Career Numbers on RB/VY Take a LOOK...

Reggie Bush Career Stats
Games Played 39
RUSHING ATT 433 YRDS 3312 LOSS 143 NET 3169 TD 25 AVG 7.32
PASSING ATT 3 COMP 1 YRDS 52 TD 1 INT 0
Two Point Conv 0
Receiving NO 95 YDS 1301 TD 13 AVG 13.69474
Punt Returns No 44 559 TD 3 AVG 12.70455
Kick off Returns NO 67 YDS 1522 TD 1 AVG 22.71642
CAREER TOTAL TD 43 POINTS 258

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2005&org=657&player=5

Vince Young Career Totals
Games Played 37
RUSHING ATT 457 YRDS 3448 LOSS 321 NET 3127 TD 37 AVG 6.84
PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28
Two Point Conv 2
Receiving NO 1 YDS 48 TD 0
CAREER TOTAL TD 81 POINTS 488

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2005&org=703&player=10


Who is your #1 now that you can see the total career numbers!
I though Bush was a TD freak on Special Teams????? ONLY 4 TD's total???
Bush has a career Yard Per Carry higher at 7.32 VY 6.84
WOW I was a for sure gunner for Reggie Bush, I think this has me questioning the choice. I think Reggie Looked awsome, is the man more hype than truth??

...........Yawn...

It is obvious that the realization we are taking Bush hasn't sunk in for some fans. Compare all you want. It won't alter the outcome.

NOTE: I am Bias towards the #1 pick, I just found this mind blowing! And Vince played two fewer games as well!! Really odd in my opinion how the media makes things look in comparison to fact's!

I wonder if the non-bias scouts look at these numbers. I mean alot of people make comments based on either their hate towards Reggie or their hate towards Vince. If you are a bias thrid party, the numbers speak a different language than what the media prevails. There are alot of comments like, Bush average Yards per carry is what makes him special, Vince Youngs is higher. Vince is super sccurate, he had 28 INT. Just food for thought!

FYI--3127 yds in 457 attempts is 6.84 ypc not 7.55. Whoever did the ypc calculation used net yards for Bush and gross yards for Young--not exactly apples to apples.

You also cannot just look at ypc on a QB and RB and conclude who is a better runner. The running is done at different times. By that standard, David Carr was a better rusher than every starting RB in the NFL last year since none averaged more than his 5.5 ypc. The comparison is simply spurious.

BigDave350 said:

Reggie Bush Career Stats
Games Played 39
RUSHING ATT 433 YRDS 3312 LOSS 143 NET 3169 TD 25 AVG 7.32
PASSING ATT 3 COMP 1 YRDS 52 TD 1 INT 0
Two Point Conv 0
Receiving NO 95 YDS 1301 TD 13 AVG 13.69474
Punt Returns No 44 559 TD 3 AVG 12.70455
Kick off Returns NO 67 YDS 1522 TD 1 AVG 22.71642
CAREER TOTAL TD 43 POINTS 258

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2005&org=657&player=5

Vince Young Career Totals
Games Played 37
RUSHING ATT 457 YRDS 3448 LOSS 321 NET 3127 TD 37 AVG 7.55
PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28
Two Point Conv 2
Receiving NO 1 YDS 48 TD 0
CAREER TOTAL TD 81 POINTS 488

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2005&org=703&player=10


Who is your #1 now that you can see the total career numbers!
I though Bush was a TD freak on Special Teams????? ONLY 4 TD's total???
I also thought Bush had a higher Yards Per Carry than VY??? VY 7.55 RB 7.32
WOW I was a for sure gunner for Reggie Bush, I think this has me questioning the choice. I think Reggie Looked awsome, is the man more hype than truth??

Click to expand...

2006 is a scary good draft. Arguably, last year, both Young and Bush had performances that could easily rank among the best years ever for a college athlete AS JUNIORS.

See e.g.: Link: ESPN pg2 Best individual college football seasons

And you have Mario (measurables compared to Peppers), D'Brick and any number of guys that could be pretty dang good.

And you say "Only 4TDs?" Do you want him to walk on water too? After a while a great returner will stop getting challenged because they know what he can do and they will kick away.

We are gonna get a remarkable player. McNair has expressed an interest in a player that means we win faster. It is looking like that translates into a show of support for Carr and getting Bush.

You might be sad that VY is not likely to be a Texans player, but Reggie ain't chopped liver. We are not gonna be settling.

Stat lines don't define either of these players.

In regards to VY and his rushing avgerage, QB's should have a high ypc average because the defense is so spread out when they take off. You know who had the highest YPC for the Texans last year? David Carr at 5.5 YPC.

BigDave350 said:

Reggie Bush Career Stats
Games Played 39
RUSHING ATT 433 YRDS 3312 LOSS 143 NET 3169 TD 25 AVG 7.32
PASSING ATT 3 COMP 1 YRDS 52 TD 1 INT 0
Two Point Conv 0
Receiving NO 95 YDS 1301 TD 13 AVG 13.69474
Punt Returns No 44 559 TD 3 AVG 12.70455
Kick off Returns NO 67 YDS 1522 TD 1 AVG 22.71642
CAREER TOTAL TD 43 POINTS 258

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2005&org=657&player=5

Vince Young Career Totals
Games Played 37
RUSHING ATT 457 YRDS 3448 LOSS 321 NET 3127 TD 37 AVG 7.55
PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28
Two Point Conv 2
Receiving NO 1 YDS 48 TD 0
CAREER TOTAL TD 81 POINTS 488

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2005&org=703&player=10


Who is your #1 now that you can see the total career numbers!
I though Bush was a TD freak on Special Teams????? ONLY 4 TD's total???
I also thought Bush had a higher Yards Per Carry than VY??? VY 7.55 RB 7.32
WOW I was a for sure gunner for Reggie Bush, I think this has me questioning the choice. I think Reggie Looked awsome, is the man more hype than truth??

Click to expand...

Give it up, it's BUSH. The cards have been played.

WOW, VY was the better college player. But who owns a Heisman?

You can scrap those rushing yards for Young though, no way he runs like that against bigger and faster LB's and safteys. Esspecially at a 4.57.

infantrycak said:

FYI--3127 yds in 457 attempts is 6.84 ypc not 7.55. Whoever did the ypc calculation used net yards for Bush and gross yards for Young--not exactly apples to apples.

You also cannot just look at ypc on a QB and RB and conclude who is a better runner. The running is done at different times. By that standard, David Carr was a better rusher than every starting RB in the NFL last year since none averaged more than his 5.5 ypc. The comparison is simply spurious.

Click to expand...

3127, where did you get that number???? OHHH I made a mistake, my bad, you are right 6.84

The shotgun and ad-lib rushing play won't exist in the NFL so you can take Young's #s and flush them.

BigDave350 said:

3127, where did you get that number???? OHHH I made a mistake, my bad, you are right 6.84

Click to expand...

A little further along the stat line in your original post:

RUSHING ATT 457 YRDS 3448 LOSS 321 NET 3127 TD 37 AVG 7.55

Click to expand...

If you do the calculations you can see whoever did the calculation used gross yards on Young and net yards on Bush. Either way one should be used for both--I gave you the net since it is the more conventional measure.

Young gross ypc 7.55, net ypc 6.84
Bush gross ypc 7.64, net ypc 7.32

Italics being the original comparison. As you can see, Bush actually averaged higher in any apples to apples comparison.

The correction have been maid!

wags said:

Stat lines don't define either of these players.

In regards to VY and his rushing avgerage, QB's should have a high ypc average because the defense is so spread out when they take off. You know who had the highest YPC for the Texans last year? David Carr at 5.5 YPC.

Click to expand...

If you look at Carr's YPC in college, they were dinky.

93 rushes for 74 yards, .8 av yards per attempt, 5 rushing TDs in his final season.

David Carr has better than average wheels for a QB, but he does better when he stays in the pocket.

If Carr had 5.5 YPC after the anemic running he did in college, what would a Young be able to do, whose college stats are beyond comprehension?

I know people like to denigrate Young, partially because of the ardor of some of the pro-Young posters, (and maybe partly to make themselves feel a little better that he isn't coming here or is gonna go to a competitor), but if I were a betting person, looking at VY's stats and play, I wouldn't bet against him succeeding on the next level.

I just don't understand why people have to be ugly on this subject. It is funny to me because folks accuse us women folks about being all emotional about stuff, but the whole VY/Bush rhetoric is beyond hysterics.

And defenses don't expect Carr to run. He can't beat them running. defenses will be expecting Young to run, will he have some success, sure. But if Michael Vick struggles to scramble while running a sub 4.4, how will young do if he runs the same speed as most LB's?

The numbers prove that they are going to both be better at the next level! I just wanted to bring to life actuall facts based on performance of these two players. Agruments have been maid about their ability, I just found if funny that stats show a much more productive player out of Young, and the hype of Reggie Bush as this super special teams player is bogus! hE IS A GOOD special teamer but Mathis is way more of a threat!

Texans_Chick said:

If you look at Carr's YPC in college, they were dinky.

93 rushes for 74 yards, .8 av yards per attempt, 5 rushing TDs in his final season.

David Carr has better than average wheels for a QB, but he does better when he stays in the pocket.

If Carr had 5.5 YPC after the anemic running he did in college, what would a Young be able to do, whose college stats are beyond comprehension?

I know people like to denigrate Young, partially because of the ardor of some of the pro-Young posters, (and maybe partly to make themselves feel a little better that he isn't coming here or is gonna go to a competitor), but if I were a betting person, looking at VY's stats and play, I wouldn't bet against him succeeding on the next level.

I just don't understand why people have to be ugly on this subject. It is funny to me because folks accuse us women folks about being all emotional about stuff, but the whole VY/Bush rhetoric is beyond hysterics.

Click to expand...

I wasn't knocking Young or comparing him to Carr. Just pointing out that QB's who scramble should have a high YPC.

But they are two differant animals. With Young, running will be a focus of defenses, with Carr it isn't. If D's focused on Carr running, it would be closer to the college YPC.

Texans_Chick said:

If Carr had 5.5 YPC after the anemic running he did in college, what would a Young be able to do, whose college stats are beyond comprehension?

I know people like to denigrate Young, partially because of the ardor of some of the pro-Young posters,

Click to expand...

There is nothing denigrating in what wags or I was observing. It is a simple fact that there is a difference between running as a RB and running as a QB. There is no relation between ypc for Young and for Bush just like there isn't for Carr and DD. Guaranteed you line up Carr and Young as RB's and they won't have the same ypc.

As for the Carr .8 ypc in college vs. 5.5 ypc in the pros you have a classic case of having to look beyond the stats. Carr had decent to good protection in college and no designed run plays. Folks have been very surprised at his mobility in the NFL because he didn't have to display it in college, but he still isn't such a rushing threat that teams are game planning against his rushing. The situation isn't the same for Young where he has had all sorts of designed running plays, option plays and has been game planned against as a rusher. There just isn't any realistic connection between .8 is to 5.5 so 6.8 is to 40 ypc.

wags said:

I wasn't knocking Young or comparing him to Carr. Just pointing out that QB's who scramble should have a high YPC.

Click to expand...

Apologies. I should have done my Carr/VY observation in a different post than my general observation about the vehement stuff that is flung back and forth as it relates to VY/Bush.

BigDave350 said:

Reggie Bush Career Stats
PASSING ATT 3 COMP 1 YRDS 52 TD 1 INT 0

Vince Young Career Totals

PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28

Click to expand...

Wow I didn't know Reggie was such a good passer! Touchdown pass 33% of the time he threw the ball!??? It was a 52 yard avg. on the touch too! He is definitely not a short yardage guy! That just makes the pick real easy. Young was closer to 5% TD per attempt with all day to throw and actual training to be a QB.

KSig44 said:

And defenses don't expect Carr to run. He can't beat them running. defenses will be expecting Young to run, will he have some success, sure. But if Michael Vick struggles to scramble while running a sub 4.4, how will young do if he runs the same speed as most LB's?

Click to expand...

Just statistically, Young in college was a more accurate thrower than Vick was and had more YPC and more total yards.

At least in college, when teams played the run, he threw. When they played the throw, he ran.

Though VY is not as fast as Vick, he is bigger and harder to bring down. The way he runs makes it difficult to figure out tackle angles.

People who characterize VY as merely a running QB or a taller bigger Vick, I think are missing the boat.

infantrycak said:

As for the Carr .8 ypc in college vs. 5.5 ypc in the pros you have a classic case of having to look beyond the stats. Carr had decent to good protection in college and no designed run plays. Folks have been very surprised at his mobility in the NFL because he didn't have to display it in college, but he still isn't such a rushing threat that teams are game planning against his rushing. The situation isn't the same for Young where he has had all sorts of designed running plays, option plays and has been game planned against as a rusher. There just isn't any realistic connection between .8 is to 5.5 so 6.8 is to 40 ypc.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but it does make you ponder, just as a different way of looking at things.

With his ability as a passer and a runner, it does make you wonder what is possible for VY as a QB. Even when you compare him to good running QBs, his stats make other college QBs stats look anemic. There are no good college QB comparison's to VY, so it is hard to figure out how he might turn out.

Are we? I don't blame VY totally for this, it falls on Mack Brown to. VY will not get to run his improisational shotgun offense in the NFL, he will be under center. And the LB's are bigger and faster in the NFL than college. Brown comprimised VY's development to help the team win, can't really blame him for that, but it would have helped the arguments we are having if VY ran a bit more standardized and traditional offenses than one of his own. I for one do think he will be a Vivk type with less speed. He did have success in college passing, but it was primarily to RB's and the TE. When he did throw to WR's with any consistency, it was against lesser talent. Can VY succeed in the NFL, sure he can. But he will have to do like McNair did and sit and watch and learn for a few years and fight his instincts and take off past the line of scrimage at the first signs of trouble.

KSig44 said:

Are we? I don't blame VY totally for this, it falls on Mack Brown to. VY will not get to run his improisational shotgun offense in the NFL, he will be under center. And the LB's are bigger and faster in the NFL than college. Brown comprimised VY's development to help the team win, can't really blame him for that, but it would have helped the arguments we are having if VY ran a bit more standardized and traditional offenses than one of his own. I for one do think he will be a Vivk type with less speed. He did have success in college passing, but it was primarily to RB's and the TE. When he did throw to WR's with any consistency, it was against lesser talent. Can VY succeed in the NFL, sure he can. But he will have to do like McNair did and sit and watch and learn for a few years and fight his instincts and take off past the line of scrimage at the first signs of trouble.

Click to expand...

I guess USC was lesser talent: Rose Bowl Stats It didn't look like the WR stats were particularly anemic.

They might not have had the highest ranked defense, but USC was ranked #1 in turnovers gained and turnover margin.

I really do not get the comparison between VY and Mike Vick. They appear to be very different players.

Vince Young (last college season), Drafted ???? 6’ 5” 230 lbs

3036 passing yards
65.2 completion percentage
325 attempts for 212 completions, 9.3 av yards per attempt
26 passing TDs with 10 INTs
155 rushes for 1050 yards, 6.8 av yards per attempt, 12 rushing TDs

Mike Vick (last college season), Drafted 1st, 6’0”, 214 lbs

1439 passing yards
54.19 completion percentage
179 attempts for 97 completions, 8.0 av yards per attempt
9 passing TDs with 7 INTs
113 rushes for 636 yards, 5.6 av yards per attempt, 9 rushing TDs


Vince is slower but had more yards.

I think that Vince is way ahead of where McNair was at the same stage of development. He has certainly seen more complex defenses and harder competition.

The truth about this matter is that Vince had better numbers as a rusher than Bush did, and bush was a RB on a team with a Heisman Trophy QB and another first round running back. Vince created his numbers, and dominated opposing defenses with his Arm and Legs. It took Matt Leinart, and Lendale White to make Reggie what he was. Matt kept the safteys/corners in check, White wore down the linebackers, and all of thier work made Bush so effective to bounce the ball outside. Teams did not single handedly focus on Bush as they did with Young in fear of the deep ball by Leinart. The thing with Young is his passing was so great that the teams focusing on the run were picked apart in the passing game, and teams who tried to balance their defense to compensate for Youngs arm were destroyed with his running capabilities. Young will be more of a threat for opposing defenses than Reggie Bush do to the fact that he is harder to tackle, tough enough to have the ball in his hands every play, and he is Bushes equal in openfield running capability ( ie juking, and play faking). Which is better, having a guy who scares a defense every play of offense, or having Bush who will be scary for 17 plays a game.

In terms of Numbers, who helped their team more, Reggie or Vince? USC would be in the National Championship with or without Reggie, look towards previous years when he was a smaller factor in the scheme of things. Texas with out Vince would not have played in the BIG VII Championship Game!

Texans_Chick said:

Yeah, but it does make you ponder, just as a different way of looking at things.

With his ability as a passer and a runner, it does make you wonder what is possible for VY as a QB. Even when you compare him to good running QBs, his stats make other college QBs stats look anemic. There are no good college QB comparison's to VY, so it is hard to figure out how he might turn out.

Click to expand...

One of the stranger things I've found about the VY/RB debate, is that the matchup problems Vince will create is underplayed, while the match up problems Reggie will create are overstated.......

It is all media hype on Bush. Young has Ran better as a QB than Reggie as a Running Back, how sad is that! Don't get me wrong, Bush is great, a true gammer, but his stats do not measure up to the madness that is hyped about him! Looking at the numbers, I would say Vince has got the shaft from the media. They have been out to get the guy since day one. If you were to show these numbers I have posted on ESPN in front of the world, there would not even be a debate Vince being better than Bush, the numbers would say it all.

infantrycak said:

Blah, blah, blah....David Carr was a better rusher than every starting RB in the NFL last year....blah, blah, blah.

Click to expand...

See, David rocks!

HJam72 said:

See, David rocks!

Click to expand...

Seriously. If you follow the non-logic/wilfull disregard of some folks in this thread the greatest single mistake of the ousted coaching staff was not designing rushing plays for Carr and going to an offense like VY ran since Carr is the greatest rusher in the NFL other than Vick---the ypc prove it.

Texans_Chick said:

Just statistically, Young in college was a more accurate thrower than Vick was...

Click to expand...

Vick's redshirt soph season was marred by a high ankle sprain suffered in mid-season. That affected Mike's stats as a runner and a passer. During his freshman season, Vick led the nation in passing efficiency with a 180.37 QB rating. Vick was more of a downfield passer than Young, as his average completion went for over 20 yards. I don't think Vince would be considered as accurate if he had thrown downfield as often as Mike. As a pro, Vick is stifled in a short passing, ball control offense that is more suited for someone like...well, like Vince.

I agree with pretty much everything you said about Vince as a runner. He's great. It should also be noted that in the NCAA, sacks count against a player's rushing totals. Don't know why. That's why Carr's college totals are low compared to what he's shown as a pro.

You guys have it wrong as far as Bush is concerned. Vince has good stats playing behind such a big line and being a good athlete.( he will not have as great an advantage in the pros. Reggie on the other hand was competing for time on a team with alot of stars. Good for the team, Bad for stats. Their was no waiting for white to tire out the defenses . Reggie broke off runs early and often his junior year and as the competition was better so were his stats. Texas focused on stopping him and made white look unstoppable. fact is Reggie competed for his stats on a good TEAM and Vince was the Major part of his teams offense, which was designed just for his talents and that of a great line and D. If teams focus on Reggie their will be yards for DD,AJ and Moulds. If they play it straight up Bush will make them pay.

I don't want to hear another post about Vince Young being "a better RB" than Reggie, and I CERTAINLY do not want to hear that "Vince Young did the job of Leinart, Bush and White all at the same time". It is a COMPLETELY different ANIMAL when you are dealing with a QB who can run as opposed to a RB. Do NOT bring that topic up again... it is uncomparable.

The fact is that by the end of Reggie's junior year, the hype was all on him. Vince Young was still a "who is that??", but Reggie took the stage long before the Rose Bowl. Defenses did everything they could to counteract him. When it is a QB, there is NO ONE who is set man-to-man with him unless they have a spy behind the line who acts both as QB contain and coverage. There is nothing more they can do in the NFL. That approach works fine to shut down Mike Vick, who you stated was a better runner that Vince is. So what does that mean?

Yes, it means that someone will be pulled off of a full zone coverage just to babysit Vince for the whole game. But what if Vince doesnt have his O-line anymore? What if he had an O-line that had no intentions of letting him break a 12 yard dash on every play? He would be forced to stay in the pocket.... which makes him less useful than Matt Leinart. Next year defenses will be taking away both Vince's running ability and his confidence. Leinart will go through the League as an above-average QB who never did anything unpredictable but was always reliable. How can you rely on someone who wants to play the entire game of football by himself? You can't.

The fact is, his abilities will be his downfall. He will end up being a Mike Vick (Overall rating of 73, and will be desperate this year to bring it up to a more respectable level if he wants to wear the Falcon helmet again in '07). Vince threw for more yards, but he wasnt injured like Mike was in college. Don't even make me get into the argument about how injury prone Vince will be in the NFL. All I have to say is.... one of the times that he tries to break a run and he doesnt notice an NFL LB closing on him fast, it will be his last game. He may be a big boy but he has never been a RB before, he has no idea what it feels like to take the hits.

Truth be told, I like the guys talent. Remember, my post is based on the idea of if Vince Young comes to the Texans, not any other team. If he goes to the Raiders, he may be able to generate huge numbers both with his feet and his hands. But not here. The O-line we have is not strong enough yet to support his habits. Maybe Todd Wade will go to the Raiders to help Vince.

Did I miss something? Since when is Reggie Bush a QB? How can we compare a QB to a RB, it makes no sense. Yes, they are two offensive players, but one throws the ball and one catches the ball. Of course Vince is going to have more yards and touchdowns because he is throwing to multiple targets while Reggie is one of a few targets for Matt Leinart.

I would certainly hope that a QB has more TDs than a RB, this stat comparison does not prove anything of who will be the better NFL player or who is the better fit for our team.

This is getting funny, how can you compare college stats from a running back and a quarterback and use that as a determining factor to as who you should pick #1 overall to play in the NFL...

Maybe we should draft Mario Williams because he has more sacks than Vince and Reggie combined.

What a freak!!!!!

TexansLucky13 said:

I don't want to hear another post about Vince Young being "a better RB" than Reggie, and I CERTAINLY do not want to hear that "Vince Young did the job of Leinart, Bush and White all at the same time". It is a COMPLETELY different ANIMAL when you are dealing with a QB who can run as opposed to a RB. Do NOT bring that topic up again... it is uncomparable.

The fact is that by the end of Reggie's junior year, the hype was all on him. Vince Young was still a "who is that??", but Reggie took the stage long before the Rose Bowl. Defenses did everything they could to counteract him. When it is a QB, there is NO ONE who is set man-to-man with him unless they have a spy behind the line who acts both as QB contain and coverage. There is nothing more they can do in the NFL. That approach works fine to shut down Mike Vick, who you stated was a better runner that Vince is. So what does that mean?

Yes, it means that someone will be pulled off of a full zone coverage just to babysit Vince for the whole game. But what if Vince doesnt have his O-line anymore? What if he had an O-line that had no intentions of letting him break a 12 yard dash on every play? He would be forced to stay in the pocket.... which makes him less useful than Matt Leinart. Next year defenses will be taking away both Vince's running ability and his confidence. Leinart will go through the League as an above-average QB who never did anything unpredictable but was always reliable. How can you rely on someone who wants to play the entire game of football by himself? You can't.

The fact is, his abilities will be his downfall. He will end up being a Mike Vick (Overall rating of 73, and will be desperate this year to bring it up to a more respectable level if he wants to wear the Falcon helmet again in '07). Vince threw for more yards, but he wasnt injured like Mike was in college. Don't even make me get into the argument about how injury prone Vince will be in the NFL. All I have to say is.... one of the times that he tries to break a run and he doesnt notice an NFL LB closing on him fast, it will be his last game. He may be a big boy but he has never been a RB before, he has no idea what it feels like to take the hits.

Truth be told, I like the guys talent. Remember, my post is based on the idea of if Vince Young comes to the Texans, not any other team. If he goes to the Raiders, he may be able to generate huge numbers both with his feet and his hands. But not here. The O-line we have is not strong enough yet to support his habits. Maybe Todd Wade will go to the Raiders to help Vince.

Click to expand...

So they invited him to new york as a finalist for the heisman....you know, BEFORE the rose bowl because he was a "who is that?" Stop rewriting history.

I think you could maybe say that about both players last season (soph seasons) before the bowl games

infantrycak said:

There is nothing denigrating in what wags or I was observing. It is a simple fact that there is a difference between running as a RB and running as a QB. There is no relation between ypc for Young and for Bush just like there isn't for Carr and DD. Guaranteed you line up Carr and Young as RB's and they won't have the same ypc.

As for the Carr .8 ypc in college vs. 5.5 ypc in the pros you have a classic case of having to look beyond the stats. Carr had decent to good protection in college and no designed run plays. Folks have been very surprised at his mobility in the NFL because he didn't have to display it in college, but he still isn't such a rushing threat that teams are game planning against his rushing. The situation isn't the same for Young where he has had all sorts of designed running plays, option plays and has been game planned against as a rusher. There just isn't any realistic connection between .8 is to 5.5 so 6.8 is to 40 ypc.

Click to expand...

The Eagles had their reasons for taking Mcnabb over Ricky Williams. We need to take the winner.

The question how can we compare a RB and QB?, that is the amazing thing about it all, there should not be any debate about it, the Running Back should have way more yards rushing than the Quarterback, It just shows how special Vince Young is. Everyone in the media is compaing Reggie to the likes of Gale Sayers, people commenting on how great he is, if he is so great then Vince mush be by far the best talent in the history of the NCAA because he is a better rusher than Reggie Bush ( stats say it is so ) and he was the best thrower comming out (stats say its so). People are in awe of Reggies Moves, his special teams play, his catching ability. I look at his stats and I have to say he was a great running back. The fact that Young put up even better numbers as a rusher, and still dominated throwing the ball, makes me understand how much the media influence has on the draft. I guess it sucks to be from Texas, sorry Vince! Oh and as far as a shotgun QB, it sure did not hurt Alex Smiths stock last year!

BigDave350 said:

The question how can we compare a RB and QB?, that is the amazing thing about it all, there should not be any debate about it, the Running Back should have way more yards rushing than the Quarterback, It just shows how special Vince Young is. Everyone in the media is compaing Reggie to the likes of Gale Sayers, people commenting on how great he is, if he is so great then Vince mush be by far the best talent in the history of the NCAA because he is a better rusher than Reggie Bush ( stats say it is so ) and he was the best thrower comming out (stats say its so). People are in awe of Reggies Moves, his special teams play, his catching ability. I look at his stats and I have to say he was a great running back. The fact that Young put up even better numbers as a rusher, and still dominated throwing the ball, makes me understand how much the media influence has on the draft. I guess it sucks to be from Texas, sorry Vince! Oh and as far as a shotgun QB, it sure did not hurt Alex Smiths stock last year!

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Reggie bulked up . Oh man i'm coniviced he will be perfect.I agree with you Dave.Poor Alex, He suck! I bet they wish Matteus came out early!

Reggie Bulked up??? What????

BigDave350 said:

Reggie Bulked up??? What????

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Not to impress. He did it because he was feeling a litte small.

BigDave350 said:

The question how can we compare a RB and QB?, that is the amazing thing about it all, there should not be any debate about it, the Running Back should have way more yards rushing than the Quarterback, It just shows how special Vince Young is. Everyone in the media is compaing Reggie to the likes of Gale Sayers, people commenting on how great he is, if he is so great then Vince mush be by far the best talent in the history of the NCAA because he is a better rusher than Reggie Bush ( stats say it is so ) and he was the best thrower comming out (stats say its so). People are in awe of Reggies Moves, his special teams play, his catching ability. I look at his stats and I have to say he was a great running back. The fact that Young put up even better numbers as a rusher, and still dominated throwing the ball, makes me understand how much the media influence has on the draft. I guess it sucks to be from Texas, sorry Vince! Oh and as far as a shotgun QB, it sure did not hurt Alex Smiths stock last year!

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Just because player A has better or more impressive stats than player B does not automatically make player A the better player, especially when you're comparing two different positions.

infantrycak said:

You also cannot just look at ypc on a QB and RB and conclude who is a better runner. The running is done at different times. By that standard, David Carr was a better rusher than every starting RB in the NFL last year since none averaged more than his 5.5 ypc. The comparison is simply spurious.

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Ordinarily, I'd agree. In cases where you're comparing 25 carries by a QB against 300 carries by a RB, the comparison would be spurious.

Here, however, when you are comparing approx the same number of carries for a RB and a runnign QB, the comparison is very apt.

The lore is that VY cannot and will not do that kind of running in the pro league.

The fact is we don't know what kind of running VY will do in the pros.

The statistics cited sure do suggest which of the two players is the bigger "difference maker" in the college game. But I think everybody already knew that. That's why people have been attacking VY since the Rose Bowl, citing time after time that what he did in college CAN'T be done in the NFL.

Tune in next year and see if the lemmings were right.

infantrycak said:

Seriously. If you follow the non-logic/wilfull disregard of some folks in this thread the greatest single mistake of the ousted coaching staff was not designing rushing plays for Carr and going to an offense like VY ran since Carr is the greatest rusher in the NFL other than Vick---the ypc prove it.

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You might feel a little bit differently next year when Carr bootlegs a lot, and on more than one occassion picks up a good 10-12 yard gain. Not exactly a designed run, but if it's there, why not? Kubiak's job is to get the most out of Carr as possible; he is athletic, he can run, he's not good enough to not use all his tools and still succeed...

I think the problem with Carr is he tends to run out of bounds behind the line of scrimage alot on boot legs. If not that he gets sacked and or throws interceptions. He only ran a 4.8 40, its not like he has this breakaway speed! LOL Vince on the other hand I can see picking up those 20 to 30 yard runs when guys are not open!