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PROOF POSITIVE: Our team was badly coached by Capers (SI.com Carr article)

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I've had it with the constant David Carr bashing.

It's all "opinion" until you read this quote from Bob McNair, he's that guy that kinda' runs the team and stuff. So listen up to what the boss man has to say about David Carr in an SI.com article (because it's the only opinion that COUNTS):

-----------------

Would you buy a used Carr from this man? Kubiak did, and McNair says that the six other head coaching candidates he interviewed after firing Capers in late December concurred that the quarterback was salvageable. Says the owner: "I asked all of them, 'Can he take us where we want to go?' And every one of them said, 'Absolutely.'"

SIX OTHER HEAD COACHING CANDIDATES SAID CARR WAS THE MAN FOR THE JOB.

Done.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2474430
 
Sorry, but that doesn't "prove" anything, except that the HC canditates knew that in order to get the job, Carr was part of the package. Knowing that, how many would say to put the Carr in the garage?
 
Porky said:
Sorry, but that doesn't "prove" anything, except that the HC canditates knew that in order to get the job, Carr was part of the package. Knowing that, how many would say to put the Carr in the garage?
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Well since the job pressure response was predictable, I'll add McNair was interviewed on the radio the other day and said not a single person he has talked to connected to any NFL team has said Carr doesn't have what it takes.

Like anything anyone says is going to change anyone's mind around here about Carr at this point. Sorry, I have to go off and hum a Jerry Jeff Walker song about the wind now.
 
Porky said:
Sorry, but that doesn't "prove" anything, except that the HC canditates knew that in order to get the job, Carr was part of the package. Knowing that, how many would say to put the Carr in the garage?
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We've been over this ten thousand times, but I don't know where this comes from ... other than a person's inability to perceive good in Carr and the subsequent necessity of inventing a conspiracy theory for his remaining here.

If we are going to argue on the basis of theory, try this. Bob McNair didn't become filthy rich by holding on to pet friendships or unwillingness to admit "mistakes." He isn't going to risk his multi-multi-multi-million dollar franchise on his golfing buddy. He is a businessman running a very prominent business, and he has gone out of his way to shred his previous management for incompetence, hire outside consultants and a new staff, all of whom strangely agree that David Carr should remain here. This is testament to an ugly truth: that Carr is precisely the caliber of player that Kubiak, every other coach, Bob McNair, me, and I don't even know how many other people have been telling you all along he is.

David Carr has the talent, but previous to this season, he hasn't had the tools to get it done. Now that he has the tools, it is put up or shut up time. I think he will put up, but I respect your right to disagree. I don't respect half-baked conspiracy theories that fly in the face of every shred of logical observation. If you are still upset about Reggie Bush, don't take it out on McNair.

Come on Pork, you're capable of better.
 
Porky said:
Sorry, but that doesn't "prove" anything, except that the HC canditates knew that in order to get the job, Carr was part of the package. Knowing that, how many would say to put the Carr in the garage?
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Porky, right on the money. Almost exactly what I would have said.

I am sure all candidates were coached on what to say and what not say. Also, the interviewer and interviewee of any job say things they don't necessarily mean in order to get the job or applicant. I have done it in every interview, understanding what the interviewer wants and giving it to them. Once in the job, then you can make changes after you win the respcect.

Check this out about McNair going to Baltimore and basically replacing Boller, a first round draft pick,

"Make a mistake on a first-round draft choice at any position and there is a price to pay. Make a bad call on a first-round quarterback, however, and the financial implications are sometimes doubled, because it costs a lot of money to rectify the error."

Here is the link, http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2474430.

IMO, McNair considers he is to far invested in Carr at this point to bail out and Kubiak can provide the final analysis and judgement.

We could very easily be in Balitmore's position this time next year regarding the QB position.

Carr has to get started early this season with either a .500 record or better than good states by the mid-season or he may not build up enough momentum to carryover through the next draft and offseason.
 
jerek said:
We've been over this ten thousand times, but I don't know where this comes from ... other than a person's inability to perceive good in Carr and the subsequent necessity of inventing a conspiracy theory for his remaining here.

If we are going to argue on the basis of theory, try this. Bob McNair didn't become filthy rich by holding on to pet friendships or unwillingness to admit "mistakes." He isn't going to risk his multi-multi-multi-million dollar franchise on his golfing buddy. He is a businessman running a very prominent business, and he has gone out of his way to shred his previous management for incompetence, hire outside consultants and a new staff, all of whom strangely agree that David Carr should remain here. This is testament to an ugly truth: that Carr is precisely the caliber of player that Kubiak, every other coach, Bob McNair, me, and I don't even know how many other people have been telling you all along he is.

David Carr has the talent, but previous to this season, he hasn't had the tools to get it done. Now that he has the tools, it is put up or shut up time. I think he will put up, but I respect your right to disagree. I don't respect half-baked conspiracy theories that fly in the face of every shred of logical observation. If you are still upset about Reggie Bush, don't take it out on McNair.

Come on Pork, you're capable of better.
Click to expand...

If Carr was paid 2nd or 3rd round draft pick money he would have been gone a long time ago.
 
TexanFan881 said:
Like we didn't already know Capers screwed up our team...:)
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No, some of us don't get it.

Like Bobo: He thinks Capers should have stayed, and he's fully convinced that Kubiak will fail because Capers was the man for the job.

And like even one of the best guys on this board who shall remain nameless. He thinks Carr is a waste of player. And like a guy who runs the other Texans message board. He won't let some things die about Carr, he's fed up and he's had it with him.

And when you try to talk REASON with them, and you try to point out very real proof that Carr is the man for the QB job, and that Capers was not the man for the HC job....you get no admission from them whatsoever that McNair just MIGHT be right in his decision making recently.

So, this is why that quote by mcNair is so very crucial. We all speculate about "what" McNair is thinking. Well, he came out and said it. And so did six other HC candidates.

And as far as the argument that says, "Yeah, but the HC candidates were "coached" to say that they felt Carr was the guy. I don't buy it, and it's just MORE of the same from the people who invent things to fit their own gripes about Carr....gripes that mean diddly squat because the guy who holds the keys to this team has got it on pretty good record that Carr is the man, and Kubiak is the man.
 
Carr is the man for the job, because if he wasn't then he would have been a waste of a 1st round pick. McNair wouldn't have given him a 3 year extension on his contract. McNair knew that he did not do a good job in hiring good coaches.

Remember, McNair brought in Dan Reeves to evaluate his football team.
 
hollywood_texan said:
If Carr was paid 2nd or 3rd round draft pick money he would have been gone a long time ago.
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why? we could've cut carr loose without him costing us a penny and started fresh with the qb of kubiak's choosing. we knew when carr was re-signed that we'd have the option of leinhart or young, or could've gone after griese who'd played 5 years under kubiak (at a substancial discount). we willingly spent extra on carr because the coaches & management obviously thought he was the best option.

i know it's the offseason, but it's disheartening to see these conspiracy theories from posters i usually enjoy reading. mcnair wanted carr. reeves wanted carr. casserly wanted carr. kubiak wanted carr. 6 other coaches interviewed wanted carr. and all have made that fact known. seriously, if you dislike the decision or the player, just say so. calling the team you're supposedly rooting for a bunch of liars just makes you look silly.
 
This doesnt prove anything. Carr needs to prove he was worth the #1 pick. And considering the only QB Bob McNair has "owned" is Carr, thats setting the bar kind of low. Time to put up the numbers or let us move on and find another QB. Either way, its going to be a good season.
 
Scooter said:
why?
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Before the $8 million roster payment, they had already paid something $25 million to Carr and they didn't want to bail out on that. That's a big investment to walk away from.

Now, if in the first four years he had only been paid say $10 million with the $8 million dollar roster payment. I think Carr would have been tossed or someone with high ability would be legitimately providing competition to the position.
 
hollywood_texan said:
I am sure all candidates were coached on what to say and what not say. Also, the interviewer and interviewee of any job say things they don't necessarily mean in order to get the job or applicant. I have done it in every interview, understanding what the interviewer wants and giving it to them.
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We aren't talking about applying to be an accountant, secretary, lawyer, etc. where your job performance is the primary measure of your success and where there isn't a turnover for failure of the organization as a whole to become the best or one of the best within 3-4 years (the average tenure of an NFL coach now--it is win now or out).

Once in the job, then you can make changes after you win the respcect.
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And you proved your own conspiracy theory wrong (or how different this situation is from normal job interviews) with one sentence. Kubiak won't ever win McNair's respect if he can't get Carr going successfully. Being wrong on the most important question at the time of your hiring (and you would have to be wrong because you sure aren't going to say I was fibbing to get the job) ain't a big ole check mark on the job performance chart.

Scooter said:
if you dislike the decision or the player, just say so. calling the team you're supposedly rooting for a bunch of liars just makes you look silly.
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What he said.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Before the $8 million roster payment, they had already paid something $25 million to Carr and they didn't want to bail out on that. That's a big investment to walk away from.

Now, if in the first four years he had only been paid say $10 million with the $8 million dollar roster payment. I think Carr would have been tossed or someone with high ability would be legitimately providing competition to the position.
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if you just lost 25 million, would you trust the same guy with another 24? maybe i'm just tired, but that logic seems terribly flawed. had he been making a lot less money, it'd be easier to bring carr back for the fact that you'd get his talent for cheap. making carr one of the highest payed players in the league when we could've cut bait for free doesnt make much sense, if, according to you, carr isnt good enough for the job.
 
Scooter said:
if you just lost 25 million, would you trust the same guy with another 24? maybe i'm just tired, but that logic seems terribly flawed. had he been making a lot less money, it'd be easier to bring carr back for the fact that you'd get his talent for cheap. making carr one of the highest payed players in the league when we could've cut bait for free doesnt make much sense, if, according to you, carr isnt good enough for the job.
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First, Carr is not one of the higher paid quarterbacks in the league, he is in the middle somewhere.

Second, even though he is overpaid from previous performance, who is going to replace him if you don't go through the draft this year, Kerry Collins, Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brooks, and Joey Harrington? Ouch, regardless of Carr's play and how much we have paid him, I am not sure I want any of those guys running the offense.

It is hard and expensive to find a franchise quarterback and it is even harder and more expensive to replace a failed franchise quarterback. If you don't think so, look at Baltimore. They bailed on the their 2003 first round pick by trading for McNair from Tennessee.

Also, keep in mind if you have a great defense and a strong running game (example, Pittsburgh), you really don't need a stud QB but one that makes decisions to not lose a game (example, Big Ben).

The decision to keep Carr isn't a zero sum game involving just money, it also involves available talent and the the current climate in the league that produces the winners and what it takes.

If Kubiak is as good as I think he is, Carr won't have to make a decision or play to win, he will just need to make sure he doesn't lose the game.
 
Porky said:
Sorry, but that doesn't "prove" anything, except that the HC canditates knew that in order to get the job, Carr was part of the package. Knowing that, how many would say to put the Carr in the garage?
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So what you're saying is that a HC candidate will lie to his potential future employer guaranteeing that he will be stuck with a QB who he believes will not secure his job and may even endanger it.
The first important question/decision of a new HC's job would be based on a lie that he would have to continue to perpetrate publicly week after week after week.
Then if Carr never becomes that player, the new HC would what? Admit he was wrong? That he lied to get the job?

Sorry Porky, I don't buy it. If you are in line for that kind of position, you don't hang a huge albatross around your own neck before you even get the job.

Thanks for playing though... carry on scrutinizing your Warren Report...
 
infantrycak said:
And you proved your own conspiracy theory wrong (or how different this situation is from normal job interviews) with one sentence. Kubiak won't ever win McNair's respect if he can't get Carr going successfully. Being wrong on the most important question at the time of your hiring (and you would have to be wrong because you sure aren't going to say I was fibbing to get the job) ain't a big ole check mark on the job performance chart.



What he said.
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How is this a conspiracy? I think you are characterization is a little over the top.

As for Kubaik not getting Carr going and his success depends on it, does that mean if Carr does the same performance in 2006 as 2005 that Kubiak should be fired?

Kubiak can only tell Carr what to do and coach him, Carr has to perform.

I believe Kubiak is a much better coach than to have his first head coaching job hinge on the play of one player in his first head coaching gig. If Carr is a failure, Kubiak will dump him and move on and I am sure McNair will not think anything less of Kubiak.

This whole Carr discussion is ridiculous.
 
this info came out before we had picked Kubiak.. and all the Carr bashers at that time said "Of course they said Carr was salvagable, McNair is in love with him and you tell your boss what they want to hear".
 
Porky said:
Sorry, but that doesn't "prove" anything, except that the HC canditates knew that in order to get the job, Carr was part of the package. Knowing that, how many would say to put the Carr in the garage?
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While I tend to believe that yes, Carr can take the Texans where they want to go I have to agree with Porky in saying that you can't take those 6 "opinions" and call it a fact. Even if it wasn't necessarily true that making things work with David Carr was part of the package you cannot discount the possibility that one or more of the candidates may have believed it was.

They were being interviewed to replace Dom Capers would could not win with David Carr at QB (but obviously there were several other factors there too) so what do you expect them to say? They're going to say "Yes, I can do what Dom Capers could not do" because that's why the Texans were looking for a new coach, end of story really.
 
hollywood_texan said:
How is this a conspiracy? I think you are characterization is a little over the top.

As for Kubaik not getting Carr going and his success depends on it, does that mean if Carr does the same performance in 2006 as 2005 that Kubiak should be fired?

Kubiak can only tell Carr what to do and coach him, Carr has to perform.

I believe Kubiak is a much better coach than to have his first head coaching job hinge on the play of one player in his first head coaching gig. If Carr is a failure, Kubiak will dump him and move on and I am sure McNair will not think anything less of Kubiak.

This whole Carr discussion is ridiculous.
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Ridiculous, yes.

And yes, Kubiak will happily deal Carr and move on with it if he doesn't perform.

What is ridiculous is that people want to ascribe him being here to a guy like Bob McNair being unwilling to part with "an investment," no matter how many times he and anyone else state otherwise ... but he'll willingly sabotage the profitability of his franchise to the tune of potentially ten times that amount on keeping a broken quarterback and making that a requisite for hiring a new head coach. Okay then ...
 
Well, I guess if Carr fails in 2006, this time next year, not only will we have a new QB, but also new head coach.

That is what you guys are implying.

Certain things are said publicly to give a certain presence, but the pratical application of life and what goes on behind the scenes rarely coincide with that. I am sure the Carr situation discussed publicly by McNair and Kubiak is no different.

They probably both agree it is great risk to hang onto Carr, but even greater risk to bail out at this point, kind of like playing poker.
 
I am not saying one thing or another. I just have seen that Kubiak has done well with a mediocre Jake Plummer. After 6 sub-par years in Arizona, Plummer comes to Denver and has his best seasons in the NFL as a QB. Why is that?

Check out the yearly progression of Plummer

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1003 - Jake Plummer page

And here's Brian Griese

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12409 - Brian Griese page

Neither one of these guys were good enough long term. However, Kub did the best that he could with what he had. I believe that Carr is a much better quarterback then Griese and/or Plummer. We can also assume that Kubiak does as well since he did not take a QB in this years draft nor did he sign another QB to compete with Carr for the starting position.

I am just wondering what all of this adds up to.

~Dominator
 
Porky said:
Sorry, but that doesn't "prove" anything, except that the HC canditates knew that in order to get the job, Carr was part of the package. Knowing that, how many would say to put the Carr in the garage?
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Why would a potential HC want to hamstring himself with a QB he doesn't think is fit for the job? New HC's like to shake up the roster a bit and Carr wouldn't have been the first casualty to be cut. Has happened to quite a few QB's over the years. I also feel that at least a couple of them would have had the cajones to voice an honest opinion. Carr has TONS of improving to do, but he IS a talented and atheletic QB.
 
RT2 said:
I wonder what our new GM thinks of David Carr?
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He will say the same thing that McNair and Kubiak have already said.

Which is the point. The organization has a position on a certain topic but could change in the future and that doesn't mean someone will lose their job as a result.

It's not what is said publicly that is most important but what is said behind closed doors. I think everyone can agree on that. And rarely, the two are the same, much less what people really think is what they say or mean.
 
Do you guys seriously think that someone is going to tell him no when they are interviewing? They wouldnt get the job.

Why would people tell him the truth if he wasnt salvageable? No point. When you are the owner of an NFL team, people tell you what you want to hear.

ie. Do you think any of paris hilton's friends tell her she is a dumb skank?
 
ComstockLode said:
Do you guys seriously think that someone is going to tell him no when they are interviewing? They wouldnt get the job.
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Yes. First, I am not as convinced as some of the folks around here that McNair made keeping Carr a pre-condition of employment. He certainly didn't to Dan Reeves. Not a snowballs chance McNair was 1000% convinced on Carr if Reeves didn't say Carr could get it done. McNair also really liked Capers--if Reeves had said the problem was the personnel starting with Carr--it isn't unlikely Capers would still be here and Casserly and Carr would be looking for new homes. As to the coaching candidates themselves you are all basically calling all of them liars--as if every one of them honestly believed Carr sucks (which is funny since that is the POV of most of the folks this theory comes from) but lied to get a job with an albatross hanging around their necks. Not buying the universal lie--most of these guys have had prior opportunities and will get more opportunities--the incentive to take an albatross laden team isn't as great as made out.
 
infantrycak said:
Yes. First, I am not as convinced as some of the folks around here that McNair made keeping Carr a pre-condition of employment. He certainly didn't to Dan Reeves. Not a snowballs chance McNair was 1000% convinced on Carr if Reeves didn't say Carr could get it done. McNair also really liked Capers--if Reeves had said the problem was the personnel starting with Carr--it isn't unlikely Capers would still be here and Casserly and Carr would be looking for new homes. As to the coaching candidates themselves you are all basically calling all of them liars--as if every one of them honestly believed Carr sucks (which is funny since that is the POV of most of the folks this theory comes from) but lied to get a job with an albatross hanging around their necks. Not buying the universal lie--most of these guys have had prior opportunities and will get more opportunities--the incentive to take an albatross laden team isn't as great as made out.
Click to expand...

Nice reference to the ancient mariner there :)
 
infantrycak said:
Yes. First, I am not as convinced as some of the folks around here that McNair made keeping Carr a pre-condition of employment. He certainly didn't to Dan Reeves. Not a snowballs chance McNair was 1000% convinced on Carr if Reeves didn't say Carr could get it done. McNair also really liked Capers--if Reeves had said the problem was the personnel starting with Carr--it isn't unlikely Capers would still be here and Casserly and Carr would be looking for new homes. As to the coaching candidates themselves you are all basically calling all of them liars--as if every one of them honestly believed Carr sucks (which is funny since that is the POV of most of the folks this theory comes from) but lied to get a job with an albatross hanging around their necks. Not buying the universal lie--most of these guys have had prior opportunities and will get more opportunities--the incentive to take an albatross laden team isn't as great as made out.
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So are you saying that this is or is not an albatross laden team?
 
DominatorDavis said:
So are you saying that this is or is not an albatross laden team?
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In this thread I am not saying either one. IMO McNair, Reeves, Kubiak, Sherman and the other coaching candidates have made their assessment and decided Carr is not an albatross. The folks like Hollywood Texan who have predicted Carr will never amount to anything feel compelled to come up with a spin (in this case all those folks were lying or in McNair's case too worried about money already spent) to argue those folks really don't have favorable opinions of Carr in order to not look like they are disagreeing with a pretty serious list of NFL experience. All that NFL experience may be wrong--but JMO they are not dishonest and self-destructive.
 
Porky said:
Sorry, but that doesn't "prove" anything, except that the HC canditates knew that in order to get the job, Carr was part of the package. Knowing that, how many would say to put the Carr in the garage?
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The only problem is is he has FACTS and written words, from the owner, what do you have?

Your Assuming that thats how they are thinking.............Is it that hard to acctualy think that head coaches think Carr can take this team were it needs to go? I know one, Kubiak.
 
infantrycak said:
In this thread I am not saying either one. IMO McNair, Reeves, Kubiak, Sherman and the other coaching candidates have made their assessment and decided Carr is not an albatross. The folks like Hollywood Texan who have predicted Carr will never amount to anything feel compelled to come up with a spin (in this case all those folks were lying or in McNair's case too worried about money already spent) to argue those folks really don't have favorable opinions of Carr in order to not look like they are disagreeing with a pretty serious list of NFL experience. All that NFL experience may be wrong--but JMO they are not dishonest and self-destructive.
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Where have I predicted Carr will not amount to anything? I don't think I have and will comb through my posts later to see. My points have been looking at past performance, particularly last year. He had an okay year in 2004 but in the fourth quarter on a regular basis the offense had a hard time getting a first down (example is the Green Bay on Sunday night, where they couldn't even get a first down).

The issue of Carr for people that believe he will be successful say his performance, particularly last year, was the result of poor coaching and bad front office moves (or non-moves regarding the offensive line). If the coaching and front office were so bad, how did get it right with Carr?

If you don't think there is a company line with the Texans and that McNair requires people to tow it, I think you are not being honest with yourselves.

You probably also believe Casserly resigned and left of his own accord.

Also, human nature is to say things publicly that you don't mean. The Texans organization is no different.

Besides, if you get rid of Carr who do you get? Kerry Collins? Aaron Brooks? Duante Culpepper? Joey Harrington? I think we were better off if we weren't going to draft a QB.

I don't know if Carr will be a success or not, but his past performance hasn't indicated to me he will be success. Which is my point.

Also, take into consideration that dumping would have certain symbolic failure becuase he was the first draft pick of the Texans and it would be a fact brought up time and time again until success came along.
 
Hulk75 said:
The only problem is is he has FACTS and written words, from the owner, what do you have?

Your Assuming that thats how they are thinking.............Is it that hard to acctualy think that head coaches think Carr can take this team were it needs to go? I know one, Kubiak.
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I think there is the assumption of what human nature is, and therefore you can't believe everything that someone tells you.

For example, your girlfriend breaks up with you, but tells you she still wants to be friends. She probably doesn't mean it.

Same thing could be going on here but from a little different perspective.

McNair is managing risk. He believed keeping Carr and drafting Williams was better than draft Vince Young from a risk perspective. I don't agree with it, but I wouldn't argue with it.

I like the Mario Williams pick even though I wanted Vince Young. He just took a different approach.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Where have I predicted Carr will not amount to anything?
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Well I think you said in this thread that Kubiak would be getting a new QB next year after Carr predictably fails. I apologize if that is misstated--I haven't looked back. Look I have doubts about Carr myself, but JMO things are typically less certain than many people act. Strikes me that you have had several drive by (no real analysis, just a swipe) Carr posts recently and are pretty certain he won't succeed. That's cool. We'll see how it goes.

If you don't think there is a company line with the Texans and that McNair requires people to tow it, I think you are not being honest with yourselves.
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I am being perfectly honest with myself and it strikes me an assumption is being made which I doubt very highly--that McNair was 100% convinced on Carr this off-season and wouldn't listen to Reeves, Capers, anyone to the contrary. JMO, that assumption is more likely wrong than correct. Really, it would be almost mind-boggling to me if as Palmer, Capers, Fangio, Casserly were getting fired/allowed to resign and Reeves was brought in that if any of them honestly felt the way some folks on this MB feel about Carr that they wouldn't have told McNair and that he would have ignored it entirely.

You probably also believe Casserly resigned and left of his own accord.
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Doubt it--but neither you nor I know.

Also, human nature is to say things publicly that you don't mean. The Texans organization is no different.
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Oooh, I would say it is human nature to doubt the motives of others and to over-generalize. The statement above would be an example. You have turned a sometimes happens into a must have happened.
 
It's expensive to get a franchise quarterback, and lot more expensive to get rid of one.

We don't know how Carr will perform, he could be labeled a bust by years end or an All-Pro (or on his way).

Bottom line, keeping Carr is a risk at this point. I believe McNair felt getting rid of Carr had more risk than keeping him and drafting Mario Williams.

Like I said, I don't disagree with the perspective or decision.

Can we agree that handing a grade on Carr and his career right now would be an incomplete?

You probably believe the previous coaching staff and front office did not provide enough for Carr to be successful. I am not as optimistic on that assessment and believe Carr was more of the problem than being held back.

We shall see this year.
 
jerek said:
If we are going to argue on the basis of theory, try this. Bob McNair didn't become filthy rich by holding on to pet friendships or unwillingness to admit "mistakes." He isn't going to risk his multi-multi-multi-million dollar franchise on his golfing buddy. He is a businessman running a very prominent business, and he has gone out of his way to shred his previous management for incompetence,
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Uh. KS Bud Adams Jr is a billionaire.

http://www.forbes.com/2001/04/26/adams.html

He fired Bum Philips to put his golfing buddy Ladd Herzeg in the GM slot. Who in turn brought Ed Biles, Hugh Campbell, and "Ladd's little bobo" Jerry Glanville to Houston. Just saying that's all.
 
Whats interesting is i hadn't read one post on this board, since the draft really, that was bashing or even arguing about whether Carr was the QB for us. And now....we have two pages of it....see what happens when you bring up a non-issue to defend.

But regardless i don't care how many potential head coaches think he would be a fine QB for us. Perfectly fine Qb's are taken anywhere from the 1st to 3rd rounds every year. What we have is David Carr the Number 1 pick QB and we haven't seen that....yet. I have my doubts on whether he will ever justify that pick, but yes, David Carr is a QB fully capable of taking a team to the SB and thats what the head coaches mean by 'can he take us there.'
 
hollywood_texan said:
Can we agree that handing a grade on Carr and his career right now would be an incomplete?
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Absolutely.

You probably believe the previous coaching staff and front office did not provide enough for Carr to be successful. I am not as optimistic on that assessment and believe Carr was more of the problem than being held back.
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I think the offense (not Carr) was not given enough to be successful and I would have liked to see more out of Carr to feel firmly optimistic instead of mildly optimistic. I don't think there was a single player on the O last year who was "more of the problem" than the coaching staff (well maybe Wand for trying to date Pendry's daughter and getting benched)--I'm interested to see what all the players are going to do.
 
I think Kubiak is a smart man. I would hope that most of you agree.

That being said, I don't see him placing his head coaching career on a QB that he doesn't believe in. It simply does not make any sense to see it any other way.

We've had one of the best QB drafts in recent history this year, and I have no doubt that Kubiak would have jettisoned DC and drafted a player if he thought it was right for this team. (And the Mario pick over Bush is a clear example that Coach Kubiak has no problem in making hard decisions that go against the grain of things.)

Either you believe in our coach or you don't. It's black and white. I simply don't see the grand conspiracy at play here.
 
Agreed Double Barrel, but I think Kubiak can give Carr his shot with reservation, can Carr if he needs to, and become a successful coach for the Texans.

That is how confident I am that Kubiak is a good coach, it doesn't matter what Carr does or doesn't do.

No consipiracy, but common ground must be found in a organization and you have to know what battles to pick. McNair is running the ship from the big picture.

Maybe Kubiak is completely sold on Carr, but I think it is possible he is not, which is my hunch.
 
hollywood_texan said:
He will say the same thing that McNair and Kubiak have already said.

Which is the point. The organization has a position on a certain topic but could change in the future and that doesn't mean someone will lose their job as a result.

It's not what is said publicly that is most important but what is said behind closed doors. I think everyone can agree on that. And rarely, the two are the same, much less what people really think is what they say or mean.
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This is the same as arguing that the Texans were committed to Reggie Bush in the draft. Everyone believes that to some degree, and some would even go as far as to say that the organization was committed and changed their minds. The truth is there is NO proof of that at all. The organization never said (officially) that they were definitely going to draft Bush....it was all media and public supposition.....same here. The organization has said Carr can do the job. All coaches of the team and all potential coaches have said the same thing. There is NO INFORMATION TO INDICATE THAT THERE IS ANY REASON NOT TO BELIEVE CARR IS THE GUY BECAUSE OF ABILITY. As long as this team doesn't put a talented group of players around him there will never BE any such proof or even any reasonable opinion of such failure. If anything, this organization tends to be more honest than people give it credit for, it's the pundits who typically turn out to be blowing up a head of smoke.

What it does appear we will have, is a good idea at the end of the season, because this offseason is kicking.....
 
ComstockLode said:
Do you guys seriously think that someone is going to tell him no when they are interviewing? They wouldnt get the job.

Why would people tell him the truth if he wasnt salvageable? No point. When you are the owner of an NFL team, people tell you what you want to hear.

ie. Do you think any of paris hilton's friends tell her she is a dumb skank?
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What a smart interviewee does when asked a question where he feels like he has to take the company line is to say something vague that could be taken either way. To make a commitment to something you don't believe in is suicide.
 
Hervoyel said:
While I tend to believe that yes, Carr can take the Texans where they want to go I have to agree with Porky in saying that you can't take those 6 "opinions" and call it a fact. Even if it wasn't necessarily true that making things work with David Carr was part of the package you cannot discount the possibility that one or more of the candidates may have believed it was.

They were being interviewed to replace Dom Capers would could not win with David Carr at QB (but obviously there were several other factors there too) so what do you expect them to say? They're going to say "Yes, I can do what Dom Capers could not do" because that's why the Texans were looking for a new coach, end of story really.
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I couldn't have said it better Herv.
 
Just because they kept Carr doesn't mean they are sold 100%. They could believe it's more of a risk to get rid of Carr and replace him than just keep him and pick Mario Williams (I say Mario because they had a good opportunity to pick a franchise QB #1).

It's my hunch they are not 100% sold he can get the job done but can still be successful, think of Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.

You guys may be right, they could be 100% sold Carr will be a Hall of Fame caliber type quarterback.

But it today's NFL, that isn't required to win a Super Bowl.
 
How did I find myself in a Carr thread. ;)

The dude is our QB and technically was our biggest acquisition this off season. There a lot of if ands and buts that we all could argue in this hyperbolic virtual chamber that we call the Message Board, but I seriously do not care any longer about Carr. I just care about this team playing competitvely in every game, showing marked improvement and getting me out of my seat other than to get a beer.

Carr is an important part for where we want to go, we know what he did before, we know how much he costs but as much as I close my eyes and think of ways to orchestrate his departure it ain't going to happen. Heck I even tried to squish his head a couple of times at the game, but the dude is a warrior (only this last statement was a dig).
 
hollywood_texan said:
Just because they kept Carr doesn't mean they are sold 100%. They could believe it's more of a risk to get rid of Carr and replace him than just keep him and pick Mario Williams (I say Mario because they had a good opportunity to pick a franchise QB #1).
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The one last thing I will point out, is IMO their conviction had to be pretty strong. There has rarely ever been a #1 pick team, with a #1 pick candidate at a #1 type pick position who is a local and state hero coming off a tremendous national championship win. Dumping the hippie boy from CA in that context wouldn't have even been perceived as a tar stripe on the Vince Young love highway.
 
bayoudreamn said:
The only comparison I can imagine between Bud and Bob is the letter B
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well I suppose the line of logic goes like this:

If a many multi-millionare is the mark of good judgement, then a billionaire on the Forbes list right under Buffet should be at least one dollar or one cent better.
or
the business skills don't translate to football skills
or
Bud is one lucky sperm ( as I was once told )

I didn't have anything super productive to add after Hervoyel. But I didn't want to be left out of a Carr thread either... makes me feel lonely, isolated, sad, or just plain old bored.
 
hollywood_texan said:
I think there is the assumption of what human nature is, and therefore you can't believe everything that someone tells you.
For example, your girlfriend breaks up with you, but tells you she still wants to be friends. She probably doesn't mean it.

Same thing could be going on here but from a little different perspective.

McNair is managing risk. He believed keeping Carr and drafting Williams was better than draft Vince Young from a risk perspective. I don't agree with it, but I wouldn't argue with it.

I like the Mario Williams pick even though I wanted Vince Young. He just took a different approach.
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So Bob McNair was assuming these guys were telling him the truth, so there for those coaches were liars and were just trying to get a job? :confused:
I believe that Bob McNair is what he is and that is a straight forward owner and a trust worthy guy, so I have NO doubt that he would be looking for COACHES that act and have the same attributes.
I doubt they LIED to Bob McNair about the most important part of an organization.
 
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