David Carr 2nd best decision maker?

The Dude Abides · Aug 8, 2006

I didn't make this list so don't flame on me. Just posting what K.C. Joyner had to say. If you scroll down the list Carr is the second best decision maker behind only Tom Brady. I'm not saying I agree with what it says, I'm just posting it for the sake of argument.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=2542482

The most common types of bad decisions are:

1. Forcing a pass into coverage
2. Staring at a receiver
3. Throwing the ball despite being tackled
4. Misreading a zone defense and not seeing a defender in the passing lane.

If the quarterback's mistake did not lead to a turnover (e.g., a dropped interception, a recovered fumble, etc.), the mistake is given only one bad decision point. If the mistake led to a turnover, however, it is given two mistake points and also is subject to a graduating scale of points based on how damaging the turnover was (e.g., an additional point for an interception killing a scoring drive, another additional point if the interception led to the opponent's being set up in scoring position, etc.). The scale has an upper limit of five points for any single bad decision.

Scientific Football 2006 can be ordered now from KC Joyner's website.Bad decision rankings are based on two percentage bases. The first is the standard bad decision percentage. To calculate this, I take the number of bad decisions a quarterback generated and divide it by the total number of attempts. The second percentage rating is the weighted bad decision percentage. This is calculated by taking the number of bad decision points and dividing it by the total number of attempts.

Rank-------Player ------- Team ------------Bad decision/Mistake %
1.------Tom Brady -----Patriots ---------------- 0.7
2. -----David Carr ----- Texans ------------------1.6
3. -----Peyton Manning -Colts -------------------1.7
4. -----Drew Bledsoe ---Cowboys ----------------1.9
5. -----Jake Plummer ---- Broncos ---------------- 2.1

This was on free ESPN insider.

powerfuldragon · Aug 8, 2006

if 2. is indeed a sign of a bad decision maker, then this guy was clearly on the sauce when he wrote that list.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry · Aug 8, 2006

The Dude Abides said:
I didn't make this list so don't flame on me. Just posting what K.C. Joyner had to say. If you scroll down the list Carr is the second best decision maker behind only Tom Brady. I'm not saying I agree with what it says, I'm just posting it for the sake of argument.

This was on free ESPN insider.

Your going to get any argument, and that as far as i read so far.

jerek · Aug 8, 2006

It's just the way he rated it and the fact that it appears he didn't assign a mistake for eating the ball or for causing a sack. That said, there's a lot to be said for the fact that a turnover is infinitely worse than a sack leading to a punt ... simple math conveniently ignored by the anti-Carr agenda.

TexansLucky13 · Aug 8, 2006

I'm still waiting for some anti-Carr sentiment here. This is another thing that goes to prove what I have suspected all along.... if the boy has protection, he can make the play. He either got it done, or got a sack. That does not bother me.

infantrycak · Aug 8, 2006

This is another example where the results from the theory should cause the writer to reconsider the methodology. No way you've got a valid methodology if it ranks Carr #2 in the league last year. I suspect if some weighted factor was added in to consider the yards per attempt or nature of the O being run you would find Carr (5.88 ypa) falling significantly and Big Ben rising significantly (8.9 ypa).

Double Barrel · Aug 8, 2006

Interesting way to look at things. It shows that perception is a choice at times. I don't recall a player in recent memory that had such extreme opinions from fans.

If you look at it from this guy's perspective, then Carr would have a winning record if he was Patriot and Brady would be hurting from 200 sacks over the past four seasons as a Texan.

TexansLucky13 · Aug 8, 2006

infantrycak said:
This is another example where the results from the theory should cause the writer to reconsider the methodology. No way you've got a valid methodology if it ranks Carr #2 in the league last year.

A classic anti-Carr argument. Wonderful.

If any study is conducted where Carr ends up looking good, then the study was obviously flawed.

I call you out on flawed logic instead.

wags · Aug 8, 2006

This guy did the same thing last year and Carr was ranked really high. Doesn't really mean anyhting IMO. Carr needs to play better along with the other fellas.

TexansLucky13 · Aug 8, 2006

wags said:
This guy did the same thing last year and Carr was ranked really high. Doesn't really mean anyhting IMO. Carr needs to play better along with the other fellas.

Of course it means nothing. Statistics mean absolutely nothing. And I agree, he does need to make better decisions. But it's funny how some people respond to Carr studies on this board. In their eyes there is nothing that can make him look respectable. Jeez.

The Dude Abides · Aug 8, 2006

wags said:
This guy did the same thing last year and Carr was ranked really high. Doesn't really mean anyhting IMO. Carr needs to play better along with the other fellas.

From his 2005 article

That also leads me to a question I received via e-mail. A few people wrote in and asked me how it was that David Carr had only 10 bad decisions in 2004, yet he threw 14 interceptions. There were actually a couple of reasons for that. One is that I was missing a few plays from Carr's 2004 season, two of which were interception plays.

The second and more important point is that not all interceptions are the result of bad decisions. Two of David Carr's 2004 interceptions came from passes that were tipped at the line of scrimmage by defensive linemen. That type of play would not be listed as a bad decision because Carr didn't make a field vision or judgment error. That same type of reasoning is used on a jump ball. If Daunte Culpepper threw a fade pattern to Randy Moss last year, and the cornerback outjumped Moss for an interception. Is it right to charge Culpepper with a bad decision? In that case, the interception would have come more from the cornerback's good play than anything Culpepper did wrong.

thunderkyss · Aug 8, 2006

TexansLucky13 said:
Of course it means nothing. Statistics mean absolutely nothing. And I agree, he does need to make better decisions. But it's funny how some people respond to Carr studies on this board. In their eyes there is nothing that can make him look respectable. Jeez.

from reading the little bit of premise given in the Original Post...... this looks like a good thing..... & I will resist my natural instinct to "spin" this........ and you know I can.

David Carr's Good Points: Strong Arm.... Mobile..... Smart.... and tough as nails...

I can agree with that.

thunderkyss · Aug 8, 2006

jerek said:
It's just the way he rated it and the fact that it appears he didn't assign a mistake for eating the ball or for causing a sack.

shew....... I thought I would have to say it..... thanks pal.

infantrycak · Aug 8, 2006

TexansLucky13 said:
A classic anti-Carr argument. Wonderful.

If any study is conducted where Carr ends up looking good, then the study was obviously flawed.

I call you out on flawed logic instead.

If you paid any attention around here at all you would realize I am not anti-Carr and watching football games last year instead of just cheerleading makes it pretty obvious Carr was not the 2nd best decision maker in the NFL.

TexansLucky13 · Aug 8, 2006

thunderkyss said:
from reading the little bit of premise given in the Original Post...... this looks like a good thing..... & I will resist my natural instinct to "spin" this........ and you know I can.

David Carr's Good Points: Strong Arm.... Mobile..... Smart.... and tough as nails...

I can agree with that.

I agree. I know you can spin it, haha... and I sorta expected it. Props to you for having an objective view of this study. I personally see it as just another playing chip for my arguments against the anti-Carr crowd.

infantrycak said:
If you paid any attention around here at all you would realize I am not anti-Carr and watching football games last year instead of just cheerleading makes it pretty obvious Carr was not the 2nd best decision maker in the NFL.

Lately you have shown a little distaste for him. I myself thought it was strange, because I would not put you in the anti-Carr crowd on a normal basis. Whats wrong with you lately?

I don't cheerlead.... I study. As I said before if you were paying attention.... Carr needs some work. But he isn't half as bad as many want to make him out to be. I'm tired of hearing it and having to propose a stronger argument to counter a bit of bias.

infantrycak · Aug 8, 2006

TexansLucky13 said:
Lately you have shown a little distaste for him. I myself thought it was strange, because I would not put you in the anti-Carr crowd on a normal basis. Whats wrong with you lately?

I don't cheerlead.... I study. As I said before if you were paying attention.... Carr needs some work. But he isn't half as bad as many want to make him out to be. I'm tired of hearing it and having to propose a stronger argument to counter a bit of bias.

I don't know what I have said that could be interpreted as distaste for Carr--anything you want to point me to? I call 'em like I see 'em. If I see Carr at mid pack I will counter a post which says either he is great or sucks. Folks at the extremes somehow twist that into being in the camp of the opposite extreme.

thunderkyss · Aug 8, 2006

infantrycak said:
If you paid any attention around here at all you would realize I am not anti-Carr and watching football games last year instead of just cheerleading makes it pretty obvious Carr was not the 2nd best decision maker in the NFL.

Look....... stop taking cheap shots at our QB......... if you're going to root for the Texans, you have to understand the only way we'll be successful, is for Carr to be successfull.

People like you really bring this MB down..... disagreeing with everybody and all.....

:stirpot:

TexansLucky13 · Aug 8, 2006

infantrycak said:
I don't know what I have said that could be interpreted as distaste for Carr--anything you want to point me to? I call 'em like I see 'em. If I see Carr at mid pack I will counter a post which says either he is great or sucks. Folks at the extremes somehow twist that into being in the camp of the opposite extreme.

Yea, I made that same point when I was dicussing how liberals view Fox news as an extreme conservative news station even though they try to stay as moderate as possible.

I know you are pretty moderate about things infantrycak, but I read someof your posts the other day that were making me scratch my head. Sorry I don't have time to find them, I need to take my sis to colorguard.

The only thing I challenged was your original post. Other than that its all good. You gotta take this study at what its worth, and we all know that Carr can improve. I especially know that.

thunderkyss · Aug 8, 2006

TexansLucky13 said:
Lately you have shown a little distaste for him. I myself thought it was strange, because I would not put you in the anti-Carr crowd on a normal basis. Whats wrong with you lately?

I'm giving you positive reps for this one....... finally, some one to call infantrycak out..... show us the real infantrycak.....

thunderkyss · Aug 8, 2006

infantrycak said:
This is another example where the results from the theory should cause the writer to reconsider the methodology. No way you've got a valid methodology if it ranks Carr #2 in the league last year. I suspect if some weighted factor was added in to consider the yards per attempt or nature of the O being run you would find Carr (5.88 ypa) falling significantly and Big Ben rising significantly (8.9 ypa).

I think he was only looking at mistakes, and the lack there of, not counting good decisions..... which is what you'd think, but just counting how many times the bad decisions really hurt your teams chance of winning.

Hutch13 · Aug 8, 2006

What suprises me even more is that jake plummer is on there.

thunderkyss · Aug 8, 2006

Hutch13 said:
What suprises me even more is that jake plummer is on there.

Or that Bret Favre, Donavan McNabb, Matt Hasselback, and I don't know..... Trent Green aren't on that list....

If you throw the ball out there, you are at least giving your team a chance to make a play.... yeah, sometimes you'll get credited with an interception, that wasn't your fault... but you've got to shake it off, and keep chunking it down field...... that's what QBs do.

And if you win the game, fans and media pundits around the country will think you are a god...

TheCD · Aug 8, 2006

I think that you have to take this with a grain of salt (albeit a positive grain). Even though he's rated number two in decision-making, that doesn't mean he's number two in performance. So even though he performed badly, that doesn't necessarily mean he was always making poor decisions. If you're running a two-reciever set, both of them are covered, and the pocket is crumbling around you...if you take a sack, is it necessarily bad? Easily half the time it is...but there are those instances that defenders who weren't in a position to make the sack could have tipped the ball causing even more problems.

There's lots of little decisions that a QB is making out there that most of us don't realize. I think it's a good thing that Carr is seen as an intellegent QB with the right tools. That means that if we get the right coach...he'll be able to do what we expect him to do.

TexansLucky13 said:
Yea, I made that same point when I was dicussing how liberals view Fox news as an extreme conservative news station even though they try to stay as moderate as possible.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I'm a conservative myself, and even though they appear to be "fair and balanced" Rupert Murdoch has said from the beginning that he created the Fox News Network in order to have a conservative news network on television. The best example I can give is off the top of my head is when they used to have the old title for Hannity & Colmes, it would always read: Hannity & Colmes

Just pay attention to any news network...every single one of them has a bias one way or another. It's sad, really.

AcresHomesTexan · Aug 8, 2006

There is much flawed in what Joyner is determining as a bad decision. I propose that no QB in the NFL made as few as 10 bad decisions during any year, much less David Carr.

Also, our headcoach (ex-NFL QB and successful QBcoach/OC) looked at film of Carr and stated that was looking at his primary target too much yet some stats guys obviously look at the same thing and does not come up with the same results.

At the end of the day, who opinion matters the most and whose eye do you trust?

Hulk75 · Aug 8, 2006

One of the major reasons why his option was picked up was because david will do everything he can before he forces the football, and hurts the team, he plays within the scheme, NO use in debating, the guy who wrote this is right.

I dont care what the arguement is Carr does make good decisions with the ball, why do you think his ints were so low on a team that had the worst record in football.

AND GUESS WHAT! 7 or 8 INTs were either tipped by his reciever or tipped at the line, GO back and watch if you think I am lying.

Hulk75 · Aug 8, 2006

ArlingtonTexan said:
There is much flawed in what Joyner is determining as a bad decision. I propose that no QB in the NFL made as few as 10 bad decisions during any year, much less David Carr.

Also, our headcoach (ex-NFL QB and successful QBcoach/OC) looked at film of Carr and stated that was looking at his primary target too much yet some stats guys obviously look at the same thing and does not come up with the same results.

At the end of the day, who opinion matters the most and whose eye do you trust?

The guys that gave him an extention for another 3 years, Bob, Gary and Troy.

jerek · Aug 8, 2006

TexansLucky13 said:
A classic anti-Carr argument. Wonderful.

If any study is conducted where Carr ends up looking good, then the study was obviously flawed.

I call you out on flawed logic instead.

Oh wow ... call out the wrong guy.

TheCD · Aug 8, 2006

Hulk75 said:
AND GUESS WHAT! 7 or 8 INTs were either tipped by his reciever or tipped at the line, GO back and watch if you think I am lying.

I'm a Carr fan myself...but ANY TIME a ball is tipped at the line of scrimmage it's the QB's fault for failing to notice that his passing lane had been obstructed.

the wonger need food · Aug 8, 2006

Hulk75 said:
One of the major reasons why his option was picked up was because david will do everything he can before he forces the football, and hurts the team, he plays within the scheme, NO use in debating, the guy who wrote this is right.

I dont care what the arguement is Carr does make good decisions with the ball, why do you think his ints were so low on a team that had the worst record in football.

AND GUESS WHAT! 7 or 8 INTs were either tipped by his reciever or tipped at the line, GO back and watch if you think I am lying.

Carr's option was picked for a lot of reasons... not all related to football skills.

He doesn't throw a lot of interceptions because he doesn't throw the ball downfield or to the middle of the field.

AcresHomesTexan · Aug 8, 2006

Hulk75 said:
The guys that gave him an extention for another 3 years, Bob, Gary and Troy.

Good...And what have they said this off-season about his performance?

powerfuldragon · Aug 8, 2006

thunderkyss said:
Or that Bret Favre, isn't on that list....

he made some poor decisions last year.

Hulk75 · Aug 8, 2006

I'm a Carr fan myself...but ANY TIME a ball is tipped at the line of scrimmage it's the QB's fault for failing to notice that his passing lane had been obstructed.

Playing DE for I dont know 10+ years I have a good view of batted down balls, batted down balls are nobodys fault its a great play by the dlineman unless the guy is standing in front of you and the QB throws the ball in your face, that is the only time it is the QBs fault, Lord Help me! WR dropping balls, WRs fault thats it.

Carr's option was picked for a lot of reasons... not all related to football skills.

He doesn't throw a lot of interceptions because he doesn't throw the ball downfield or to the middle of the field.

Not all football related? Not all football related!!!!!! This is the freaking NFL not pee wee buddy buddy 2 hands on the back football, if thought he could not cut it for any football reason he would not be here, if he was so bad as some of you say he would not have a job in the NFL right now, maybe as a back up!!!!! BUT guess what I guess a head coach that that has many Superbowl rings thought he has the stuuf to be one of the best.
Anyone want to take stab for the 1,000,000,000 time why he could not throw the ball deep and or down the middle last year?

Good...And what have they said this off-season about his performance?

Let me see what I can find :cool:

..............

That didn't take long at all," Kubiak says of his Carr diagnosis. "You say, 'This is what I want: a great kid who's athletic and can make every throw.' Well, there he is. He's standing right there. It's easy in the business to say I don't think this guy can do it, let's go get another one. We don't want to do things easy."

Just walking out on the field, actually believing in the system, having coaches that believe in you It really feels like there's no way you're going to fail if you do it right," Carr says

"David hasn't performed to his ability yet," owner Bob McNair says. "I felt that with Gary, he could really elevate David's performance. I think that was the deciding factor (in hiring Kubiak)."

"We have a quarterback, we feel, who can take us to the next level," Kubiak says. "He's got a lot of time invested, too. He's got four years busting his (rear end). To give up on that, to me, is a mistake. This kid has put in a tremendous amount of work, and he's ready to play his best football over the next six or seven years."

Coach Gary Kubiak called David Carr the "most improved" player on the team after minicamp season.

"I think David's going to have a great season," McNair said recently. "I think the new system fits him perfectly.

"David's been a class act despite experiencing some rough times and getting a lot of criticism. I think he's held up very well. And I think we'd all agree that David's tough, and he's got tremendous ability."

Click to expand...

"I was excited about how David came back today," Kubiak said after Friday's practice. "I was concerned because you worry about how you come back the first day and how much you let go and all the work you did this summer.

"I thought David retained that well. His feet were good. His eyesight (vision) has to continue to get better, and I'm on him every day.

"He knew what was going on. There was no doubt what was happening. David picked up where he left off in the (offseason program."

Anything else? They probably were just being nice though.

LBC_Justin · Aug 8, 2006

to me this confirms a few points.

1. Football is the ultimate team game. (Big Ben success is the product of the Steelers system, same as Carr is a product of the Texans system. O-line and a defense might has a itty bitty bit to do with success)

2. The Texans didn't take enough shots down field last year.

also....why does everyone make a big deal of Carr running out of bounds with the ball for a 1/2 yard loss and a sack. It is the same thing as an incomplete pass. Big deal.

To me last year wasn't about the high sack total. It was more the CONSTANT pressure Carr was under the whole game and the lack of pressure the opposing team's QB was under.

hollywood_texan · Aug 8, 2006

Hulk75 said:
AND GUESS WHAT! 7 or 8 INTs were either tipped by his reciever or tipped at the line, GO back and watch if you think I am lying.

Tips at the line are Carr's fault.

Tips by the receivers that lead to interceptions are not Carr's fault.

Just a little to consider...

GP · Aug 8, 2006

Well, I just got finished with the other Carr thread...

Looks like I found a new home for the next two weeks.

Just kidding.

I'll sit this one out...since all the anti-Carr guys are so high on parsing stats I guess this stat doesn't fit well into their little agenda.

2nd-best decision maker....this ought to get mauled. I'm not even going to check the previous 33 posts. I already know what's there....................

phan1 · Aug 8, 2006

I'm not really buying into this. Big Ben a bad decision maker? There's no way the steeler win w/o him. I know the Steelers had great talent around Ben, but Ben lead them to the Superbowl, and I don't understand the criticism against him all the time. Were the Steelers a Super-bowl calibure team before Ben? No. End of story. And I thought Carr has a history of not seeing the field very well. This is a load of BS.

Hulk75 · Aug 8, 2006

hollywood_texan said:
Tips at the line are Carr's fault.
Tips by the receivers that lead to interceptions are not Carr's fault.

Just a little to consider...

Tips at the line are great plays/smart plays by DLineman, that cant get to the QB/ for someone to get on here and tell me that knock downs are a QBs fault just shows me their football knowledge.

Read the entire thread before you just type stuff, I have a little experience with batting down footballs.

Sometimes its like teaching kids that have never played football before, it gives you a big headache after a while.

**** UNLESS ******* the QB throws the ball INTO the FACE of the DLineman or into his crouch it is not his fault, period thats it, no discussion, I am telling you from playing thats how it is.

I do, I consider the source every time you post.

Texanfan4ever · Aug 8, 2006

phan1 said:
I'm not really buying into this. Big Ben a bad decision maker? There's no way the steeler win w/o him. I know the Steelers had great talent around Ben, but Ben lead them to the Superbowl, and I don't understand the criticism against him all the time. Were the Steelers a Super-bowl calibure team before Ben? No. End of story. And I thought Carr has a history of not seeing the field very well. This is a load of BS.

Carr didn't see down the field very well, because he only had at best, 1 1/2 seconds and he was on his back. What is it you do not understand?

The Dude Abides · Aug 8, 2006

phan1 said:
I'm not really buying into this. Big Ben a bad decision maker? There's no way the steeler win w/o him. I know the Steelers had great talent around Ben, but Ben lead them to the Superbowl, and I don't understand the criticism against him all the time. Were the Steelers a Super-bowl calibure team before Ben? No. End of story. And I thought Carr has a history of not seeing the field very well. This is a load of BS.

Check his stats from the Super Bowl. They won that one with a terrible Ben.

thunderkyss · Aug 8, 2006

PowerfulDragon said:
he made some poor decisions last year.

Bret has always made poor decisions..... never stopped him from being known as a winning QB......

bayoudreamn · Aug 8, 2006

thunderkyss said:
Bret has always made poor decisions..... never stopped him from being known as a winning QB......

I haven't watched him consistently enough to know, but isn't his reputation based on his leadership and clutch play more than every down performance?

infantrycak · Aug 8, 2006

thunderkyss said:
Bret has always made poor decisions..... never stopped him from being known as a winning QB......

And a big part of that was playing under coaches who were willing to take the risk and not stifle the good because of the bad--it was a synergy.

TwinSisters · Aug 8, 2006

KC Joyner has been saying Carr is as good as Manning for three years now. And low and behold guess who endorses his products?

Charles Casserly.

thunderkyss · Aug 8, 2006

Hulk75 said:
Tips at the line are great plays/smart plays by DLineman, that cant get to the QB/ for someone to get on here and tell me that knock downs are a QBs fault just shows me their football knowledge.

Read the entire thread before you just type stuff, I have a little experience with batting down footballs.

Sometimes its like teaching kids that have never played football before, it gives you a big headache after a while.

**** UNLESS ******* the QB throws the ball INTO the FACE of the DLineman or into his crouch it is not his fault, period thats it, no discussion, I am telling you from playing thats how it is.

I do, I consider the source every time you post.

Then enlighten us who have never played before.... what's the point in choosing passing lanes.... or having a high release, or trying to change a sidearm throwing motion??

infantrycak · Aug 8, 2006

thunderkyss said:
Then enlighten us who have never played before.... what's the point in choosing passing lanes.... or having a high release, or trying to change a sidearm throwing motion??

C'mon--take this out of the context of Carr and try to be objective about any old QB. Some knockdowns will be the "fault" of the QB if he throws it into an unengaged DLmen looking at him with time to reposition prior to being sacked. Some will be the ordinary gamble of trying to get the ball over a variety of engaged DLmen, one of whom manages to get a paw in the air at the right time and place. Remove the Carr agenda and it really is that simple--some can be avoided, some can't. The OLmen are also generally supposed to keep their guys engaged so they can't jump and that breaks down as well.

The primary problem with a sidearm delivery is inaccuracy left to right in addition to inaccuracy inherent to either on distance.

bayoudreamn · Aug 8, 2006

thunderkyss said:
Then enlighten us who have never played before.... what's the point in choosing passing lanes.... or having a high release, or trying to change a sidearm throwing motion??

It gives coaches something to do while they stand around in 110 degree heat wearing a sweatshirt. :shades:

infantrycak · Aug 8, 2006

infantrycak said:
This is another example where the results from the theory should cause the writer to reconsider the methodology. No way you've got a valid methodology if it ranks Carr #2 in the league last year. I suspect if some weighted factor was added in to consider the yards per attempt or nature of the O being run you would find Carr (5.88 ypa) falling significantly and Big Ben rising significantly (8.9 ypa).

Man this is great--I get accused of being a Carr :homer:

and having an anti-Carr agenda in the same week (Thanks Revolution for not bothering to read the MB much or heck even the whole thread but still feeling the urge to hit the negative rep button). Now I know I am on the right track if I am po'ing all the extremists.

phan1 · Aug 8, 2006

Texanfan4ever said:
Carr didn't see down the field very well, because he only had at best, 1 1/2 seconds and he was on his back. What is it you do not understand?

I'm saying that either way, Carr can't be considered the 2nd best decision maker in the NFL. That stat just doesn't make sense. So even if you're right and he doesn't get a chance to see the field and make good decisions, but yet he's still listed #2? WTF. I guess taking a sack qualifies as a "good decision" rather than throwing it into tight coverage. If that's true than he should be by far the best decision maker to ever play the game. :sarcasm:

I'm just sying that these stats don't make sense and is not a good measure of how good you're QB is. I'm a total Carr supporter, but I'm not a freakin idiot.

As for Big Ben, all I know is that there is a clear difference in the team when he's playing and when he's not. I guess that means that Maddox and Parker were just that terrible? He's listed as one of the worst decision makers, yet he's unquestionably going to be 'the man' for the Steeler for a very long time. Like I said, BOGUS STATS!

Kaiser Toro · Aug 8, 2006

TwinSisters said:
KC Joyner has been saying Carr is as good as Manning for three years now. And low and behold guess who endorses his products?

Charles Casserly.

Now where did you hear that? Are you suggesting that Cass subscribed to KC's service and filled the Texans roster like he would fill his fantasy team (the CASSanovas)?

thunderkyss · Aug 8, 2006

infantrycak said:
C'mon--take this out of the context of Carr and try to be objective about any old QB. Some knockdowns will be the "fault" of the QB if he throws it into an unengaged DLmen looking at him with time to reposition prior to being sacked. Some will be the ordinary gamble of trying to get the ball over a variety of engaged DLmen, one of whom manages to get a paw in the air at the right time and place. Remove the Carr agenda and it really is that simple--some can be avoided, some can't. The OLmen are also generally supposed to keep their guys engaged so they can't jump and that breaks down as well.

The primary problem with a sidearm delivery is inaccuracy left to right in addition to inaccuracy inherent to either on distance.

Dude get off it...... my post has nothing to do with Carr........ like you, I'm saying sometimes it is the QBs fault....... sometimes, it is the DEs stellar play.

Same with a reciever tipping the ball....... sometimes the inaccurate QB led the recievers too much.... sometimes the reciever has concrete gloves, and sometimes there was a good play by a DB.

David Carr 2nd best decision maker?

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Go Texans!

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Just win baby!!!

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