then thought about throwing it again(cocked the ball again) then got sacked. I don't know what their numbers are, but I do believe they are amoung the league leaders in sacks, and INTs... so maybe he did us a favor by not throwing the ball, but those fumbles......

Anyway, same thing with running the ball. Against the Giants, if he decided he was going to run.............BAM he was gone.... against the raiders, he'd take a step, think about throwing, then take another step...... He also tried to split the defenders in front of him, instead of backing up in the pocket. That's one of those rookie things I used to talk about all the time, but won't get into too much here.

you're right, had Cook not fumbled.... we very well may be up 2 games right now.

At the same time, had David not fumbled, we could've beat the Colts... the Skins... the Cowboys(this was actually a stare down INT)...... the Titans.... etc.........

if you want to look at it like that.
 
Tailgate said:
And AGAIN... MY ORIGINAL POINT when you so graciously taught me what an ANALOGY was,I was pointing out we DONT HAVE any options right now. We going to A-M with Van Pelt?? Im gonna say NO as well. Thats what I was talking about.
Click to expand...

Yeah!!!

Settle: the word of the day
 
kingh99 said:
Oh please. He was a joy to watch for the few minutes he was in there. He had downfield vision and accuracy. OMG OMG OMG.

We all know Sage would have started more games if McNair wasn't watching his money. You don't bench the guy you just extended. Makes you look like a complete fool. You dig in your heels and figure the public has a real short memory when it comes time to renew tickets.

Someone defined logic above. The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
Click to expand...


Too true; and the point is ther will be no change, there can be no change. I agree Sage played a great 26 minutes of football. We will not know this season what he can do with more time, he's gone.:crutch:
 
thunderkyss said:
I remember mentioning that the Giants game was a big game for Carr. Forget the stats...... 30 pass attempts for 176 yards.... 26 yards rushing, and a TD....

What I liked about Carr in that game, was that he made a decision, and went with it. I don't care for QBs to run with the ball, I'd rather they throw it away, and play another down.......

but in that game, if he decided to throw the ball, he threw the ball. if he decided to run with it, he ran with it.

Against the raiders, after he decided to throw the ball(cocked his arm to get ready to throw it) he thought about it(pulled the ball down), then thought about throwing it again(cocked the ball again) then got sacked. I don't know what their numbers are, but I do believe they are amoung the league leaders in sacks, and INTs... so maybe he did us a favor by not throwing the ball, but those fumbles......

Anyway, same thing with running the ball. Against the Giants, if he decided he was going to run.............BAM he was gone.... against the raiders, he'd take a step, think about throwing, then take another step...... He also tried to split the defenders in front of him, instead of backing up in the pocket. That's one of those rookie things I used to talk about all the time, but won't get into too much here.

you're right, had Cook not fumbled.... we very well may be up 2 games right now.

At the same time, had David not fumbled, we could've beat the Colts... the Skins... the Cowboys(this was actually a stare down INT)...... the Titans.... etc.........

if you want to look at it like that.
Click to expand...



I understand what you are saying.... I do. It does work BOTH ways. But in this case...we are referencing the 3 games AFTER he was benched. Thus... my point was Carr's play wasnt bad enough at that time to warrent the Sage replacement.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I'll explain it one more time...

The cowboys went from point M-Z with a change....


The Texans can go from point A-M with a change...

:cowboy1:
Click to expand...

Good point. We'll never know how bad our offensive line is with David Carr as our QB.

Put another way..... We'll never fix our OL as long as David is our QB.

If we had steve Hutchinson, everyone would be talking about how poor he is at pass blocking.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Carefull there Tailgate.... With a post like that you will get labled a Carr Pimp...

People wont read your post and take it at face value. They will railroad you as a Carr Lover or Apologist, rather than looking at some of the good points you make....
Click to expand...



Truer words were never spoken... lol
 
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