Arguement with my son..

Not sure where this thread goes but give me some feed back. On way to work today, I had a disagreement with my adult son. We were discussing BCS and how teams are selected for bowls, strength of schedule, etc. Our disagreement came over sloppy wins. His opinion I have seen shared by others on this MB. My comment was directed at all sports. For my personal satisfaction, I do not enjoy sloppy wins by the team I am rooting for. I accept that a win is a win but I am irritated when players do not seem to be putting forth a good effort.

He seemed to be surprised that I could voice disapproval. I was not advocating giving up a win just recognizing poor play. I also have problems with teams such as U Texas playing pushovers like N. Texas State rather than scheduling a stronger team. His view was everybody does it. Am I by myself on this?

Meloy said:

Not sure where this thread goes but give me some feed back. On way to work today, I had a disagreement with my adult son. We were discussing BCS and how teams are selected for bowls, strength of schedule, etc. Our disagreement came over sloppy wins. His opinion I have seen shared by others on this MB. My comment was directed at all sports. For my personal satisfaction, I do not enjoy sloppy wins by the team I am rooting for. I accept that a win is a win but I am irritated when players do not seem to be putting forth a good effort.

He seemed to be surprised that I could voice disapproval. I was not advocating giving up a win just recognizing poor play. I also have problems with teams such as U Texas playing pushovers like N. Texas State rather than scheduling a stronger team. His view was everybody does it. Am I by myself on this?

Click to expand...

A win's a win...

That being said, I would just as soon beat my good buddy Brad in Chess rather than my oldest boy Vince.

Challenge makes the win COMPLETE.

Meloy said:

Not sure where this thread goes but give me some feed back. On way to work today, I had a disagreement with my adult son. We were discussing BCS and how teams are selected for bowls, strength of schedule, etc. Our disagreement came over sloppy wins. His opinion I have seen shared by others on this MB. My comment was directed at all sports. For my personal satisfaction, I do not enjoy sloppy wins by the team I am rooting for. I accept that a win is a win but I am irritated when players do not seem to be putting forth a good effort.

He seemed to be surprised that I could voice disapproval. I was not advocating giving up a win just recognizing poor play. I also have problems with teams such as U Texas playing pushovers like N. Texas State rather than scheduling a stronger team. His view was everybody does it. Am I by myself on this?

Click to expand...

First of all it is the University of North Texas. There is no State attached. Sorry to complain but i am an alum. I see what you are saying. I do however believe it is ok to start the season off with a cup cake maybe even two. Kinda like a dress rehersal to get your chemistry. If Texas would have had a few more games before Ohio State they may have won that game(but im glad the didn't). However you are only hurting yourself if you don't schedule one or two moderately tough non-conference games. As for a sloppy win, one or two a season isn't bad. Texas won the national title last year with a few and USC made it to the championship game with more than a few sloppy games. You can't expect a team to be "on" every game. What matters in the end is a W.

My personal feeling is that it can be and usually is good to design your schedule to prepare you to play better teams, in providing for what should be softer games at times.

When I played college ball for a D3 school in a very tough conference, our coach tried to schedule a lot of very hard teams into the non conference games (including D1 games in which we had virtually no chance of winning on even our best day.) It never worked for us and while I could understand the view that it would make our "for real" conference games seem easier, it also meant that we struggled to develop a chemistry and a feel for each other early on (which was due to other factors as well.) OTOH when we did play crappy teams (the UNTs to our UT) it tended to result in sloppy play and excessive garbage time that didn't really help us develop either.

IMO its all in your coaching and talent that's going to determine whether you become a winner or not in those "for real" games ... many of the college game's most successful teams (in both football and basketball) seem to schedule a couple of gimme's, especially early on into the year. The idea against gimme's is to take care of your business, learn from whatever mistakes you do make, and make sure you get the W regardless. Ideally in these games you take your moral victory from focusing on execution regardless of the score and playing mistake-free, which can be difficult to do when you are up 50. Inherent mismatches are a part of sports and while less enjoyable or fulfilling, you can't overlook the importance of what can be gained (or for that matter lost, if you're not paying attention) even in kicking the crap out of some grossly inferior team.

Wow, I just saw this icon ... very cool ... had to give it a whirl

Moved thread to college football forum.

I think a big state school such as Texas has an obligation to schedule smaller, Division 1-A in-state schools such as North Texas. A game with UT is a big payday for these schools, and that's vital to keep these athletic programs afloat in the post Title IX era.

Do these games hurt teams like Texas strength of schedule? Sure, but that wouldn't matter if Division 1-A football had a playoff to determine its champion (as 1-AA and basketball do). But, they don't. The real culprit aren't schools schedule makers, but the powers that be that want to prop up the bogus bowl system and sit on the idea of a playoff sytem.

it's a two-sided coin. on one hand, it does seem like a copout for the big teams to schedule the small teams. on the other hand, those small teams are going to get better (in theory) by playing the big teams and getting more exposure.

For teams like UT and Ohio State the other factor is recruiting. UT makes, or atleast tries to make, a trip to DFW and Houston every year; because it's an easy win and it's an oppurtunity to bring the players you are recruting from that area to a game.

and under the current system it'll never change. Would you risk a shot at the BCS title game to paly a top flight program in Sept. if you were a UT type program?

Lucky said:

Moved thread to college football forum.

I think a big state school such as Texas has an obligation to schedule smaller, Division 1-A in-state schools such as North Texas. A game with UT is a big payday for these schools, and that's vital to keep these athletic programs afloat in the post Title IX era.

Do these games hurt teams like Texas strength of schedule? Sure, but that wouldn't matter if Division 1-A football had a playoff to determine its champion (as 1-AA and basketball do). But, they don't. The real culprit aren't schools schedule makers, but the powers that be that want to prop up the bogus bowl system and sit on the idea of a playoff sytem.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the move Lucky. You make one of the points I bring up; a huge payday for smaller colleges. I guess my point is, while I understand "scrimmages" against (that other University of Texas school I misidentified), it is not something that holds my interest. As far as tune ups, why shouldn't a more realistic opponent be selected? I agree it is a way to test your B team players and gives you a W, it just seems like bragging cause the team beat up on a much inferior team. I guess same could be said for pros but they have no input into what team is on the schedule. As said above, it ain't much of a challenge.

Hoth-Boy said:

For teams like UT and Ohio State the other factor is recruiting. UT makes, or atleast tries to make, a trip to DFW and Houston every year; because it's an easy win and it's an oppurtunity to bring the players you are recruting from that area to a game.

and under the current system it'll never change. Would you risk a shot at the BCS title game to paly a top flight program in Sept. if you were a UT type program?

Click to expand...

Forgot about the recruitment angle. If all conferences scheduled in a more balanced way it would improve play. As the individual college schedules whom they play, I'm going to be offered the occasional cream puff. No offense North Texas U alumni, but I seldom watch those type of games. My idea would be something as in baseball when the pro team sends players to have a game against a farm league team. The top team gets a practise game & the "b" team gets a payday. Let me insert here that I am in no way trying to make comments to embarrass anyone.

This should

Texas would be right where they need to be if it wasn't for that PAC 10 officating crew. Texas is percentage points behind Florida right now, but if OU would have won that game the way they should have. Texas's strength of schedule would be better and they would be sitting 3rd next week (assuming that they beat K State) and just waiting for Ohio State or Michigan to lose.

there is no strength of schedule factor in the BCS anymore, so i doubt that. the computers themselves use it, but texas is already ranked ahead of UF, so it wouldn't matter.

kastofsna said:

there is no strength of schedule factor in the BCS anymore, so i doubt that. the computers themselves use it, but texas is already ranked ahead of UF, so it wouldn't matter.

Click to expand...

Not in the BCS

BCS Standings
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Louisville
4. Florida
5. Texas

V Man said:

Not in the BCS

BCS Standings
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Louisville
4. Florida
5. Texas

Click to expand...

And Louisville got upset last night. I can't believe I turned that game off before the 4th Q.

actually now that i look at it, the computers have florida ranked 5th, and texas ranked 10th. so if UF wins out, there's pretty much no chance texas gets in. the human polls will rank UF ahead of texas with victories against SC, FSU and arkansas/auburn.

kastofsna said:

actually now that i look at it, the computers have florida ranked 5th, and texas ranked 10th. so if UF wins out, there's pretty much no chance texas gets in. the human polls will rank UF ahead of texas with victories against SC, FSU and arkansas/auburn.

Click to expand...

Come on, does anyone see Texas ranked 10th or lower than 3rd?

uh, yeah. florida is 3rd.

Meloy said:

Come on, does anyone see Texas ranked 10th or lower than 3rd?

Click to expand...

Had a guy on the radio, saying that if Ohio State is the remaining unbeaten team at the end of the seasons and Texas remains at one loss, human voters would most likely let them have a chance to defend their national championship. But do to the fact that the computers are killing Texas in the rankings (strength of schedule) it will be hard for Texas to jump Florida or Michigan if they both have one loss.

I think UT's best shot at getting in the title game is for OSU to kill Michigan, sending them farther down in the polls and reinforcing that UT only lost to the best team in the country. Florida has to win out, and that is far less likley to happen then for UT to win out. This means Florida probably has its future in its hands, but they have to beat South Carolina, Florida State and probably Arkansas, and that is by no means a given.

it's not a given that texas will be k-state, A&M or nebraska. not at all.

Meloy said:

He seemed to be surprised that I could voice disapproval. I was not advocating giving up a win just recognizing poor play. I also have problems with teams such as U Texas playing pushovers like N. Texas State rather than scheduling a stronger team. His view was everybody does it. Am I by myself on this?

Click to expand...

The schedules of these schools are made pretty far in advance. North Texas were Sun Belt Conference champions 4 of the last 6 years. Not exactly a definition of a powerhouse but hardly a pushover at the time they were scheduled.

And when you schedule a home and home with Ohio State, you don't have to make excuses for the rest of your schedule for those two seasons.

But your son is correct. Just about every team in every BCS conference that is expected to compete for the MNC schedules cupcakes during their non-conference schedule. Especially the schools in the SEC. Reason being, they know they can count on their conference schedule to put their SOS where it needs to be. If you know your conference schedule is going to be tough, why risk a loss before you begin conference play?

And you won't hear the smaller schools complaining because in the process of getting their heads kicked in by the BCS giants, they're also picking up rather large paychecks (along with the exposure as previously mentioned).

kastofsna said:

actually now that i look at it, the computers have florida ranked 5th, and texas ranked 10th. so if UF wins out, there's pretty much no chance texas gets in. the human polls will rank UF ahead of texas with victories against SC, FSU and arkansas/auburn.

Click to expand...

Week 11 AP Poll:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Louisville
4. Texas
5. Auburn
6. Florida

Week 11 USA Today Poll:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Texas
4. Louisville
5. Auburn
6. Florida

South Carolina 5-4
Western Carolina 2-7
Florida State 5-4
Arkansas/Auburn

Kansas State 6-4
Texas A&M 8-2 (9-2 if they beat Nebraska today, 8-3 if they don't)
Nebraska 7-3 (8-3 if they beat A&M today, 7-4 if they don't)

If both teams win out, Florida's not passing Texas in the AP or USA Today.

But yeah, if they're (Florida) still ahead in the BCS...as they should be...it won't matter what the AP/USA Today say.

This is all ridiculous. Texas played OSU with a freshman QB starting his first game vs a quality opponent. He and the team in general have improved quite a bit since that game. There are probably several other teams that are playing much better now than they did to start the season and had early losses.

However, since there is no playoff system the teams playing the best at the end of the season don't have a shot at the NC. Having computers and voters determining teams is ridiculous. No other thing called a sport that I know of does this. College football will always be a joke until this is addressed.

Hookem Horns said:

However, since there is no playoff system the teams playing the best at the end of the season don't have a shot at the NC. Having computers and voters determining teams is ridiculous. No other thing called a sport that I know of does this. College football will always be a joke until this is addressed.

Click to expand...

Could not agree more.

ahh how i love college football. this is the best year i've ever witnessed.

The idea of Ohio State and Michigan play each other back-to-back is looking more likely by the week.

Cal knocks off USC. USC has two losses.
USC knocks off Notre Dame. ND has two losses.
WVU knocks off Rutgers. Rutgers has one loss but that wouldn't put them above a 1 loss tOSU/Michigan.

Florida and Arkansas have got to be watering at the mouths.

Crazy.

the only way there's a rematch between OSU and michigan is if:

1: florida loses
2: notre dame loses
3: USC loses
4: arkansas loses
5: rutgers loses

there's 2 weeks of football after the OSU/Michigan game, and as we all know, the pollsters are all about what they saw LAST. so with Florida/USC/Arkansas/Notre Dame all potentially having key victories to impress the voters, the loser of the OSU/Michigan game will be left out.

Holden135 said:

First of all it is the University of North Texas. There is no State attached. Sorry to complain but i am an alum. I see what you are saying. I do however believe it is ok to start the season off with a cup cake maybe even two. Kinda like a dress rehersal to get your chemistry. If Texas would have had a few more games before Ohio State they may have won that game(but im glad the didn't). However you are only hurting yourself if you don't schedule one or two moderately tough non-conference games. As for a sloppy win, one or two a season isn't bad. Texas won the national title last year with a few and USC made it to the championship game with more than a few sloppy games. You can't expect a team to be "on" every game. What matters in the end is a W.

Click to expand...

Fortunately, mercifully maybe, Kansas St. and Freeman spared the Texas DBs from being punked again by Smith, Gonzales and Ginn Jr. I dissagree with your assement of the Univeristy of Texas chances vs that trio again. Smith owned them the first time. He'd embarrass them again. If OSU wins out they're the champs because they scheduled the Home & Home game with UT early. Everything else, from everone else will be would of, could of and should of.

threetoedpete said:

Fortunately, mercifully maybe, Kansas St. and Freeman spared the Texas DBs from being punked again by Smith, Gonzales and Ginn Jr. I dissagree with your assement of the Univeristy of Texas chances vs that trio again. Smith owned them the first time. He'd embarrass them again. If OSU wins out they're the champs because they scheduled the Home & Home game with UT early. Everything else, from everone else will be would of, could of and should of.

Click to expand...

umm..they scored 24 points. K State embarased them a lot more then Troy Smith. Only giving up 24 points when you have practically no offense due to your inexperianced QB to the best team in the country is not that bad.

the game was over in the 3rd quarter. that's pretty embarrassing for the #2 team in the country at home. on national TV.

kastofsna said:

the game was over in the 3rd quarter. that's pretty embarrassing for the #2 team in the country at home. on national TV.

Click to expand...

Not really. Texas was still putting the ball in the red zone in the 3rd. They just couldnt score.

tOSU could've scored a lot more than 24 that game. Credit Tressel for realizing he didn't need to.

kastofsna said:

the game was over in the 3rd quarter. that's pretty embarrassing for the #2 team in the country at home. on national TV.

Click to expand...

Especailly since the professor let up on the gass peddle. With my orange colored glasses off, I though it could of been much worse. Horns fans and Ags fans gotta love 'em. Just hope it isn't Boise St.

Sorry there Huge didn't mean to step on ya. Great minds huh ?

well you're both texas fans, so i wouldn't use "great minds."

kastofsna said:

well you're both texas fans, so i wouldn't use "great minds."

Click to expand...

Says the Miami fan.

Priceless.

disrespecting The U is unacceptable.

kastofsna said:

disrespecting The U is unacceptable.

Click to expand...

Just waiting for the next brawl to break out.

yeah yeah, i know mack brown would never let her players stoop to that level.