It looks a though, this will another 4 or 5 win season. If that's the case, I really don't believe David Carr is all that everyone thought he would be. Next season, the Texans really need to look for another quarterback. He is starting to remind of Tony Banks when he used to play for the Rams....good stats, losing record.
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Time For A Change
- Thread starter Micheal
- Start date
OzzO
.. and then?
Disgree. I do think we make sure we have quality good backups though. Would you want to start over with another rook or David starting his 4th season?
I don't think it's all on one player that changing him would result in a better record.
Now start looking for no turnovers, stepped up defense, and less penalties the rest of this season... then I could get on board with that.
I don't think it's all on one player that changing him would result in a better record.
Now start looking for no turnovers, stepped up defense, and less penalties the rest of this season... then I could get on board with that.
nah carr has the arm...two of his picks this year came from tipped passes which he can't control so right now i only see him have one pick this season...he has what it takes to be good but we have to get him to get out of these little passes to DD...still want to see the long ball to johnson
Man you need to calm down. I've been waiting on this to happen. After last year everyone was spouting off at the mouth, Carr this and Carr that. You know what, the guy is doing awesome! Blame him all you want but the guy is 4th in total passing yards, had a passer rating of 109 after the loss to Detroit and not to mention was sacked 5 times and running for his life on several occasions. Geez, what else do you want from this guy? He's still got things to work on but god he looks so much better than the last two years. When is the rest of the team gonna step up? Carrs on the level where he needs to be. Where's everyone else????? Don't pull that, he keeps throwing it to DD every play crud because if he didn't have a hand in his face every other play the ball would be going elsewhere and you saw it quite a few times against Detroit when the man had time to throw.
shansmacker
Practice Squad
I think you are waaaay out of bounds in your assessment of DC up to this point.When he starts getting consistant pass protection and he still has problems moving his team down the field maybe ill think differently but as for what I see now he is doing an excellant job considering he still doesnt have the consistant pass protection he needs.
If you really think the Texans need another QB...then they better start looking for a new coach & GM as well. David Carr is Casserly & Caper's baby. They brought him in with the 1st pick, they built this franchise around him. If Carr's a bust, then C&C don't deserve to stay.Micheal said:
So is that what you're calling for? A complete dismantling of the organization?
JDizzle
I'm a dude
I have an idea: Let's bench Carr for the remainder of the season, and start Banks, better yet, let's start Ragone. That way we can go 0 - 16 and draft Leinart. Yeah, then we'll be a powerhouse of the NFL for sure. While you're at it, you might want to find a couple of offensive linemen who can keep interior defensive linemen out of the backfield.
Come on people, this is starting to get ridiculous. If you're going to make statements like that then you really should back it up with something concrete.
Hi, I'm earth, have we met?
Come on people, this is starting to get ridiculous. If you're going to make statements like that then you really should back it up with something concrete.
Hi, I'm earth, have we met?
Now that you bought it up. If the Texans does not have at least an 8-8 season, Caper should be fired.
I do remember when Kurt Warner was playing for the Rams and went to the Superbowl his first year. He constantly had defensive linemen in his face just like David Carr. It's the quarterback people.
I do remember when Kurt Warner was playing for the Rams and went to the Superbowl his first year. He constantly had defensive linemen in his face just like David Carr. It's the quarterback people.
Lucky said:
Maybe the Giants would trade Warner to the Texans for Carr? Would that make you happy?Micheal said:
Now that you brought it up, it's always the QB. Carr is secretly greasing the ball before giving it to DD. He's sneaking in on defense and giving up 3rd & long conversions. He should have made that tackle on the kick return TD. He should disregard the plays coming in and only call bombs to AJ. D-linemen should bounce off his body like a rubber ball. Carr is killing this football team, single-handedly.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I'm going to say it again, the Texans lack of defensive pressure on the opposing QB, along with lack of protection to ours combined with mental mistakes on both sides resulting in penalties & turnovers is the root cause of the poor beginning to this season. When Carr has time, he can throw down the field with accuracy, Armstrong looks like a weapon, Babin & Robinson are doing fine, Mosses needs to sit on kick-offs for Starling & return punts only. 
Carr in particular and the offense in general are doing fine and we are gonna ge OK in that department - as long as we can get DD to hold on to the ball and we don't get hit with a batch of injuries. OK we need to get more TDs and
fewer FGs in the Red Zone, but they are moving the ball with sustained drives.
And they looked pretty good preseason.
But the D is something else. I have a nagging feeling that we got some real "structural" problems there,i.e., we just don't have the level of talent in
our personnel on that side of the ball that we need to effectively compete.
fewer FGs in the Red Zone, but they are moving the ball with sustained drives.
And they looked pretty good preseason.
But the D is something else. I have a nagging feeling that we got some real "structural" problems there,i.e., we just don't have the level of talent in
our personnel on that side of the ball that we need to effectively compete.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I agree nun with your assement of the offense & this coming draft look at a premium DT to upgrade pressure on the QB. However I think we have the talent to compete now its just that they are still adjusting to each other, the system and Walker & Payne are not 100% back from last seasons injurys. I thought all along it would take them until mid sesaon to jell, unfortunatly the offense has not capitalized but instead capitalized upon :pickle:
JDizzle
I'm a dude
Bottle-O-Bud said:
Care to provide us with something to back that up?
I would like to see Carr on a west coast offense.Palmer's offense looks like its suffering from severe form of constapation. It's so hard to get anything done.
Especially when you turn the ball over 7 times. I guess it is the coaches fault for not ordering super tackified footballs.
JDizzle
I'm a dude
Bottle-O-Bud said:
I would then ask you to back that up also, along with your previous statement. Backing up the statement "33 carries sets up a QB to fail" with the crafty, whiz of a comeback "the coaches predictability is causing all the turnovers" is like trying to cover up the smell of dog **** with another scoop of dog ****. I'm not trying to be rude, I just want to know how you're coming up with this stuff.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
The Person who needs to go is Palmer and Capers philosiphy. Think about it if all they were going to do was run the ball, why did they draft a quarterback #1 and then a wr in the 2nd in the first years draft. Then Draft another wr #3 ovrl. I like DD alot, but hes not a workhorse type back, hes to small and hasn't proven he can stay healthy for a whole season yet. He has solidified the rb position though. So we can run and pass that makes us a 2 dimensional and balanced offense, but our coaching staff leaves us one dimensional by taking out the passing game, a job that should be left up to the opposing defense. That leaves the opposing defense stacking up against the run resulting in fewer YPC and a higher chance of turnovers. Successful coaches don't force a team to fit their philosiphy. They change their philosiphy to fit the talent and strength of the team. Carr is the guy and hes playing real well. Hes only 2 games into his 3rd year so its to soon to dismiss him already. Plus he has shown significant improvement, just wait til the end of the year. I have a feeling hes going to breakout.
texan279
Hall of Fame
I think the reason the are using the running game so much is to try and open up the passing game. But it has gotten to the point of 2 runs, 1 pass, punt, 2 runs, one pass, punt. They need to mix it up. Try pass, run, pass, or pass, pass, run. I liked what the Eagles and Vikes did last night on offense. I remember one 2nd and 2 the Eagles had I think, and they lined up in shotgun, 2 RB's, and 3 WR's. That is what we need to start doing, mixing it up a bit, stop being so conservative and predictable. Also, until Davis proves he can stop dropping the rock for awhile, I think they should look at splitting RB duties 50/50 with Davis and Hollings. Not just having Hollings spell Davis for a play or 2 for a breather. I would say bench Davis, but I know Capers won't.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
texan279 said:
I said that in a post during the game. All they do is run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... Its like a skipping record, they need to be more deceptive with the play calling. Now we're 0-2 with not much to lose being heavy underdogs against KC, let the ball fly more and not just on third down.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Carr Bomb said:
That is not our problem. Our problem is we don't score TD's and we turn the ball over. We move the ball plenty well and are one of the better teams in the league between the 20's. The next time we score 30 points in a game or our QB throws 3 TD's in a game will be the first time.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I know turnovers are our biggest problem, thats a given. I'm just saying I'll like us to mix it up a little. I've been hearing how Palmer hasn't fully opened the playbook and this year he was. I like to see us open it up and see how explosive this offense can be, because right now with our defense strugleing our offense is probally going to have to carry more of the load.
It takes time to develop a GOOD Q.B.It takes even longer to make a GREAT one.If D.D hadnt fumbled the ball in the last two games,we would be 2 and 0.I watched the game again yesterday,and he (DAVID) had a look in his eyes I didnt like,(only in the 2nd quater)as if he didnt have any confidence....maybe he was sick,but he didnt look like the David Carr I have been watching.This weekend will be a good chance to get the offense rolling up some big numbers.Someone on our defense needs to step up and be a leader on the field and in the locker room,I dont care if its Sharper,G-funk whom ever...someone needs to take control and light a fire under their ***s.I am very disapointed on our defenses play so far this year,I really was expecting our defense to light some people up,as for DDs fumbles.....I still cant believe what I am seeing....but I believe we can fix it.I dont know how old you are,but I remember back in the old oiler days after losing a couple of games, coming back and winning 11 in a row.We are still a third year team....maybe we ALL got our hopes up little to soon 
HJam72
Hall of Fame
We're losing because of fumbles. No fumbles and we're 2-0 right now, talking about how we think we're gonna stomp all over poor KC. The play calling is too predictable, but, when you think about it, it's working. We are winning these games in every category, except turnovers and final score.
I did watch the game, but I was surprised too find out that we actually had 5 sacks against us. Carr was under way more pressure than I thought and that explains a lot about why he keeps dumping off to DD. They're not protecting Carr and that's why the coaches only want to pass when they have to--3rd and long (long is a relative term).
I don't think we we should judge Carr or the coaches when DD keeps dropping the ball and Carr is getting sacked 5 times in a game. It's amazing we scored as much as we did. Throw in a kickoff return against us and we really had it rough.
David Carr is not nearly as good as he will be, but he's getting there and I can't see any major flaws. Someone said that he is Capers baby (or something similar) and he is probably deserving of that. We're not talking about that QB that Dallas finally let go this preseason or the one that Pittsburgh's Cowher used to love so much. Carr has real talent and a brain in his head to go with it. I see him as a bonafide future star in this league and he's made fewer rookie mistakes than I would have actually expected.
I did watch the game, but I was surprised too find out that we actually had 5 sacks against us. Carr was under way more pressure than I thought and that explains a lot about why he keeps dumping off to DD. They're not protecting Carr and that's why the coaches only want to pass when they have to--3rd and long (long is a relative term).
I don't think we we should judge Carr or the coaches when DD keeps dropping the ball and Carr is getting sacked 5 times in a game. It's amazing we scored as much as we did. Throw in a kickoff return against us and we really had it rough.
David Carr is not nearly as good as he will be, but he's getting there and I can't see any major flaws. Someone said that he is Capers baby (or something similar) and he is probably deserving of that. We're not talking about that QB that Dallas finally let go this preseason or the one that Pittsburgh's Cowher used to love so much. Carr has real talent and a brain in his head to go with it. I see him as a bonafide future star in this league and he's made fewer rookie mistakes than I would have actually expected.
IMO i think the team is doing good and everyone is looking good, i think no one on the TEAM is to blame, i think its the coaching whether it's Capers or Palmer, i know the coaches aren't the one's thats playing the game but when your running back gets 11 receptions when you have 4 explosive receivers shows you that your not calling the right plays, we're looking like the chargers of last year but the difference is that we actually do have receivers come on we need to get it together n get a win
Panther5407
Rookie
Carr can only do so much. He needs others (O-line and the Big D) to help him out. Tom Brady could have a team that didn't preform around him but would that make his greatness any less?
HoustonLionsFan
Waterboy
Lions only scored on one of the fumbles, and won by 2 TD's. You would be 1 - 1 without the fumbles. Lions beat you, quit making excuses. The better team won.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
HoustonLionsFan said:
One of those touches was a runback. Maybe we're not giving Detroit's pass rush enough credit (I have no idea), but they won the turnover ratio 3-1 and obviously beat us on special teams. That's the biggest difference in the game. Take away those 2 fumbles and take back that runback--what have you got? Houston wins. I think what we're saying here is that the Texans should be better than what they're doing, not that Detroit isn't good.
I'm absolutely not telling you what to do, but, if you don't want to hear about the Lions game, maybe you should take a break from here until next week or a few days, anyway. We're furious about those 2 fumlbes and what might've been. You probably don't want to hear it.
HoustonLionsFan
Waterboy
Unlike alot of you, I actually think Carr will be a good QB. I haven't watched as many games as all of ya'll, but from what I've seen, he has the tools. A ton of sacks (oline), fumbles, and conservative play calling hurt him. He will be fine, just an outsiders point of view. And I might add, he may be better than Harrington.
HJam- I understand what you are saying, but ST's and TO's are a part of the game. If the Lions would have lost because of TO's I would not be saying they were the better team, but the Texans got lucky. I would say the Texans won that game fair and square, no excuses, good game. I was just saying that the Lions were a team the Texans COULD beat, not SHOULD beat, TO's or no. I think the 7:30 min drive to put the game away showed Detroit was the better team, at least last Sun.
HJam- I understand what you are saying, but ST's and TO's are a part of the game. If the Lions would have lost because of TO's I would not be saying they were the better team, but the Texans got lucky. I would say the Texans won that game fair and square, no excuses, good game. I was just saying that the Lions were a team the Texans COULD beat, not SHOULD beat, TO's or no. I think the 7:30 min drive to put the game away showed Detroit was the better team, at least last Sun.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
HoustonLionsFan said:
The Lions only scored on one of the fumbles but the Texans did not score on either posession that ended in a fumble. A turnover has three aspects that should be clear to anyone who studies the game.
1. When you turn the ball over the opposition can and often does score and so points off of turnovers are important.
2. When you turn the ball over you have denied yourself a drive in which you might have scored. Drives that end in fumbles and interceptions are lost opportunities. Not all of them may have ended in 7 (or even 3) points but some of them may have.
3. When you turn the ball over momentum is almost always affected. Momentum is an enormous factor in who wins and who loses a football game. If you give your opponent momentum (or in the Texans case if you keep giving your opponent momentum over and over again like they have the past two weeks) it's going to turn the tide of the game.
The better team won Sunday. Of that I have no doubt. The Texans are not a very good football team right now and whether the Lions are a little bit better or are a whole lot better doesn't really matter. They were (and are until the Texans can prove otherwise) a better team. Trying to work out what's wrong with your team however isn't "making excuses". It's Texans fans on (you may have failed to notice it on your way in) the Texans board talking about why their team lost. Nothing more.
HoustonLionsFan said:
True, Lions only scored a TD on one of DD's fumbles. We are talking turn overs in general. 12:15 in the second quarter DC throws an interception to K. Smith on Det 37 yrd line. 7:00 Joey Harrington throws a TD pass to C.Schlesinger. One score off of a turnover.
11:28 in the third quarter DD fumbles. 6:45 J.Harrington throws a TD pass to Williams. Two scores off of turnovers.
Lions 28 Texans 16. Lions win by 12. Points off of turnovers 14. In my book without the turnovers Texans win by 2.
Stats from nfl.com full play-by-play link for the game.
HoustonLionsFan
Waterboy
cyanides said:
If you're going to do that, you have to mention that Texans did not score after they intercepted Harrington. That is why I omitted Int.'s. And based off that observation, 7 points off two fumbles, Lions still win by 5, all other TO's being accounted for
HoustonLionsFan
Waterboy
Hervoyel said:
You're assuming that they would have scored TD's and Detroit wouldn't have got the ball back and scored anyway. You can't do that.
FYI- Texans are my second team behind the Lions. Some of you have only talked about mistakes, but many, as in the people I was posting to, act as if the Texans SHOULD have won. I guessed you missed the point.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
HoustonLionsFan said:
And if you are going to do that, you have to mention that the Lions got the ball back a few plays later off another DD fumble. The Lions got the win. Be happy with that and stop trying to act like 21 gimme points didn't make a difference.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
HoustonLionsFan said:
You need to go back and read items 2 and 3 again. I am assuming nothing. I said that when you turn the ball over you not only are giving the other team an opportunity to score but you are also taking away one of yours. I never said you would score without a doubt. I also said that you are handing the other team momentum. A turnover can completely alter the flow of the game. Multiple turnovers can turn a game into a route. One look at the Texans players heads hanging after the second DD fumble told me everything I needed to know about the outcome of that game. They weren't coming back. They'd have been lucky to successfully come back to Houston after that second drop. Momentum and emotion. They go away when you turn the ball over repeatedly.
If the Texans are your second team then you must have been witness to or at least heard of the Pittsburgh game in 2002? The one where the Texans were beaten badly in every possible statistical catagory but the Steelers continued to make mistakes and turned the ball over again and again?
The Steelers moved the ball well all day long but had drives repeatedly turned into Texans points through interceptions. Now certainly that is an extreme example but it remains valid. As the game progressed the Texans, despite being absolutely pitiful everytime the offense walked onto the field seemed to take control of the game. The Steelers grew less effective and were clearly pressing.
HoustonLionsFan
Waterboy
infantrycak said:
Ummm... I did mention he TO.
If that's what you have to tell yourself, OK. But a kick return is by no means a 'gimme'. And it's not like the Lions picked up the fumble from the 1 yd line and walked it in. Or returnrd the Int for a TD. They actually drove the shortened field. Over 40 yds on each if I remeber right, that is in no way a 'gimme.' Maybe you should blame the Def for not stopping them after the TO?
HoustonLionsFan
Waterboy
Herv- I didn't need to read the items again, it was too much of the coulda, shoulda, woulda game. Yes, TO change games, but they are part of the game. Same as ST's. The better teams excel at not turning the ball over, capitalizing on TO's, and playing better ST's, Nuff Said.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
aj. said:
I was exaggerating I thought that was obvious, so stop nick picking. Also I do watch the game closely I tape them and review them and I know what I see. The offense is a little too conservative and they dont do it like alot of teams(did you watch last nights game, hell did you watch the team that we played again last week). They still could of beat the teams in the first two weeks with that offense though if it wasn't for the sloppy play. But If we're going to consistently be able to compete against elite defenses(like the ones playoff caliber teams have) were going to have to make the playcalling a little more complex and deceptive, thats all I'm saying. JMO
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Ok leave Carr alone with those kind of numbers we should be 2-0 maybe he needs to hold D.D hand while he runs the ball and then maybe we could win a few games ! I dunno all this bad talking Carr is really getting old what more do you want ????? I mean we dont have much of a line and he's still kicking *** on tha stat sheets (i know but no wins) Well they will come when we limit the turnovers and or defense steps up !!
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
who were you replying to?
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
DD scored a 1000+ yards last year in how many games? We change our offensive blocking scheme to better serve the run. What does that do? Generally a blocking scheme designed for the run is not an effective pass blocking scheme. Oh, so Carr is getting a lot more pressure this year!!! I wonder why? The root cause of the problems is our coaches and their fixation on the run. Yes, its important, but they have gone overboard again. At the end of last year our line was beginning to come together and give David some protection. It wasn't perfect, but it was a lot better than this year. DD was doing well out of that scheme. Once again, don't fix what is working. Injuries hurt us more than anything at the end of the season. Some people are saying people are busting right up the middle to get to our QB. Doesn't surprise me at all. To create a pocket for the passer is a very different process that trying to create lanes or holes for the RB. You need space for the runner, but when protecting the passer you won't no holes. I'm sorry, but no one really is catching on to what is happening. Again, quit blaming the players and look to the coaches. They are the problem visa vi their offensive philosophies.
Ibar_Harry said:
I understand what you are saying but, I have to imagine that david lets the oline know when they are going to run the ball or pass the ball. On a run play oline adjust to create holes for DD to run through. On pass plays oline tries to prevent holes from opening to better give David the time he needs to throw the ball. I can't really give examples and will have to go back and watch the games, but I just have to assume the line play changes depending on the call.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I thought about that to. They select a Quaterback #1 ovrl. and give him talented wrs and then put a line in place thats strength is running the ball. I mean I wouldn't have a problem with it if the line was more balanced. They need to get better at pass protection fast. Balance is what we need.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Hey I just became a vet. damn I was wondering when that was going to happen
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
cyanides said:
I believe you will find that the offensive line men are spaced further apart and you don't change the look for the pass as that would key the defense as to your intentions. I'm sorry, but I think this is a very big part of the problem. When you set up as a passing team you are not going to be as good a running team and vice versa. You have to judge what your strengths are and choose accordingly. Unfortunately, I believe our coaching staff has a fixation with the run. That is not the strength of this group of offensive players.
Ibar_Harry said:
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. If you don't want to hold the players accountable for not executing, then you have no business pointing any fingers at the coaches.
First off, the zone blocking scheme that is used on running plays doesn't have thing to do with pass protection. Or in the Texans case, the lack of it. Carr didn't have any more time to throw last year as he does this year. As a matter of fact, i don't recall any game of their existence where Carr has had more time to thow than the opposing quarterback. NEVER! The reason why Carr has to dump it off to Davis all the time, is because the offensive line is not giving him enough time to look downfield. If you watched last night's game, all Daunte Culpepper could do was dump it off because his line was giving him time to look downfield. Blaming the coaches because the OL isn't protecting the QB is a lame copout.
They're getting beat in the trenches, both in the DL and OL. That is why the opposing QB always has more time to throw than Carr does, even in the games that they have won. And like I said in another thread, even though they are getting whipped upfront on BOTH sides of the ball, Carr is still putting up decent numbers. And if it weren't for the turnovers, we'd still be 2-0.
But the bottom line is this. Untill both the defensive and offensive lines have a chance to develop into cohesive units, and actually be on the right side of the "time to throw" department, they are not a good football team.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Ibar Harry! you are making an excellent point and I am all over it. I think our line splits are indeed larger. When you are a running team you want big healthy splits and perhaps we are having a hard time adjusting to them in our pass protections. It may take till the bye week to adjust to our new blocking schemes. You just gave me something to look at when I watch the game for the 3rd time tomorrow.Ibar_Harry said:
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
cyanides said:
You said you were going to rewatch the games. Do so and let me know what you think. You might gain some insight if you have an open mind. To pass protect you need to build a pocket and that is very different from the process of opening up a hole or lane for the running back. The emphasis has changed to create a whole for the running back. I just personally believe that this new blocking scheme has hurt the deveopment of our O-line and team. There are obviously people who believe otherwise and they are free to do so. However, keep an open mind and check for yourself.