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The official start Jason Babin and Drew Hodgdon thread

El Tejano

El Tejano

Hall of Fame
I want Babin to start because IMO he has earned it. Two games in and he has gotten closer to the QB than anyone on the team.

I feel that with Babin starting, a very hungry Peek comes off the bench and plays like he has something to prove.

I also want Hodgdon to play center because he is a real center and not a guard playing center. I think if we put Mckinney at center we might as well put DC on IR because that pass rush is going to come through the middle with a passion.
 
I thought Drew looked good when he got to play before getting injured last year, and I'd like to see him get another shot if Flanagan can't go.
 
El Tejano said:
I think if we put Mckinney at center we might as well put DC on IR because that pass rush is going to come through the middle with a passion.
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He won't be any worse than Flannagan...
 
At this point in time, center is really not that much of an area of concern. I'm seriously worried about Salaam at LT. I've heard nothing good about him playing LT. If he doesn't prove me wrong, you Carr bashers might not have to worry anymore.:brickwall
 
So here is our starting potential Dl
Babin - DE
Peek - DE
Weaver - DE/DT
Williams - DE
Payne - DT
Johnson - DT

I don't see why that can't be a pretty good rotation?
 
From what I understand though, Salaam played way better in Denver under the system and this year Kubiak wanted to get his boys in as rookies to get them going and that way the rebuilding process could be sped up a little.

I'm willing to wait and see what Salaam can do here before I hear what he did in Jville.

Will he be a wall, I don't think so but he could be a guy that picks up where Spencer left off.
 
I noticed Babin all over the field Sunday. I saw him playing what looked like a traditional "elephant" linebacker. An elephant is a hybrid player that gives you a 4 linebacker look or a 4 lineman look depending on the call. I think he may evolve to being used like how the Patriots used Willie McGinest as an elephant and it was easy to shift in and out of 4 and 3 man looks when he was with them.
 
El Tejano said:
From what I understand though, Salaam played way better in Denver under the system and this year Kubiak wanted to get his boys in as rookies to get them going and that way the rebuilding process could be sped up a little.

I'm willing to wait and see what Salaam can do here before I hear what he did in Jville.

Will he be a wall, I don't think so but he could be a guy that picks up where Spencer left off.
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I also think that Salaam won't look like the player that he was in Jacksonville. I don't know that he'll have us all wanting him to start but I think he'll look better than the Jags fans would have us believe. Denver looks for different things in their linemen than most teams so I could see him being productive in our offense.

We should know better than anyone how this works. You take a guy from one system and put him in another that doesn't suit his skills and he becomes a bum. Todd Wade for instance is coming to town with the Redskins but he got sent packing here. Before signing with us he was a solid starting RT in this league. He was a good fit in Miami and bad fit here. Ron Dayne seems to be productive in the Denver scheme but in New York he was a bust.
 
Vinny said:
I noticed Babin all over the field Sunday. I saw him playing what looked like a traditional "elephant" linebacker. An elephant is a hybrid player that gives you a 4 linebacker look or a 4 lineman look depending on the call. I think he may evolve to being used like how the Patriots used Willie McGinest as an elephant and it was easy to shift in and out of 4 and 3 man looks when he was with them.
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hmm. I thought you were talking about that Gut Babin is sporting.

But we used Charlie Anderson the same way in the preseason........

But anywho...... I do believe Babin is our best DE right now...... not only getting after the QB, but chasing down the play, regardless where it is on the field.... he just doesn't stop.

But anyway, I believe Babin started against the Colts, and took more snaps than any othe lineman.
 
From the time Babin came back from his shoulder injury/benching last season through the first two games this season, I like what Babin has done. The guy has always had a motor, but the mental part of LB evidently messed with him that early in his career. As long as he continues putting forth this kind of effort, I am fully behind him being the undisputed starter.

I know for sure I am seeing way too much of #96 Thomas Johnson. Travis has shown improvement, however.
 
Hervoyel said:
I also think that Salaam won't look like the player that he was in Jacksonville. I don't know that he'll have us all wanting him to start but I think he'll look better than the Jags fans would have us believe. Denver looks for different things in their linemen than most teams so I could see him being productive in our offense.

We should know better than anyone how this works. You take a guy from one system and put him in another that doesn't suit his skills and he becomes a bum. Todd Wade for instance is coming to town with the Redskins but he got sent packing here. Before signing with us he was a solid starting RT in this league. He was a good fit in Miami and bad fit here. Ron Dayne seems to be productive in the Denver scheme but in New York he was a bust.
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Problem is, that right now we are more GreenBay than Denver....... maybe that would change, with Salaam at LT........
 
Vinny said:
I noticed Babin all over the field Sunday. I saw him playing what looked like a traditional "elephant" linebacker. An elephant is a hybrid player that gives you a 4 linebacker look or a 4 lineman look depending on the call. I think he may evolve to being used like how the Patriots used Willie McGinest as an elephant and it was easy to shift in and out of 4 and 3 man looks when he was with them.
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Vinny, if you or anyone else doesn't mind, could someone just give me a quick rundown on Babin's performance against the Colts? I missed almost the entire game.
 
I didn't get to see the sack but I heard it was a pretty good one on Manning.

To be honest, I can't recall any of our lineman getting a real good piece of Manning in our short existence.

I just want the guy that has been showing stuff to play. Kubiak said he would do that and I think this is one of those kind of choices.
 
texan279 said:
Vinny, if you or anyone else doesn't mind, could someone just give me a quick rundown on Babin's performance against the Colts? I missed almost the entire game.
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I was at the game in person, and from what I saw Babin did nothing spectacular. He had one great play where he got the sack. Many other plays he was either being pancaked or was out of position. The first half they ran at him the entire time and he didnt make a tackle on any of those plays. He has potential but he still has not shown it in my opinion. He was not really all over the place until after the tackle was made by someone else. To me the Dline looked pretty bad this week all across the board. Weaver finally had a few plays, but that was from DT since they played the nickle the whole game. Mario to me still isnt showing his speed potential. Peek pulled a groin so he didnt play the second half but in quarter two he had three great plays in a row (a qb hit, would be sack but they called a hold on his man, and then he had a tackle). He still also has a lot to show this season.
 
Cincinnatikid said:
I was at the game in person, and from what I saw Babin did nothing spectacular. He had one great play where he got the sack. Many other plays he was either being pancaked or was out of position. The first half they ran at him the entire time and he didnt make a tackle on any of those plays. He has potential but he still has not shown it in my opinion. He was not really all over the place until after the tackle was made by someone else. To me the Dline looked pretty bad this week all across the board. Weaver finally had a few plays, but that was from DT since they played the nickle the whole game. Mario to me still isnt showing his speed potential. Peek pulled a groin so he didnt play the second half but in quarter two he had three great plays in a row (a qb hit, would be sack but they called a hold on his man, and then he had a tackle). He still also has a lot to show this season.
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Well, I am pretty sure that your avatar shows who you support more, anyways.

I think Babin has done more to show what he can do by being versatile (i.e. "elephant" linebacker as Vinny said) while Peek is just a situational player as in being a pass rusher. I don't think Peek could tackle a running back unless the back ran straight into him. Babin is a little more well rounded, meaning he can rush the passer and stop the run.
 
Yeah, I know... what's up with that? It seems like Putzier makes the tough catch whenever Dave (Carr) throws to him.... Maybe we need to talk to Carr about Putzier. (This is not a hate Carr post; I just want the Putz to do well.)
 
66cobra said:
Well, I am pretty sure that your avatar shows who you support more, anyways.

I think Babin has done more to show what he can do by being versatile (i.e. "elephant" linebacker as Vinny said) while Peek is just a situational player as in being a pass rusher. I don't think Peek could tackle a running back unless the back ran straight into him. Babin is a little more well rounded, meaning he can rush the passer and stop the run.
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Im pretty sure I said that they both need to improve and that they both have potential. Maybe i mixed up my own words but im pretty sure thats what i said. So far I do not think either of them have played particularly well. Peek is for sure a pass rusher, but I do not think that Babin has "shown" so far that he is superior in other facets of the game. If you watch the first half of the Colts game he got dominated in the run game. I do not think my avitar had anything to do with any of those comments.
 
I think that Babin has earned a spot on the field full time as well. He has shown his motor and determination to get after the opposing offense, time and time again, even when it's not effective. As far as Drew goes, I think it's worth a shot I guess. I know Flannigan has experience and I think that he and Carr will be fine with a little more time though. The guy has played with Favre and did just fine up north so I don't see any reason why he won't be able to perform well here. :twocents:
 
I don't like that elephantLinbaker thing..... keep him with a hand on the ground. I saw several plays, where he'd get off the ball with his speed, or blow up the bigger linemen with a power... benchpress move.

Nothing against Peek, but I think Babin gets off blocks better to stop the run.

True enough they ran the ball to Babin's side......

&, I think if we play exactly the way we played (on DL) against any other team....... save maybe NewEngland, we'd have a dozen sacks as a team already.
 
Cincinnatikid said:
Im pretty sure I said that they both need to improve and that they both have potential. Maybe i mixed up my own words but im pretty sure thats what i said. So far I do not think either of them have played particularly well. Peek is for sure a pass rusher, but I do not think that Babin has "shown" so far that he is superior in other facets of the game. If you watch the first half of the Colts game he got dominated in the run game. I do not think my avitar had anything to do with any of those comments.
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Does Peek even have a tackle yet this year?
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't like that elephantLinbaker thing.
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Get used to it because teams use a ton of linebacker/de zones to combat the wco's across the league. Babin is fast enough to pull it off.
 
Cincinnatikid said:
Im pretty sure I said that they both need to improve and that they both have potential. Maybe i mixed up my own words but im pretty sure thats what i said. So far I do not think either of them have played particularly well. Peek is for sure a pass rusher, but I do not think that Babin has "shown" so far that he is superior in other facets of the game. If you watch the first half of the Colts game he got dominated in the run game. I do not think my avitar had anything to do with any of those comments.
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Well, therein may lie the problem, I didn't get to watch the game that much due to it being my birthday and when I did get to watch the defense, I almost couldn't watch because our secondary was getting bombed like it was Pearl Harbor all over again by the land of the Rising Horseshoes.
 
Vinny said:
Get used to it because teams use a ton of linebacker/de zones to combat the wco's across the league. Babin is fast enough to pull it off.
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And IMO there is nothing wrong at all with a guy who can be a success at being a versatile player. Teams like New England carry several of those types of guys on their rosters.
 
I saw Babin lining up at linebacker whenever the Colts used a hurry up system. When the play clock would wind down, he would then shift into a DE position. Basically, it seemed like they wanted to give Manning a different look at the beginning of the play clock and in the end. Obviously, it didn't really matter in the end.
 
Vinny said:
Does Peek even have a tackle yet this year?
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Once again, I said they both have not shown much so far this season. I pointed out that despite what some say, I have not seen much from Babin, nor from Peek. Neither has shown much against the run game, and they both have gotten some pressure but not enough.
 
Cincinnatikid said:
Once again, I said they both have not shown much so far this season. I pointed out that despite what some say, I have not seen much from Babin, nor from Peek. Neither has shown much against the run game, and they both have gotten some pressure but not enough.
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I think the jury is still out on Babin but at least he is flashing some ability and versatility. Peek may never be anything more than a special teamer and specialist.
 
Vinny said:
I think the jury is still out on Babin but at least he is flashing some ability and versatility. Peek may never be anything more than a special teamer and specialist.
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I would say agree to disagree, but I dont see any arguement or disagreement from me on anything? I have said nothing but neither has shown their abilities so far this season.
 
Vinny said:
I think the jury is still out on Babin but at least he is flashing some ability and versatility. Peek may never be anything more than a special teamer and specialist.
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That's kind of what I am starting to think. We need to remember that this kid has been given several opportunities to produce and that goes all the way back to last year.

He pretty much played in front of Babin and hardly had anything to show for it. Babin comes in late in the season and starts putting on a pretty good display of rush the passer and that is continuing into this season.
 
Vinny said:
Does Peek even have a tackle yet this year?
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In answer to your question, good sir,

Peek = 1 tackle (0 solo, 1 assist)

Babin = 3 tackles (2 solo, 1 assist, 1 sack)

per the Houston Texans website stat page
 
I don't know that Peek will ever be an everydown DE. I think he's still good as a pass rush "specialist." Let's not forget we've only seen them against Manning and McNabb at this point, both of which play behind excellent O-lines and are adept at getting rid of the ball before the rush gets to them.
 
thunderkyss said:
hmm. I thought you were talking about that Gut Babin is sporting.

But we used Charlie Anderson the same way in the preseason........

But anywho...... I do believe Babin is our best DE right now...... not only getting after the QB, but chasing down the play, regardless where it is on the field.... he just doesn't stop.

But anyway, I believe Babin started against the Colts, and took more snaps than any othe lineman.
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Tkyss... I was going to use that avatar for Titans games! You totally ruined my surprise....
 
66cobra said:
In answer to your question, good sir,

Peek = 1 tackle (0 solo, 1 assist)

Babin = 3 tackles (2 solo, 1 assist, 1 sack)

per the Houston Texans website stat page
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The stats are irrelevant since Peek has played the majority of his plays against the pass, so its tough for a dlineman to get tackles. Babin should have more tackles if he is playing against the run more often. You can't always use stats to make fair comparisons
 
El Tejano said:
I didn't get to see the sack but I heard it was a pretty good one on Manning.

To be honest, I can't recall any of our lineman getting a real good piece of Manning in our short existence.

I just want the guy that has been showing stuff to play. Kubiak said he would do that and I think this is one of those kind of choices.
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The only Texan I've seen really get a hold of Manning was DRob his rookie season, had two sacks with 2 FF. I know he's not a lineman, but WOW. His hits were HUGE.
 
I have just about 0 experience on what it's like to play DL in the NFL, but why can't Mario just Pass-rush from the DT position on 3rd and long? Honestly, we can't afford to bench either Peek or Babin on 3rd and long just so Mario can get some experience at DE. On obvious passing downs, can't we just stick him in at DT and tell him to go get the QB? I don't understand how that's going to hurt his development process. Plus, we'll get a better pass rush with Peek and Babin in.

I could see how making him a DT in various situation could hurt him as a DE, but if you just stick him at DT and say "hey, all you need to do is go get the QB on this play", I think it would really help us out. All I know is that on obvious passing downs, Peek and Babin both need to be out there on the field. And Benching Mario on obvious passing downs isn't really good for him either. I could be totally out of line here but it just makes sense to me that way.
 
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