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Reggie or Mario ??

BroussardSaint said:
WOW! if i had the time i would read blogs by as many females as i could. but it won;t happen. my post was a simple question. but as the norm on Texans sites is that most are insecure and would rather turn the attention on other teams failures ETC... I AM a fan of the Texans but find it funny how Ya'll want to focus on other teams.
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Just because we're Texans fans, that doesn't mean we all act the same. We've been hearing about Bush longer than you guys have, so we may know JUST A BIT more than y'all. Back on topic, Williams should have a bigger impact as good DE's have more of an impact than RB/WRs like Bush.
 
BroussardSaint said:
WOW! if i had the time i would read blogs by as many females as i could. but it won;t happen. my post was a simple question. but as the norm on Texans sites is that most are insecure and would rather turn the attention on other teams failures ETC... I AM a fan of the Texans but find it funny how Ya'll want to focus on other teams.
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I grew up in Louisiana. I'm well aware of the Saints history so I don't consider myself to be picking on a team I'm not familiar with. I watched the Saints, and hoped, until the Texans inaugural season.....then finally had enough of the Saints.
 
Williams will, Bush is stuck behind McAllister who was a great back before he got injured. You can only make so much of an impact when you split carries. Mario gets to start from day 1 and will anchor our new defense with Ryans and Robinson.
 
Mario Williams because he has no one in his way of stoping him unlike Bush who has to split Carries with Deuce.
 
I still wonder about RB's ability to carry the load. He's never done that before. Also, why would you want to pay #2 overall $$ to a part-time back? Will he be a wideout also? I haven't been able to find out much about him because the sAints shut down their fan message boards because of, well, the fans inability to act in accordance with the norms of society. ANYWAY, how's he looking? Is he splitting time between RB and any other positions?
 
[[Gary Kubiak]] said:
Bush is a good player, but we needed help on defense bad. Mario was the clear choice for us. I think bush would have given us numbers, but mario will give us wins because he will improve everybody on the defense.


:hunter:
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Good post
 
I need to wait to see both of them play in at least one game before i make an assumption. Otherwise, i'd just be guessing.
 
Honestly, I think Bush will make a bigger impact at first, but there are questions and Mario will outlast him. In the end, it may be a toss up as to who was the better player (after Mario finally finishes his career), but Mario was probably the better choice for us. We're switching to the 4-3 and we have DD and a zone blocking scheme. We need Mario more.
 
I think Bush will have a rookie year full of inconsistency mixed with a few moments of greatness. After that, he will be a regular on Sportscenter just like at USC and will be one of the most dangerous men in the game and will probably be anong the leaders in total yards. In about 6 or years his body will start to break down and he'll need to become what Marshall Faulk was the last couple of seasons (don't know if his ego will let him share the rock). Bush IMO is the Michael Vick of RBs.

Mario keeps getting compared to Peppers, but he is really more like Reggie White. He will never get the hype White had because he isn't as vocal. I expect his sack numbers will be a little disappointing to some becuase he won't be asked to pin his ears back on every play like Dwight Freeney, but he will be in the top 5 in the league in sacks for about a decade.

Bush will sell more gear, but he's a shooting star. Give me Mario.
 
BroussardSaint said:
well i hope ya'll don't all act the same. cause i got beat up once in houston for wearing stretchy pants... LOL:redtowel:
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I apologize for that......... I was having a bad day.

Back to the original question.

Duece should count for 2000 yards of offense for ya...... 1600 on the ground, 400 recieving.

Joe Horn...... should count for 1000 yards recieving......and then some
Stalworth..... another 1000, unless you cut him.... I wouldn't imagine it, but I wouldn't put it past ya...

Boo Williams, Zach Hilton, Ernie Cornwell........ you normally get 500+ yards out of your tightends....

The only way Bush can make an impact on your team, is if all those guys hit those numbers, in addition to what Reggie Does.....

So lets say the Saints rush for over 2000 yards, and Reggie counted for 500 of that....... is that a big impact?? I don't think so......

Lets say Duece get's hurt........ and Reggie rushes for 1300 yards.... is that a big impact?? only if a) Michael Bennette proved to be useless, or b) Michael Bennette gets hurt again...

Same goes for your recieving Core..... I already see 4000 yards for Drew Brees. To throw Reggie in there, he'll have to throw for more than 4000..... not likely to happen... so, somebody has to get hurt, and Reggie has to take up their slack..... because if Reggie's numbers go up, and someone else's goes down, then he's not adding anything the team didn't already have... not making an impact. If you're getting 2000 recieving yards out of your recievers, and after adding Reggie, you are still getting 2000 recieving yards, he's made no impact....

now we were ranked 30th against the pass, and 31st against the run(something god awful like that)......... if we move up to mid league...... 15 or 16 range and/or top 10 total defense, then we're all going to give a little credit to the 4-3(as opposed to the 3-4) and a lot to the big guy.
 
thunderkyss said:
I apologize for that......... I was having a bad day.

Back to the original question.

Duece should count for 2000 yards of offense for ya...... 1600 on the ground, 400 recieving.

Joe Horn...... should count for 1000 yards recieving......and then some
Stalworth..... another 1000, unless you cut him.... I wouldn't imagine it, but I wouldn't put it past ya...

Boo Williams, Zach Hilton, Ernie Cornwell........ you normally get 500+ yards out of your tightends....

The only way Bush can make an impact on your team, is if all those guys hit those numbers, in addition to what Reggie Does.....

So lets say the Saints rush for over 2000 yards, and Reggie counted for 500 of that....... is that a big impact?? I don't think so......

Lets say Duece get's hurt........ and Reggie rushes for 1300 yards.... is that a big impact?? only if a) Michael Bennette proved to be useless, or b) Michael Bennette gets hurt again...

Same goes for your recieving Core..... I already see 4000 yards for Drew Brees. To throw Reggie in there, he'll have to throw for more than 4000..... not likely to happen... so, somebody has to get hurt, and Reggie has to take up their slack..... because if Reggie's numbers go up, and someone else's goes down, then he's not adding anything the team didn't already have... not making an impact. If you're getting 2000 recieving yards out of your recievers, and after adding Reggie, you are still getting 2000 recieving yards, he's made no impact....
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What is this fascination with stats??? If Reggie Bush Gets One yard A game...But that one yard a game scores the game winning TD...Has he made no impact? He may take away from other players yardage, but that doesn't mean he hasn't made an impact....Thats ridiculous...I guess the same can be said about Mario then...If he doesn't add any more tackles or sacks than we had last year then he's made no impact...or if someone elses sack numbers go down, while his go up he hasn't added anything else we already didn't have....This double standard is crazy...Mario will make an impact that doesn't show up in stats..Double teams, taking up blockers..and Bush will make an impact in other ways as well....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
What is this fascination with stats??? If Reggie Bush Gets One yard A game...But that one yard a game scores the game winning TD...Has he made no impact? He may take away from other players yardage, but that doesn't mean he hasn't made an impact....Thats ridiculous...I guess the same can be said about Mario then...If he doesn't add any more tackles or sacks than we had last year then he's made no impact...or if someone elses sack numbers go down, while his go up he hasn't added anything else we already didn't have....This double standard is crazy...Mario will make an impact that doesn't show up in stats..Double teams, taking up blockers..and Bush will make an impact in other ways as well....
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Statistically speaking, I have to agree with you. :cool:
I just can't see 4,000 yds. for Brees with him coming off of shoulder surgery. 3,000 would be a good year for him.
 
Initially Mario Williams will have a bigger impact because he will be the designated started, whereas Bush will be a 3rd down type back and special teams player. It may turn out that McAllister will not be the same with his injury or may get hurt again, but Bush is clearly playing 2nd fiddle going into camp. In a couple of years however, Bush may be the only starter and should have a bigger impact considering he would touch the ball more and directly score points.
 
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the man who would be our saviour is going to be playing 2nd fiddle on a team that was just as bad last year? If he's that dang good, he should be an auto. starter WHEREVER he goes. Deuce is good, but has he ever been called the wonderful things RB has? Just wonderin...I'm gonna go rant on another thread now.
 
AFD1717 said:
Mario keeps getting compared to Peppers, but he is really more like Reggie White. He will never get the hype White had because he isn't as vocal. I expect his sack numbers will be a little disappointing to some becuase he won't be asked to pin his ears back on every play like Dwight Freeney, but he will be in the top 5 in the league in sacks for about a decade.

Bush will sell more gear, but he's a shooting star. Give me Mario.
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There will never be another Reggie White. And you guys cant be serious. A defensive end over a running back? Ive never seen a defensive lineman carry a team like a running back
 
If the Saints use him properly, then Bush will have a bigger impact. I suspect they won't, and/or he will hold out, and for that reason, I will choose Mario. It's too bad he wasn't drafted by a real NFL team that actually needs a RB/WR combo and knows how to use him, as his talent may be wasted on the Aints.
 
Eagles78 said:
Ive never seen a defensive lineman carry a team like a running back
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Reggie White wasn't more of an impact to the packers than their running back at the time of their superbowls...???
 
Eagles78 said:
There will never be another Reggie White. And you guys cant be serious. A defensive end over a running back? Ive never seen a defensive lineman carry a team like a running back
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Yeah, I can remember all the Superbowls Barry Sanders won for the Lions.:sarcasm:
 
Eagles78 said:
There will never be another Reggie White. And you guys cant be serious. A defensive end over a running back? Ive never seen a defensive lineman carry a team like a running back
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I remember watching an old NFL films program on Reggie White a few weeks ago. Basically, no one wanted to play in Green Bay until he showed up. He took that team from bad to Superbowl. I do find it ironic though that you mention how great Reggie White was, yet wonder how a DE can make more of an impact than a RB.
 
At the end of the year the stats could be mis-leading, it may go like this

Mario Williams-38 tackles, 7 sacks, 16 assists, 2FF
Reggie Bush-152 carries 716 yards 23 rec. 245 yards
it may look like Reggie had the greater year, but depending on where the Texans d ranks depends on everything
But an offensive player will almost always have a bigger impact than a defensive player.
 
DocBar said:
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the man who would be our saviour is going to be playing 2nd fiddle on a team that was just as bad last year? If he's that dang good, he should be an auto. starter WHEREVER he goes. Deuce is good, but has he ever been called the wonderful things RB has? Just wonderin...I'm gonna go rant on another thread now.
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Good point. All we heard prior to the draft was that when a player like Bush comes available, you take him regardless of need. It will be interesting to see how he pans out for the Saints since they didn't need a RB either.
 
Texans86 said:
I remember watching an old NFL films program on Reggie White a few weeks ago. Basically, no one wanted to play in Green Bay until he showed up. He took that team from bad to Superbowl. I do find it ironic though that you mention how great Reggie White was, yet wonder how a DE can make more of an impact than a RB.
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He is an Eagles fan. What the hell does he know?!:chicken:
 
Eagles78 said:
There will never be another Reggie White. And you guys cant be serious. A defensive end over a running back? Ive never seen a defensive lineman carry a team like a running back
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I guess you need to send some postcards to all 32 teams about the value of RB's compared to DLmen since DT's get paid only slightly less than RB's (about $350K) and DE's get paid about 36% more or $2.3 mil per year based on the franchise tag numbers.
 
D-Vizzl said:
At the end of the year the stats could be mis-leading, it may go like this

Mario Williams-38 tackles, 7 sacks, 16 assists, 2FF
Reggie Bush-152 carries 716 yards 23 rec. 245 yards
it may look like Reggie had the greater year, but depending on where the Texans d ranks depends on everything
But an offensive player will almost always have a bigger impact than a defensive player.
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Then why does the saying go: DEFENSE wins championships? I think a more succint way to phrase that would be that an offensive ball handler produces stats at a higher rate than any one defender. I completely agree with the 1st part of the post, though.
 
DocBar said:
[/U][/B]
Then why does the saying go: DEFENSE wins championships? I think a more succint way to phrase that would be that an offensive ball handler produces stats at a higher rate than any one defender. I completely agree with the 1st part of the post, though.
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I feel what you're saying but Mario Williams couldn't be on the field or do enough to directly himself impact a championship. Basically most who watch a game won't remember the third down stop that Mario had to force a punt, but they will remember the 5 yard Td run of Bush with 2 min. left in the fourth. Also Bush's receiving skills give the Saints a better chance to stretch the field only making his stock rise that much more, and giving him more plays (chances) to make a bigger impact.
 
D-Vizzl said:
I feel what you're saying but Mario Williams couldn't be on the field or do enough to directly himself impact a championship. Basically most who watch a game won't remember the third down stop that Mario had to force a punt, but they will remember the 5 yard Td run of Bush with 2 min. left in the fourth. Also Bush's receiving skills give the Saints a better chance to stretch the field only making his stock rise that much more, and giving him more plays (chances) to make a bigger impact.
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Who remembers what is hardly important. There is a slew of defensive plays and players who win games and even make the highlights on ESPN. Mario will get 50-60 plays a game(???) and how many will RB get platooning with Duece? And out of those plays, how many touches? I hate to say it, but a good slobberknockin by a full grown NFL player just might change ole RB's tune. He never got hit in college like he's gonna get hit in the bigs. He might go P-burnt on Brees and "ole" the handoff.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
What is this fascination with stats??? If Reggie Bush Gets One yard A game...But that one yard a game scores the game winning TD...Has he made no impact? He may take away from other players yardage, but that doesn't mean he hasn't made an impact....Thats ridiculous...I guess the same can be said about Mario then...If he doesn't add any more tackles or sacks than we had last year then he's made no impact...or if someone elses sack numbers go down, while his go up he hasn't added anything else we already didn't have....This double standard is crazy...Mario will make an impact that doesn't show up in stats..Double teams, taking up blockers..and Bush will make an impact in other ways as well....
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NO one is going to Canton without stats to back up(justify) the trip......

live with it.

If we have less sacks as a team than we had last year, Mario made no impact....... especially if we are still ranked in the bottom quarter of NFL teams on defense....... against the run, against the pass, and total.

If Mario gets 5 sacks all year, and TJ gets 16, then Mario made no more impact than Gary Walker did...... how do we know TJ wouldn't have got that 16 if GW had been here?? Of course, you can also look at the situational stats, and compare how he did with, and without Mario in the game, beside him, or something.

To totally ignore the stats is goofy.......... if Reggie Bush has one touchdown all year, and the Saints average 5 a game, then having Reggie Bush doesn't mean squat........

With the team the Saints have, Brees is going to have to work at not getting 4000 yards...... but since Duece, Stallworth, and Joe Horn get big yards after the catch, he may only throw for 2900............ it'll just look like 4000, if you only look at the stats.
 
thunderkyss said:
NO one is going to Canton without stats to back up(justify) the trip......

live with it.

If we have less sacks as a team than we had last year, Mario made no impact....... especially if we are still ranked in the bottom quarter of NFL teams on defense....... against the run, against the pass, and total.

If Mario gets 5 sacks all year, and TJ gets 16, then Mario made no more impact than Gary Walker did...... how do we know TJ wouldn't have got that 16 if GW had been here?? Of course, you can also look at the situational stats, and compare how he did with, and without Mario in the game, beside him, or something.

To totally ignore the stats is goofy.......... if Reggie Bush has one touchdown all year, and the Saints average 5 a game, then having Reggie Bush doesn't mean squat........
With the team the Saints have, Brees is going to have to work at not getting 4000 yards...... but since Duece, Stallworth, and Joe Horn get big yards after the catch, he may only throw for 2900............ it'll just look like 4000, if you only look at the stats.
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Um... lot's of teams use bigger backs to score in goal line situations. If RB scores only one but averages over 100yds. per game did he still not do squat?
Also, the Texans struggled to get 16 sacks as a TEAM WITH GW. I know...whole different system and coaches...if the DL opposite of MW have great stats, did MW do squat or did he change the direction the offenses were running? Lots of ways to look at those scenarios, but good points.
 
DocBar said:
Who remembers what is hardly important. There is a slew of defensive plays and players who win games and even make the highlights on ESPN. Mario will get 50-60 plays a game(???) and how many will RB get platooning with Duece? And out of those plays, how many touches? I hate to say it, but a good slobberknockin by a full grown NFL player just might change ole RB's tune. He never got hit in college like he's gonna get hit in the bigs. He might go P-burnt on Brees and "ole" the handoff.
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The people who will get on this and other sites and blast Williams if they only look at stats and not the game is very important. Those people will start to seep into the minds of others and "BOOM" David Carr. I agree with most things that you are saying but at the same time Mario Williams may go off in the first couple of weeks and then get keyed in on and not put up the stats, but help everyone elses stats go up--that's impact but unless you are an "in the trenches" type of football watcher it will fly over some heads. I look at a player like Julius Peppers who had a heck of a first year, but their D was ranked 23rd and they only won a few games-is that greater impact than Carr who led an expansion team to 4 wins and put up crappy stats-eye of the beholder.
 
Porky said:
If the Saints use him properly, then Bush will have a bigger impact. I suspect they won't, and/or he will hold out, and for that reason, I will choose Mario. It's too bad he wasn't drafted by a real NFL team that actually needs a RB/WR combo and knows how to use him, as his talent may be wasted on the Aints.
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They do have a new coach, and he doesn't owe McAllister anything. If it were me, and I wanted a scatback in my offense, then Reggie would be getting the "Starter" tag......... and I would be telling my GM to find a way to make the McAllister trade work...... since I've already got Reggie, and Bennette..... and McAllister is a bit injury prone.

Duece's Value may never be as high as it is right now....... trying to trade him after another injury with his contract may look even worse than it does now.

But you don't want to get rid of a back like Duece, till you know you've got a good replacement, or you have to.
 
I think Mario will have the better year even though it may look as if Bush does. Bush will probably have 2-3 great plays in every game,that will be shown over and over on ESPN so they can back their pre draft ramblings. However in Marios case I don't think he will have great plays every game,yet he will change the course of every game with his solid play. Whether it be a tackle for loss,QB hurries or sacks,or just shutting down the run. This in turn will improve the rest of the D's play making it a TEAM effort,therefore no individual recognition yet W's for the team.
 
thunderkyss said:
NO one is going to Canton without stats to back up(justify) the trip......

live with it.

If we have less sacks as a team than we had last year, Mario made no impact....... especially if we are still ranked in the bottom quarter of NFL teams on defense....... against the run, against the pass, and total.

If Mario gets 5 sacks all year, and TJ gets 16, then Mario made no more impact than Gary Walker did...... how do we know TJ wouldn't have got that 16 if GW had been here?? Of course, you can also look at the situational stats, and compare how he did with, and without Mario in the game, beside him, or something.

To totally ignore the stats is goofy.......... if Reggie Bush has one touchdown all year, and the Saints average 5 a game, then having Reggie Bush doesn't mean squat........

With the team the Saints have, Brees is going to have to work at not getting 4000 yards...... but since Duece, Stallworth, and Joe Horn get big yards after the catch, he may only throw for 2900............ it'll just look like 4000, if you only look at the stats.
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What are you saying...Your argument can be used against every rookie or new player added to any team...Why add players then...Why not sign everyone to a lifetime contract....And who's talking about canton...Im talking about winning games, winning superbowls...and to accomplish that, stats are irrelevant...My point is that at the end of the year stats don't neccessarily tell the story of the season...i.e...Reggie gets ends the year with...20 rushing yards...and 7 touchdowns...If all of those TD's are game winners has he not made a difference....and if Mario ends up with 5 sacks and 12 tackles and those five sacks resulted in game stopping drives for the oposition, has he not made a difference ? I never said totally ignore stats, it just seems that that is your be all end all when it comes to judging which player will have the biggest impact..which is odd coming from a team that picked a DE with the 1st overall pick...Mario's biggest impact wont be from his stats IMO, just him being on the field will benifit everyone else around him which = IMPACT...
 
DocBar said:
Um... lot's of teams use bigger backs to score in goal line situations. If RB scores only one but averages over 100yds. per game did he still not do squat?
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MAN LAW 152: AMENDMENT 7a
You can not use a stat to argue that stats are useless.........
 
thunderkyss said:
MAN LAW 152: AMENDMENT 7a
You can not use a stat to argue that stats are useless.........
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Are you saying I'm in touch with my feminine side? The stats and ME are against it, there scooter.
:pigfly:
EDIT: I MIGHT be. I'm trying to decide between ice cream and watermelon for dinner tonight. Heck, I might be pregnant!!!
 
thunderkyss said:
MAN LAW 152: AMENDMENT 7a
You can not use a stat to argue that stats are useless.........
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Stats aren't useless...They serve a purpose...They just serve no purpose when analyzing a players talent or ability to positively impact a game...because even if (your scenario) brees threw for 4000 and bush rushed for 1200 but they only won 3 games...In which bush happened to not play in...what is his impact then ???? How can you look at stats on a piece of paper and tell me which player had the biggest impact/ no impact ?? What if a player has no tackles but blocked two extra points and his team wins by two??? Because he didn't fill up the stat column he didn't have an impact ?
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Stats aren't useless...They serve a purpose...They just serve no purpose when analyzing a players talent or ability to positively impact a game...because even if (your scenario) brees threw for 4000 and bush rushed for 1200 but they only won 3 games...In which bush happened to not play in...what is his impact then ???? How can you look at stats on a piece of paper and tell me which player had the biggest impact/ no impact ?? What if a player has no tackles but blocked two extra points and his team wins by two??? Because he didn't fill up the stat column he didn't have an impact ?
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Dude, you need to seriously think about your caffeine intake. :francis:
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
What are you saying...Your argument can be used against every rookie or new player added to any team...Why add players then...Why not sign everyone to a lifetime contract....And who's talking about canton...Im talking about winning games, winning superbowls...and to accomplish that, stats are irrelevant...My point is that at the end of the year stats don't neccessarily tell the story of the season...i.e...Reggie gets ends the year with...20 rushing yards...and 7 touchdowns...If all of those TD's are game winners has he not made a difference....and if Mario ends up with 5 sacks and 12 tackles and those five sacks resulted in game stopping drives for the oposition, has he not made a difference ? I never said totally ignore stats, it just seems that that is your be all end all when it comes to judging which player will have the biggest impact..which is odd coming from a team that picked a DE with the 1st overall pick...Mario's biggest impact wont be from his stats IMO, just him being on the field will benifit everyone else around him which = IMPACT...
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no....... not every player is going to be going to a team with an offense like the Saints, where everyone(hyperbole) puts up proBowl numbers every year.

& you can't sign everyone to lifetime contracts, especially if their stats don't back it up.

If Mario ends up with 5 sacks, and 12 tackles, I gaurantee, all the comparisons to Julius Peppers, and Reggie White will stop. Regardless of what impact he has on the team........ If Mario doesn't command a double team, then he'll have no more an impact that Gary Walker did in our 3-4.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Stats aren't useless...They serve a purpose...They just serve no purpose when analyzing a players talent or ability to positively impact a game...because even if (your scenario) brees threw for 4000 and bush rushed for 1200 but they only won 3 games...In which bush happened to not play in...what is his impact then ???? How can you look at stats on a piece of paper and tell me which player had the biggest impact/ no impact ?? What if a player has no tackles but blocked two extra points and his team wins by two??? Because he didn't fill up the stat column he didn't have an impact ?
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If the story at the end of the year is: Saints 6-0 when Reggie gets 15 or more touches, and 3-7 when he gets less than 15 touches....

That's a stat, that will show his impact.......

But lets forget all that............

Lets act like someone on a message board asked the question,"who would have the biggest impact for their team........ Mario, or Reggie", and I haven't responded yet.


How would you answer the question??
 
Answer: I would ask for a clearer definition of impact...because there can be negative and positive impact....but assuming you meant a positive football related impact, Id have to say I think Mario....

Even though it is highly likely that i could be wrong...We won't know until we see them play...IMO, Bush isn't going to all of a sudden become sorry and unalbe to perform and put his stamp on a game...And Mario isn't all of a sudden going to become an all world, unstopable force...But i think they will both perform well...Who will warrant the tag of "mr. impact"....i don't know.....
 
First you said Mario, then you said you don't know.

I'll rephrase the question. Who do you think will have more impact, Mario of Reggie??

(I know............ I didn't really re-phrase the question).
 
thunderkyss said:
First you said Mario, then you said you don't know.

I'll rephrase the question. Who do you think will have more impact, Mario of Reggie??

(I know............ I didn't really re-phrase the question).
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No I said I think it will be Mario...Think as in a guess... do I KNOW who it will be??? no...Im not a psychic...or psycho for that matter...(not calling youu a psycho)
 
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