A win that will be taken the wrong way!

Vinny, David showed he could drive the ball today in two key situations. The Team showed that the pass offense is what this team has to do to be effective. I'm not saying don't run the ball, but rather that are running becomes effective when we establish our passing game. The passing game has to be established for us to effectively run the ball. We found a new running back who seemed to fill a void. JJ was just as effective as D. Hall. Our kicking game proved to be better in the final anlaysis. And, just as important as anything after the Coleman return, the defense began to play ball. Capers seems to like the two point conversion and that even went well. The only way to describe this win is as a TEAM WIN. Really every aspect of the ball club contributed to this win.

However, I hope Capers and company don't try to use this as vindication of what they do, because it is not. This game was won by being effective with the pass to our receivers, Gaffny, AJ, and Armstrong. The people on this board have been clamoring for them to receive the ball and wondering why it was not happening. Fans wanted us to strech the field. We have been yelling about blitzing to get pressure on the QB and that didn't happen until the end of the game. I think if you look at what the fan base on this web site has been saying, you could almost say it was a victory for us and our beliefs. DD was effectively benched and a new back steped forward. Surprise, surprise even though people had said he looked a lot better this spring. It was almost like Coleman lite a defensive fuse. Why has this team been so timid? Why have they felt they can't win? That is certainly the way they looked and acted to me.

The Danger is after this win the coaching staff will go back into their turtle shell and try to play to not loose. Today we played to win at the end and we did. Congratulations to the TEAM.


Once again, THIS WAS A TEAM WIN PURE AND SIMPLE.

There are so many points to be made, but I don't feel at ease expressing every thing I feel. May be some of you will be more articulate in your responses, but we have a jumping off point and I hope this ball club now can begin to develop into what it can be. This may be looked back to as the turning point in defining what this ball club can and is capable of doing.

Ibar_Harry said:

Vinny, David showed he could drive the ball today in two key situations.

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Sure he can. When I break down the most important player on the team I am just relaying my honest thoughts. Carr isn't a great player and he isn't a dog. He is somewhere in the middle right now and until he can take his game to a higher level I am not going to pretend that all his problems are because of Palmer or the offensive line. When he does something poorly I will speak of it and really, until today we have lost 6 games in a row in case you haven't noticed. Carr has plenty of things to work on in his game and I have never stated he would not mature. My personal take is that Carr is going to be fine, but if you think I am not going to express what I see you are wrong. I'm proud of him today and he did well despite the heat and the pressure from a heated rush. That doesn't make him an All-Pro though. I kind of view Carr as I do Trent Dilfer. Dilfer took a few years to get used to the pro game, eventually took his team to the Super Bowl and is a heck of a fine man. I would be happy to have Carr settle in and give us a solid, consistent, dependable player. Carr may be a little better than Dilfer was long run but neither of these guys are Elway or Montana.

I don't think this game is a turning point. It's just a win and we are the same team we were yesterday. We haven't seen many wins around here lately and I'm very happy about it. Let's get another one.

I thought we lost 5 in a row? Maybe I'm forgetting a game.

DD was benched because of his ankle injury. He injured it in the first quarter, and he continued to try and play with pain. So I wouldn't be calling for him to be benched just yet. Kind of hard for DD to run with a bad wheel.

...much of what you say is true! The Texans are 'coached not to lose,'
instead of being 'coached to win.' It was nice to see this philosophy
changed late in the game yesterday and lead the team to a win. Too,
it was encouraging to see non-producing players replaced by ones who-
in this particular game- could do a better job.

Teams often brag they win games when they have a rusher going over
the 100 yd mark, but that appears to be on the decline in the NFL. It
did not help the Chiefs yesterday. And, look at the Titans. They've got
a feature back who has rushed for over 100 yds in every game so far but
only have 1 victory to show for it.

Winning in the NFL is more difficult than ever and there is no one set
formula for victory. It is more than ever a 'one game' at a time challenge.
Teams that make fewer mistakes and are able to adapt to game situations
are going to win. The Texans did this in the 4th qtr yesterday when they
made changes to put pressure on the KC quarterback and opened up the
offense. This may not be the formula needed to win the next game but
what is important here is that they continue to adapt to game situations
and make the adjustments to win.

texasguy346 said:

I thought we lost 5 in a row? Maybe I'm forgetting a game.

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It was 6. Here they are. We averaged less than two TD's a game over this span (aprox 13 points a game).

at Jaguars 0-27
at Buccaneers 3-16
Titans 24-27
Colts 17-20
Chargers 20-27
at Lions 16-28

Ibar_Harry said:

And, just as important as anything after the Coleman return, the defense began to play ball.

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After sheer, raw athletic ability, the most important element in a football teams performance is not coaching, strategy, prepartion, etc. it is emotion. Football is a very emotional game for the participants. When someone makes
a huge play that turns the game around like Coleman did yesterday, emotion can take over for the D (even when the level of physical fatique is high) and
immediately elevate performance. Just as the D's level of performance can
sag with an emotional letdown as it did last week in Detroit after DD fumbled.

Teamwork and fewer turnovers and penalties works. The players played with true grit. We can't take Oakland lightly or we'll be 1-3. I do think 2-2 is, for the first time, something the Texans hold in their hands. With the home crowd pushing the Texans on, 2 in a row can't be far behind.

I agree with yall are saying. Nunusguy made a pretty good statement about emotion in football. People seem to forget that. The same emotion that turned the game around for us yesterday is the same emotion that drained us the 1st two weeks of the seaon when we turned the ball over so much in key situations.

Vinny said:

It was 6. Here they are. We averaged less than two TD's a game over this span (aprox 13 points a game).

at Jaguars 0-27
at Buccaneers 3-16
Titans 24-27
Colts 17-20
Chargers 20-27
at Lions 16-28

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Having Ragone in at QB doesn't help the win column.

wags said:

Having Ragone in at QB doesn't help the win column.

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Ok, throw out the Jacksonville game and we still didn't score more than 2 offensive TD's in any of those 5 games.

*I'm not sure what that has to do with any point I am or am not making in this thread but it is an interesting stat anyhoo.

He played the Bucs game also.

It seems like a lot of people are saying what I have said in different ways. That is we did some things differently and used some players differently. The end result was a win and its time for those changes to be looked at as the way it should be done. The game of football is played by a TEAM of your best players chemistry wise not necessary your best players physically or technique wise. Good example is Peek, you can say all you want about what he can't do, but if the other team can't do them because of what he is doing then its pointless to argue that point. If he brings fire to the ball club and causes everyone to up their play and cover his A** because he's bringing the pressure necessary to help them, then you play him. Football is an art, not a science.

AGAIN MY MAIN POINT IS ITS NOW TIME FOR THE COACHES TO ADAPT, OVERCOME and OPEN THEIR EYES to what they are doing wrong, not just what the players are doing wrong. Conformity in the NFL gets you nowhere. Innovation and the unexpected leads to winning seasons.

I think some may be forgeting that Capers was hired for his methodical approach to the game. He uses the run to eat up the clock & keep the other offense on the bench. Sounds a lot like Fisher @ Tennessee. While he is not adverse to passing, he seems to use it very selectively. Personally, I want to see the offense open it up more. We used high draft choices for Johnson & Gafney and Armstrong & Bradford gives us potentially the best 4 receivers in the league. (I've no stats to support).

I don't think Capers plays not to lose as many fans suggest. He wants to use his mature defense (see makeup of defense) to hold the score down and win a close game. I admit a 20+ yard catch gets me off the couch but so does a 20+ yard pass that is intercepted.

I BAR did you say we had a wells step in and take the RB position easily, I mean dont get me wrong he did "ok" but still nothing compared to what D.D coulda done with the ball. So how can ya say that wells stepped in and easily took the job 36 yrds ??? i dunno

I'm guessing TexasGuy346 was thinking we were including preseason games. In that case we only had a 5 game losing streak. Since those games don't count, it is a 6 game losing streak (4 to end last season).

Ibar_Harry said:

It seems like a lot of people are saying what I have said in different ways. That is we did some things differently and used some players differently. The end result was a win and its time for those changes to be looked at as the way it should be done.

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Personally I liked the flow of our offense a lot better in the first two games. Without all of the turnovers, we probably beat San Diego and possibly Detroit. This game came turned on one tremendous play. Without that, we are getting rocked by the Chiefs like we were last season.

Defense is another matter. I liked some of the things I saw from our defense. They won this game for us.

Personally I feel like we stole one from the Chiefs but had our first two games stolen from us. The key things we changed were turnover ratio and a somewhat improved pass-rush (mainly the second half). We had our worst o-line play since the (second) Jacksonville game last year. Penalties are still a problem. Carr's first two passes into the endzone on our first drive were inexcussible. We got lucky and escaped with a win. Now lets go out and beat the Raiders.

He still needs to stop throwing the ball to defenders. Right now he's got 4 picks, which after the 3rd week is too much.

I can't call out names but some of you are saying a few things I like to comment on plus a few of my own thoughts

First, Capers should take blame for not adapting to a team's scheme of play against our offense. Too many times did I see AJ doubled with a corner and safety...Do we not have three other viable WRs?

Second, you guys say Carr has to mature...I think he is progressing BUT how much are you going to progress when your coach doesn't mind the dump off a million times to your RB for check downs. I doubt any team we have played this year had outstanding corners and safeties. Injuries were in the secondary for every team we played yet we still RUN.

Okay thirdly,(is that a word )anyways...Dominick is not running scared and is so concerned about fumbling that he isn't running with instinct but with such care of the football that he can't cut back as good as he did the past two weeks. The cheifs defense had something to do with that so did our o-line but he was obviously slowed this week.

I love this board...I don't say much but I read a lot. Keep it up Vinny and Huge and SheTexan...okay I don't know everybody but a big shout out to ya'll

a lot of what is being said here is true...and one thing that has been bothering me the past few seasons...the coaching staff playing the game not to lose instead of trying to win...now don't get me wrong i don't want a coach like martz who is a complete and total *****...but teams that play this way tend not to play with a lot of heart...capers is a defensive minded coach which is something i typically like...but when it comes to offense he really doesn't know much...he seemed to create an offense this season that is made for DD to make his 2,000yds...DD isn't that type of player...he's a good runningback but i think with the recievers we have and with carr's potential we should be airing it out more...as for carr...with the right system he can put up some amazing numbers...right now though if he gets 2,800 yds passing with more td's than int's i'll be amazed

keyfro said:

a lot of what is being said here is true...and one thing that has been bothering me the past few seasons...the coaching staff playing the game not to lose instead of trying to win...now don't get me wrong i don't want a coach like martz who is a complete and total *****...but teams that play this way tend not to play with a lot of heart...capers is a defensive minded coach which is something i typically like...but when it comes to offense he really doesn't know much...he seemed to create an offense this season that is made for DD to make his 2,000yds...DD isn't that type of player...he's a good runningback but i think with the recievers we have and with carr's potential we should be airing it out more...as for carr...with the right system he can put up some amazing numbers...right now though if he gets 2,800 yds passing with more td's than int's i'll be amazed

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Well, right now Carr is on pace for about 4,000 yards passing. Barring injury he will easily get 3,000 yards. As far as TD-INT ratio, I think that will change the further we get into the season.

wags said:

Well, right now Carr is on pace for about 4,000 yards passing. Barring injury he will easily get 3,000 yards. As far as TD-INT ratio, I think that will change the further we get into the season.

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Yeah stats can lie but now two are on my list for most accurate stats, turnover ratio and giving up sacks (credit to Lucky for digging this up):

NFL Starting QBs sacked on average of 2X or less/game - 61 TDs 32 INTs

NFL Starting QBs sacked on average of over 2X/game - 43 TDs 41 INTs

NFL Starting QBs sacked on average of over 3X/game - 10 TDs 15 INTs

On average, David Carr is sacked 3.33 times a game. Now that's horrible.

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The Texans need to do two things--(1) develop a better OL through gelling or schemes this season plus off-season additions for next year and (2) reacting to the progress of number one--develop offensive schemes to go with the progress of the OL, i.e. don't react to fan pressure to throw the bomb all the time, instead go to quick passing schemes like the Patriots run.

TheOgre said:

I'm guessing TexasGuy346 was thinking we were including preseason games. In that case we only had a 5 game losing streak. Since those games don't count, it is a 6 game losing streak (4 to end last season).

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That's what I was thinking, but I see now Vinny was referring to the end of last season to the first two games of this season.

I don't think Carr's picks have anything to do with getting sacked this year. 3 of them are because of poor throws, and the other one was batted at the LOS. I saw the other 3 picks and they were just bad throws. Sure, Gaff fell down on the one in KC but that throw wasn't high enough and could have easily been picked if he remained on his feet.

I will 100% agree with you on the sack average - that is way too high in order to be great offense. But the picks that Carr has thrown this year IMO have not been the direct result of poor O-line play. They were just simply poorly thrown passes.

JackDizzle said:

I don't think Carr's picks have anything to do with getting sacked this year. 3 of them are because of poor throws, and the other one was batted at the LOS. I saw the other 3 picks and they were just bad throws. Sure, Gaff fell down on the one in KC but that throw wasn't high enough and could have easily been picked if he remained on his feet.

I will 100% agree with you on the sack average - that is way too high in order to be great offense. But the picks that Carr has thrown this year IMO have not been the direct result of poor O-line play. They were just simply poorly thrown passes.

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I wouldn't look at it so much from the INT standpoint, but rather the TD. Carr gets way more pressure than probably any QB in the league. The stats Cak put up show that with good protection you will see more TD passes.