Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Capers Chagrined

bckey

All Pro
Looked through the threads here and didn't see this posted yet. Capers is doing a little whining. In the end though he just didn't produce a winning product.


CAPERS CHAGRINED BY KUBIAK'S SITUATION

In response to the news that Rick Smith will become the new G.M. of the Houston Texans, we're hearing that former Texans coach Dom Capers is lamenting the fact that his successor, Gary Kubiak, got to pick his own personnel guy.

Capers was hired after the team had put in place G.M. Charley Casserly, and Capers (rumor has it) wasn't always thrilled (to say the least) with the guys that Casserly added to the roster.

In our view, it's hard to feel bad for a guy who finished up his fourth season on the job by winning only two games, regardless of whether the G.M. was Casserly or Ron Wolf or Fran Foley. Capers had four full years to prove his worth, and in the end his performance helped to seal his fate.

Moreover, if Capers didn't like the direction of the personnel department, he should have forced the issue with owner Bob McNair, as more and more coaches have done over the past decade.

With that said, we can understand why Capers is feeling a little frustrated. Kubiak is getting far more juice as an unproven commodity than Capers received when he arrived four years ago with a solid and diverse resume. Capers took the expansion Panthers to the NFC title game in only their second season, and he enjoyed plenty of success as a defensive coordinator before and after his stint in Carolina. Kubiak has merely been the consistent lieutenant to a control freak in Denver.

Moreover, the appearance that McNair ultimately created in Houston was that Capers alone took the fall for the team's poor performance in its first four years of existence. Apparently concerned with the possibility that he'd be labeled a buffoon for hiring both Capers and Casserly if he fired both of them at or about the same time, McNair dumped Capers and then carried Casserly through the draft, allowing him to "resign" in a manner that, on the surface, saved face both for the organization and for Casserly.

As far as we can tell, the ruse worked. Most of the references we now see to Casserly include a statement that he resigned the position of G.M. in order to pursue a job in the league office, which strongly implies that he'd still be the G.M. of the Texans if he really wanted to be.

Folks who follow the league closely know otherwise. Casserly was definitely out after the draft. The only remaining question was whether he'd walk before getting run.

So we can understand Capers' situation. A little bit. In the end, though, it's hard to feel sorry for a guy who was in a position to improve his situation by better navigating the front-office politics in order to get the players he needed.

Or by winning more games with the ones that he had.


Comments?

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Capers has only one winning season in eight years as an NFL head coach. That record speaks for itself, IMO. Simply put, Capers is probably a good defensive coordinator, but he's a lousy heach coach.

When a 7-9 team flops to 2-14, I can't blame the GM. The 2005 Texans came out flat and uninspired, not ready to play professional football. It's not the GM in the lockeroom motivating players and working out schemes, it's the friggin' head coach.

In addition, the HC decided to keep an offensive coordinator that was obviously a wrong fit for the team (hence firing said coordinator just two games into a new season). I blame the head coach for that debacle, not the GM.

And it is a widely held belief that Casserly only obtained the players that the coaches wanted, so the 2-14 team was a direct reflection of Capers' choices.

I don't have any animosity towards the old coach, but the last thing I want to hear is any whining or complaints from him. Move on, Capers, and keep doing what you're doing...as long as it's not on my team!
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
To begin with I don't think I've seen anyone who's opinion I consider worth anything speak badly of Capers since he was fired. There are always going to be those fans who are ready to lynch the coach or any assistant, player, or front office person they perceive to be "the problem" but those people don't know squat.

The opinions I'm seeing that matter (to me at least) are all fairly consistent in hanging the blame on Capers for not doing something about the coaches under him. He was in a bad marriage to Chris Palmer from the start and never held Vic Fangio accountable for putting the kind of defense that Capers was known for on the field. Then he brought in the clearly incompetent Joe Pendry to take "Palmer type" offensive picks and run a "Capers type" offense. Dom did not manage the people who worked for him and so he lost his job. End of story IMO.

If Kubiak does something with many of these same players then in my mind the case will be closed. Dom Capers is a fine man and a great defensive coordinator but he is not winning head coach material.
 

bckey

All Pro
Hervoyel said:
Dom Capers is a fine man and a great defensive coordinator but he is not winning head coach material.

I think this statement sums up what the majority of the Texans fans think about Capers.
 

TwinSisters

Veteran
bckey said:
Kubiak has merely been the consistent lieutenant to a control freak in Denver.
Those dudes at Profootballtalk... those dudes... I got an ear full of that at my cooler too. We'll see.

It's gonna be a long summer
---
Capers had injuries to deal with on the 2-14 season. Other wise he might have finished 8-8 or better. It's not like the Texans were getting blown out every single game.
 

Tulip

Veteran
TwinSisters said:
Capers had injuries to deal with on the 2-14 season. Other wise he might have finished 8-8 or better. It's not like the Texans were getting blow out every single game.
IMO, the injury situation was much worse in the 2003 (5-11) season.
 

TEXANRED

Texan-American
Capers may still have a job if he had the juice to be able to fire his friends. Pendry and Fangio single handedly cost him his job. (This being the second time Pendry has cost Capers his job, first being Carolina.)

Capers' stuborness to continue playing a 34 D with personel that never fit. Never being able to develop the players he had. Carr, Babin, TJ, Wand all whos careers are in damage control. Gaffney never developed and was let find work else were, and Wells can't find a job.

It was Capers who said we had to have Greenwood, Walker, Babin, Pbuc, Wade. That is alot of money between those five that are no better than second stringers on any decent team.

He started Corey Bradford :hunter:

He started Victor Riley over Wand and Pitts :hunter:

He continued to let McKinney play center when clearly he is a guard :hunter:
He lost the respect of his team in the very begining of last season. You could just tell. The very first play of the regular season Carr fumbles the football away to the Bills. The team quit on him b/c they knew Capers was unfitt to lead this team. Chris Brown shanks, and I am going to quote Shannon Sharp, "A 30 yard field goal 40 yards to the left." That is not like Chris Brown.

I will restate it, Capers didn't have the juice to fire his friends, make the tough decisions, and he started Victor Riley :hunter:
 
The thing that bugged me the most about the Capers era was that we "NEVER" had a pass rush and that was his specialty. If he could not succeed at what he was best at how was he ever going to succeed at the areas where he was weakest....
 

ATX_Texan

Waterboy
Capers was hired after the team had put in place G.M. Charley Casserly, and Capers (rumor has it) wasn't always thrilled (to say the least) with the guys that Casserly added to the roster.
Wow, this is an interesting quote. First, we have Casserly and his defenders that continue to spew about how Capers was the one messing everything up by forcing him to make horrible trades, waste draft picks, and over pay for average talent.

Now, we also have word from Capers and his folks that he was just working with the players that Casserly provided.

You cannot have it both ways. The fundamental flaw is that Casserly should have had the final say on all personal decisions regarding this team. The fact that the team has changed out more than half of the roster from last year tells everyone just how miserably Casserly failed.
 

TwinSisters

Veteran
Tulip said:
IMO, the injury situation was much worse in the 2003 (5-11) season.
I know! I used to think there was something wrong in the trainers' department or scouting department.

Although I would have to go back and compare the two to see what really was the worse... but I don't feel like it. I don't wanna. :D

The offensive line was shredded by week two ( I think ) last year, that was enough to scrape the bowline. Not that Capers didn't make mistakes, it's just that it is overblown to toss it all on him ( or his assistants,etc. ). If his team was perfectly healthy and he still finished with a 2-14 record, that's a little different. But I don't want to give the impression that I think Capers is an elite coach either, I could really care less if he was doing alright or bombing it. That office needed to change either way.

PS If I remember correctly the 2003 season had a lot secondary injuries.
 

TexanFan881

All Pro
Injuries are never an excuse for a bad season. That's why you have back-ups, that's why you have each team wants depth. The teams that make the playoffs and don't finish 2-14 are the teams that are prepared for injuries.
 

TwinSisters

Veteran
TexanFan881 said:
Injuries are never an excuse for a bad season. That's why you have back-ups, that's why you have each team wants depth. The teams that make the playoffs and don't finish 2-14 are the teams that are prepared for injuries.
Which begs the question... who builds depth?

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/9033967

I think you under estimate the effect of injuries on a football club. There are things like turf toe, the occasional out for three weeks, and then there are things like having to start three different centers in one game.
 

Meloy

Veteran
ATX_Texan said:
Wow, this is an interesting quote. First, we have Casserly and his defenders that continue to spew about how Capers was the one messing everything up by forcing him to make horrible trades, waste draft picks, and over pay for average talent.

Now, we also have word from Capers and his folks that he was just working with the players that Casserly provided.

You cannot have it both ways. The fundamental flaw is that Casserly should have had the final say on all personal decisions regarding this team. The fact that the team has changed out more than half of the roster from last year tells everyone just how miserably Casserly failed.
"Ain't my fault. I didn't do it. Must have been that guy over there. No? Well ,what about that guy or maybe it was your fault. Mom, mom? Are you going to let that guy talk about me that way? It must be them 'cause it sure ain't my fault." Sheesh!
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
TwinSisters said:
Capers had injuries to deal with on the 2-14 season. Other wise he might have finished 8-8 or better. It's not like the Texans were getting blow out every single game.
You're kiddin' me, right? :um:

The Texans never had a single lead in the first six games of the 2005 season. A record, I might add, that hasn't been touched since the NFL of the 1930's!!

No, we didn't get blown out every single game...hey, we won two! :ok:
 
S

SESupergenius

Guest
Capers without a doubt deserves a lot of the blame for losing the team, but Casserly needs an equal share in that. If you couldn't see our team being worse than 7-9 after losing Glenn, Sharper and getting Greenwood and P-Buc then you wouldn't get the fact that Casserly had a LOT to do with us going to 2-14. Before entering the 2005 season the writing was on the wall as to how our season was going to go considering the monumentally disasterous off-season in both free agency and the draft. The off-season transactions is where Casserly has the most influence and it was an utter fiasco going into the 2005 regular schedule. I can not fault Capers for the personnel given him cosidering Kubiak and his staff have pretty much gutted the team of bad players with more to come in the coming weeks. It's no coincidence that our off-season this year is pretty solid and Casserly hands have essentially been tied behind his back. It's no wonder he is not on the team anymore, no matter how sugar coated the offical party line is.
 

tsip

Veteran
TwinSisters said:
I know! I used to think there was something wrong in the trainers' department or scouting department.

Although I would have to go back and compare the two to see what really was the worse... but I don't feel like it. I don't wanna. :D

The offensive line was shredded by week two ( I think ) last year, that was enough to scrape the bowline. Not that Capers didn't make mistakes, it's just that it is overblown to toss it all on him ( or his assistants,etc. ). If his team was perfectly healthy and he still finished with a 2-14 record, that's a little different. But I don't want to give the impression that I think Capers is an elite coach either, I could really care less if he was doing alright or bombing it. That office needed to change either way.

PS If I remember correctly the 2003 season had a lot secondary injuries.
Every team in the NFL has to deal with injuries and player turnover and that is a constant every year. The Pats won a SB with over 40 different player combinations during the year, including a secondary so depleated that a WR was playing as a DB. As Belicek said once when asked about injuries, they are a 'given, difference is how you deal with them. We expect to win, We won't accept excuses.' Under Capers, there was no such philosophy and some fans still make excuses for the Texans under Capers.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
In my opinion , Capers had lost this team a year before the collapse we witnessed last season . Anyone remember the remarks that got Jamie Sharper run out of town ? (not that it didnt turn out to be the right move to release him) .... "We need a leader" ..... But the team as a whole didnt believe in Capers brand of football . Capers didnt play to win games , he played not to lose them . That more than anything else led to the 2-14 mark they put up last season . :stirpot:
 

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
Jason Babin and Phillip Buchanon. Those two players.

I really wish I knew the real story, or who it was that really wanted these two players, and the thinking that went into it. But until I do, I really don't know who should be "blamed" for the past.

I bet if you took a poll as to who you blame more . . . Capers or Casserly, I'm willing to bet it would fall somewhere around 50/50 . . .

"Bottom line . . it was a 2-14 season."

Well, that's informative.:rolleyes: But it doesn't tell me squat. How bout giving me some more information, rather than 'rumors', so I can tell who is really to blame, and who is the scapegoat.

There is one very big untold story about this team. Maybe one of these days, I'll find out what it is.
 

Bobo

Veteran
corrosion said:
In my opinion , Capers had lost this team a year before the collapse we witnessed last season . Anyone remember the remarks that got Jamie Sharper run out of town ? (not that it didnt turn out to be the right move to release him) .... "We need a leader" ..... But the team as a whole didnt believe in Capers brand of football . Capers didnt play to win games , he played not to lose them . That more than anything else led to the 2-14 mark they put up last season . :stirpot:
You're opinion is wrong. You obviously didn't see how that team came out after halftime of the KC game last year.
 

Bobo

Veteran
SESupergenius said:
Capers without a doubt deserves a lot of the blame for losing the team, but Casserly needs an equal share in that. If you couldn't see our team being worse than 7-9 after losing Glenn, Sharper and getting Greenwood and P-Buc then you wouldn't get the fact that Casserly had a LOT to do with us going to 2-14. Before entering the 2005 season the writing was on the wall as to how our season was going to go considering the monumentally disasterous off-season in both free agency and the draft. The off-season transactions is where Casserly has the most influence and it was an utter fiasco going into the 2005 regular schedule. I can not fault Capers for the personnel given him cosidering Kubiak and his staff have pretty much gutted the team of bad players with more to come in the coming weeks. It's no coincidence that our off-season this year is pretty solid and Casserly hands have essentially been tied behind his back. It's no wonder he is not on the team anymore, no matter how sugar coated the offical party line is.
Ragone, a "bad" player? Gaffney a "bad" player? Bradford, a "bad" player? Wells, a "bad" player? Might wanna try to tell that to Cincy, Philly and Detroit! But then, of course, Sage Rosenfels isn't a "bad" player, is he? After all, a career completion pct. of less than 50% and throwing just as many INTs (6) as TDs -- well, that's pretty good, isn't it?
 

U4ikrob

Guitar Junky
SESupergenius said:
Capers without a doubt deserves a lot of the blame for losing the team, but Casserly needs an equal share in that. If you couldn't see our team being worse than 7-9 after losing Glenn, Sharper and getting Greenwood and P-Buc then you wouldn't get the fact that Casserly had a LOT to do with us going to 2-14. Before entering the 2005 season the writing was on the wall as to how our season was going to go considering the monumentally disasterous off-season in both free agency and the draft. The off-season transactions is where Casserly has the most influence and it was an utter fiasco going into the 2005 regular schedule. I can not fault Capers for the personnel given him cosidering Kubiak and his staff have pretty much gutted the team of bad players with more to come in the coming weeks. It's no coincidence that our off-season this year is pretty solid and Casserly hands have essentially been tied behind his back. It's no wonder he is not on the team anymore, no matter how sugar coated the offical party line is.

What he said.....

Bottom line philosophy of coaching wise Caper's allways preached to his players play not too loose. That it was "Lack of Execution" on the players parts as to why we lost. Unfortunately thats a horribly bad philosophy to have for a head coach. It might work ok as a D-coordinator, but Capers didnt even manage to do that right on this team in his 4 seasons as HC. In fact they had only 1 season in 4 we had a defense ranked above 20 in the league. IMO for a Head coach whos specialty is Defense thats completely UN-Acceptable. 4 years gratis of picking your players putting in your scheme and teaching and still have no results is just deplorable and speaks volumes about your abilities as a coach and is why Capers was fired.

Bottom line Capers style of coaching was not a good fit for this team.
Players in this league need to play to win - not to loose and that was an idea Capers never seems to get as a coach even now.

Essentially Capers and Casserley were given almost complete autonomous control of this franchise from the very start and we all know the results of those choices.

Casserly is a slick fish who can try to blame it all on Capers that he wants, but in the end Cass - He was the coach YOU picked to coach the team, that YOU picked to work with and build this franchise with and thus YOU are bottom line responsible for the choice you made to hire him and work with him.

IMO Mr. McNair played the classy card and tried to save some face by giving you a chance to help with the rebuilding, but make no mistake - There was not a chance in hell Charlie would not have been let go after the draft as it was obvious to almost everyone in the league including me, the blame lay squarely on the staff more than the players.
 

Bobo

Veteran
U4ikrob said:
What he said.....

Bottom line philosophy of coaching wise Caper's allways preached to his players play not too loose. That it was "Lack of Execution" on the players parts as to why we lost. Unfortunately thats a horribly bad philosophy to have for a head coach. It might work ok as a D-coordinator, but Capers didnt even manage to do that right on this team in his 4 seasons as HC. In fact they had only 1 season in 4 we had a defense ranked above 20 in the league. IMO for a Head coach whos specialty is Defense thats completely UN-Acceptable. 4 years gratis of picking your players putting in your scheme and teaching and still have no results is just deplorable and speaks volumes about your abilities as a coach and is why Capers was fired.

Bottom line Capers style of coaching was not a good fit for this team.
Players in this league need to play to win - not to loose and that was an idea Capers never seems to get as a coach even now.

Essentially Capers and Casserley were given almost complete autonomous control of this franchise from the very start and we all know the results of those choices.

Casserly is a slick fish who can try to blame it all on Capers that he wants, but in the end Cass - He was the coach YOU picked to coach the team, that YOU picked to work with and build this franchise with and thus YOU are bottom line responsible for the choice you made to hire him and work with him.

IMO Mr. McNair played the classy card and tried to save some face by giving you a chance to help with the rebuilding, but make no mistake - There was not a chance in hell Charlie would not have been let go after the draft as it was obvious to almost everyone in the league including me, the blame lay squarely on the staff more than the players.
Did Capers say this or are you putting words into his mouth? I would guess it would be the latter. And your "bottom line" assessment was way out to lunch. You seem to make assertions without any facts to back you up. Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years, including two road games vs. Jax and the Bears where that defense you criticize so much allowed just five points total in those two games. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.
 

Texans_Chick

Utopian Dreamer
Bobo said:
You're opinion is wrong. You obviously didn't see how that team came out after halftime of the KC game last year.
Please.

Do not mention that game ever again.

I know that is one of your Exhibit A's for how inspirational Capers was to his team. I have no idea why you think that way--because they were yelling and stuff coming out of the tunnel or something?? I can't fathom.

The second half of that game was non-remarkable.

It was dreadful.

I guess the best thing you could say about the first half to the second half of that game is that instead of the Texans getting their rearends handed to them, they merely got stomped into a mudhole.

Larry Johnson got some sort of record for rushing yards that game, IIRC.

I stayed until the very end. I could hear individual fans in the Bullpen from 50yards away.

Please. 2005 is toast. Turn the page. Stick a fork in it.

Or maybe turn the page, then stick the fork in it and the toast.
 

Ibar_Harry

All Pro
Texans_Chick said:
Please.

Do not mention that game ever again.

I know that is one of your Exhibit A's for how inspirational Capers was to his team. I have no idea why you think that way--because they were yelling and stuff coming out of the tunnel or something?? I can't fathom.

The second half of that game was non-remarkable.

It was dreadful.

I guess the best thing you could say about the first half to the second half of that game is that instead of the Texans getting their rearends handed to them, they merely got stomped into a mudhole.

Larry Johnson got some sort of record for rushing yards that game, IIRC.

I stayed until the very end. I could hear individual fans in the Bullpen from 50yards away.

Please. 2006 is toast. Turn the page. Stick a fork in it.

Or maybe turn the page, then stick the fork in it and the toast.
I think you mean 2005 was toast. I certainly hope 2006 isn't toast....
 
S

SESupergenius

Guest
Bobo said:
Ragone, a "bad" player? Gaffney a "bad" player? Bradford, a "bad" player? Wells, a "bad" player? Might wanna try to tell that to Cincy, Philly and Detroit! But then, of course, Sage Rosenfels isn't a "bad" player, is he? After all, a career completion pct. of less than 50% and throwing just as many INTs (6) as TDs -- well, that's pretty good, isn't it?
Lets see,
Bradford & Gaffney or Moulds & Walters? I'll take Kubiak picks.
Wells & Norris or Cook & A. Smith? Again, Kubiaks
Ragone & Banks or Rosenfels & Porter? tossup, because we know how awful Banks and Rosefels were. Ragone was let go for a reason.

Just because they were picked up by other teams doesn't equate to them being quality. I've only seen a couple of guys off the Texans that were quality throughout the years and most were pretty bad.
 

Bobo

Veteran
Texans_Chick said:
Please.

Do not mention that game ever again.

I know that is one of your Exhibit A's for how inspirational Capers was to his team. I have no idea why you think that way--because they were yelling and stuff coming out of the tunnel or something?? I can't fathom.

The second half of that game was non-remarkable.

It was dreadful.

I guess the best thing you could say about the first half to the second half of that game is that instead of the Texans getting their rearends handed to them, they merely got stomped into a mudhole.

Larry Johnson got some sort of record for rushing yards that game, IIRC.

I stayed until the very end. I could hear individual fans in the Bullpen from 50yards away.

Please. 2006 is toast. Turn the page. Stick a fork in it.

Or maybe turn the page, then stick the fork in it and the toast.
Why not mention it? Because it shoots to heck the assertion that Capers "lost the team?" The fact is, I was there for that game and you could tell -- if you were there, that is -- that this team DEFINITELY had NOT given up, nor had they given up on Capers. So what if the Texans didn't win the game? The point is that the team did NOT give up on Capers during that game or any other game. The phrase "gave up on the coach" is just a little expression everybody just loves to attach to someone who is having a rough year or got dismissed -- even if it doesn't fit. "The team gave up on him." Says who? Someone who gave up? I agree with you, though. With Kubiak at the helm. 2006 is toast. Stick a fork in it and turn the page. Maybe 2007 will be better. But I doubt it.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Bobo said:
You're opinion is wrong. You obviously didn't see how that team came out after halftime of the KC game last year.
Do you mean the game we lost 45-17? :um: Am I missing something?
 

Bobo

Veteran
SESupergenius said:
Lets see,
Bradford & Gaffney or Moulds & Walters? I'll take Kubiak picks.
Wells & Norris or Cook & A. Smith? Again, Kubiaks
Ragone & Banks or Rosenfels & Porter? tossup, because we know how awful Banks and Rosefels were. Ragone was let go for a reason.

Just because they were picked up by other teams doesn't equate to them being quality. I've only seen a couple of guys off the Texans that were quality throughout the years and most were pretty bad.
Well, as I said, Martz would differ with you over Bradford. And I personally wouldn't like overpaid, old quitters on my team whose numbers in yards per pass are declining and has only caught 10 TDs in three games -- not to mention his "conduct detrimental to the team" suspension. And I do believe that Walters has, what is it -- 30 catches in 3 years with one TD? I do believe Gaffney and Bradford for that matter are much, much better than that. And you say you'd choose Kubiak's picks? Hmm!! And let's see -- you'd rather have Smith and Cook over Norris and Wells? I don't think too many people believe Cook is all that much of an improvement over Norris, if any. And if I were you, I'd look twice at the stats regarding Smith. He had just as many poor games as good ones with the Saints last year as a starter. And how many teams has he been with since he was drafted in the first round? Washed out with the Bills, washed out with the Pats, washed out with the Titans, washed out with the Saints. Doncha just love how Kubiak brings all these young, promising guys into Houston and suits them up? You might also want to look at what Wells did when he was called upon to start in place of Davis. He ran for 88 yards, caught 33 in receptions and scored two TDs, leading the team to one of its two wins last year. Now, you would take Kubiak's picks? As for the QBs, at least you admit that Rosenfels was awful. Seeing that the flip was really Rosenfels for Ragone, then maybe you could somehow admit that Kubiak's picks there weren't a very good idea. You say that Ragone was let go for a reason. Well, the only reason I have heard is that catch-all lame excuse of "he doesn't fit with his system," an excuse a coach can use to make any and every personnel move that was obviously bad. In fact, if you take everything into consideration and were honest rather than just trying to put the best light on a bad situation and rubber stamp all of Kubiak's deals, you might admit that Kubiak may be making this team worse rather than better. You know, you really don't have to be Kubiak's rubber stamp anymore. After all, he just hired one to be his GM. No need for duplication of efforts, you know.
 

Buffi2

Veteran
Ye Gads, Bobo - is there no end to your dismal outlook?

As far as Capers is concerned - I think one name answers the question as to who was mainly responsible between Capers and Casserly.....Victor Riley...I still get hives when I hear his name. Say what you will about all of the other bad moves - but this was the worst ever - compounded by the fact that this guy continued to start even when the most lame among us could see he was in the wrong profession.

Texan Chick is correct - enuf of 2005 already or we may all end up sounding like poor Bobo. 2006 is here, season tickets will be mailed the middle of July and pre-season can't be far behind.:fans:
 

tsip

Veteran
Bobo said:
Did Capers say this or are you putting words into his mouth? I would guess it would be the latter. And your "bottom line" assessment was way out to lunch. You seem to make assertions without any facts to back you up. Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years, including two road games vs. Jax and the Bears where that defense you criticize so much allowed just five points total in those two games. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.
Fact--18/46 record in 4 yrs. Fact-after 4 full yrs of Capers- 2/14 record with offense/defense ranked near bottom. Fact, a better 1st year record with better offensive and defensive rankings. Fact, we were 7/9 in our 3rd yr, with 4 wins against the Jags/Titans, other 3 victories were against losing teams, only team with a winning record we beat the entire year were the Jags.Fact-in just one year-we went from a so/so team to the worse team in the NFL. Fact, Caper's last year/8th year was his worse in his career. After 8 yrs as a HC and 2-14 is the best Caper's can do?...and that's a fact, Jack (aka Bobo)....
 

Bobo

Veteran
tsip said:
Fact--18/46 record in 4 yrs. Fact-after 4 full yrs of Capers- 2/14 record with offense/defense ranked near bottom. Fact, a better 1st year record with better offensive and defensive rankings. Fact, we were 7/9 in our 3rd yr, with 4 wins against the Jags/Titans, other 3 victories were against losing teams, only team with a winning record we beat the entire year were the Jags.Fact-in just one year-we went from a so/so team to the worse team in the NFL. Fact, Caper's last year/8th year was his worse in his career. After 8 yrs as a HC and 2-14 is the best Caper's can do?...and that's a fact, Jack (aka Bobo)....
Fact: That record occurred during the Texans' first four years of existence. Fact: Capers took a team from scratch, with no infrastructure whatsoever, and brought them to within one game of .500 in just three years. And it doesn't matter who you beat. ALL those teams had been around a lot, lot longer than the Texans were. Jax went to the AFC championship game a couple times and the Titans got within a yard of winning the SB. Fact: Cowher took his team from a 13-3 record in 2001 to 6-10 in 2003 -- a regression of seven games. In two years, his team went from championship caliber to awful Yet. he was allowed to right the ship and got a SB. Also see Paul Brown and Mike Holmgren. And those are ALL facts, sipper!
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Bobo said:
The point is that the team did NOT give up on Capers during that game or any other game.
You did see the post earlier about NEVER having a single lead in the first six games of 2005, right?

They played flat and like they'd never been on the field together. These are signs of coaching failure, plain and simple. And obviously, the Texans FO feels the same way.
 

Bobo

Veteran
Buffi2 said:
Texan Chick is correct - enuf of 2005 already or we may all end up sounding like poor Bobo. 2006 is here, season tickets will be mailed the middle of July and pre-season can't be far behind.:fans:
Yep, 2006 is here -- and if you would look at the post, I agreed with that post which admitted that 2006 is over, stick a fork in it. You might try to read things a bit more carefully if you are going to bring them up again.
 

Bobo

Veteran
Double Barrel said:
You did see the post earlier about NEVER having a single lead in the first six games of 2005, right?
Hah! You do realize that your above post is a prediction, don't you? Either that or you, too, don't even realize what year it is! Which is it??
 

Ibar_Harry

All Pro
Bobo said:
Yep, 2006 is here -- and if you would look at the post, I agreed with that post which admitted that 2006 is over, stick a fork in it. You might try to read things a bit more carefully if you are going to bring them up again.
Chick go back and edit your post so BOBO can't keep quoting it. Then we can accuse him of misquoting you.
 

Bobo

Veteran
Ibar_Harry said:
Chick go back and edit your post so BOBO can't keep quoting it. Then we can accuse him of misquoting you.
Hah! So it's gotten to this! Tsk, tsk. Oh, you might want to inform Double Barrell of what year it is as well! And Buffi, too ... wait, do I see a pattern forming here?
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Bobo said:
Hah! You do realize that your above post is a prediction, don't you? Either that or you, too, don't even realize what year it is! Which is it??
Fixed. :ok:

But it still doesn't change the fact that the 2005 Texans came out of the gate limping and gimped themselves through an entire season. This was a coaching problem, plain and simple.
 

Bobo

Veteran
Double Barrel said:
Fixed. :ok:

But it still doesn't change the fact that the 2005 Texans came out of the gate limping and gimped themselves through an entire season. This was a coaching problem, plain and simple.
They came out of the gate and lost two games -- one on the road against Buffalo that nobody expected them to win in the first place and then one against Pittsburgh -- a team that I believe won the SB, as I recall. Immediately, everybody called for people's heads. Talk about panicking! :francis: Nobody is saying last year was a good one by any stretch of the imagination, but I am saying that folks panicked way, way too early in the game. Plus, like I said many times before, there are plenty of coaches that had bad years but were given the chance to right themselves and went on to championships, if not outright SB victories. After Capers took a team from scratch and accomplished what he did in 2004, he should have been given a chance to right the ship in 2005, just like Holmgren, Cowher, and Paul Brown. Now, instead, we have a guy who has basically changed the Texans into Broncos Lite. Seems to me that if you folks wanted the Broncos then you'd be buying Broncos jerseys! I remember when the Browns went the same route and tried to become 49ers Lite. It was a disaster. When a team tries to steal another's identity, it usually doesn't work because teams are different. And folks around here criticize CAPERS for fitting square pegs into round holes?
 

tsip

Veteran
Bobo said:
Fact: That record occurred during the Texans' first four years of existence. Fact: Capers took a team from scratch, with no infrastructure whatsoever, and brought them to within one game of .500 in just three years. And it doesn't matter who you beat. ALL those teams had been around a lot, lot longer than the Texans were. Jax went to the AFC championship game a couple times and the Titans got within a yard of winning the SB. Fact: Cowher took his team from a 13-3 record in 2001 to 6-10 in 2003 -- a regression of seven games. In two years, his team went from championship caliber to awful Yet. he was allowed to right the ship and got a SB. Also see Paul Brown and Mike Holmgren. And those are ALL facts, sipper!

...and 1n 2004 Cohwer's record was 15-1 and- as you know- his team won the SB the next year...bottom line, Capers took us from 4-12 to 2-14 in just 4 yrs and the Texans are the only recent expansion team to not make the playoffs by their 4th year---yeah, heck of a job by, Dom, so noted by 'all' of the teams lining up to hire him...notttttttttttt Oh, yeah, Bobo--how do you compare Kubiak's results to anyones when (I think) the Texans have not even played a game yet under him?
 

U4ikrob

Guitar Junky
Well Thanks for your 2 cents Bobo.

?Putting words in his mouth - Whoa there man - :challenge You dont even know me so back that truck up. Yea ive actually talked to Coach Capers more than once over the last 4 years. During camp, at public outings etc...

As I said it above IMO - Its My opinion - :stirpot: Capers is a nice man, but not the greatest coach nor did his philosophy on football and the team workout. The results are in - the milk is allready spilled. His statements about the team are very well known, along with his philosphy of coaching. Need I quote the Texans website to you from the last 4 years of articles? Surely you can look up the archives.

So what exactly did you think about the article above Bobo? BTW - Did you read the article above??

Bottom line and way out to lunch? - Most of my facts came from my attending the teams training camp for 4 years, having played football myself for a few years, attending some Texans games, watching the remainder on TV, listening to players talk about the coach and the games along with the commentary that always comes from the folks around the organization and the league. I consider myself a fairly knowledgable fan and certainly would disagree with your claims above. I guess you didnt notice the lackluster play on the field or perhaps thought it didnt say anything about Capers coaching abilities eh Bobo?

Your examples of a good Defense in the Panthers and Bears game at the end of 04 are well noted. We also did pretty good that first year against Pittsburgh by holding them to 6 points.

But thats the problem Bobo - they were the very few good performances by a Defense that played pretty bad for the most part and had little to no bite against any team overall for most of the 4 years Capers & Fangio were coaches here.

Your example of year 3 were the "Vaunted "Defense" of Capers brought them to almost .500 also managed to allow more points that year against any team they had played in the 3 years they were around to the time.

They started that 04 year by allowing

San Diego 27 pts
Detroit 28 pts
Kansas City 21 pts
Oakland 17 pts
Minnesota 34 pts

For an Average of 25.4 points per game

Then they had a couple of good defensive games allowing

Tennessee 10
And the Jags - 6

But right after that they follow it up with a couple of stinkers again
Giving up 31 to Denver and a franchise worst 49 points to the Colts including giving up 5 TD's to Manning. This is the year they got to almost .500 allright, but it wasnt because the Defense was helping so much as the Offense was scoring more. Those are the facts Bobo - If you want to look em up - all you need do is hit the stats bar on the Texans website - the data is all there.

The defense continued to bomb out in 04 by giving up

16 v Greenbay
21 V Titans
29 v Jets
23 v Colts

This is all before they could stop the bleeding again with your 2 good games against the Jags and Bears. Then they wrap up Christmas and the season by giving up 22 pts to a very bad Cleveland team.

The points and facts are all there Bobo -The seasons production as a whole makes a big difference - The defense was bad for most of the 04 season and averaged close to 25+ points per game for the season. I dunno what system your used to watching for good defense and I wont assume, but the defense was just plain bad by the NFL grade and IMO we would have won more games as a team if the "Defense" would have at least been average that year. Then they follow that year up with 2-14. Honestly Bobo I dont want any part of a football coach who's defense spots the other team an average of 25 points per game as my coach. I honestly cannot fathom how that could translate as being a good coach for a defense anywhere in this league.

BTW - Anybody know if Vic Fangio has a job anywhere in the league this year?
 

Wolf

100% Texan
Bobo..what did you think of the Rams game? hmmm ... too bad it wasn't hockey where we have 2 intermissions where Capers could work his "motivation" speach
 

Wolf

100% Texan
Hervoyel said:
To begin with I don't think I've seen anyone who's opinion I consider worth anything speak badly of Capers since he was fired. There are always going to be those fans who are ready to lynch the coach or any assistant, player, or front office person they perceive to be "the problem" but those people don't know squat.

The opinions I'm seeing that matter (to me at least) are all fairly consistent in hanging the blame on Capers for not doing something about the coaches under him. He was in a bad marriage to Chris Palmer from the start and never held Vic Fangio accountable for putting the kind of defense that Capers was known for on the field. Then he brought in the clearly incompetent Joe Pendry to take "Palmer type" offensive picks and run a "Capers type" offense. Dom did not manage the people who worked for him and so he lost his job. End of story IMO.

If Kubiak does something with many of these same players then in my mind the case will be closed. Dom Capers is a fine man and a great defensive coordinator but he is not winning head coach material.
this sums alot of my feelings for Capers..

I still stick to my.. we did more with less in the first few years than last year
 

Bobo

Veteran
tsip said:
...and 1n 2004 Cohwer's record was 15-1 and- as you know- his team won the SB the next year...bottom line, Capers took us from 4-12 to 2-14 in just 4 yrs and the Texans are the only recent expansion team to not make the playoffs by their 4th year---yeah, heck of a job by, Dom, so noted by 'all' of the teams lining up to hire him...notttttttttttt
Thanks! You've proven my point! Cowher was 6-10 in 2003 after regressing 7 games in just two years and, instead of being fired, was given a chance to right the ship and did! So I guess you are agreeing with me that Capers should have been given that chance! I would sure like to know, though, why you continually ignore the accomplishments of Capers in which he improved the team's record two straight years, especially what he accomplished in 2004. Of course, I realize you do that because that fact doesn't fit in with your conclusion so you conveniently set it aside. Also, uh ... you do realize, don't you, that a comparison of a 2 game regression doesn't sound bad at all when you compare it with a seven-game regression in two years generated by Cowher, do you? Oh, and I do recall that Capers was a finalist for the Buffalo job, if you'd check your facts, of course -- something many folks seem to avoid like the plague. And you do realize by repeating this mantra of "nobody hired Capers as a head coach" does a lot of damage in regards to Kubiak's moves where Ragone, Bradford and Gaffney all got snatched up quickly by other teams -- especially Bradford who is pencilled in as a starter for the Lions this year, doncha? Yep, it's always nice to find a STARTER ON THE WAIVER WIRE!!!
 

Bobo

Veteran
Wolf said:
Bobo..what did you think of the Rams game? hmmm ... too bad it wasn't hockey where we have 2 intermissions where Capers could work his "motivation" speach
I was there and again, you have proven my point! If you would have noticed the players reactions at the end, there was certainly no indication of anybody quitting on Capers. If anything, the team was overconfident. But that certainly does not give any indication that the team had given up on Capers.
 

Wolf

100% Texan
Bobo said:
Thanks! You've proven my point! Cowher was 6-10 in 2003 after regressing 7 games in just two years and, instead of being fired, was given a chance to right the ship and did! So I guess you are agreeing with me that Capers should have been given that chance! I would sure like to know why you continually ignore the accomplishments of Capers in which he improved the team's record two straight years, especially what he accomplished in 2004. You do realize, don't you, that a comparison of a 2 game regression doesn't sound bad at all when you compare it with a seven-game regression in two years generated by Cowher, do you? Oh, and I do recall that Capers was a finalist for the Buffalo job, if you'd check your facts, of course -- something many folks seem to avoid like the plague. And you do realize by repeating this mantra of "nobody hired Capers as a head coach" does a lot of damage in regards to Kubiak's moves where Ragone, Bradford and Gaffney all got snatched up quickly by other teams -- especially Bradford who is pencilled in as a starter for the Lions this year, doncha? Yep, it's always nice to find a STARTER ON THE WAIVER WIRE!!!

Bill got a leadway because of his coaching history..it it was Bill's 3rd of 4th year in coaching, he probably would get the axe.. same with Jeff Fisher
 
Top