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So it was all Carr's fault?

T

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I guess it was just me but I happened to see 2 of the worst performances in our O-Line's storied history turned in by Salaam and Wiegert. I also happened to see our special teams turn in a rather lackluster showing. Not to mention i've yet to see ANYONE even hint that Peek whiffed on 3 potential tackles off the top of my head, including the one where he had Vince wrapped up in the backfield and Vince shrugged him off and ran it in for a td.

There were many more mistakes but to keep my rant short...by saying Carr had a bad game today would be an understatement, but dont let the Carr haters on this board who have been waiting under their respective bridges keyboard in hand for the opportunity to crucify DC fool you into thinking Carr was the sole reason we lost this game today.

We win as a team and we lose as a team, it is a team game afterall.

PS: I hope Jeff Fisher can sleep tonight knowing he played a scumbag wankster that spits on women just to beat us :crying:
 
The Carr lovers hype every win like Carr won the game by himself.

The Carr haters hype every loss like Carr is the worst player in the league.

It seems as if there is no middle ground here.

I have an idea. The Houston Texans blew this game & lost.

Not the Houson David Carrs.
 
1. Carr didnt step into the pocket
2. Carr had no pocket awareness
3. Carr didnt protect the ball
4. Carr threw into 4 defenders

3 of our 5 turnovers were Carrs fault.. plain and simple. Did the pass blocking suck? yah it was pretty bad.. honestly its no excuse. Carr was supposed to be past all this.. he was supposed to have gained the ability to feel his pocket collapsing.. but he didnt. His head wasnt in the game, and as a result, he gave up 2 fumbles and an interception. Carr was responsible for handing the Titans 21 of thier points. Thats pretty bad.
 
Grid said:
1. Carr didnt step into the pocket
2. Carr had no pocket awareness
3. Carr didnt protect the ball
4. Carr threw into 4 defenders

3 of our 5 turnovers were Carrs fault.. plain and simple. Did the pass blocking suck? yah it was pretty bad.. honestly its no excuse. Carr was supposed to be past all this.. he was supposed to have gained the ability to feel his pocket collapsing.. but he didnt. His head wasnt in the game, and as a result, he gave up 2 fumbles and an interception. Carr was responsible for handing the Titans 21 of thier points. Thats pretty bad.
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What happened to all the people who cried & yelled when we went conservative at the end of the first half against Miami?

Now we try to do something & you people are now the ones saying it was a horrible idea.

NO QB can pass without protection.

Everyone on this board thought we would walk all over the Titans. Apparently our team did too.

Carr was horrible, but the team played like they either wanted to lose or already thought they had won.
 
So the golden boy has a terrible game.....is he perfect no...but it really seems like that is what this message board is about. It's knocking the kid. Look as a season ticket holder, what I saw today made me sick. But it wasn't just the golden boy's play, it was terrible clock management, hurry up offense (where was that), bringing in Dane when we were having success w/out him and droppped balls that resulted in INT's. The point is-you freaking ney sayers- you no where to be found last week and now I can hear it from the radio to newspaper to this freakin message board. Today's loss was bad however it was NOT all the golden boy's sole responsibility.
 
What happened to all the people who cried & yelled when we went conservative at the end of the first half against Miami?

Now we try to do something & you people are now the ones saying it was a horrible idea.
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What in the world are you talking about?

NO QB can pass without protection.
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I agree..but they CAN dump it off.. or run.. or at the very least.. fall down without turning the ball over. To do that though, the QB needs to actually realize that the sack is coming.. and to do that, he has to be aware of his surroundings. Something that Carr was NOT capable of being against the titans....which is very disconcerting.

Carr was horrible, but the team played like they either wanted to lose or already thought they had won.
Reply With Quote
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Bullpucky.

The team played great. AJ made a couple bad drops..he still made plays though... but Lundy had a stellar game.. Daniels had a stellar game.. Mario stepped up..our whole defense stepped up and was stopping the titans. Kinda hard to win when your offense turns the ball over in thier own territory over and over and over and over.
 
Grid said:
1. Carr didnt step into the pocket
2. Carr had no pocket awareness
3. Carr didnt protect the ball
4. Carr threw into 4 defenders

3 of our 5 turnovers were Carrs fault.. plain and simple. Did the pass blocking suck? yah it was pretty bad.. honestly its no excuse. Carr was supposed to be past all this.. he was supposed to have gained the ability to feel his pocket collapsing.. but he didnt. His head wasnt in the game, and as a result, he gave up 2 fumbles and an interception. Carr was responsible for handing the Titans 21 of thier points. Thats pretty bad.
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Exactly!

The line did suck, but Sage still found a way to rise above it and make plays. Interesting how the same offensive line against the same defense didn't give up a sack when Sage was in the game and scored 3 TDs, but gave up 4 sacks and no TDs with Carr in the game. Coincidence?? I think not.:cool:
 
Carr was the biggest contributor to the loss. AJ dropped one pass for an int, and dropped a pass that would have moved the chains at a crucial time. Saalam had a lot of bad penalties and probably kept us from scoring at least 7 points.

But if you take away Carrs horrible performance, we win the game. You really think that Sage came in and did something spectacular? he didnt..he just made the plays that were opened to him.. and he did it with the same poor protection that Carr had. Bottom line.. Carr was sucking.. he gave the titans the majority of thier points with his two fumbles and the stupid pass for an interception.

I didnt say anything last week cause there was nothing to say. it was a great game and we went out there and played hard and won. The root of the problem is inconsistency, and the reason that it is a big deal NOW is because we played a good game OTHER THAN Carr. Yah the pass protection was shoddy..we had some bad penalties and AJ dropped a couple.. but we still had that game in the bag..easy... if Carr hadnt made the crucial mistakes that he did.

ive said this about 50 times today.. but we are a team struggling with consistancy.. and we cannot afford to have the general of our offense making boneheaded mistakes that drags the whole team down. We are trying to rise above that type of play and Carr just wasnt rising with everyone else today. We cant afford to have him holding the team back at this juncture..we need to keep growing.


All that being said.. im fine with Kubiak starting him.. maybe it was just a fluke? maybe the benching will keep him focused in the future? I dunno.. but thats fine..lets see how he handles this. If the Carr I saw today shows its ugly head again though.. then im hoping we will put in Sage, and draft Carr's replacement this offseason.
 
Um...if u didnt notice, the Titans stop blitzing when Sage went in. Their whole defensive scheme was different, protecting the lead
 
your right..i didnt notice that.. in fact i noticed sage having defenders in his face quite often.

Are you sure that was the case? Cause on every passing play it seemed, sage was getting pressured.
 
bah007 said:
The Carr lovers hype every win like Carr won the game by himself.

The Carr haters hype every loss like Carr is the worst player in the league.

It seems as if there is no middle ground here.

I have an idea. The Houston Texans blew this game & lost.

Not the Houson David Carrs.
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There really is a solid core of people who post on this board who are not reactionary extremist, but get drowned out by either side or drawn into debates which push them closer to one edge than they really represent. It is not going to be easy to hear those voices over the next week, but the middle ground does exist.
 
TheRealJoker said:
So if we win every week you'll never post on this board again?
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Hah... i dont know how to respond to that. Ive been the voice of homerism on this board so long... it cracks me up that im being treated like a fairweather/chicken little.

I guess my answer is.. no, if we win every week ill still be posting.. but my posts will be shorter and consist of lots of "woooo"'s and "yeeehaaaww"'s.
 
Why are we dealing with absolutes?

Either it is all him or not?

Carr is part of a team. Being that, One man CAN be greatly responsible for the win or the loss of a game. It takes the entire team to put you in position to win, but one man failing in his play can disrupt a entire team or game.

Carr was this man today. Did he have help? Oh yeah. Several members on the Oline did not help him, and even AJ contributed a bit. That being said, no other position in football has as much responsibility as the QB position. A QB has the BEST chance to rally a team or send it into despair. This means the QB has the ability to affect the mood of the game. This is where Carr has problems.

David drop the ball today (literally) and Sage ran with it. David was leading the team down a bad road today, and Sage allowed to team a 'new faith' in the game. He almost lead the team to a victory.

There are no absolutes in football... but was Carr MORE responsible today for the first half mood.. and the play of the team? The answer is He contributed a huge part of the mood/mentality and was more at fault then anyone else. Even the poor play of the Offesive line didnt help, which added to the mood.
 
NO it was not BUTTERFINGERS!!!!!!!!!!
fault.
60 fumbles in 67 games he's just the greatest Quarterback of all time.:jumpbanan
 
Dime said:
Why are we dealing with absolutes?

Either it is all him or not?

Carr is part of a team. Being that, One man CAN be greatly responsible for the win or the loss of a game. It takes the entire team to put you in position to win, but one man failing in his play can disrupt a entire team or game.

Carr was this man today. Did he have help? Oh yeah. Several members on the Oline did not help him, and even AJ contributed a bit. That being said, no other position in football has as much responsibility as the QB position. A QB has the BEST chance to rally a team or send it into despair. This means the QB has the ability to affect the mood of the game. This is where Carr has problems.

David drop the ball today (literally) and Sage ran with it. David was leading the team down a bad road today, and Sage allowed to team a 'new faith' in the game. He almost lead the team to a victory.

There are no absolutes in football... but was Carr MORE responsible today for the first half mood.. and the play of the team? The answer is He contributed a huge part of the mood/mentality and was more at fault then anyone else. Even the poor play of the Offesive line didnt help, which added to the mood.
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Ding ding ding ding.. nail on the head. Said it better than I could.. and ive attempted to make my point in the last 5 or 6 posts :D.

Rep for you (if it will let me).

On that note..im going to bed.. so yall will have to wait till tomorrow for me to respond :D.
 
Carr had probably his worst outing of the year but sometimes that just happens. If your paying the guy franchise QB money and passing on once in a lifetime talents, he deserves a bit more of a leash imho. Personally, I don't think he should have been benched but obviously Kubiak didn't think Carr's head was in the game. He wanted to send a wake up call. That is the only reasoning I can come up with. Carr has looked pretty darn good this year aside from the acute case of fumbilitis. Today it flared up a bit too much for Kubiak's liking....and mine as well. I just don't know if a benching was the right move based on his improvements in general.

On a positive note, Sage looked pretty darn good and that can only help to push Carr into success or into unemployment line. Hopefully this whole thing works out. It did for Bill Walsh and Steve Young but I don't know if Kubiak/Carr is the same thing as Walsh/Young. Hopefully history repeats itself.
 
AustinJB said:
Exactly!

The line did suck, but Sage still found a way to rise above it and make plays. Interesting how the same offensive line against the same defense didn't give up a sack when Sage was in the game and scored 3 TDs, but gave up 4 sacks and no TDs with Carr in the game. Coincidence?? I think not.:cool:
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In all fairness, I think the Titan's D was in more of a prevent frame of mind by the time Sage got in. That said, IMO Carr looked like he was sitting on his, ummmm, laurels today. Sage looked like a decent NFL quarterback that could be a starter for a lot of teams.

I really wish Kubiak could have gotten to Carr in his first year, instead of dealing with Caper's damaged goods. I think Carr has the physical ability to be a very good QB, what he is dealing with is mental. I suspect the benching decision today was not spur of the moment, but a shock tactic Kubiak has considered for a while.

I see two possible scenarios as a result:
1. Carr is thinking "They can't do that to me, I'm David Carr!!" If this is the case, obviously Sage is our guy for at least the rest of the year.
2. Carr realizes free rides in the Kubiak regime are short lived, time to live up to the hype from when he was drafted.

I have a feeling the Carr questions are going to finally be answered in the next week or two.
 
I read the message boards pretty often and pretty much everyone in every board I read have opinions that all hinge on the result game. If we win David is a god among men, if we lose he's the biggest waste of a draft pick known man. Last week everyone played up to potential, DC included. I didn't see any "Cut Carr" post then. Why not? As of matter of fact everyone was blameing the running game prior to that game if i recall correctly. The fact is this TEAM needs to step it up in all phases. It can not be David's fault for every sack, every fumble, or every pick. Albeit his pick today was every bit his faut, short arming it. He has had his fair share of bad breaks when it comes to turnovers. More so than most NFL QB's for sure. Bad breaks that come in the form of inconsisitent pass protection, poor run blocking and horrific defense, the list goes on and on. The Texans lost todays game and no one person is directly responsible. We've seen what this offense and defense is capable of. I expect we'll see more of it in the near future.
My personal opinion is that sitting Carr was a good call, but I don't believe he turned the ball over five times. Poor excecution on the part of the line and Special Teams carry the load of responsiblity today. Therefore David should get the keys to this ride and take us to the meadowlands and let's turn in another upset.

One more note.. it could be way worse. We could have Aaron Brooks throwing in to his own empty backfield. Count your blessings.
 
South Texan said:
In all fairness, I think the Titan's D was in more of a prevent frame of mind by the time Sage got in. That said, IMO Carr looked like he was sitting on his, ummmm, laurels today. Sage looked like a decent NFL quarterback that could be a starter for a lot of teams.

I really wish Kubiak could have gotten to Carr in his first year, instead of dealing with Caper's damaged goods. I think Carr has the physical ability to be a very good QB, what he is dealing with is mental. I suspect the benching decision today was not spur of the moment, but a shock tactic Kubiak has considered for a while.

I see two possible scenarios as a result:
1. Carr is thinking "They can't do that to me, I'm David Carr!!" If this is the case, obviously Sage is our guy for at least the rest of the year.
2. Carr realizes free rides in the Kubiak regime are short lived, time to live up to the hype from when he was drafted.

I have a feeling the Carr questions are going to finally be answered in the next week or two.
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I agree. Questions will be answered. I am behind Kubes on this one. I see Carr's talent, but that is only gonna take him to the end of the season if he doesn't improve soon.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Personally, I don't think he should have been benched but obviously Kubiak didn't think Carr's head was in the game. He wanted to send a wake up call. That is the only reasoning I can come up with.
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It was reported that Kubiak told Carr at halftime that if fumbled again, he would be yanked.

Carr fumbled, and Kubiak followed through with what he said.
 
I guess I am a middle of the road guy tonight. I've seen a lot of football in my life and many situations where a starter has had a bad game an poor effort. The head coach sends in a back-up and suddenly the game turns around. Miraculously the bad team looks super and the heroic back-up brings the team back for a win. In many of these cases, when the coach decides to let johhny back-up be the starter, he never has a good game again and is soon out of the NFL. Sometimes he does well and takes the starting job.
David Carr had a bad game today. His play may have cost the team the game, but not by himself. Carr has been talented enough over the last few years to keep houston in many lost causes. He has been beat up and frankly he has been used to hurrying passes and running for his life. At the beginning of this season I would never have guessed that he would have calmed down as much as he has. the run-for-your-life mindset is going to take a little time to overcome completely. I think he has earned some time.
 
Yeah all that and blah blah blah. Betcha he starts against the Giants though. He had a bad game and Kubiak benched him, but he'll be starting next week unless he screws something up then too.
 
TheRealJoker said:
I hope Jeff Fisher can sleep tonight knowing he played a scumbag wankster that spits on women just to beat us :crying:
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If Fisher sat every scumbag on the Ttans, he wouldn't be able to field a punt team.

Look, Carr didn't lose (or is it loose, I forget?) this game by himself. But just an average performance by Carr, and the Texans could have stayed in this game and won in the 2nd half. He can't throw into quadruple coverage. He can't cough up the ball seconds before halftime. Sure, that's easy for me to say. I wasn't getting pounded by Vanden Bosch & LaBoy. I haven't been sacked 200+ times over the past 5 seasons. But Carr has to get past seeing the rush and assuming it will get him if the Texans are going to win the games they should win.

My advice to David: Hypnosis. I know, it sounds crazy. But, it can work if you believe in it. Before I went under hypnosis therapy, I would get drunk and belligerent every weekend. Now, I just get belligerent every weekend.
 
it had nothing to do with Carr VY is just so great he made Carr look like the Mediocre Qb we have had for the last five years.:bananasplit:
 
Salaam and Weigert lost the game for us. Those fumbles I blame on the line allowing the defense to get to Carr. By the middle of the second quarter, from what I saw, the tackles had done a great job of allowing the Titans D to get to Carr's head. He was seeing flashbacks of last year. Winston looked better than Salaam, who even got hit for three or so offsides penalties. Until we improve the line play, everything else is Butkus. Carr did not lose the game. The team lost the game, but if I were Sherman/Kubiak, I'd be all over those tackles. They should be running laps for that performance.
 
Did Tennessee play a different defensive scheme in the 2nd half? Some prevent maybe? Just wondering, cuz I didn't get to see it.

Note: I think prevent D is completely worthless, unless it's 3rd and very long. Score should have very little to do with whether it is used, IMO.
 
At the QB position yes. Did you see Kubiak after Carr threw into quadruple coverage? He said exactly the same thing every arm chair GM and Monday morning QB says on a weekly basis.

I saw what a 7.2 million cap hit yields with Carr and then I saw what a 1.1 million cap hit yields with Sage. Imagine what we could have done with an extra 6 million and Sage on the field this year.
 
Carr needed this, so did Sheppard, but so did AJ, he cost our team another INT. Just like a couple weeks ago when a DB took the ball from him. Sage hits him and instead of catching the ball with his hands, he lets the ball get to his body where it bounces off his shoulder. This is NOT a Great Reciever, this is a man that is hyped too much and it's time he takes blame when it is due, and it is due. The Texans played bad, but only lost by 6, and if AJ catches the ball that could have changed too. Carr was benched-good, but Saleem had 3 false starts to one on the rest of the line and he still played. Everyone on this team needs to be held to the same standards.
Williams did get a sack, Daniels looked good again, three plays lost this game. I see hope. Carr is the starter for the Giants game ( Kubiak ), and I think Carr's reaction to being benched will be telling of his caracter and ability.
 
If the Texans score a TD instead of throwing into quad coverage ... they win this game . Carr has got to LEAD on the road .

If the Titans played a different scheme for Sage its because he's not as easily confused ... he'll take shots downfield to the guy who's got man to man coverage .

The OL stunk thats a fact but it does'nt affect Sage the same way ... wonder why . I don't think what ails Carr can be cured , he's a stat guy . The stat most important stat for a QB is W-L .

If Kubiak is'nt careful Carr will be the death of him .
 
Total lack of team effort in crunch time. The Texans should have won this one, but the mistakes were costly. And yet, I still think that with better tackles the Texans would have manhandled these guys.
 
We are tired of losing to our bragging rights competition. Carr doesn't inspire. McNairs stuck with him because of his price tag. I pay to watch and I am sick of this little loser. The plays he makes are from the system. You saw that with the way Rosenfelds operated when given the chance.
 
TheRealJoker said:
I guess it was just me but I happened to see 2 of the worst performances in our O-Line's storied history turned in by Salaam and Wiegert. I also happened to see our special teams turn in a rather lackluster showing. Not to mention i've yet to see ANYONE even hint that Peek whiffed on 3 potential tackles off the top of my head, including the one where he had Vince wrapped up in the backfield and Vince shrugged him off and ran it in for a td.

There were many more mistakes but to keep my rant short...by saying Carr had a bad game today would be an understatement, but dont let the Carr haters on this board who have been waiting under their respective bridges keyboard in hand for the opportunity to crucify DC fool you into thinking Carr was the sole reason we lost this game today.

We win as a team and we lose as a team, it is a team game afterall.

PS: I hope Jeff Fisher can sleep tonight knowing he played a scumbag wankster that spits on women just to beat us :crying:
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Very well said. And Amen on Jones. I was kind of surprised that Fisher let him play myself. I know why, but it's just unfortunate that he got rewarded for being a pig. As I understand it, that was not his first time.

It would be a hard decision to make. He is a great player, and the Titans need him.
 
As one who has tried to support Carr even though my heart wasn't always into it, I have to say that his play when he fumbled the ball and the subsequent recovery and return into the EZ by the Titans DLineman for a TD
was unforgivable. With only seconds remaining in the half, a H.S. QB on the field for the Texans wouldn't make that mistake because he would realize that
first and foremost, he has to protect the ball in those circumstances right before the half.
And his pass into quadruple coverage that was intercepted was just, well really difficult to understand ? This is a 5th year NFL QB !
 
srstex said:
Carr was benched-good, but Saleem had 3 false starts to one on the rest of the line and he still played. Everyone on this team needs to be held to the same standards.
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The coaches need to take real action this time to prove that they think this season is important. Cutting another bit player like Buchanon to "send a message" isn't going to cut it. There were a lot of people that didn't play well. The Texans need to look at some serious moves to the roster or starting line-up. They shouldn't tolerate the penalties and blown assignments. Extra meetings aren't going to fix anything.
 
Runner said:
The coaches need to take real action this time to prove that they think this season is important. Cutting another bit player like Buchanon to "send a message" isn't going to cut it. There were a lot of people that didn't play well. The Texans need to look at some serious moves to the roster or starting line-up. They shouldn't tolerate the penalties and blown assignments. Extra meetings aren't going to fix anything.
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What if we started a new show ... Texans survivor ? Who would be voted off first .
 
TheRealJoker said:
There were many more mistakes but to keep my rant short...by saying Carr had a bad game today would be an understatement, :crying:
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I'm not blaming this loss on Carr.

But for the sake of discussion, what made this game a bad game as opposed to his good games?? What was different??

I don't think this game was any worse than any other game Carr has played.... except maybe the Miami game, that was a good performance by David.
 
Grid said:
But if you take away Carrs horrible performance, we win the game. You really think that Sage came in and did something spectacular? he didnt..he just made the plays that were opened to him.. and he did it with the same poor protection that Carr had. Bottom line..
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Actually, that isn't true.... when Sage came in, we were able to run one back, 4 WRs & still release Owen into the field... So Sage actually had less protection than David.
 
Grid said:
Carr was the biggest contributor to the loss.
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I disagree. Wiegert was the biggest contributor to the loss, but people watch the QB and base the entire game on a QBs performance. Vandenbosch had his way with Wiegert with four sacks and a forced fumble. Salaam's drive-killing false starts didn't help matters either.

Things never change. The backup QB is always the city's favorite player. Bucky Richardson, anyone?
 
eriadoc said:
I disagree. Wiegert was the biggest contributor to the loss, but people watch the QB and base the entire game on a QBs performance. Vandenbosch had his way with Wiegert with four sacks and a forced fumble. Salaam's drive-killing false starts didn't help matters either.

Things never change. The backup QB is always the city's favorite player. Bucky Richardson, anyone?
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I do not disagree with your observations, but what is discounted here is how the other 10 players responded (save for AJ) to another signal caller under center.
 
eriadoc said:
I disagree. Wiegert was the biggest contributor to the loss, but people watch the QB and base the entire game on a QBs performance. Vandenbosch had his way with Wiegert with four sacks and a forced fumble. Salaam's drive-killing false starts didn't help matters either.

Things never change. The backup QB is always the city's favorite player. Bucky Richardson, anyone?
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I agree. David Carr plays a lot like Bucky Richardson. Great comparison.
 
thunderkyss said:
Actually, that isn't true.... when Sage came in, we were able to run one back, 4 WRs & still release Owen into the field... So Sage actually had less protection than David.
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I didn't watch the game but on the radio this morning they basically said the same thing...

They said that Sage reads coverages better than David and is able to make decisions quicker...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I didn't watch the game but on the radio this morning they basically said the same thing...

They said that Sage reads coverages better than David and is able to make decisions quicker...
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No way. I heard it was the O-line. They don't hold the block long enough for David. He's doing something wrong. He's tipping his game. David and my boy Brad Lidge need to go on a long cruise, get really drunk in the Casino, win a ton of money and flash it around to the staff. Then take a long walk on the deck.
 
AustinJB said:
Exactly!

The line did suck, but Sage still found a way to rise above it and make plays. Interesting how the same offensive line against the same defense didn't give up a sack when Sage was in the game and scored 3 TDs, but gave up 4 sacks and no TDs with Carr in the game. Coincidence?? I think not.:cool:
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If you had actually payed attention to the Titans defense, you would have noticed that they blitzed Carr, but after gaining a large lead decided to play a little more conservatively and drop 7 into coverage and rush only 4. Unlike when Carr had 6 brought at him and had 2 seconds to throw.
 
As a Carr fan and still a Carr supporter (right now at least), it WAS Carr that lost us that game! Turnovers kill, and he coughed it up a bunch of times, one of them for a TD. I know this is a "team game", but to say that means you can't ever single a person out for a loss, which I don't agree with. I don't think you can blame the "team" for a loss when there were some obvious week links like there was Sunday. If there are 2 people that lost us that game, it was 1) Carr and 2) AJ. Actually, AJ could have won us that game, but he didn't. I guess that means he lost the game for us? Hmmmm...

Now that doesn't mean Carr shouldn't start Sunday, but he did lose that game.
 
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