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Mario: The Truth

michaelm

michaelm

vox nihili
Preface
I want to make it clear that this post is in no way an indictment of Mario Williams.
What we have seen from him so far is a little bit of training camp, and a single preseason game.
I am fully on the Mario bandwagon. I fully expect him to be dominant for years, long after Mr. Bush is out of the league (I hate to keep bringing these two up in the same post/thread, but someone will, it is inevitable, so I did it myself).

Again... I like Mario Williams, and think he will be an all pro very soon.

Statement
Although it has been stated many times in many threads on these boards, I'd like to correct a misconception.
Mario was not double teamed all game against KC.
Some of you have pointed this out already, and i'm not trying to steal your thunder. I just think that this deserved it's own thread, because so many people have taken that stance, based most likely on what they've read in previous posts.

I have watched the tapes, repeatedly.
There are two plays that I have seen where the initial blocker had help for a second or two, but there was no wholesale gameplanning to deal with Mario.
In fact, I saw Tony Gonzales stop him one on one on two seperate occasions.
Mario looked like a rookie, I'm sorry to say. Yes, he did seem to have an effect that allowed the other DLinemen to be more productive. Yes, He did show some pretty good upfield push. He showed good speed and movement.
He still looked like a rookie.
I know that this thread will draw alot of fire. Anyone who's familiar with my previous threads will agree that I am not saying these things to be incindiary, to be provacative, or to dog Mario.
This is just what I see, and wanted to displell the myth...
I don't want this to turn into a 'why didn't we take Reggie' thread.
That is so old and played out it's pityful.
I just want to put the truth out there.
Lets stop creating unrealistic expectations for all of these rookies. They will all progress at their own rates.
Mario will be fine, I'm sure of it. It's just that it is incorrect to say that he was double teamed all game long like many members have taken to saying.

There it is... fire away.
 
michaelm said:
Preface
I want to make it clear that this post is in no way an indictment of Mario Williams.
What we have seen from him so far is a little bit of training camp, and a single preseason game.
I am fully on the Mario bandwagon. I fully expect him to be dominant for years, long after Mr. Bush is out of the league (I hate to keep bringing these two up in the same post/thread, but someone will, it is inevitable, so I did it myself).

Again... I like Mario Williams, and think he will be an all pro very soon.

Statement
Although it has been stated many times in many threads on these boards, I'd like to correct a misconception.
Mario was not double teamed all game against KC.
Some of you have pointed this out already, and i'm not trying to steal your thunder. I just think that this deserved it's own thread, because so many people have taken that stance, based most likely on what they've read in previous posts.

I have watched the tapes, repeatedly.
There are two plays that I have seen where the initial blocker had help for a second or two, but there was no wholesale gameplanning to deal with Mario.
In fact, I saw Tony Gonzales stop him one on one on two seperate occasions.
Mario looked like a rookie, I'm sorry to say. Yes, he did seem to have an effect that allowed the other DLinemen to be more productive. Yes, He did show some pretty good upfield push. He showed good speed and movement.
He still looked like a rookie.
I know that this thread will draw alot of fire. Anyone who's familiar with my previous threads will agree that I am not saying these things to be incindiary, to be provacative, or to dog Mario.
This is just what I see, and wanted to displell the myth...
I don't want this to turn into a 'why didn't we take Reggie' thread.
That is so old and played out it's pityful.
I just want to put the truth out there.
Lets stop creating unrealistic expectations for all of these rookies. They will all progress at their own rates.
Mario will be fine, I'm sure of it. It's just that it is incorrect to say that he was double teamed all game long like many members have taken to saying.

There it is... fire away.
Click to expand...

With all that being said its gonna be nice to watch him develop into one of the top pass rushers in football.
 
michaelm said:
Preface
I want to make it clear that this post is in no way an indictment of Mario Williams.
What we have seen from him so far is a little bit of training camp, and a single preseason game.
I am fully on the Mario bandwagon. I fully expect him to be dominant for years, long after Mr. Bush is out of the league (I hate to keep bringing these two up in the same post/thread, but someone will, it is inevitable, so I did it myself).

Again... I like Mario Williams, and think he will be an all pro very soon.

Statement
Although it has been stated many times in many threads on these boards, I'd like to correct a misconception.
Mario was not double teamed all game against KC.
Some of you have pointed this out already, and i'm not trying to steal your thunder. I just think that this deserved it's own thread, because so many people have taken that stance, based most likely on what they've read in previous posts.

I have watched the tapes, repeatedly.
There are two plays that I have seen where the initial blocker had help for a second or two, but there was no wholesale gameplanning to deal with Mario.
In fact, I saw Tony Gonzales stop him one on one on two seperate occasions.
Mario looked like a rookie, I'm sorry to say. Yes, he did seem to have an effect that allowed the other DLinemen to be more productive. Yes, He did show some pretty good upfield push. He showed good speed and movement.
He still looked like a rookie.
I know that this thread will draw alot of fire. Anyone who's familiar with my previous threads will agree that I am not saying these things to be incindiary, to be provacative, or to dog Mario.
This is just what I see, and wanted to displell the myth...
I don't want this to turn into a 'why didn't we take Reggie' thread.
That is so old and played out it's pityful.
I just want to put the truth out there.
Lets stop creating unrealistic expectations for all of these rookies. They will all progress at their own rates.
Mario will be fine, I'm sure of it. It's just that it is incorrect to say that he was double teamed all game long like many members have taken to saying.

There it is... fire away.
Click to expand...

...and your point is???
 
I think his point was, if were going to talk about Mario lets be honest and not make excuses for him.

He played like a rook.
 
Carr Bomb said:
I think his point was, if were going to talk about Mario lets be honest and not make excuses for him.

He played like a rook.
Click to expand...

"not make excuses for him." Hey, I like that. We certainly do not need a first round draft pick we have to make excuses for...
 
NATHANHALE said:
"not make excuses for him." Hey, I like that. We certainly do not need a first round draft pick we have to make excuses for...
Click to expand...

Dude don't get so bent out of shape.

Everything he said was true, Mario wasn't doubled on almost every play, watch the game. Kubiak even said the same thing, he played like a rook.

now breathe and pull out the wedgie.....dang
 
The truth about Mario won't be known for several months. We should have a pretty good idea of what we have by this time next year. Most people realize that. Others will continue to vehemently point fingers or defend depending what side of the line you're on.

Conclusions on Bush can be drawn first - probably by mid-season. Then Mario - by the end of '06 and into '07. Then Vince -- in that order.

Anyone drawing conclusions from one ESPN highlight needs to turn off the microwave and fire up the smoker.
 
Mario is a rookie--what exactly did you expect him to play like in his first game? He played like a rookie with potential so-like I asked before--your point is,,,,,,? That some posters say he got double teamed, when he didn't? OK...but he's still a rookie, right--or is that not true? And, Reggie, what does he have to do with this? But, koodos, at least you left Young's name out!
 
NATHANHALE said:
Mario is a rookie--what exactly did you expect him to play like in his first game? He played like a rookie with potential so-like I asked before--your point is,,,,,,? That some posters say he got double teamed, when he didn't? OK...but he's still a rookie, right--or is that not true? And, Reggie, what does he have to do with this? But, koodos, at least you left Young's name out!
Click to expand...

I feel the same way, he's a rookie.

You don't just come into your first couple of series in the NFL and start blowing people up.

The original poster was saying the same thing......He played like a rookie, because he is one. I think we're all on the same page here, he was just trying to clear up the misconception that Mario faced double teams all night....no biggie
 
Carr Bomb said:
Dude don't get so bent out of shape.

Everything he said was true, Mario wasn't doubled on almost every play, watch the game. Kubiak even said the same thing, he played like a rook.

now breathe and pull out the wedgie.....dang
Click to expand...

Yo,dude, I could care less about whether Mario got double teamed or not Saturday--we won, that's what matters to me. There were good performances Sat and there were not so good, some by rookies and some by veterans. I'm a firm believer in holding a player-rookie or veteran-accountable for his play on the field and that goes for every player--sure, the rooks are expected to play like a rook because that's what they are!!!!

"...he played like a rook." Well, duh, guess what (laughing). I'm breathing find, just laughing too much at the thought that Mario played like a 'rookie' and some posters said he was double team when he wasn't....geez, is that all there is??
 
NATHANHALE said:
Mario is a rookie--what exactly did you expect him to play like in his first game? He played like a rookie with potential so-like I asked before--your point is,,,,,,? That some posters say he got double teamed, when he didn't? OK...but he's still a rookie, right--or is that not true? And, Reggie, what does he have to do with this? But, koodos, at least you left Young's name out!
Click to expand...

What I see is that you got mad at my post before you finished reading it...
Yes, my point was quite cleary to correct the opinion that Mario was double teamed all game when he wasn't.
Now, if you can stop being so freaking combative and read the end of my ORIGINAL POST, you will see that I suggested that we stop having unrealistic expectaions of these ROOKIES. And that they would progress at their own rates.
I am a Mario guy. I like Mario. I think he will be great.
He just wasn't double teamed... that's all.

Take a breath man. If you take the time to finish my post before you get angry at it, you will see that we share similar thoughts on the rookie part of the equation...
 
OK..............so that means so far everybody that has posted here has had the same exact opinion.....................:um:......is there something I'm not getting
 
Carr Bomb said:
OK..............so that means so far everybody that has posted here has had the same exact opinion.....................:um:
Click to expand...

Same opinion, different levels of reading comprehension.


...aimed at no one in particular...:shades: ...but definately not you.
 
michaelm said:
What I see is that you got mad at my post before you finished reading it...
Yes, my point was quite cleary to correct the opinion that Mario was double team when he wasn't.
Now, if you can stop being so freaking combative and read the end of my ORIGINAL POST, you will see that I suggested that we stop having unrealistic expectaions of these ROOKIES. And that they would progress at their own rates.
I am a Mario guy. I like Mario. I think he will be great.
He just wasn't double teamed... that's all.

Take a breath man. If you take the time to finish my post before you get angry at it, you will see that we share similar thoughts on the rookie part of the equation...
Click to expand...

Where do you get this 'angry' stuff? Is a poster that comments on your post considered angry because he doesn't totally agree with you? Don't be silly!! I just don't understand the purpose of your post. Why? There have already been several posts on this topic of whether Mario was doubled team or not--ok, so your right! Then you bring up the Reggie debate but stress it is not your intention to start that all over again--so, why bring it up??

Mario played like what he is, a rookie. Saying that, I personally believe too many posters are going to judge Mario based upon the # of sacks he gets and that is incorrect. Sure, Mario will get sacks. But he will get so much more. He is expected to elevate the play of those around him (have we ever gotten 5 sacks in a game before?), free up other lineman to make plays by getting double teamed/playing multiple positions on the line/by being at different places at different times--by just plain wrecking 'havoc' any way he can. This will not happen over night but I believe it will happen. Kubiak wants our line to be relentless and unpredictable...

We can't always pick and choose which players we are patient with as fans, but I think we need to cut the 'rooks' a little slack..
 
Coming out of last years Draft, though not as big Shawn Merriman was probably the most comparable to Mario because he was such an extraordinary athelete and workout warrior with his combination of size, strength, and speed.
Merriman played both DE and OLB at Maryland and became the strongside
OLB in San Dieagos 3-4.
Merriman was so capable and effective in San Dieago that he not only
was named the Defensive ROY, he went to Honolulu as a starter in his first
NFL season. Merriman was the 12th player taken in the 2005 Draft.
I see no reason to expect any less from Mario in his rookie year.
 
NATHANHALE said:
Where do you get this 'angry' stuff? Is a poster that comments on your post considered angry because he doesn't totally agree with you? Don't be silly!! I just don't understand the purpose of your post. Why? There have already been several posts on this topic of whether Mario was doubled team or not--ok, so your right! Then you bring up the Reggie debate but stress it is not your intention to start that all over again--so, why bring it up??

Mario played like what he is, a rookie. Saying that, I personally believe too many posters are going to judge Mario based upon the # of sacks he gets and that is incorrect. Sure, Mario will get sacks. But he will get so much more. He is expected to elevate the play of those around him (have we ever gotten 5 sacks in a game before?), free up other lineman to make plays by getting double teamed/playing multiple positions on the line/by being at different places at different times--by just plain wrecking 'havoc' any way he can. This will not happen over night but I believe it will happen. Kubiak wants our line to be relentless and unpredictable...

We can't always pick and choose which players we are patient with as fans, but I think we need to cut the 'rooks' a little slack..
Click to expand...
Correct me if I'm wrong, and believe me I love Mario, but didn't all of our sacks come when he wasn't in the game? I've only watched the game once on my DVR but as far as I could tell, all of our sacks came in the second half when Mario was not playing. None of this is meant to downgrade the abilities of Super Mario, but he definitely looked like a rookie, as everyone, according to you, has already professed.
 
nunusguy said:
Coming out of last years Draft, though not as big Shawn Merriman was probably the most comparable to Mario because he was such an extraordinary athelete and workout warrior with his combination of size, strength, and speed.
Merriman played both DE and OLB at Maryland and became the strongside
OLB in San Dieagos 3-4.
Merriman was so capable and effective in San Dieago that he not only
was named the Defensive ROY, he went to Honolulu as a starter in his first
NFL season. Merriman was the 12th player taken in the 2005 Draft.
I see no reason to expect any less from Mario in his rookie year.
Click to expand...

Different defense and different position, so that is not a fair comparison.

As long as Mario shows growth and improvement from week to week, I am happy. Bruce Smith took a full year to break out. Ray Childress took a year to become a game changer. So be patient.

All the people with drums to beat because there guy was not taken need to get over themselves. Did I want Mario before the draft? No, am I happy with the pick now? Yes, he has changed my mind of him. I also believe in Kubiaks vision of this team. Our defense would really suck right now if we had taken either of the other 2 guys. Right now we have reason to be optimistic about the future of this defense because of Mario and Ryans.

We will never agree with every decision our team makes, and how many of our "choices" have failed thru the years, a lot.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, and believe me I love Mario, but didn't all of our sacks come when he wasn't in the game? I've only watched the game once on my DVR but as far as I could tell, all of our sacks came in the second half when Mario was not playing. None of this is meant to downgrade the abilities of Super Mario, but he definitely looked like a rookie, as everyone, according to you, has already professed.
Click to expand...

Point duly noted. However back to your original post Mario wasn't doubled much, but he also got picked up by backup blockers. It's my believe that it was jitters and him trying to do too much that made him play so much like a rookie. He blew past the line once, I mean totally blew by them, but then tripped himself up. I dunno why that was, but from what I saw it was him making mistakes that took him out of the game. That trip is what allowed the second blocker to handle him so easily and make him look so bad. Another time he was cut block again by the fullback, however what I was impressed with on that play was how quickly he recovered. Keep in mind he was playing the first team and Green was getting rid of the ball really quickly, I think he might have gotten to him had he taken any longer to get rid of the ball. Another factor is that he was moving all over the place, there was no way in the limited time he played that he could get accustomed to his blockers and really work on them. Also when he played tackle I think he got a better push on the line then our other tackles he maybe should have kept pushing, but he turned to the spin move and took himself out of that play. Sometimes pushing the line back can cause problems to the QB, but he abandoned his push to early. I think he relied to heavily on the Bull rush, but there's nothing wrong with that I think that's a good way to measure your opponent. He has the potential and with more time I think he should shine. Since Pace might not play this Saturday I think he will have a good chance to show his stuff and with more playing time and getting over the first game jitters he might even get a sack this next game. Overall, this was his first game and he made mistakes as expected, but by the same token he should be expected to show improvement this next game.

GO MARIO!!!
 
I think the real problem is that we are all very anxious. Saturday is to far away and I really want to see Mario and company do it all again. At the moment we have entirely too much time to over analyze, re-hash, and worry about silly stuff.

I just want to watch more football. Too bad we dont have a station on TV that just covers the Texans 24hrs a day.

"Best things come to those who wait"
 
dat_boy_yec said:
Since Pace might not play this Saturday I think he will have a good chance to show his stuff and with more playing time and getting over the first game jitters he might even get a sack this next game.

GO MARIO!!!
Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Pace play LT? And doesn't Mario lines up against the RT&TE on the usual strong side?

Sorry, but still GO MARIO!!!
 
painekiller said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Pace play LT? And doesn't Mario lines up against the RT&TE on the usual strong side?

Sorry, but still GO MARIO!!!
Click to expand...

I saw him moving all over the field so honestly I have no idea where he will get the majority of his snaps, but whatever as long as he plays thats good.
 
michaelm said:
Preface
There it is...
Click to expand...

michaelm, good post. Mario needs to bring a hardhat and lunchbox to work and bust his butt. Nothing more, nothing less. That's all we can ask of him. HIS best.


Lets keep our eyes on the prize... :trophy: Then, only then can we shutup the ESPN naysayers. <flipping the bird icon>
 
aj. said:
The truth about Mario won't be known for several months. We should have a pretty good idea of what we have by this time next year. Most people realize that. Others will continue to vehemently point fingers or defend depending what side of the line you're on.

Conclusions on Bush can be drawn first - probably by mid-season. Then Mario - by the end of '06 and into '07. Then Vince -- in that order.

Anyone drawing conclusions from one ESPN highlight needs to turn off the microwave and fire up the smoker.
Click to expand...

Beautifully written. DE is a tough place to be but I’m confident that Mario is extremely strong and ready for the challenge. Having someone that big and agile on the front line will definitely help us. and he will help us from the get go….. meaning game one against phili.

:mario:
 
michaelm said:
Preface
I have watched the tapes, repeatedly.
In fact, I saw Tony Gonzales stop him one on one on two seperate occasions.
Mario looked like a rookie, I'm sorry to say.
Click to expand...

I think you're mistaken.... there were two plays alltogether, that Mario went one on one with TonyG. The first one, yes.... it was a stalemate.....

The second, after about a second, it looked like Mario picked him up, and tossed him on a pile of offensive line and runningback... the play was over that quick...... After that, there were few plays where he wasn't doubled.....

But he did look like a rookie, falling over himself...... thinking he was the shizznit for getting off the line untouched....... you can see him Cheesin from the stands....... then that littl Halfback comes and takes his legs from underhim......

Or there was that time he thought he was going to do the ole spin move on Kyle Turley.... he bumped Kyle with the right shoulder, then moved into him as he rolled around & in front of him..... But Kyle stepped back, and Mario fell on his ........ well you know.

He's definitely got a ways to go..... but he's still a kid....... a big strong kid who is just going to get bigger and stronger.....
 
Smash_Mouth_Mario said:
michaelm, good post. Mario needs to bring a hardhat and lunchbox to work and bust his butt. Nothing more, nothing less. That's all we can ask of him. HIS best.


Lets keep our eyes on the prize... :trophy: Then, only then can we shutup the ESPN naysayers. <flipping the bird icon>
Click to expand...


even if we win the Lombardy this season, the naysayers would say we'd have won it last year, if we'd drafted Reggie.......... or Vince........ or started Rosenfells.
 
aj. said:
The truth about Mario won't be known for several months. We should have a pretty good idea of what we have by this time next year. Most people realize that. Others will continue to vehemently point fingers or defend depending what side of the line you're on.

Conclusions on Bush can be drawn first - probably by mid-season. Then Mario - by the end of '06 and into '07. Then Vince -- in that order.

Anyone drawing conclusions from one ESPN highlight needs to turn off the microwave and fire up the smoker.
Click to expand...

I think this is the underlying statement of this thread.

Its too early to judge any of the rookies: Vince, Reggie, Mario, and everyone else. In the first preseason game of the year, just on a couple of downs, it is probably most difficult and too early. I think we are all just so pumped about this season that we are in a hurry to see results, especially my homerself included. There's nothing wrong with it, all opinions are great, but we should try to keep things in perspective when proclaiming a great rookie prospect is already outperforming another.

Atleast thats what I'm gettin from this thread.
 
Jwwillis said:
Man, when people told Mario we was going to be under a microscope, they weren't kidding. :hides:
Click to expand...

Yeah and if Mario Williams has Frosted Flakes and Reggie Bush has Cheerios for breakfast, the trolls come and let us know!
 
NATHANHALE said:
Where do you get this 'angry' stuff? Is a poster that comments on your post considered angry because he doesn't totally agree with you? Don't be silly!! I just don't understand the purpose of your post. Why? There have already been several posts on this topic of whether Mario was doubled team or not--ok, so your right! Then you bring up the Reggie debate but stress it is not your intention to start that all over again--so, why bring it up??

Mario played like what he is, a rookie. Saying that, I personally believe too many posters are going to judge Mario based upon the # of sacks he gets and that is incorrect. Sure, Mario will get sacks. But he will get so much more. He is expected to elevate the play of those around him (have we ever gotten 5 sacks in a game before?), free up other lineman to make plays by getting double teamed/playing multiple positions on the line/by being at different places at different times--by just plain wrecking 'havoc' any way he can. This will not happen over night but I believe it will happen. Kubiak wants our line to be relentless and unpredictable...

We can't always pick and choose which players we are patient with as fans, but I think we need to cut the 'rooks' a little slack..
Click to expand...


If I was mistaken, then I apologise, but you just came across as a little reactionary and angry to me. Again, I could have misread.
I actually agree with everything that you're saying in this post. Even the fact that I brought up Reggie.
As I stated before, I assumed it was inevitable, so I brought it up to try and head it off at the pass...

My intentions were simple, really.
I saw a trend developing where people were starting to take the double team story as fact. Not just that; it was being perpetuated as fact.
I'm sure it probably came from a single incorrect post, and was being regurgitated as fact... it surely didn't come from viewing the game.
I thought a dedicated thread might help put an end to it...
Hey, I want Mario to do as well as anyone here. I just don't think it's valid for people to defend his play with incorrect information...
 
thunderkyss said:
even if we win the Lombardy this season, the naysayers would say we'd have won it last year, if we'd drafted Reggie.......... or Vince........ or started Rosenfells.
Click to expand...

Now that is an interesting possibility I haven't explored yet. Reggie and Vince are so damn good, our team would have actually reversed time and dimension, and been better in the past. But then we never would have been 2-14 and been able to draft them?! Back to the Future all over again.



:cool:
 
listen guys i would like to see williams become a great player and in turn be worthy of the number one selection just dont see it happening. i think mario will be a solid player who contributes to an improving team, but im sorry thats not what im looking for from a 56million first pick in the draft investment. obviously bush was the best player in the draft followed by vince and a.j. hawk was the best defensive player coming into the draft. like i said mario will be solid just dont think he will be great. after 1 good season and a great workout at the combine the texans make this guy the number one pick overall. rediculous.. he played on an nc state team that went 6-5 and on that team there were 3 other players on the defense that went on the first day of nfl draft. one was a first round lineman as well. this guy was benched early in season for not playing hard all the time. he put up great numbers for one season. 14 sacks.. he had 4 against a bad maryland team and 3 against a bad wake forest team. against the good teams in the acc that would have nfl type talent like florida st and virginia tech he posted no sacks. just wondering if maybe this guy used his great physical talents to dominate inferior opponets. in the nfl there are not too many inferior talents on the other side of the ball. first pick in the draft needs to be great not solid will see what he can do
 
cbnjwill said:
listen guys i would like to see williams become a great player and in turn be worthy of the number one selection just dont see it happening. i think mario will be a solid player who contributes to an improving team, but im sorry thats not what im looking for from a 56million first pick in the draft investment. obviously bush was the best player in the draft followed by vince and a.j. hawk was the best defensive player coming into the draft. like i said mario will be solid just dont think he will be great. after 1 good season and a great workout at the combine the texans make this guy the number one pick overall. rediculous.. he played on an nc state team that went 6-5 and on that team there were 3 other players on the defense that went on the first day of nfl draft. one was a first round lineman as well. this guy was benched early in season for not playing hard all the time. he put up great numbers for one season. 14 sacks.. he had 4 against a bad maryland team and 3 against a bad wake forest team. against the good teams in the acc that would have nfl type talent like florida st and virginia tech he posted no sacks. just wondering if maybe this guy used his great physical talents to dominate inferior opponets. in the nfl there are not too many inferior talents on the other side of the ball. first pick in the draft needs to be great not solid will see what he can do
Click to expand...

read the info that the texans chick put up it explains alot about mario...other nfl teams had him ranked number1 on their boards...and by the way i don't think vince young was the second best player in the draft...top 5 or 8 yes but not the second best...
 
mario stats won't be measured by sacks, tackles etc. Ultimately, I see him somewhere in between Peppers and Richard Seymour but with the potential to be better than all of them. We will just have to see.
 
if mario is somewhere between peppers and seymour the next couple of yrs are u happy with that as the first overall pick?
 
cbnjwill said:
if mario is somewhere between peppers and seymour the next couple of yrs are u happy with that as the first overall pick?
Click to expand...

If Mario is between Peppers and Seymour and he helps us win the title. I'm happy with the pick.

If Mario is the next Reggie White and we don't win a title. I'm not happy...period.
 
cbnjwill said:
if mario is somewhere between peppers and seymour the next couple of yrs are u happy with that as the first overall pick?
Click to expand...

Are you happy with all our previous first overall picks?
 
if you think of all the games we should have won last year, we were not in the running for the first pick. let's not look a gift horse in the mouth.
-74
 
cbnjwill said:
listen guys i would like to see williams become a great player and in turn be worthy of the number one selection just dont see it happening. i think mario will be a solid player who contributes to an improving team, but im sorry thats not what im looking for from a 56million first pick in the draft investment. obviously bush was the best player in the draft followed by vince and a.j. hawk was the best defensive player coming into the draft. like i said mario will be solid just dont think he will be great. after 1 good season and a great workout at the combine the texans make this guy the number one pick overall. rediculous.. he played on an nc state team that went 6-5 and on that team there were 3 other players on the defense that went on the first day of nfl draft. one was a first round lineman as well. this guy was benched early in season for not playing hard all the time. he put up great numbers for one season. 14 sacks.. he had 4 against a bad maryland team and 3 against a bad wake forest team. against the good teams in the acc that would have nfl type talent like florida st and virginia tech he posted no sacks. just wondering if maybe this guy used his great physical talents to dominate inferior opponets. in the nfl there are not too many inferior talents on the other side of the ball. first pick in the draft needs to be great not solid will see what he can do
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Vince.......... then Mario...... then D'Brick....... Hawk...... Bush.....

I could see him realistically going as high as third, depending on the mindset of those teams picking.

Houston..... didn't need a QB..... N.O. didn't need a RB...... Tennesse wanted a QB more than they needed one....... they needed a RB, OL, or a real LineBacker.

In the history of time...... there has not been a runningback drafted #1 overall who was not a proven workhorse....... Even then, Ricky Williams, Ron Dayne, Ladanian Tomlinson, Edgerin James, and Shaun Alexander were not drafted #1 overall.

Clinton Portis was a second Round pick....... Larry Johnson 27th overall(out of 32 picks) Terrell Davis was a 4th round pick........... and this years draft was deeper than all of those.

Ronnie Brown is believed to be better than ReggieBush.... by many people, and he was drafted behind Alex(can only through a touchdown against the Texans)Smith.

Reggie Bush #1 overall............. it's all hype.
 
Carr Bomb said:
I think his point was, if were going to talk about Mario lets be honest and not make excuses for him.

He played like a rook.
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well we should be reasonable with him knowing he is a rookie. i just dont want him to be in his 4th NFL season still being treated like a fairy princess the way capers and his staff did to david carr. we need to treat mario like the waterboy.....make him really pissed off so he can unleash fury in the game.

LUIGI IS BETTER!

....EEHHHHAAAAAAAAARRRRRR *BOOM*
 
NATHANHALE said:
We can't always pick and choose which players we are patient with as fans, but I think we need to cut the 'rooks' a little slack..
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Sure we can pick and choose who we are patient with as fans. He is a rookie. If he comes along like many of us expect, we're good. If he doesn't, it won't be the first time. Do you think McNair, Kubiak, and etc. really care if we are behind the pick or not? No. They don't. This is their BUSINESS... not some hobby like all us... myself included.

Bottom line, who cares? It's not our money. Yes, many of us have paid for season tickets... so while that gives us the option to attend a game or not, nowhere in my PSL does it give me any type of right to direct how the money is spent, nor does it give us any type of promise that the Texans will field a winning team.

As long as the team wins, I'm good. I don't care if ThunderKyss is playing defensive end.
 
KKHouston said:
Sure we can pick and choose who we are patient with as fans. He is a rookie. If he comes along like many of us expect, we're good. If he doesn't, it won't be the first time. Do you think McNair, Kubiak, and etc. really care if we are behind the pick or not? No. They don't. This is their BUSINESS... not some hobby like all us... myself included.

Bottom line, who cares? It's not our money. Yes, many of us have paid for season tickets... so while that gives us the option to attend a game or not, nowhere in my PSL does it give me any type of right to direct how the money is spent, nor does it give us any type of promise that the Texans will field a winning team.

As long as the team wins, I'm good. I don't care if ThunderKyss is playing defensive end.
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OK, you're right. It is a business, a business that relies on income. For the Texans, where does that income come from. If the fans don't show up with paid tickets, how long does this business continue to operate?...not our money? Yes, it is. The Texans are like any other business that is competing for the 'almighty' dollar and are selling a product (the team) to get those dollars. Bob McNair knows this. An empty stadium does not just lose ticket/concession/souvenir money, but also advertising/promotional and TV money. And, as the team found out last year (also in this first pre-season game), fans will only support a losing team so long--McNair is not stupid. He knows that---bottom line, the Texans are a product...and the fans are the ones that buy this product.
 
tsip said:
OK, you're right. It is a business, a business that relies on income. For the Texans, where does that income come from. If the fans don't show up with paid tickets, how long does this business continue to operate?...not our money? Yes, it is. The Texans are like any other business that is competing for the 'almighty' dollar and are selling a product (the team) to get those dollars. Bob McNair knows this. An empty stadium does not just lose ticket/concession/souvenir money, but also advertising/promotional and TV money. And, as the team found out last year (also in this first pre-season game), fans will only support a losing team so long--McNair is not stupid. He knows that---bottom line, the Texans are a product...and the fans are the ones that buy this product.
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And will continue to buy the product, as proven over and over in the NFL. Case in point... Raiders, Seahawks, Falcons, even the Saints. The list goes on. As long as it's the only product in town, there will be a demand for it. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower... but a demand. Economics 101. They teach that at UT, right?

Of course our money is counted on and needed. However, it doesn't give you (or me) the right to tell them how to run the team and spend the money.
 
KKHouston said:
And will continue to buy the product, as proven over and over in the NFL. Case in point... Raiders, Seahawks, Falcons, even the Saints. The list goes on. As long as it's the only product in town, there will be a demand for it. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower... but a demand. Economics 101. They teach that at UT, right?

Of course our money is counted on and needed. However, it doesn't give you (or me) the right to tell them how to run the team and spend the money.
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The Texans are not the only product in town. Last Sat, both the Astros and Texans were playing at the same time--Minute Maid Park was full, Reliant Stadium was not. Also, selling a ticket to a game does not guarantee that that fan will show up (remember all the empty seats last year) and getting the fan in the stadium is where the real money is made.

"right to tell them how to run the team and spend the money."

Customers have the power to make or break businesses every day--call it what you want. OK, Economics 101-regardless of where you did or did not go to school- think for a moment what the scenario would have been this year if McNair had made 'no changes' and we had another disastorous year with Capers and Co--you don't have to be a genuis to figure out why McNair made those changes, the fans.
 
tsip said:
The Texans are not the only product in town. Last Sat, both the Astros and Texans were playing at the same time--Minute Maid Park was full, Reliant Stadium was not. Also, selling a ticket to a game does not guarantee that that fan will show up (remember all the empty seats last year) and getting the fan in the stadium is where the real money is made.

"right to tell them how to run the team and spend the money."

Customers have the power to make or break businesses every day--call it what you want. OK, Economics 101-regardless of where you did or did not go to school- think for a moment what the scenario would have been this year if McNair had made 'no changes' and we had another disastorous year with Capers and Co--you don't have to be a genuis to figure out why McNair made those changes, the fans.
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Give it until Sept. The Astros will be done, yet again. Are you going to the Dynamo games?

You're missing the point. You (and I) as a fan, can choose not to go. However, we still don't have the right to dictate how they spend the money, or run the team.

You saw how much McNair listened to the fans by passing on Bush and Young. Did it matter? Not a bit. He did what he wanted.. it's his team. How many Season Tickets are there remaining for purchase? Probably the same amount as last year. I don't know where to verify this, though.

1.) Yes, you, as a fan have the right to purchase a ticket.
2.) Yes, you as a fan have the right to not purchase a ticket.
3.) No, you do not have the right to tell them how to run the team. You're not a shareholder (unless you're in the investor group).
 
You are absolutely correct to point out that Mario was hardly, if ever, double-teamed in the KC game. He was pretty much being handled on an individual basis. That being said, he will get better as the season progresses. The true question is will he show that he was talented enough to be worthy of the number one overall pick.
 
The truly concerning thing is that Mario was being handled...by a guy who hasn't played in two years, and who was trying out to be a TE for Miami before being thrust into the OL when Roaf suddenly retired.

I hope he turns out to be great, but he's off to an inauspicious start:
(1) Bad toenails keep him out of minicamp and training camp (TOENAILS???), and
(2) He gets handled by Turley (TURLEY??????)

Let's be honest here - at this point he's got nowhere to go but up.

Plus, I think one of the most important things pointed out above was that Shawn Merriman, described as probably the most comparable guy to Mario, was a 12th overall pick last year. Mario was not No. 1 overall material, and the Texans did a great injustice to him in setting him up for a career-long critique by taking him first overall instead of trading down to get him (where he still would have been available).

If Kubiak's system sucked Saturday, and we lost and looked bad doing it, nobody would be happy about Mario right now.
 
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