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Marcus Spears on 610

jmerog

jmerog

Waterboy
Former houston LT, Marcus spears was just on 610 and had some interesing points about Carr, Wand. He was High on David as far as his toughness and character and said he was a good teammate. He pointed out that Davis kept getting up and didn't throw his teammates under the bus in the media as some QB's have. He noted that Seth Wand has the physical attributes to be a good LT but said He questions his meanness. I think the wording was that someone needed to put some gunpowder in his food. He said he needed to play with more attitude but He Could be good.
 
I think Spears pointed out something great about Carr. How many QBs these days who are struggling under the same conditions as Carr would have the patience and professionalism to handle it the way Carr has.
 
we all know that carr is tough and honorable... we just need to see how well he can quarterback an offense. we should find out this season.
 
Its still worth mentioning when a former teammate (who has nothing to lose/gain) goes on air and makes a point of saying it.
 
jmerog said:
Its still worth mentioning when a former teammate (who has nothing to lose/gain) goes on air and makes a point of saying it.
Click to expand...

Do you mean no one should say "what do you expect him to say?"
 
I heard the interview, and he's a nice guy. He did have some good insight into DC and Wand, as mentioned.

jmerog said:
Its still worth mentioning when a former teammate (who has nothing to lose/gain) goes on air and makes a point of saying it.
Click to expand...

yep, that's true.

But he does want a job with the Texans media department, so what did you expect him to say? ;) (just kidding, Runner!)
 
El Tejano said:
I think Spears pointed out something great about Carr. How many QBs these days who are struggling under the same conditions as Carr would have the patience and professionalism to handle it the way Carr has.
Click to expand...

I am going to interchange some words from the quote above,

How many head coaches these days who are struggling under the same conditions as Capers would have had the patience and professionalism to handle it the way Capers did.

How fart did Capers get that?

It's about W's and performing, that's it and that's that. Why is it that Terrell Owens can still play in the NFL? The guy is a complete jerk and I am sure no one will argue that point.

I am tired of all this Carr crap, particularly if he is a nice guy, family man, or whatever. He can either win games or not. There are no excuses in football. He isn't paid millions to be a good or nice guy.
 
in his case, yes.

I'm not trying to express an opinion on Carr with this thread. Just reporting on an interview I just heard and noting that Spears is now retired and has no reason not to honestly state his opinion. He also said he expected Kubiacs scheme to work well here and help the team and Carr especially succeed.

He said he thought it strange that he and wand kept swapping out at LT all during games. HE said one would be in for running plays while the other was in for pass plays. I dont remember which was which, maybe someone else will.
That does seem goofy as it would let defenses know whats coming.

BUT

He played in the 7-9 season, which was our best so maybe it worked ok.--naah
 
Double Barrel said:
Spears on passing plays and Wand on running plays.
Click to expand...

They did that for one game about 3/4 of the way through the 2004 season. I think it was the final touch (along with which TE was in) to fully announcing our intentions to the defense. It was a failed experiment and they went back to Wand full time.
 
hollywood_texan said:
I am going to interchange some words from the quote above,

How many head coaches these days who are struggling under the same conditions as Capers would have had the patience and professionalism to handle it the way Capers did.

How fart did Capers get that?

It's about W's and performing, that's it and that's that. Why is it that Terrell Owens can still play in the NFL? The guy is a complete jerk and I am sure no one will argue that point.

I am tired of all this Carr crap, particularly if he is a nice guy, family man, or whatever. He can either win games or not. There are no excuses in football. He isn't paid millions to be a good or nice guy.
Click to expand...
Dude whats your problem with the guy, did he take your girlfriend in high school, is it because he has everything you want............HATER IN THE HOUSE, some people have some consrtuctive things to say about the guy, you just come off as angry and pissed at the world when talking about this dude.

Would it be different if he was a rude guy that tossed people under the bus, yelled at his teammates, beat his wife, killed some body and O he wins games thats all that matters.

Yes his record as a QB is not were it should be but what is Andre Johnsons record as a starter for the Texans and Chester Pitts, Steve McKinney, Domanick Davis, All I am saying for the 1,000,000,000 time is that he could not do it by himself. People on your team should be there to make the catch for you in the clutch or throw just one more block and give him just a few more seconds to get the ball off..............
 
hollywood_texan said:
It's about W's and performing, that's it and that's that. Why is it that Terrell Owens can still play in the NFL? The guy is a complete jerk and I am sure no one will argue that point.

I am tired of all this Carr crap, particularly if he is a nice guy, family man, or whatever. He can either win games or not. There are no excuses in football. He isn't paid millions to be a good or nice guy.
Click to expand...

That he doesn't slag his teammates is a football issue.

I know Captain Obvious should be saying this but here goes:

Football is a team sport.

What rookie would have done well with this scheme, a offensive line with people playing outta position and learning the position on the fly, and all baby receivers, running backs, and most of the tight ends?

As you can tell with what has been said at camp, having veteran leadership really helps player development. We haven't had much of any of that--veterans on the offensive side of the ball that have had success in the league.
 
Hulk75 said:
Dude whats your problem with the guy, did he take your girlfriend in high school, is it because he has everything you want............HATER IN THE HOUSE, some people have some consrtuctive things to say about the guy, you just come off as angry and pissed at the world when talking about this dude.

Would it be different if he was a rude guy that tossed people under the bus, yelled at his teammates, beat his wife, killed some body and O he wins games thats all that matters.

Yes his record as a QB is not were it should be but what is Andre Johnsons record as a starter for the Texans and Chester Pitts, Steve McKinney, Domanick Davis, All I am saying for the 1,000,000,000 time is that he could not do it by himself. People on your team should be there to make the catch for you in the clutch or throw just one more block and give him just a few more seconds to get the ball off..............
Click to expand...

You seem to be the angry one. In addition, making some reference to my dating life in high school is irrelevant to Carr, which is my point. You even go further to say Carr has everything I want. You are taking personal swipes at me and I simply expressing my point of view on Carr's play.

My point was an analogy how Capers was the same way as Carr and Capers was tossed. Why not explain that one?

Look I am sure Carr is great person from everything I have read and is a committed family guy. Which I think is a lot more admirable in life than being successful in the NFL.

But there are subtle truths to life. You either win or you don't. You have heard this one, "nice guys finish last." Both of those items are so true to the NFL.

No one, and I mean no one, gets to be successful in life at that stage by just being a good person. That is how the world works, like it or not.

So calm down and relax.

And remember this when Kubiak benches Carr, it won't be personal, it will be business! Just as my discussion of Carr.
 
Texans_Chick said:
That he doesn't slag his teammates is a football issue.

I know Captain Obvious should be saying this but here goes:

Football is a team sport.

What rookie would have done well with this scheme, a offensive line with people playing outta position and learning the position on the fly, and all baby receivers, running backs, and most of the tight ends?

As you can tell with what has been said at camp, having veteran leadership really helps player development. We haven't had much of any of that--veterans on the offensive side of the ball that have had success in the league.
Click to expand...
Which effects his play..........

Thank the LORD someone else said it besides me all the time...........
 
Texans_Chick said:
That he doesn't slag his teammates is a football issue.

I know Captain Obvious should be saying this but here goes:

Football is a team sport.

What rookie would have done well with this scheme, a offensive line with people playing outta position and learning the position on the fly, and all baby receivers, running backs, and most of the tight ends?

As you can tell with what has been said at camp, having veteran leadership really helps player development. We haven't had much of any of that--veterans on the offensive side of the ball that have had success in the league.
Click to expand...

Texans_Chick, you right really good stuff.

But, I am just hearing excuses about Carr. Why didn't anyone make excuses for Capers? He is just as good a guy as Carr.

Carr, needs to win period. If being a jerk along way happens, no one will care as long as he wins. That is my point.

It doesn't matter if he is nice, it is just an excuse.
 
hollywood_texan said:
How fart did Capers get that?
Click to expand...


Hahahahaha... Fart.



PowerfulDragon said:
Hahahahaha... Fart.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw that when I was reading through it before I posted it and just laughed my ***** off and thought, people might do the same.

So, I didn't change it.

Glad you enjoyed. I did.
 
hollywood_texan said:
I am tired of all this Carr crap, particularly if he is a nice guy, family man, or whatever. He can either win games or not. There are no excuses in football. He isn't paid millions to be a good or nice guy.
Click to expand...


I don't know... we got a long way to go yet to be getting tired. I would take a nap or maybe go watch Daryl Hannah get pried from a walnut tree to recharge. I figure at the current rate... we have around two hundred and six more threads to go on Carr before the season starts. BY then the thread rate should increase by 2 to 3 times the current amount.
---
Spears is saying the same stuff we are saying. He made a point to say he lacks a killer instinct ( or I should say has been lacking ). That's understandable. If you are always a nice guy.. well then you tend to always be a nice guy.

When a guy says you need to cut your breakfast with a little gunpowder and gasoline...thats what that means.
---

The swapping out of tackles to broadcast your play is not that big of deal by itself. If you go 3 WRs or 4 WRs.. that will broadcast a pass as well. Capers could have just as well been trying to lull the defense into playing run and then popping them with a deep pass. Don't know with the information provided... also may have never worked exactly the way they planned because of failed runs or poor pass protection, didn't get the matchups they expected, etc.
 
hollywood_texan said:
You seem to be the angry one. In addition, making some reference to my dating life in high school is irrelevant to Carr, which is my point. You even go further to say Carr has everything I want. You are taking personal swipes at me and I simply expressing my point of view on Carr's play.

My point was an analogy how Capers was the same way as Carr and Capers was tossed. Why not explain that one?

Look I am sure Carr is great person from everything I have read and is a committed family guy. Which I think is a lot more admirable in life than being successful in the NFL.

But there are subtle truths to life. You either win or you don't. You have heard this one, "nice guys finish last." Both of those items are so true to the NFL.

No one, and I mean no one, gets to be successful in life at that stage by just being a good person. That is how the world works, like it or not.
So calm down and relax.

And remember this when Kubiak benches Carr, it won't be personal, it will be business! Just as my discussion of Carr.
Click to expand...
I will let you think what you want, BUT that is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever read, EVERY SINGLE person that has had success has been a tricky, underminding person, a person that tricks other people to get what they want are the people that are successful in this life, a person that is willing to bend the rules is a successful person, somebody willing to lie will get what they want the most are successful............

There was someone else I was going to come to 1st when Carr starts to do well, a little what do you think of him now message, but now you will be the first, so get all your shots at him all you want, cause in 3 months it will change, cause it is the people that are the opposite of what you speak of are the TRUELY SUCCESSFUL ones in this life, so have fun for the next 3 months I will stay right out of your way.:cool:
 
Texans_Chick said:
That he doesn't slag his teammates is a football issue.

I know Captain Obvious should be saying this but here goes:

Football is a team sport.

What rookie would have done well with this scheme, a offensive line with people playing outta position and learning the position on the fly, and all baby receivers, running backs, and most of the tight ends?

As you can tell with what has been said at camp, having veteran leadership really helps player development. We haven't had much of any of that--veterans on the offensive side of the ball that have had success in the league.
Click to expand...




Hulk75 said:
Which effects his play..........

Thank the LORD someone else said it besides me all the time...........
Click to expand...

Here is the deal with all the Carr supporters, they believe Carr hasn't performed because everyone else around him didn't. Therefore, Carr is a good quarterback and should keep his job. No one will argue the talent issue on the offensive line and quality receivers outside of AJ, but it is possible Carr was more of the problem than just being held back.

For example, here is quote about McNair learning the new Ravens system,

"A confused quarterback is usually confronted with a barrage of blitzes. If he's confused about protections, that's when he's going to get whacked," Fassel said.

Apply this quote to Carr's sack problems and think about it. Carr could have really contributed more to the sack problem, basically overwhelming an already talent thin line.

Here is Kubiak's own words on Carr following the conclusion of their mini camp.

"I think he's the most improved player from this offseason," Kubiak said. "From the day we walked out here until today, I really thought he was the most improved. Yet he still has a long way to go.

"The key to David, like any other player — and I've already spent a ton of time with him — David's got to come back and pick up right where he left off. We can't go back and work on things that we were trying to clean up. Nobody's worked harder."

Not exactly a ringing order of endorsement for our 4-year QB veteren. Kind of sounds like he may be fighting for his job early in the season if he doesn't start off well.

So, Texans_Chick, from your post, I take that we basically have a rookie quarterback in Carr.
 
hollywood_texan said:
I am going to interchange some words from the quote above,

How many head coaches these days who are struggling under the same conditions as Capers would have had the patience and professionalism to handle it the way Capers did.

How fart did Capers get that?

It's about W's and performing, that's it and that's that. Why is it that Terrell Owens can still play in the NFL? The guy is a complete jerk and I am sure no one will argue that point.

I am tired of all this Carr crap, particularly if he is a nice guy, family man, or whatever. He can either win games or not. There are no excuses in football. He isn't paid millions to be a good or nice guy.
Click to expand...

I would say that the difference is that there is no doubt that Caper's problems were at least half his own fault, where as Carr's problems were mostly not--bad pass blocking caused by a guard at center and rookie LTs at times, among other things, no legit #2 receiver, the fact that he'd probably have done much better with a pass catching TE, not being allowed to call his own audibles, terribly conservative and predictable play calling, too many dropped passes, etc. I know Carr has made his own mistakes, like running out of bounds, but I think most of it was others not fullfulling their duties and Capers is one of them. I think Carr will be almost shockingly better this year overall and I'll gladly eat my words if he's not.

Having said all that, it's certainly true that Carr's good attitude will not make up for a proven inability to play, especially if he tanks it this coming year (overall). This year is IT.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Texans_Chick, you right really good stuff.

But, I am just hearing excuses about Carr. Why didn't anyone make excuses for Capers? He is just as good a guy as Carr.

Carr, needs to win period. If being a jerk along way happens, no one will care as long as he wins. That is my point.

It doesn't matter if he is nice, it is just an excuse.
Click to expand...

Capers was in charge of the schemes and mostly it seems in charge of personnel. Carr was supposed to do what coaches say--he had no control over scheme or players picked or not picked.

There is no magic pixie dust that means that a QB can will wins if the stuff around him is no good.

And you know what, it DOES matter that he doesn't slag his teammates and mostly kept his composure during some pretty dang difficult times because he could have easily given the circumstances gone all Tim Couch. Or done any number of things that would undermine his role as a starting QB. (He has had any number of times where he could have completely fallen to pieces, and it is admirable that he has kept his stuff together as much as he was given that idiot fan put beer on his prego wife or that he was getting teed off on with the most predictable plays ever).

Yeah, nice isn't enough, but behavior does matter if you want the hope of having longterm success as a NFL QB.
 
Hulk75 said:
I will let you think what you want, BUT that is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever read, EVERY SINGLE person that has had success has been a tricky, underminding person, a person that tricks other people to get what they want are the people that are successful in this life, a person that is willing to bend the rules is a successful person, somebody willing to lie will get what they want the most are successful............

There was someone else I was going to come to 1st when Carr starts to do well, a little what do you think of him now message, but now you will be the first, so get all your shots at him all you want, cause in 3 months it will change, cause it is the people that are the opposite of what you speak of are the TRUELY SUCCESSFUL ones in this life, so have fun for the next 3 months I will stay right out of your way.:cool:
Click to expand...

There is a difference between being succesful in life and the NFL.

You are totally missing my point.

Please remember me so you can put in my face because you seem to be looking forward to it with great anticipation, which is very Christian of you I might add.

I hope the Texans succeed with or without Carr as the QB. I have merely commented on his first four years because they are argueably not even average.

You seem to believe he has been held back, I believe he has been more of the problem.
 
hollywood_texan said:
There is a difference between being succesful in life and the NFL.

You are totally missing my point.

Please remember me so you can put in my face because you seem to be looking forward to it with great anticipation, which is very Christian of you I might add.

I hope the Texans succeed with or without Carr as the QB. I have merely commented on his first four years because they are argueably not even average.

You seem to believe he has been held back, I believe he has been more of the problem.
Click to expand...
Cute have fun, I will see you.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Texans_Chick, you right really good stuff.

But, I am just hearing excuses about Carr. Why didn't anyone make excuses for Capers? He is just as good a guy as Carr.

Carr, needs to win period. If being a jerk along way happens, no one will care as long as he wins. That is my point.

It doesn't matter if he is nice, it is just an excuse.
Click to expand...


Capers lost it last season.. we were on the upswing and the wheels fell off of the wagon both offensively and defensively.. Capers (along with Casserly) had 4 years to draft players and sign players that they wanted ..Capers job is to get players that "fits" his system and Casserly's job is to get the players.. it failed... also possibly was the thing where McNair said about we have to protect our QB ..well we didn't do that either.
 
hollywood_texan said:
There is a difference between being succesful in life and the NFL.

You are totally missing my point.

Please remember me so you can put in my face because you seem to be looking forward to it with great anticipation, which is very Christian of you I might add.

I hope the Texans succeed with or without Carr as the QB. I have merely commented on his first four years because they are argueably not even average.

You seem to believe he has been held back, I believe he has been more of the problem.
Click to expand...


combination of both.. Capers philosophy is great defense, run the ball (I do like that combination BTW) yet our defense couldn't sack anyone and couldn't protect the Qb on offense.. that hurts the team.. why have an offensive philosophy like that when you have patchwork OL and you draft a QB #1 overall and a WR #3 overall.. when you are trying to be run 1st offense. putting a square peg in a round hole IMO

and yes we held Carr back IMO and with the inadequate protection Carr has bad habits and happy feet. He is still looking at the rush instead of looking downfield .. Also game hasn't slowed down for him yet.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Capers was in charge of the schemes and mostly it seems in charge of personnel. Carr was supposed to do what coaches say--he had no control over scheme or players picked or not picked.

There is no magic pixie dust that means that a QB can will wins if the stuff around him is no good.

And you know what, it DOES matter that he doesn't slag his teammates and mostly kept his composure during some pretty dang difficult times because he could have easily given the circumstances gone all Tim Couch. Or done any number of things that would undermine his role as a starting QB. (He has had any number of times where he could have completely fallen to pieces, and it is admirable that he has kept his stuff together as much as he was given that idiot fan put beer on his prego wife or that he was getting teed off on with the most predictable plays ever).

Yeah, nice isn't enough, but behavior does matter if you want the hope of having longterm success as a NFL QB.
Click to expand...

As for who is in charge of schemes and Carr was held back. You can make the same excuse for the guys on the offensive line. They shouldn't be held accountable, they are only told what to do.

For some reason, everyone agrees the offensive line was thin on talent but Carr is off limits, he gets a free pass for what looks like 4 maybe 5 years.

IMO Carr has the physical abilities, but it just doesn't translate to 1st downs or even victories. He has appeared to struggle non stop. In four years, I have never seen him play and thought he was being held back, just more or less a part of the problem.

Maybe he was held back. We'll find out.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Yeah, nice isn't enough, but behavior does matter if you want the hope of having longterm success as a NFL QB.
Click to expand...

That's not true. A lot of QBs are ... Most QBs are... are like coneheads.

Jeff George was not a nice guy ( 15 years ). Bradshaw was a jerk-off ( most of the time ). Boomer and Elway did not get along.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Here is the deal with all the Carr supporters, they believe Carr hasn't performed because everyone else around him didn't. Therefore, Carr is a good quarterback and should keep his job. No one will argue the talent issue on the offensive line and quality receivers outside of AJ, but it is possible Carr was more of the problem than just being held back.

For example, here is quote about McNair learning the new Ravens system,

"A confused quarterback is usually confronted with a barrage of blitzes. If he's confused about protections, that's when he's going to get whacked," Fassel said.

Apply this quote to Carr's sack problems and think about it. Carr could have really contributed more to the sack problem, basically overwhelming an already talent thin line.

Here is Kubiak's own words on Carr following the conclusion of their mini camp.

"I think he's the most improved player from this offseason," Kubiak said. "From the day we walked out here until today, I really thought he was the most improved. Yet he still has a long way to go.

"The key to David, like any other player — and I've already spent a ton of time with him — David's got to come back and pick up right where he left off. We can't go back and work on things that we were trying to clean up. Nobody's worked harder."

Not exactly a ringing order of endorsement for our 4-year QB veteren. Kind of sounds like he may be fighting for his job early in the season if he doesn't start off well.

So, Texans_Chick, from your post, I take that we basically have a rookie quarterback in Carr.
Click to expand...


I am at a loss for speech as there are so many things in your post that are just ill-conceived, strangely deduced and just plain wrong.

I can't refute it. If you hate Carr, you are going to see everything from a Carr-haters perspective. If you love Carr, you are going to see everything from a Carr-lovers perspective.

Personally, I would love to see him succeed this season, but I don't know how this is gonna work out. I figure at this point, I will trust Kubiak's assessment that he is the man.

Geez, how did I allow myself to get dragged into a thread that shouldn't have turned into yet another Carrfest.
 
Hulk75 said:
Cute have fun, I will see you.
Click to expand...

Your are such a nice guy, maybe you should follow Carr's example if you are right. Be the nice guy and take the high road.

You seem to be the opposite of what you preach regarding Carr.

Please remember me if you are right, because I am going to be laughing that you are a hypocrite.
 
TwinSisters said:
That's not true. A lot of QBs are ... Most QBs are... are like coneheads.

Jeff George was not a nice guy ( 15 years ). Bradshaw was a jerk-off ( most of the time ). Boomer and Elway did not get along.
Click to expand...

Imagine what kind of career Jeff George could have had if he wasn't a jerkatola. What a waste.

Few QBs have such huge skills and great teams around them that they can afford to be donkeys.
 
Texans_Chick said:
I am at a loss for speech as there are so many things in your post that are just ill-conceived, strangely deduced and just plain wrong.

I can't refute it.
Click to expand...


Is there a contridiction here?

I am wrong, but you can't explain why?
 
Hulk75 said:
Which effects his play..........

Thank the LORD someone else said it besides me all the time...........
Click to expand...

I usually don't say it because it is so pointless and should be fairly obvious. It is hard to evaluate Carr's play or anyone's play on the offensive side of the ball because the offense was such a freaking cluster. How do you develop a rookie QB with a bunch of other rookies and free agent cast offs and no consistent offensive philosophy?

I Hate Carr/Love Carr threads are the ugliest and most pointless on the MB. I usually try to avoid them.
 
You know what is funny.

One Carr supporter is one thread taking on everyone Carr non-supporter and vice versa.

Has anyone seen this trend too?

It is really interesting.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Here is Kubiak's own words on Carr following the conclusion of their mini camp.

"I think he's the most improved player from this offseason," Kubiak said. "From the day we walked out here until today, I really thought he was the most improved. Yet he still has a long way to go.

"The key to David, like any other player — and I've already spent a ton of time with him — David's got to come back and pick up right where he left off. We can't go back and work on things that we were trying to clean up. Nobody's worked harder."

Not exactly a ringing order of endorsement for our 4-year QB veteren. Kind of sounds like he may be fighting for his job early in the season if he doesn't start off well.
Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, there is another thread from this morning that centers on this very quote and how it has been received as a great positive by many fans. I merely asked a devil's advocate question of "what else is Kubiak going to say at this point", and many folks took exception to it.

I suppose it is all a matter of perception. If you're a Carr supporter, these are great words of encouragement towards his progress and indications of a career season coming up. If you're a Carr hater, then these are not words of a ringing endorsement (and maybe even a sign that he has to start well to keep his job).

And then if you're a realist (like me), you see some positive words about our QB's current development, but not proof that DC is going to have a Pro-Bowl year (at this point - minicamp).
 
Texans_Chick said:
Capers was in charge of the schemes and mostly it seems in charge of personnel. Carr was supposed to do what coaches say--he had no control over scheme or players picked or not picked.

Carr, needs to win period.
Click to expand...

Exactly--that is what makes the Capers for Carr substitution meaningless.

Hollywood--you among others have identified things Carr needs to work on. That's just fine, but when you continually want to characterize anything factoring into Carr's play at all as an excuse it just looks like hating. It is silly not to consider a player within the context he is operating. The fact that the OL schemes were bad is not an excuse--it is a consideration or factor in the overall result. The fact that the playcalling was abysmal is not an excuse--it is a consideration. This Carr has to win thing is silly--it is a team sport.

Did Elway suck in 1990 when the Broncos went 5-11?
Did Marino suck in 1988 when the Dolphins went 6-10?
Aikman in 1997 when the Cowboys went 6-10?
McNair last year going 4-12?
Manning in 2001 going 6-10?

No they were good or great QB's caught on bad teams so didn't hang up W's.

[for anybody tempted, spare me the posts acting as if I am equating Carr to any of the other QB's--no assertion is being made or implied that Carr is equal to any of the named QB's]
 
Double Barrel said:
Interestingly enough, there is another thread from this morning that centers on this very quote and how it has been received as a great positive by many fans. I merely asked a devil's advocate question of "what else is Kubiak going to say at this point", and many folks took exception to it.

I suppose it is all a matter of perception. If you're a Carr supporter, these are great words of encouragement towards his progress and indications of a career season coming up. If you're a Carr hater, then these are not words of a ringing endorsement (and maybe even a sign that he has to start well to keep his job).

And then if you're a realist (like me), you see some positive words about our QB's current development, but not proof that DC is going to have a Pro-Bowl year (at this point - minicamp).
Click to expand...


I agree with you DB.. At this point Kubiak hasn't burned me, so I think positively on what he is saying.. Now I had faith in Dom until the reports of how our defense was getting after it in practice, I really thought we were going to have a stingy D-line.. little did I know it was because the O-Line was worse :crutch:
 
hollywood_texan said:
Is there a contridiction here?

I am wrong, but you can't explain why?
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No contradiction.

I can't refute it because as I suggested, you will just see what you want to see. So there is no point in even trying because it would assume that you are reading for understanding versus reading to just validate your own point of view or to have an argument clinic.

For example, you said:

So, Texans_Chick, from your post, I take that we basically have a rookie quarterback in Carr.
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I never said anything close to that, but because you seem to have something against Carr, through the prism of your point of view, you somehow read that into things.

Carr slam/love fests are pointless. I don't see why we need to have one of these active on every single day. He's the QB unless the coach says otherwise or he gets hurt. It is just the deal. Kubiak seemed to be high enough on him to want to pick up his bonus, so I am just gonna wait and see. I understand why he might not have succeeded in the past--you might want to characterize those things as "excuses", I might see them as just reality.

At some level it gets to be just stupid semantic games, and is just a waste of bandwidth. Seriously, I think the servers would go a lot faster if all pointless is Carr love/hate threads instantly went away. But I don't all that computer stuff, so I might be wrong on that.

I will say that from what I've seen of the offense they are planning to run this year, it should be more suited to Carr's strengths.
 
As far as supporting Carr I see a player that lit it up at fresno state and think if we had taken better care of the offensive side of the ball, he could have grown at the pro level.

and before the Fresno state bashing begins.. isn't that the same confernce that a couple of You-know-who's been playing too?
 
infantrycak said:
Exactly--that is what makes the Capers for Carr substitution meaningless.
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Actually, if you look at the posting that started this whole thing it was about being a nice guy and how that didn't benefit Capers.

It wasn't comparing in the manner you are referring to that would be meaningless.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Actually, if you look at the posting that started this whole thing it was about being a nice guy and how that didn't benefit Capers.

It wasn't comparing in the manner you are referring to that would be meaningless.
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Well I looked at it, but that wasn't what I took from it. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Your are such a nice guy, maybe you should follow Carr's example if you are right. Be the nice guy and take the high road.

You seem to be the opposite of what you preach regarding Carr.

Please remember me if you are right, because I am going to be laughing that you are a hypocrite.
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..........:crying: ...........O.,..,,k.,./A/.,./.Y
 
Texans_Chick said:
Imagine what kind of career Jeff George could have had if he wasn't a jerkatola. What a waste.

Few QBs have such huge skills and great teams around them that they can afford to be donkeys.
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eggghhh... no. Well yes, but no. At least half of the upper crust QBs have been jerks. That's all I am saying here. Not that you have to be an ... thagh.. ( vocabulary failing me ).. a supreme senior vice donkey and general leader to be good, but others have.

So you cannot in good faith say that you have to be of good character to have a long career in the NFL. You would have to have good character and be a nice guy if you didn't have the skills.

Meaning the more skills you got, the better you are, the more of a jerk you can afford to be and still play a long time in the NFL.

and the inverse would be that the less skill you have, the lesser you are, the less of a jerk you can afford to be and still play a long time in the NFL.

Can David Carr afford to be a jerk? ( not saying he should be... just asking could he afford to be one, if he so chose to be )
 
hollywood_texan said:
Actually, if you look at the posting that started this whole thing it was about being a nice guy and how that didn't benefit Capers.

It wasn't comparing in the manner you are referring to that would be meaningless.
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Umm... I thought the original post mentioned Wand not having a mean streak. Something along the lines of he needs gunpowder in his cereal. You made the connection between Carr and Capers being comparable from somebody else's post and substituting the bolded material. Then you went on a semi-rampage about how we don't hold Capers accountable in the same ways as we hold Carr accountable. Well, I'll say this Capers was responsible for everybody on the team. He was the HEAD coach, in charge of those who were supposed to teach our talent and put them in a position to succeed. If Carr is so far behind you have to ask who was teaching him that he didn't learn. I don't know, Palmer and Pendry don't strike me as good teachers. Same thing with the line, how can you expect them to have any success if they don't have anybody guiding them. Capers failed because he failed to bring in the people that would condition the players to win. Carr was conditioned to be what he was, now he along with everyone else is working with new coaches and being re-conditioned. You're right, being a nice person doesn't have jack to do with success, but it doesn't hurt.
 
dat_boy_yec said:
Umm... I thought the original post mentioned Wand not having a mean streak. Something along the lines of he needs gunpowder in his cereal. You made the connection between Carr and Capers being comparable from somebody else's post and substituting the bolded material. Then you went on a semi-rampage about how we don't hold Capers accountable in the same ways as we hold Carr accountable. Well, I'll say this Capers was responsible for everybody on the team. He was the HEAD coach, in charge of those who were supposed to teach our talent and put them in a position to succeed. If Carr is so far behind you have to ask who was teaching him that he didn't learn. I don't know, Palmer and Pendry don't strike me as good teachers. Same thing with the line, how can you expect them to have any success if they don't have anybody guiding them. Capers failed because he failed to bring in the people that would condition the players to win. Carr was conditioned to be what he was, now he along with everyone else is working with new coaches and being re-conditioned. You're right, being a nice person doesn't have jack to do with success, but it doesn't hurt.
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Having said all that, how can you blame the offensive line? They had the same coaching as Carr.

Simple, the overall talent on the offensive line is suspect and everyone agrees on that point.

But, for some reason the same analysis seems to escape Carr.

After reading all that, McNair seems to be completely to blame. Which is probably the case.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Having said all that, how can you blame the offensive line? They had the same coaching as Carr.

Simple, the overall talent on the offensive line is suspect and everyone agrees on that point.

But, for some reason the same analysis seems to escape Carr.

After reading all that, McNair seems to be completely to blame. Which is probably the case.
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I didn't blame the o-line. Wait I take that back If there was one person I had to blame though it would be Milford Brown. He blew too many blocks. I mean the way he messed up had nothing to do with schemes or technique. The guy simply turned away from the guy he was supposed to block and looked like a lost child at the Rodeo carnival. I can't believe nobody else points that out, but I'm ok now. He's gone and things will hopefully be better.

I don't think the analysis escapes Carr, there are plenty of people that can admit Carr needs to improve, at the same time though there are also many other people who want to shift the burden on Carr and it's just happened so much now that it feels like a defensive mechanism. I mean if you look at most of your posts wether you mean to or not they are very reminiscent of other Carr bashing threads.

In a sense he is. Then again he himself is no football genious, he's just a successful businessman that loves the sport and brought it back to Houston. However you have to look at his situation in a differrent manner. His purpose was to make money and he is doing that. He can't do it all alone so he hired people to help him in other areas. You have to put your trust in others to a degree to be successful. Casserly was his first hire and think what you want Capers seemed like the right decision at the time. Nobody was yelling for Capers job at the beginning of last off-season so McNair had no reason to take action at that time. Damn, sorry dude there are a lot of factors with how McNair ran the franchise and you can blame him if you want, but to me he brought football back so I have a much, much higher thresh hold for him than anybody else.
 
there is a clip on NFL.com right now about Aikman, Legends of the Game: Troy Aikman.

I would check it out and see how he is ripping into his team mates. This would be an example of what Carr is suspected of lacking and needing. This would be the reason he is said to be needing gunpowder in his wheaties.
 
TwinSisters said:
---
Spears is saying the same stuff we are saying. He made a point to say he lacks a killer instinct ( or I should say has been lacking ). That's understandable. If you are always a nice guy.. well then you tend to always be a nice guy.

When a guy says you need to cut your breakfast with a little gunpowder and gasoline...thats what that means. ---

.
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He actually said that about wand, not carr. The only HE SAID about Carr that could be negative was that he was not so much of a pocket passer as a bootleg- pass on the go- kind of guy (not that that is nesesarily negative)
He also said that David was going into his fifth year and would need to produce. basically that this was a put up or shut up year for him<--the last sentance was my re-wording. The same thing many on this board have said.
 
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