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State of the O-line

AlbertanTexan said:
Tunsil wasn't great last night either but is still learning the system. Has good feet. But shudder at what he'll cost
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Team better suck it up and get an extension done based on what they gave up to get him. Nothing would deliver a throat punch more than realizing Tunsil could become known as a 2-1-1-2 rental.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I'd give OB and Devlin's current OL 2 more starts....if nothing changes then it's time to make the changes now, for the future.

LT- Tunsil
LG- Howard
OC- Fulton
RG- Scharping
RT- Johnson

This would be a pathetic set of circumstances considering the money they decided to give Martin.

OB may be taking three tough strikes in WK1. First, the 2 TO gaffe.....not to be confused with a rookie HC mistake. Second, allowing RC to go prevent defense against Brees with 37 seconds on the clock and the Saints still in possesssion of a TO. On a side note.....why in the duck did OB decide to kick the ball into the endzone versus forcing a return to eat up some of the clock at 37 seconds left in the game? On another side note.....when has a RC defense ever made a crucial stop when the team absolutely needed it? Third, extending Martin when the team should've been looking at ways to trade him for another teams BU RT or OG.
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I say you have lost your mind if you believe that O’Brien is benching his beloved Center. I only see that happening if Martin goes down again. Other than that, no dice!
 
Mangler said:
I say you have lost your mind if you believe that O’Brien is benching his beloved Center. I only see that happening if Martin goes down again. Other than that, no dice!
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Agree that Martin will not lose his job. I think by seasons end the line will look:

LT - Tunsil
LG - Fulton
OC - Martin
RG - Scharping
RT - Howard

Besides the sack, I think Tunsil played well, no matter what PFF says...especially considering the time he has had in the offense. PFF graded Kelemete higher than any of our linemen, but the eye test says otherwise.
 
frethack said:
Agree that Martin will not lose his job. I think by seasons end the line will look:

LT - Tunsil
LG - Fulton
OC - Martin
RG - Scharping
RT - Howard

Besides the sack, I think Tunsil played well, no matter what PFF says...especially considering the time he has had in the offense. PFF graded Kelemete higher than any of our linemen, but the eye test says otherwise.
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This lineup makes a lot of sense to me !
 
frethack said:
Agree that Martin will not lose his job. I think by seasons end the line will look:

LT - Tunsil
LG - Fulton
OC - Martin
RG - Scharping
RT - Howard

Besides the sack, I think Tunsil played well, no matter what PFF says...especially considering the time he has had in the offense. PFF graded Kelemete higher than any of our linemen, but the eye test says otherwise.
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Would OB start two rookies on the right side? What about Johnson? Wonder if he’s getting starting RT reps in practice this week? Sharping news has been quiet lately. I have no problem with your OL but was just wondering if Johnson is better than any one of those five, uh four.
 
I'm going to rewatch the game tonite, but in just looking at highlights & from what i remember, What became glaringly obvious is the Saints couldn't really get home on DW4 without blitzing. But even then between DW4 scrambling, Hyde & Duke doing their thing, we were beating a good percentage of those blitzes. Off the top of my head, though a disproportionate of the blitzing and stunting came off the left side. they took advantage of Tunsil & in at least 1 case Duke's unfamiliarity with the offense having only been here for a few weeks. They also took advantage of the lack of chemistry Tunsil had with Kelemete as well.

Henderson struggled early in the game (crowd noise), but settled down & actually played pretty well. Didn't hear much from Cam Jordan after the 1st few drives which is who he faced the majority of the time.
& none of the guys really were just horrid after those 1st few drives of the game.
 
Mr teX said:
I'm going to rewatch the game tonite, but in just looking at highlights & from what i remember, What became glaringly obvious is the Saints couldn't really get home on DW4 without blitzing. But even then between DW4 scrambling, Hyde & Duke doing their thing, we were beating a good percentage of those blitzes. Off the top of my head, though a disproportionate of the blitzing and stunting came off the left side. they took advantage of Tunsil & in at least 1 case Duke's unfamiliarity with the offense having only been here for a few weeks. They also took advantage of the lack of chemistry Tunsil had with Kelemete as well.

Henderson struggled early in the game (crowd noise), but settled down & actually played pretty well. Didn't hear much from Cam Jordan after the 1st few drives which is who he faced the majority of the time.
& none of the guys really were just horrid after those 1st few drives of the game.
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Yeah, just too many late changes. Hope TH gets back Sunday. Henderson hasn’t played in almost two years so hopefully he’ll make progress. OB had good things to say about Kelly today so apparently he collaborated with OB on playcalling. Wonder if Kelly slides into the HC slot if OB ever gets replaced.
 
frethack said:
Agree that Martin will not lose his job. I think by seasons end the line will look:

LT - Tunsil
LG - Fulton
OC - Martin
RG - Scharping
RT - Howard

Besides the sack, I think Tunsil played well, no matter what PFF says...especially considering the time he has had in the offense. PFF graded Kelemete higher than any of our linemen, but the eye test says otherwise.
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Don't think it's really smart moving Howard to RT this season after taking most of his snaps this preseason at LG. Fulton is probably one of the 5 best OL'men, so I think he stays at RG. As soon as his hand is OK, I think we'll see Howard at LG. RT is the big question mark. Henderson will likely start at least for several more games to see how chemistry developes. Somewhere around mid-season would be a likely time to make a.change if called for. Sooner only if Henderson is a disaster. Martin will remain at OC unless Watson is getting too much pressure from the inside.
 
Just watched the all-22 focusing mostly on the OL. Man, Henderson is horrible. He is not the answer at RT. Martin wasn't bad but he had a lot of help most of the night. You could certainly tell they weren't gelling as a unit. TEs weren't helping early on. Not only missing blocks, but running into their own guys knocking them off their blocks.
 
Scooter said:
Don't care what he costs, at 2 firsts and a second we better ufckin pay him to be around until 2050 - because he needs to be awesome and anchor the LT island for at least that long.
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Tunsil is one of the 1sts

Stills a 2020 fourth and a 2021 6th equals a 2nd or better.

But keep up your narrative.

BTW, what did the Texans win while Kubiak was here.
 
Speedy said:
Just watched the all-22 focusing mostly on the OL. Man, Henderson is horrible. He is not the answer at RT. Martin wasn't bad but he had a lot of help most of the night. You could certainly tell they weren't gelling as a unit. TEs weren't helping early on. Not only missing blocks, but running into their own guys knocking them off their blocks.
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Henderson sucking is as predictable as Kalil sucking.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Second, allowing RC to go prevent defense against Brees with 37 seconds on the clock and the Saints still in possesssion of a TO.
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They were in man coverage and all played very tight . That's about as far from "Prevent" as you can get.

RC made the right call , Colvin blew the assignment and Brees took advantage of his mistake - like he had multiple other times throughout the game.

They also made the right call cutting Colvin. They shoulda done it after last season , he was not salvageable.

OptimisticTexan said:
why did OB decide to kick the ball into the endzone versus forcing a return to eat up some of the clock at 37 seconds left in the game? .
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That's a good question.
 
Speedy said:
Just watched the all-22 focusing mostly on the OL. Man, Henderson is horrible. He is not the answer at RT. Martin wasn't bad but he had a lot of help most of the night. You could certainly tell they weren't gelling as a unit. TEs weren't helping early on. Not only missing blocks, but running into their own guys knocking them off their blocks.
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Yeah, just re-watched about a quarter ..... Henderson is slow, lumbering, and unassertive !
 
Corrosion said:
They were in man coverage and all played very tight . That's about as far from "Prevent" as you can get.

RC made the right call , Colvin blew the assignment and Brees took advantage of his mistake - like he had multiple other times throughout the game.

They also made the right call cutting Colvin. They shoulda done it after last season , he was not salvageable.



That's a good question.
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It was the 3 man rush on Brees and everyone else in coverage that doomed those 37 seconds for the Texans defense. It's an obvious passing situation for the Saints and running the ball will eat away those precious seconds......if you don't think your DB's are capable of covering the receivers under a blitz call, why not just put 11 men in coverage and dare them to try and run? The Texans were just wasting 3 defensive players for nothing.
 
OL made huge strides in-season last year. It isnt going to be great and you know what is said about teams without a legit OL come January but we should be seeing progress week on week at least.
 
From @Mollywhopper

"PFF grades for the oline (I know, I know, pff is expletive. Whatever, it's just one metric)..

Laremy Tunsil - 64 snaps - 1 penalty- 2 sacks - 65.5 grade

Senio Kelemete - 64 - 0 - 1 - 73.4

Nick Martin - 64 - 0 - 0 - 66.2

Zach Fulton - 64 - 0 - 0 - 63.8

Seantrel Henderson - 64 - 2 - 0 - 41.5

Overall - 3 - 3 - 62.1 grade

tl;dr - hot garbage."
 
I care week to week about the OL because it affects Watson. I know that their line play will get better as the season wears on. I'm actually kinda looking forward to the 2020 OL (assuming everyone is healthy). The important thing is the they have addressed the line and now the hard part is waiting for them to gel.

Did anyone think that 5 players that have never played a pro game together as teammates were going to have a good game? Honestly, I thought they would be a lot worse.
 
TheKDog said:
From @Mollywhopper

"PFF grades for the oline (I know, I know, pff is expletive. Whatever, it's just one metric)..

Laremy Tunsil - 64 snaps - 1 penalty- 2 sacks - 65.5 grade

Senio Kelemete - 64 - 0 - 1 - 73.4

Nick Martin - 64 - 0 - 0 - 66.2

Zach Fulton - 64 - 0 - 0 - 63.8

Seantrel Henderson - 64 - 2 - 0 - 41.5

Overall - 3 - 3 - 62.1 grade

tl;dr - hot garbage."
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Its inherently dumb to assess & grade these guys individually when this group, perhaps moreso than any other is reliant on working together to be at its best. Case & point, the sack totals in these numbers...According to these individual grades, Our 3rd best graded linemen gave up the most & our worst graded lineman gave up none. In that regard, how much weight does an individual performance grade hold? The other thing is, The group as whole only gave up 3 sacks total according to these numbers..... which isn't bad at all. Yet we all know that DW4 was sacked 6 times..who accounts for the other 3? DW4? the backs? Honestly, it really doesn't matter b/c we all know how it will & has played here & nationally...... which is the o-line gave up 6 sacks....
 
TheKDog said:
From @Mollywhopper

"PFF grades for the oline (I know, I know, pff is expletive. Whatever, it's just one metric)..

Laremy Tunsil - 64 snaps - 1 penalty- 2 sacks - 65.5 grade

Senio Kelemete - 64 - 0 - 1 - 73.4

Nick Martin - 64 - 0 - 0 - 66.2

Zach Fulton - 64 - 0 - 0 - 63.8

Seantrel Henderson - 64 - 2 - 0 - 41.5

Overall - 3 - 3 - 62.1 grade

tl;dr - hot garbage."
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I have to admit, I was watching more ball than line .... they seem ball-parkish to me .... except Kelemete .... he looks at least 10 points too high to me. They should get incrementally better almost weekly, depending on which defense were going up against .... the Saints are no slouch ! IMHO, we can't our rookies out there fast enough !
 
steelbtexan said:
Tunsil is one of the 1sts

Stills a 2020 fourth and a 2021 6th equals a 2nd or better.

But keep up your narrative.

BTW, what did the Texans win while Kubiak was here.
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Not sure why you keep bringing Kubiak into every response to me, I know you're obsessed, but it's time to move on. The coach I'm thinking of these days is O'Brien doing his best Chip Kelly impersonation, trying to run the entire team as if it were college and swinging for the fences to the detriment of the whole. Since we just used two picks on the line, in the span of a few months we've blown through 3 firsts and a 3rd on one starting linemen and a couple rookies who aren't inspiring a lot of confidence (and playing different positions). One offensive lineman and your outlook on the entire organization gets flipped upside down lol.

New Orleans was missing a good chunk of their defensive line to injury and suspension, and we were still getting pushed.
 
Speedy said:
3 sacks isn’t bad at all? 3 sacks per game comes out to 48 for a season, and that ain’t good.
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2 of those came before 7 minutes left in Q1. I felt the OL started out that quarter horrifically those first 2 series and made modest improvement from there.
 
Scooter said:
Not sure why you keep bringing Kubiak into every response to me, I know you're obsessed, but it's time to move on. The coach I'm thinking of these days is O'Brien doing his best Chip Kelly impersonation, trying to run the entire team as if it were college and swinging for the fences to the detriment of the whole. Since we just used two picks on the line, in the span of a few months we've blown through 3 firsts and a 3rd on one starting linemen and a couple rookies who aren't inspiring a lot of confidence (and playing different positions). One offensive lineman and your outlook on the entire organization gets flipped upside down lol.

New Orleans was missing a good chunk of their defensive line to injury and suspension, and we were still getting pushed.
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We will see how this turns out.

This wasn't just about the Tunsil trade. I was about a commitment to protect Watson. Trading for Tunsil/drafting Howard (Who BTW didn't play against the Saints.) and Scharping means this franchise has gone in a long overdue new direction. You can disagree with the Direction but there is a new direction. Protecting Watson is job #1, unlike what went on in previous regimes.
 
Speedy said:
3 sacks isn’t bad at all? 3 sacks per game comes out to 48 for a season, and that ain’t good.
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Interesting tidbit on last year for the Texans: half of Watson's sacks (31) happened in 5 games.

Interesting tidbit on last year for the NFL: giving up 40 sacks meant you were in the top half of the league.

I would take 3 sacks every game if it meant no more 5, 6 and 7 sack games. Unrealistic to assume this team is going to go from ass end to anything more than middle of the pack in one year.





Caveat for our new modded world: In my opinion, no personal attack, open to you having a different opinion on the matter.
 
steelbtexan said:
We will see how this turns out.

This wasn't just about the Tunsil trade. I was about a commitment to protect Watson. Trading for Tunsil/drafting Howard (Who BTW didn't play against the Saints.) and Scharping means this franchise has gone in a long overdue new direction. You can disagree with the Direction but there is a new direction. Protecting Watson is job #1, unlike what went on in previous regimes.
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That's not a direction, it's desperation. A new direction would be trusting your GM to fill out the coaching ranks with experienced coaches who can input towards better draft moves, who can run a similar system and improve the coaching level (thus improving talent level), who can make better decisions on game day. A GM with experience required to make such huge moves and not get fleeced. We're not void of talent, but execution and design, especially among the offensive line is a steady decline regardless of who we bring in. I'm all for a new direction, heck I'd even let O'Brien stay head coach if that's ALL he was (more Tomlin, less Kelly). Instead he's coaching, designing and calling almost the entire offense (badly), defense has RAC but no oversight, and Benson is still with the offensive line. We've been throwing free agents and trades at the line for years and everyone gets worse. Our first round left tackle didn't even make it to camp at any specific position.

I want the offensive line attended first and foremost as well. But IMO we're doing it backasswards and it's costing the team dearly.
 
Scooter said:
That's not a direction, it's desperation. A new direction would be trusting your GM to fill out the coaching ranks with experienced coaches who can input towards better draft moves, who can run a similar system and improve the coaching level (thus improving talent level), who can make better decisions on game day. A GM with experience required to make such huge moves and not get fleeced. We're not void of talent, but execution and design, especially among the offensive line is a steady decline regardless of who we bring in. I'm all for a new direction, heck I'd even let O'Brien stay head coach if that's ALL he was (more Tomlin, less Kelly). Instead he's coaching, designing and calling almost the entire offense, defense has RAC but no oversight, and Benson is still with the offensive line. We've been throwing free agents and trades at the line for years and everyone gets worse. Our first round left tackle didn't even make it to camp at any specific position.

I want the offensive line attended first and foremost as well. But IMO we're doing it backasswards and it's costing the team dearly.
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Honest question: What GM doesn't let the HC chose his staff? Heck, there are a lot of GM's out there chosen by the HC.
 
sandman said:
Honest question: What GM doesn't let the HC chose his staff? Heck, there are a lot of GM's out there chosen by the HC.
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You have a point. The GM in my world would be making sure that we had a full staff, especially after our offense's spectacular failures in the playoffs. He'd be over the coach's shoulder with recommendations with who is and will be coming available. Preferably someone with NFL experience who could himself bring some experienced underlings.
 
Scooter said:
That's not a direction, it's desperation. A new direction would be trusting your GM to fill out the coaching ranks with experienced coaches who can input towards better draft moves, who can run a similar system and improve the coaching level (thus improving talent level), who can make better decisions on game day. A GM with experience required to make such huge moves and not get fleeced. We're not void of talent, but execution and design, especially among the offensive line is a steady decline regardless of who we bring in. I'm all for a new direction, heck I'd even let O'Brien stay head coach if that's ALL he was (more Tomlin, less Kelly). Instead he's coaching, designing and calling almost the entire offense (badly), defense has RAC but no oversight, and Benson is still with the offensive line. We've been throwing free agents and trades at the line for years and everyone gets worse. Our first round left tackle didn't even make it to camp at any specific position.

I want the offensive line attended first and foremost as well. But IMO we're doing it backasswards and it's costing the team dearly.
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If Watson is well protected this season it will have been worth the cost to me. Two 1sts for a franchise LT is a reasonable cost. BTW, those Miami 4th/6th's are going to be like 3rd/5ths.

So you get a franchise LT and have to give up two 1sts and a 2nd. You get back Tunsil/4th thats essentially a low 3rd and a 6th that's essentially a low 5th, plus a very valuable guy in Stills. What more do you want? Fleeced, LMAO

You dont like the Howard/Scharping picks?

As far as the coaching goes BOB's been an avg HC. Lets see if he's better now that he's calling the shots with better talent and if Monday is any indication I think this is a 10 win team if Watson stays healthy. Of course you will be b!tching because you dont like BOB and never have.

Look, you're obviously an Aggie so you dont have a clue as to what a championship team looks like (Not saying the Texans are having parades this offseason) I get this. But just chill man.
 
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Scooter said:
You have a point. The GM in my world would be making sure that we had a full staff, especially after our offense's spectacular failures in the playoffs. He'd be over the coach's shoulder with recommendations with who is and will be coming available. Preferably someone with NFL experience who could himself bring some experienced underlings.
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Fair. Not saying it can't be done that way. Just not sure you're going to get a top tier HC with that model.
 
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