Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Manny Lawson, the "other" rookie DE from NC St, outproducing Mario

N

nunusguy

Hall of Fame
Lawson already has had 2 sacks, along with 9 tackles while playing for the
49ers. I think Mario has maybe 5 or 6 tackles with zippo sacks as we all know
all too well. You may say that Lawson's NFL team, the 49ers, has had an easier schedule with the Cardinals & Rams than the openers the Texans have had to contend with in Philly & Indy.
But here's something to consider, Lawson is playing as an OLB in a 3-4 at
San Fran. As a downlineman (opposite Mario) in NC States 4-3, he's fighting a far steeper learning curve than Mario has to negotiate here in Houston.
This guy was a first rounder himself, and I had seen reports before the Draft where some said that he was the "best" DLineman at NC State, not Mario.
 
nunusguy said:
Lawson already has had 2 sacks, along with 9 tackles while playing for the
49ers. I think Mario has maybe 5 or 6 tackles with zippo sacks as we all know
all too well. You may say that Lawson's NFL team, the 49ers, has had an easier schedule with the Cardinals & Rams than the openers the Texans have had to contend with in Philly & Indy.
But here's something to consider, Lawson is playing as an OLB in a 3-4 at
San Fran. As a downlineman (opposite Mario) in NC States 4-3, he's fighting a far steeper learning curve than Mario has to negotiate here in Houston.
This guy was a first rounder himself, and I had seen reports before the Draft where some said that he was the "best" DLineman at NC State, not Mario.
Click to expand...

Mario has really got to step it up..he is stuck on blocks..he has only put his hands on a QB about 7 times out of 70+ plays...I am really hoping he plays well this seaon. With the right technique and the right DL coach he could be a real force. As for Lawson being the best at NCst, heard it right..he was the force that set up everything Mario did....just check out old clips of NCst.
 
nunusguy said:
Lawson already has had 2 sacks, along with 9 tackles while playing for the
49ers. I think Mario has maybe 5 or 6 tackles with zippo sacks as we all know
all too well. You may say that Lawson's NFL team, the 49ers, has had an easier schedule with the Cardinals & Rams than the openers the Texans have had to contend with in Philly & Indy.
But here's something to consider, Lawson is playing as an OLB in a 3-4 at
San Fran. As a downlineman (opposite Mario) in NC States 4-3, he's fighting a far steeper learning curve than Mario has to negotiate here in Houston.
This guy was a first rounder himself, and I had seen reports before the Draft where some said that he was the "best" DLineman at NC State, not Mario.
Click to expand...


You're going to get the "linebackers are supposed to rack up tackles" rebuttal
 
Rosewood said:
Mario has really got to step it up..he is stuck on blocks..he has only put his hands on a QB about 7 times out of 70+ plays...I am really hoping he plays well this seaon. With the right technique and the right DL coach he could be a real force. As for Lawson being the best at NCst, heard it right..he was the force that set up everything Mario did....just check out old clips of NCst.
Click to expand...

What about the clips where he said teams were afraid to run to Mario's side which helped him make more plays...are we to disregard that ?
 
Honch Delgado said:
You're going to get the "linebackers are supposed to rack up tackles" rebuttal
Click to expand...

Well Technically DeMeco is killing Lawson in tackles...Maybe we should have drafted Meco with our #1...:rolleyes:

When was the last time YOU saw a DLineman lead the leauge in tackles ?

I won't lie...the two sacks are impressive...but 9 tackles after two games comes to 4.5 tackles a game....Hardly.....Newsworthy....
 
Rosewood said:
That Mario needs to step his game up......
Click to expand...

really ? I could've sworn there were other threads dedicated to that....

But since you weren't the one to make the post I'll charge your response to the game....
 
nunusguy said:
Lawson already has had 2 sacks, along with 9 tackles while playing for the
49ers. I think Mario has maybe 5 or 6 tackles with zippo sacks as we all know
all too well. You may say that Lawson's NFL team, the 49ers, has had an easier schedule with the Cardinals & Rams than the openers the Texans have had to contend with in Philly & Indy.
But here's something to consider, Lawson is playing as an OLB in a 3-4 at
San Fran. As a downlineman (opposite Mario) in NC States 4-3, he's fighting a far steeper learning curve than Mario has to negotiate here in Houston.
This guy was a first rounder himself, and I had seen reports before the Draft where some said that he was the "best" DLineman at NC State, not Mario.
Click to expand...

doesn't hurt that he's on a team that has 6 sacks over the last two games....

Bryant Young, 9 tackles, 2 sacks......
Marques Douglas... 7 tackles 1 sack......
Brandon Moore, 6 tackles, 1 sack.....

He looks just like what we, and every other NFL team thought he was going to be. A great addition to a talented team.

Mario is supposed to be the Cornerstone that Bryant Young & Douglas is on that team, that allows less talented players like Manny to have big games....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
really ? I could've sworn there were other threads dedicated to that....

But since you weren't the one to make the post I'll charge your response to the game....
Click to expand...

I dont know anything about the other threads, just this one. I agree with the thread starter...Mario is playing like crap with Lawson is playing like a superrookie...charge it to the game or whatever you want but that boy is playing like crap...it could be coaching or it could just be him...i dont know..
 
I tire of all the Reggie Bush statistics at NOLA in comparison to what Mario has (or hasn't done) here in Houston. Apples and Oranges.
But as most of you know, an OLB in a 3-4 is comparable in many ways to a DE in the 4-3. There certainly are differences, but there's similarities too. And one similarity is that each is the edge rusher(s) in the 2 systems.
And it seemed like it would be relavant, maybe even instructive to consider the statistics/production of the these 2 rookies who played the same position at the same time at the same college.
 
thunderkyss said:
doesn't hurt that he's on a team that has 6 sacks over the last two games....

Bryant Young, 9 tackles, 2 sacks......
Marques Douglas... 7 tackles 1 sack......
Brandon Moore, 6 tackles, 1 sack.....

He looks just like what we, and every other NFL team thought he was going to be. A great addition to a talented team.

Mario is supposed to be the Cornerstone that Bryant Young & Douglas is on that team, that allows less talented players like Manny to have big games....
Click to expand...

it was the other way around at NCst...Lawson was the force that allowed Mario to shine...
 
Rosewood said:
I dont know anything about the other threads, just this one. I agree with the thread starter...Mario is playing like crap with Lawson is playing like a superrookie...charge it to the game or whatever you want but that boy is playing like crap...it could be coaching or it could just be him...i dont know..
Click to expand...

I can tell that you haven't re-watched the game....I'll be honest...when I re-watched the game film I thought to myself...Mario is a beast...I think when you are watching the game, and you don't see him making a lot of plays it's easy to say..he sucks...he's garbage...BUT...I challenge anyone who knows anything about football to re-watch the game film fousing specifically on Mario and tell me he sucks...Dude hasn't made a bunch of plays yet, but that will come with improved performances from his teamates....He may not be sacking the he!! out of McNabb and Manning(two of the best QB's on two of the best teams in the leauge) BUT, you just sound foolish when you say "he's playing like crap"...he's not....
 
nunusguy said:
I tire of all the Reggie Bush statistics at NOLA in comparison to what Mario has (or hasn't done) here in Houston. Apples and Oranges.
But as most of you know, an OLB in a 3-4 is comparable in many ways to a DE in the 4-3. There certainly are differences, but there's similarities too. And one similarity is that each is the edge rusher(s) in the 2 systems.
And it seemed like it would be relavant, maybe even instructive to consider the statistics/production of the these 2 rookies who played the same position at the same time at the same college.
Click to expand...

What does one players stats have to do with how good or bad another player is??? I don't care if they played right next to eachother...Stats don't determine a players talent...That would mean Meco is a better MLB than Ray Lewis, Zach Thomas...I don't even have to name anymore...That would mean D.Carr is darn near the best QB in the leauge.....Lets talk football...If you want to talk numbers save it for an accountant...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I can tell that you haven't re-watched the game....I'll be honest...when I re-watched the game film I thought to myself...Mario is a beast...I think when you are watching the game, and you don't see him making a lot of plays it's easy to say..he sucks...he's garbage...BUT...I challenge anyone who knows anything about football to re-watch the game film fousing specifically on Mario and tell me he sucks...Dude hasn't made a bunch of plays yet, but that will come with improved performances from his teamates....He may not be sacking the he!! out of McNabb and Manning(two of the best QB's on two of the best teams in the leauge) BUT, you just sound foolish when you say "he's playing like crap"...he's not....
Click to expand...

I watched my first HoustonTexans game at Reliant on openingday. I was syked about this season, just like many fans. a big part of that was Kubiak, and a big part of that was Mario.

At the end of the game, I was like...... hmpf......

Then I've got a 1.5 hour drive home, so I'm listening to 610,and all these guys talking about how Mario Sucked. The Host was like, "don't give me this he was doubled crap, he wasn't doubled"

So by the time I got home, I was furious, and disappointed in Mario.

Then I broke out my Tivo the following Monday.

I missed the first Monday Night football game, because I was rewatching that game....

& you're right, Mario is a beast..... his speed, is all that...... his power is the bag of chips....

Now, if Kubiak can harness all that, and focus it on the QB, there's no doubt that he will be everything we think he might be.

I only wish we had a Strahan, or a Reggie White, Bruce Smith kinda guy to mentor him..... heck, I'd take Joe Johnson, or JohnRandle... Kevin Carter....

I mean....... we've got Kalu??
 
nunusguy said:
Lawson already has had 2 sacks, along with 9 tackles while playing for the
49ers. I think Mario has maybe 5 or 6 tackles with zippo sacks as we all know
all too well. You may say that Lawson's NFL team, the 49ers, has had an easier schedule with the Cardinals & Rams than the openers the Texans have had to contend with in Philly & Indy.
But here's something to consider, Lawson is playing as an OLB in a 3-4 at
San Fran. As a downlineman (opposite Mario) in NC States 4-3, he's fighting a far steeper learning curve than Mario has to negotiate here in Houston.
This guy was a first rounder himself, and I had seen reports before the Draft where some said that he was the "best" DLineman at NC State, not Mario.
Click to expand...

Agree lawson is talented but he is playing linebacker and is really no different than the 2 guys we already have in Babin and PEEK who played OLB last season. We will see who the better and more versatile player is in about 2 seasons.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I can tell that you haven't re-watched the game....I'll be honest...when I re-watched the game film I thought to myself...Mario is a beast...I think when you are watching the game, and you don't see him making a lot of plays it's easy to say..he sucks...he's garbage...BUT...I challenge anyone who knows anything about football to re-watch the game film fousing specifically on Mario and tell me he sucks...Dude hasn't made a bunch of plays yet, but that will come with improved performances from his teamates....He may not be sacking the he!! out of McNabb and Manning(two of the best QB's on two of the best teams in the leauge) BUT, you just sound foolish when you say "he's playing like crap"...he's not....
Click to expand...

Cool, you watched the game again.
 
nunusguy said:
Lawson already has had 2 sacks, along with 9 tackles while playing for the 49ers. I think Mario has maybe 5 or 6 tackles with zippo sacks as we all know all too well.
Click to expand...

Lawson doesn't get enough credit for Mario's success. I wonder how good Mario would have been without the huge mismatches Lawson created every week.

Imagine having two NFL quality players (first round quality) on the same defense playing against the likes of Wake Forest. It must have been like taking candy from a baby.
 
Erratic Assassin said:
Imagine having two NFL quality players (first round quality) on the same defense playing against the likes of Wake Forest. It must have been like taking candy from a baby.
Click to expand...
Actually three NFL first rounders. John McFargo,DT at NC State, was taken at
26 overall by the Bills in the 2006 college Draft. Makes it dicey to accurately
determine who may have been carrying who, who was really the stud(s) in that DLine NC State had last Fall ?
Everyone is going nuts about what a specimen Mario is, sorta like at the Indy combine. But where's the production ?
 
Erratic Assassin said:
Lawson doesn't get enough credit for Mario's success. I wonder how good Mario would have been without the huge mismatches Lawson created every week.

Imagine having two NFL quality players (first round quality) on the same defense playing against the likes of Wake Forest. It must have been like taking candy from a baby.
Click to expand...

That's kinda like Saying Reggie owes all his success to Lendale White......

or better yet, Lendale, Jarrett, and Lienart....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Well Technically DeMeco is killing Lawson in tackles...Maybe we should have drafted Meco with our #1...:rolleyes:

When was the last time YOU saw a DLineman lead the leauge in tackles ?

I won't lie...the two sacks are impressive...but 9 tackles after two games comes to 4.5 tackles a game....Hardly.....Newsworthy....
Click to expand...
Well actually OLB's in the 3-4 don't put up a lot of tackles anyway. They usually just force the run inside and the ILB's get the tackles. Look around the league, you'll see they don't record many tackles. For example, one of the best 3-4 OLB's Shawne Merrimen only recorded 57, and another great Joey Porter only put up 56 tackles.

Anyway, Lawson and Williams were both AWESOME prospects coming of college and i really am suprised Lawson fell all the way to #22, which i think was a steal. Another thing i want to add, Lawson and Williams both bring different things to the table and were no doubt 1st round talent. But if you want to talk about someone who really benefited from another, it is John McCargo IMO. I think he just got into the 1st round by having played alongside the best DE's in the nation.

BTW, just wanted to add he had a really nice TFL on Steven Jackson as well.
You can see the plays he made plus other highlights here
 
SF49erFaithful said:
Well actually OLB's in the 3-4 don't put up a lot of tackles anyway. They usually just force the run inside and the ILB's get the tackles. Look around the league, you'll see they don't record many tackles. For example, one of the best 3-4 OLB's Shawne Merrimen only recorded 57, and another great Jerry Porter only put up 56 tackles.
Click to expand...

That's understood. It's also understood that OLBs are often dropped into coverage, and there fore have opportunities to make tackles in the passing game as well as the run game....
 
SF49erFaithful said:
Well actually OLB's in the 3-4 don't put up a lot of tackles anyway. They usually just force the run inside and the ILB's get the tackles. Look around the league, you'll see they don't record many tackles. For example, one of the best 3-4 OLB's Shawne Merrimen only recorded 57, and another great Jerry Porter only put up 56 tackles.
Click to expand...

Maybe you missed my point.....MLB's>OLB's.....OLB's>DE's.....all day every day....do you get it now ?...No??......MLB's may make more tackles than OLB's but we are comparing an OLB to a DE.....next
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I can tell that you haven't re-watched the game....I'll be honest...when I re-watched the game film I thought to myself...Mario is a beast...I think when you are watching the game, and you don't see him making a lot of plays it's easy to say..he sucks...he's garbage...BUT...I challenge anyone who knows anything about football to re-watch the game film fousing specifically on Mario and tell me he sucks...Dude hasn't made a bunch of plays yet, but that will come with improved performances from his teamates....He may not be sacking the he!! out of McNabb and Manning(two of the best QB's on two of the best teams in the leauge) BUT, you just sound foolish when you say "he's playing like crap"...he's not....
Click to expand...


I think you make a good point here....if somebody wants to use numbers as a gauge for Mario's progress, then they'll be sorely disappointed.

And wasting their time. Numbers don't tell the story here.
 
SF49erFaithful said:
For example, one of the best 3-4 OLB's Shawne Merrimen only recorded 57, and another great Jerry Porter only put up 56 tackles.
Click to expand...

Just an FYI--Merriman didn't start until week 7 and I think you mean Joey Porter (who drops into coverage quite a bit) instead of WR Jerry.
 
infantrycak said:
Just an FYI--Merriman didn't start until week 7 and I think you mean Joey Porter (who drops into coverage quite a bit) instead of WR Jerry.
Click to expand...

Thanks for catching that, i didn't notice i wrote that instead of Joey.

As for Merrimen, still it doesn't really matter he didn't start. LB's in the 3-4 rotate heavily so even if you aren't a starter you still see plenty of time on the field.
 
thunderkyss said:
That's understood. It's also understood that OLBs are often dropped into coverage, and there fore have opportunities to make tackles in the passing game as well as the run game....
Click to expand...

MLBs/ILBs drop into coverage too. Besides, when OLBs drop into coverage they are usually the underneath guy so a lot of times whoever is over the top (usually a CB or S) will get the tackle.
 
SF49erFaithful said:
MLBs/ILBs drop into coverage too. Besides, when OLBs drop into coverage they are usually the underneath guy so a lot of times whoever is over the top (usually a CB or S) will get the tackle.
Click to expand...

FYI--Texans' fans have been watching a 3-4 for 4 years now. For the most part, we understand.
 
Battle Red Bull said:
I think you make a good point here....if somebody wants to use numbers as a gauge for Mario's progress, then they'll be sorely disappointed.

And wasting their time. Numbers don't tell the story here.
Click to expand...

Quantifying what numbers might mean in relationship to other players is difficult in a team game, but the end result is the sum of their parts. and all of our guys are 0-2.
 
Against the Philladelphia Eagles,

Mario had 2 tackles, plus 1 assist..... 2.5 tackles.
Manny Lawson had...... 0 tackles...... .5 assists... 0.5 tackles.

Eagles 38 49ers 24
Eagles 24 Houston 14

McNabb vs the 49ers....... 296 yards 2 TDs 0 Ints
McNabb vs the Texans..... 314 yards 3 TDs 1 Int

Westbrook vs the 49ers.... 8 atts.... 117 yds...... 2 Tds 71 Long Rushing....... 4 catches 47 yards..... 1 TD 27 Long recieving...
Westbrook vs the Texans.... 17 carries 71 yds...... 0 TDs long 17 rushing.... 4 catches 61 yds 1 TD 31 long recieving.

RBrown vs the 49ers...... 5 catches for 106 yds.. 0 TDs 50 long.....
RBrown vs the Texans.... 2 catches for 20 yds.... 1 TD 15 long.....

Stallworth vs the Texans....... 6 catches... 141 yds..... 1 TD long 42.....

Eagles vs 49ers...... 416 total yards..... 150 rushing... 266 passing sacked 3 times for 30 yards 0 ints

Eagles vs the Texans.... 441 total yards... 130 rushing... 311 passing sacked 1 time for 3 yards... 1 pass intercepted.

Just a bunch of stats.... to me, looks like Mario had more of an impact against the Eagles than Manny Lawson did. Even though he was moved between LDE, RDE, & DT.
 
Works both ways..... people are saying Lawson is playing better because he has two sacks.......

they don't take into account that 3 of the 5 players on Sf's defensive front has 2 sacks...... or that Everybody is sacking KurtWarner...... 3 games into the season, & they are talking about starting a rookie QB.
 
thunderkyss said:
Works both ways..... people are saying Lawson is playing better because he has two sacks.......

they don't take into account that 3 of the 5 players on Sf's defensive front has 2 sacks...... or that Everybody is sacking KurtWarner...... 3 games into the season, & they are talking about starting a rookie QB.
Click to expand...

Thats true...If you aren't watching both players then you can't really come to a conclusion based on stats.....And besides that...Mario and
Manny don't play the same position and aren't even similar type players...Manny may be a good player, but he doesn't have the upside and shut down potential that Mario has...If Mario ever figures it out he's capable of shutting down his side of the field....
 
SF49erFaithful said:
Money Lawson blocked a punt today.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. well we drafted the leading canadate for Defensive Rookie of the Year in the 2nd round - Demeco Ryans.

That is where you are going with all of these posts right.
You want to us to think that Manny is better than Mario? Trying to make us feel regret? Trying to make you feel great?

Not working. We are happy with our guy. We don't run a 3-4 and Manny isn't right for our system. If he works out for you guys great.

Well I can't believe you guys passed on Demeco Ryans. What a dumb move. (Good for the Goose)
 
wicked_wayz said:
how bout that tamba ali guy????? i think hes got more sacks than mario....
Click to expand...

It's actually Kali, but that's besides the point. Hali is a different type of player than Mario. Hali is more of a speed rusher type like a Jason Taylor.

It's funny to me how everyone is downing Marios play and that he only has 1.5 sacks. But look at the teams we've played so far and the lines he's had to go up against. Also pepole don't take into consideration how many times he's made a RB change direction or strung a play out so someone else can make the play. True he's gottn blown up a time or two but he's a rookie. He's jus earning his stripes. Jus wait until next year, this kid is gonna be monster.
 
Dionysus22 said:
It's actually Kali, but that's besides the point. Hali is a different type of player than Mario. Hali is more of a speed rusher type like a Jason Taylor.

It's funny to me how everyone is downing Marios play and that he only has 1.5 sacks. But look at the teams we've played so far and the lines he's had to go up against. Also pepole don't take into consideration how many times he's made a RB change direction or strung a play out so someone else can make the play. True he's gottn blown up a time or two but he's a rookie. He's jus earning his stripes. Jus wait until next year, this kid is gonna be monster.
Click to expand...

i thought mario was quicker than hali?????....... as stated in the combine

but yeah i agree with you.......im all for mario.....i believe the 1st sack is what he really needed, and now hes got a taste of it im sure there will plenty more to come:yahoo:
 
Dionysus22 said:
It's actually Kali, but that's besides the point. Hali is a different type of player than Mario. Hali is more of a speed rusher type like a Jason Taylor.
Click to expand...
Just as the Admn is modifying its reasons for invading Iraq after the fact, the Texans are modifying their reasons for drafting Mario after the Draft.
Origionally, Kubiak and the owner said they wanted an edge rusher to put presser on Manning and other opposing QBs, and quite frankly the Chiefs DE
is more like the fast twitch Jason Taylor. Lately, they don't say much about
Mario as an edge rusher.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top