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Bush wants $30 million guaranteed
- Thread starter Johnny Utah
- Start date
Mike Kerns
LYSB Podcast
It is just like buying a car. Do you take the first price they throw at you? They sure as hell aren't going to lowball themselves.
"But there are about 30 million reasons why that scenario just might play itself out April 29.
That's the figure, in dollars, Bush's negotiating team apparently threw out in their only round of "contract talks" with the Texans, according to word circulating throughout the draft grapevine the past week or so. "
************************************************
"according to word circulating throughout the draft grapevine"
I dunno....but that doesn't exactly sound like a hard and fast source to me.
The author of this story may have got his training at "The Dan Rather school of Creative Journalism".
That's the figure, in dollars, Bush's negotiating team apparently threw out in their only round of "contract talks" with the Texans, according to word circulating throughout the draft grapevine the past week or so. "
************************************************
"according to word circulating throughout the draft grapevine"
I dunno....but that doesn't exactly sound like a hard and fast source to me.
The author of this story may have got his training at "The Dan Rather school of Creative Journalism".
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This should be expected from anyone taken #1. Alex Smith's contract had $24 mil in guaranteed money. Just a 10% increase (and the cap increase was more than 10%) gets you to $26.4 mil. $30 as an opener isn't shocking.
Texans86
Rookie
Theres a slight difference between throwing a number out there, and being absurd. I'm not quite sure where that line is, but knowing Alex Smith's guaranteed money would be nice. That would give comparison. If A.Smith got like $15-20 million guaranteed then I'd laugh at Bush and say see you in the playoffs.
texansfaninla
Waterboy
Here's the story on Alex Smith's contract:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2116234
"Smith will receive $24 million in guaranteed money, which includes his bonus. Smith's average annual salary of $8.25 million tops the $7.5 million average the Giants gave to quarterback Eli Manning, the first pick in the 2004 draft."
Is Bush worth from $1M-$6M more than Smith? I'd say yes. There was definitely no consensus last year as to who the best player was. As for this year - Hell, the Niners-Texans game was freaking labled the "Bush Bowl".
Does he get $30M guaranteed? No. But he probably gets around $27M. Plus my
.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2116234
"Smith will receive $24 million in guaranteed money, which includes his bonus. Smith's average annual salary of $8.25 million tops the $7.5 million average the Giants gave to quarterback Eli Manning, the first pick in the 2004 draft."
Is Bush worth from $1M-$6M more than Smith? I'd say yes. There was definitely no consensus last year as to who the best player was. As for this year - Hell, the Niners-Texans game was freaking labled the "Bush Bowl".
Does he get $30M guaranteed? No. But he probably gets around $27M. Plus my
.
Texans86
Rookie
Now knowing A.Smith's number, I still think Bush came in a little high. He isn't a quarterback, and doesn't deserve quarterback money. Amazingly enough, A.Smith's agent probably screwed us the most, because he wasn't the concensus number one, and yet got paid the same. R.Bush doesn't deserve a huge increase over his predecessors wages, first because he isn't a quarterback, which demands the most money, and second because rookies get paid too much in the first place, but that's another topic.
Johnny Utah
Rookie
Word was that Bush wanted QB money. Well, this is beyond QB money. It's John Elway type money if he were to come out this year.
Mike Kerns
LYSB Podcast
Plus incentives & the tons of marketing he will do. Heard Adidas wants to make him the 2nd highest marketed player after Peyton Manning...texansfaninla said:Here's the story on Alex Smith's contract:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2116234
"Smith will receive $24 million in guaranteed money, which includes his bonus. Smith's average annual salary of $8.25 million tops the $7.5 million average the Giants gave to quarterback Eli Manning, the first pick in the 2004 draft."
Is Bush worth from $1M-$6M more than Smith? I'd say yes. There was definitely no consensus last year as to who the best player was. As for this year - Hell, the Niners-Texans game was freaking labled the "Bush Bowl".
Does he get $30M guaranteed? No. But he probably gets around $27M. Plus my
Texans86
Rookie
I think Reggie Bush heard he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, according to (insert media head here). He seems like a great guy, and an even better back, but I have problems who are good, and know it. I know its hard to be humble when money is on the line, but $30 million is an exhorbent amount for someone who has never touched a football in the pros. That is more than proven probowlers will get in free agency.
Someone needs to contact the NFLPA and the GMs and tell them to put a cap on rookie salaries. This is getting out of hand.
Someone needs to contact the NFLPA and the GMs and tell them to put a cap on rookie salaries. This is getting out of hand.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
It's still too much.Frak The Jags said:
Other teams would never work with the Texans again since the 1st pick usually sets the bar for other draftees in the trickle-down effect.
Texans86
Rookie
It's amazing how money can have an effect on people. To me, this makes Bush look greedy, and selfish. He may not be those things, and it might be his agent wants a slightly larger number, but it makes the player look bad publicly when he seems to have a big head.
I am definately beginning to question my own judgement on him, and reverting back to my trade down ideas.
I am definately beginning to question my own judgement on him, and reverting back to my trade down ideas.
The Dude Abides
Veteran
Does anyone know who the highest paid running back in the league is? And how much did he get in guaranteed money
I imagine Segal has an equation worked out taking into account potential endorsements in NY vs. TX and NY income tax. Unfortunately, even at equilibrium the advantage goes to NY, as Segal gets a bigger cut from endorsements. Thus, if we want Bush, we pay his price. Bush would be content to take less salary in NY if he could make it up elsewhere, and his agent might steer him in this direction. We might be looking at #4 and #29, hoping the QB's go 2-3.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I have never been part of a negotiation in the NFL, but it would be interesting to find out if Segal did any homework at all on the Texans Cap projection 5 years out. Morever, there is really no substance in the article. The bonus itself can rear itself in many forms signing, roster, etc., therefore it can be meted out many different ways. I seriously doubt that he would say 30 million and not have a plan behind it.
This appears to be more of a plant than substance.
This appears to be more of a plant than substance.
nflnutswife
Veteran
His asking price has been circulating for awhile, so is it a possibility that we take Bush and he becomes a hold out for money?
What happens then?
What happens then?
Johnny Utah
Rookie
Dr. Toro said:
It will take more than NY's #4 and #29 to move up to #1. According to the Draft Pick Value Chart
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm
It would take NY's #4 + #29 + #35 to get our pick.
The Dude Abides
Veteran
Yeah, 30 million would be quite a stretch then for a running back.Dr. Toro said:
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Thank you for the capology. I really apreciate it. So , what's an every down back like Sean Alexander, Larry Johnson or Stevie Jackson worth ? Inquiring minds wanna know ? gotta link anyone ?infantrycak said:
SA & LT money is fine for them....they have earned it. RB wanting that type of money is ridiculous!
People talk about these greedy college kids, who did not make much money in college unless they played for a BCS Conf school. I remember a lot of people saying Ricky Williams was crazy for his contract. Well his decision/explanation made sense: His signning bonus was for what he did in college....the base salary was a low number for anyone, but his incentive laden contract paid him based on how well he actually did at the end of the year...not how well he might do.
And most said he was crazy.....maybe he was just realistic. Hell, he might have had enough with the NFL and all of the BS, which is why he turned to the lettuce. I don't blame the guy.....sometimes your virtues make more sense than your checking acct!
People talk about these greedy college kids, who did not make much money in college unless they played for a BCS Conf school. I remember a lot of people saying Ricky Williams was crazy for his contract. Well his decision/explanation made sense: His signning bonus was for what he did in college....the base salary was a low number for anyone, but his incentive laden contract paid him based on how well he actually did at the end of the year...not how well he might do.
And most said he was crazy.....maybe he was just realistic. Hell, he might have had enough with the NFL and all of the BS, which is why he turned to the lettuce. I don't blame the guy.....sometimes your virtues make more sense than your checking acct!
hollywood_texan
All Pro
The Dude Abides said:
I believe Alexander got $62 million over eight years, but I seriously doubt he will be playing as a running back under that contract for 8 years.
It looks like Bush will get the type money that James and Alexander tried to get for the past two years, and they are proven vets.
I understand the bump from last year's #1 and the once in a generation hype, but there comes a point where it doesn't make sense with regard to the cap in the next year or so. Also, we need to keep mind the CBA agreement which increased the cap so there is even more money available.
Be assurred, if Reggie gets his big contract, Andre Johnson will want a new contract sooner, rather than later. Why would he want to wait for his raise at the end of his contract term? He could get injured or production could just drop off.
The ripple effects of this type of contract could be disastorious if they are not planned out and managed correctly.
Texans86
Rookie
MikeMc said:
I agree on all accounts. I wish (hopelessly and fruitlessly) that the NFL would change from guaranteed cash to incentive laden for rookies. It makes so much more sense for the teams.
Basically, I would not pay an unproven rookie twice what Shawn Alexander, who (just to recap) now owns the single season Rushing TD record, lead the league in yards, came in second in leading the league in yards two years ago (by one yard), and went to the Super Bowl. LT is a proven probowler, and he showed humility by staying with the lowly Chargers when they were bad, when he could have waited and gotten a big paycheck in FA + more in Advertisements from a bigger market.
I'm sorry Reggie, but you're not worth it. Have fun in NO.
texansfaninla
Waterboy
Reggie Bush's agent:
"For my client to be the top pick in the NFL draft, we'll take nothing less than ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS!"
Actually, jokes aside, if Alex Smith got $24 million guaranteed as the non-consensus top pick, I don't have a problem with Reggie Bush seeking more. Of course the $30 million number first thrown out is intentionally high to get the negotiation down in the $26M-$27M range. And as for a hefty sum for a running back - he is the top pick, and those contracts for the top picks seemingly grow every year. It's the nature of the beast. It's why there are such things as PSLs and $5 beers. Is it a boatload of money, and an overpayment for a player? Yes - Alex Smith should not be making more than, say, Ben Roethlisberger. But it is what it is.
"For my client to be the top pick in the NFL draft, we'll take nothing less than ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS!"
Actually, jokes aside, if Alex Smith got $24 million guaranteed as the non-consensus top pick, I don't have a problem with Reggie Bush seeking more. Of course the $30 million number first thrown out is intentionally high to get the negotiation down in the $26M-$27M range. And as for a hefty sum for a running back - he is the top pick, and those contracts for the top picks seemingly grow every year. It's the nature of the beast. It's why there are such things as PSLs and $5 beers. Is it a boatload of money, and an overpayment for a player? Yes - Alex Smith should not be making more than, say, Ben Roethlisberger. But it is what it is.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
threetoedpete said:
Here is a summary of some RB's:
Link
Anybody who hasn't seen the fact that RB specifically, but more importantly anyone who is #1 wants and gets more money than the #1 money from the year before, i.e. becomes the highest paid rookie ever (oh my god, shocking) has been fooling themselves. Take Ferguson number one and he is going to expect and get more than the $15 mil signing bonus deal Orlando Pace got. Draft Williams and he will get more money than Peppers or Strahan. That's the way it goes.
El Amigo Invisible
Rookie
If this guy is going to be good at the pro level, he needs to go play with a decent team or atleast a decent O line.
I'd pay him... heck, he's a once in a lifetime athlete.
The man wants $30mill guaranteed, I'd give it to him.
over 10 years.
The man wants $30mill guaranteed, I'd give it to him.
over 10 years.
Tale Gator
________
For that much I think the Texans will have to pass.
infantrycak said:
except this "change-of-pace" running back/slot reciever wants more money than a QB.......
What did LT get?? I'd start there.
Porky
Hall of Fame
kastofsna said:
I was actually thinking of Dr. Evil when I threw out the 10 billion dollars. LOL.
Anyway, I understand the point, but then it's a matter of what I might find reasonable and you might could potentially be different things. I might think that a new Lexus shouldn't be selling for 60k. I will offer you 30k take it or leave it. No car is worth 60k imo so it's 30k or no deal. OTOH, you as the dealer might think this car is so good, that 60k is a bargain. You insist that I pay not only the sticker price of 60k, but an extra 20k surcharge because this particular Lexus is a once in a lifetime Lexus, and has gold trim, a hot new stereo system. Besides, there is another customer waiting in the showroom from New Orleans who says that he will at least give me a 10K premium over sticker price.
Well, now my choice is do I go down to the BMW dealer which is just a tad lower rated car, but for less money(M Williams), pay the 20K premium (Bush's current offer), try to knock that back down to sticker and buy it (negioiate further with Bush), or buy it and immediately trade it for the BMW?
QB's get paid a premium because they touch the ball on every play - they are the poster boy for the franchise. You never hear this said "Franchise RB".... do you?
Don't kid yourselves....if RBush is drafted by the Texans and paid $30mm, he will not be used in the return game (Texans have a Pro-Bowl Returner already), and he will slowly be used in the passing game. Why pay someone that much (guaranteed) only to have them injured most of the time? Look at Ced Benson....perfect example!
If RBush wants to add 10% to the top RB chosen last year (among top 5 picks), then I do not feel bad with that tactic.....but to be as ignorant as this to demand QB money, leads me to believe he is not the guy the Texans should draft....I can see negotiations being a problem from day one. And we all know that rookies not in camp from Day1 do not have the success as those that are in camp. Proven fact!
As for Williams wanting Peppers money....not a problem....Top 5 pick at DE....use a comparable salary breakdown, plus a slight premium for 4 years past. And there you have it.
I'm tired of these millionaires arguing of millions with billionaire owners. Egos get in the way. Why do they not realize that even if they were paid "only" $5mm over 5 years, they'd be set for life! They could still buy their moms a house, a car, a top "baller" ride, a fresh crib for themselves.....and put a sound amount of money in investments. And when they were done with their career...move into broadcasting, sports radio, scouting, or some other 6-figure salary to keep them accustomed to the living they had as a pro.
Meanwhile most football fans would kill to have a 6-figure job and a car that ran, a home with few problems, all while not having to pay $200 a game to watch his team play.
Professional athletes....LMAO! Now that's an oxymoron! Nothing professional about 75% of today's pro-athletes!
Don't kid yourselves....if RBush is drafted by the Texans and paid $30mm, he will not be used in the return game (Texans have a Pro-Bowl Returner already), and he will slowly be used in the passing game. Why pay someone that much (guaranteed) only to have them injured most of the time? Look at Ced Benson....perfect example!
If RBush wants to add 10% to the top RB chosen last year (among top 5 picks), then I do not feel bad with that tactic.....but to be as ignorant as this to demand QB money, leads me to believe he is not the guy the Texans should draft....I can see negotiations being a problem from day one. And we all know that rookies not in camp from Day1 do not have the success as those that are in camp. Proven fact!
As for Williams wanting Peppers money....not a problem....Top 5 pick at DE....use a comparable salary breakdown, plus a slight premium for 4 years past. And there you have it.
I'm tired of these millionaires arguing of millions with billionaire owners. Egos get in the way. Why do they not realize that even if they were paid "only" $5mm over 5 years, they'd be set for life! They could still buy their moms a house, a car, a top "baller" ride, a fresh crib for themselves.....and put a sound amount of money in investments. And when they were done with their career...move into broadcasting, sports radio, scouting, or some other 6-figure salary to keep them accustomed to the living they had as a pro.
Meanwhile most football fans would kill to have a 6-figure job and a car that ran, a home with few problems, all while not having to pay $200 a game to watch his team play.
Professional athletes....LMAO! Now that's an oxymoron! Nothing professional about 75% of today's pro-athletes!
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
uhhh just draft bush.Porky said:I was actually thinking of Dr. Evil when I threw out the 10 billion dollars. LOL.
Anyway, I understand the point, but then it's a matter of what I might find reasonable and you might could potentially be different things. I might think that a new Lexus shouldn't be selling for 60k. I will offer you 30k take it or leave it. No car is worth 60k imo so it's 30k or no deal. OTOH, you as the dealer might think this car is so good, that 60k is a bargain. You insist that I pay not only the sticker price of 60k, but an extra 20k surcharge because this particular Lexus is a once in a lifetime Lexus, and has gold trim, a hot new stereo system. Besides, there is another customer waiting in the showroom from New Orleans who says that he will at least give me a 10K premium over sticker price.
Well, now my choice is do I go down to the BMW dealer which is just a tad lower rated car, but for less money(M Williams), pay the 20K premium (Bush's current offer), try to knock that back down to sticker and buy it (negioiate further with Bush), or buy it and immediately trade it for the BMW?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
texansfaninla said:
kcwilson
Rookie
Silver Lining:
When Reggie comes to the Texans at $30M, what does that tell us from a negotiation standpoint? Exactly. Reggie wants to go to NYJets and probably sees that as a better career path due to Madison Avenue. I don't blame him, it is where he can maximize his exposure.
From our standpoint, it means that we may have some bargaining power to trade down with the Jets because they can pretend that they went to USC to talk to Leinart and then "Oh, hey, Reggie Bush is here. Wow, darn the luck. Say reggie, why don't you suit up for us and work out. boy won't that be fun."
I think the Jets know between Saints and Tenn, that Leinart is off the board at their slot and they used the ploy of visiting Leinart to see Reggie again. They have Ramsey to back up Pennington and would love Reggie to take over for Curtis and be the NYC poster child competitive to Eli and the Giants.
Jets are trying to be coy, but the hook is in their mouth.
When Reggie comes to the Texans at $30M, what does that tell us from a negotiation standpoint? Exactly. Reggie wants to go to NYJets and probably sees that as a better career path due to Madison Avenue. I don't blame him, it is where he can maximize his exposure.
From our standpoint, it means that we may have some bargaining power to trade down with the Jets because they can pretend that they went to USC to talk to Leinart and then "Oh, hey, Reggie Bush is here. Wow, darn the luck. Say reggie, why don't you suit up for us and work out. boy won't that be fun."
I think the Jets know between Saints and Tenn, that Leinart is off the board at their slot and they used the ploy of visiting Leinart to see Reggie again. They have Ramsey to back up Pennington and would love Reggie to take over for Curtis and be the NYC poster child competitive to Eli and the Giants.
Jets are trying to be coy, but the hook is in their mouth.