Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Texans to take a closer look at Young

Tale Gator

Tale Gator

________
A few notable quotes from the article...
______

Texans to take a closer look at Young

"I'm excited to watch Vince throw because he's a really talented young man, but the Longhorns have a lot of other good prospects, too," McNair said. "I'm looking forward to watching all of them."

"Since Vince didn't participate in the drills at the combine, this is our first chance to see him since the Rose Bowl," McNair said. "I can listen to the coaches and scouts tell me about Vince. I can watch him on film, too, but I still like to watch him work out. "We plan to bring Vince and Reggie to Houston, too, so we can meet with them."

Asked what Davis told him about Young, Kubiak smiled and said, "A lot of great things, naturally."

"Hey, it's how the kid plays the game," Kubiak said. "Greg Davis said Vince was a great kid who's very coachable. Greg feels like Vince is just getting started as far as reaching his full potential as a quarterback."

Houston Chronicle
 
On the Cold Pizza preview a few minutes ago, they said Casserly, Kubiak, and McNair were all going to Austin to watch Young's workout. They said the Texans are undecided between Young and Bush...
 
I'm surprised. I thought the front office was going to officially announce their first pick on Cold Pizza this morning. :sarcasm:
 
SteelBlueToro said:
It's a courtesy call. Imagine the reaction if the Texans sent only the scouting staff! :redtowel:
Click to expand...

Spoken like a fine Sam Houston State University Bearkat, lol.

Kinda like JOSH MCCOWN ...I STILL can't believe the Texans didn't look at him.

But anyway, The Texan coaching staff almost HAD to be there for this thing. They also hinted that they might be looking at some other players there ...like Michael Huff. Hmm...
 
UT does have other guys slated to go in the 1st 3 rounds. Jonathan Scott comes to mind as a guy likely available at #33.
 
I think it is a good move to bring such an entourage. Hopefully Vince will go off, and the hype will be back on... So that folks will want our #1..

I also read in that article, that Vince will be interviewed in Houston...... another good move.

I liked how the chronicle "drew" out the 6 point of reference map from Kubes to Greg Davis, to Vince...... kinda get that inside good ole boy rumor mill rolling.
 
Tha_Tinman said:
Kinda like JOSH MCCOWN ...I STILL can't believe the Texans didn't look at him.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. He wanted to go to a situation where he had a chance to start this season. Detroit gives him that. Houston would not have.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think it is a good move to bring such an entourage. Hopefully Vince will go off, and the hype will be back on... So that folks will want our #1..
Click to expand...


Even if Vince has a great pro day, and everyone does, it will not affect any team in wanting to trade up to #1 to get Vince Young. Vince is a great prospect, but is not #1 quality because he isn't even the best player at his position.
 
This is nothing more than a dog and pony show to appease the Horns out there. Sending Mcnair gives the appearance that we are really undecided between Bush and Young, and gives them a bit of ammo against the Tsips. Unless VY has the best workout of any QB ever, this decision is all but signed, sealed, and delivered. In fact, the envolope is already at the podium just waiting for Tags to open it Apr 29th.
 
Didn't people say last year that Alex Smith had the best workout since Troy Aikman? I don't think the results of his pro day will change anything.
 
tulexan said:
Even if Vince has a great pro day, and everyone does, it will not affect any team in wanting to trade up to #1 to get Vince Young. Vince is a great prospect, but is not #1 quality because he isn't even the best player at his position.
Click to expand...

You say that like it's a fact. According to scouting services, Leinart is #1. NFL Teams have to make picks, they aren't scouting services. They have preferences and schemes and their own draft grades; their picks aren't always based on consensus evaluations. If they have the same arm strength, but Leinart is more accurate and wiser in the pocket, while Young is a vastly superior athlete, how is it that cut and dry that Leinart is the guy? Young's passing efficiency was superior to Leinart's with a lesser supporting unit, so the argument that Leinart is a better passer isn't that cut and dry either. Young seems to possess some rare winning and playmaking attributes. He shouldn't be written off so quickly. Here's a quick question, who would Denver pick between Young and Leinart? That's not so simple.

That being said, I don't think anyone moves up to #1 for Young, because now it seems that he will slip out of the top 3. However, that doesn't mean guys drafted in front of him are better prospects. Randy Moss anyone?
 
The reason why he isn't the #1 QB prospect is because he has the most risk. Sure, he may have the highest potential returns of all of the QBs, but people don't like to pick extremely risky players that high. Think of it like investing in a junk bond. You can potentially get really high returns then you would on a safer company, but you also have the risk of losing all of your invested money. Vince is a junk bond, Leinart is a Coca Cola bond.
 
tulexan said:
The reason why he isn't the #1 QB prospect is because he has the most risk. Sure, he may have the highest potential returns of all of the QBs, but people don't like to pick extremely risky players that high. Think of it like investing in a junk bond. You can potentially get really high returns then you would on a safer company, but you also have the risk of losing all of your invested money. Vince is a junk bond, Leinart is a Coca Cola bond.
Click to expand...


You just never know what a team might value. And usually, they are not shouting what they want from the mountaintops during the draft period. Typically the top picks are overvalued statistically, and partially that is because of the hype and marque value of those positions.

2001 Mike Vick was taken with the 1st pick even though he wasn't nearly a finished product but finished strong that year. VY's stats make Vick's college stats look anemic. Stats combined with his intangibles and size make VY an intriguing choice.

With all the hype and noise and whatnot, it would not surprise me at all if someone reached up and got him. Personally, I would not be someone that would bet against him achieving good things on the next level.

(It would non-surprise me if Dallas was working to try to get him. JJ is known for his flamboyant flash picks, he reached to get Quincy Carter as an attempt to get a Vick, even though statistically QC isn't in the same universe and JJ is all about sales and winning and betting on the upside and plastic surgery, but that last bit there has nothing to do with the draft, other than potentially frightening recruits and small children.).
 
I would definitely not be surprised to see Jones make a serious play to land a top 5 pick in order to land Young.
 
I believe there is a bit of a misunderstanding and it's my fault because I didn't clarify my point too well. A team might trade up to get Vince Young, but it won't be with any of the teams in the top 3 because teams know that they can trade with a team like the Packers or the Niners and still get him. There is no point in paying more than you have to for a player.
 
Texans_Chick said:
2001 Mike Vick was taken with the 1st pick even though he wasn't nearly a finished product but finished strong that year. VY's stats make Vick's college stats look anemic. Stats combined with his intangibles and size make VY an intriguing choice.

With all the hype and noise and whatnot, it would not surprise me at all if someone reached up and got him. Personally, I would not be someone that would bet against him achieving good things on the next level.
Click to expand...

All good points, but one counter/question. Vick was the consensus best QB prospect. There wasn't even another 1st round QB taken. Do you have any examples of a guy who was not the consensus #1 jumping the #1 guy?
 
Texans_Chick said:
You just never know what a team might value. And usually, they are not shouting what they want from the mountaintops during the draft period. Typically the top picks are overvalued statistically, and partially that is because of the hype and marque value of those positions.

2001 Mike Vick was taken with the 1st pick even though he wasn't nearly a finished product but finished strong that year. VY's stats make Vick's college stats look anemic. Stats combined with his intangibles and size make VY an intriguing choice.

With all the hype and noise and whatnot, it would not surprise me at all if someone reached up and got him. Personally, I would not be someone that would bet against him achieving good things on the next level.

(It would non-surprise me if Dallas was working to try to get him. JJ is known for his flamboyant flash picks, he reached to get Quincy Carter as an attempt to get a Vick, even though statistically QC isn't in the same universe and JJ is all about sales and winning and betting on the upside and plastic surgery, but that last bit there has nothing to do with the draft, other than potentially frightening recruits and small children.).
Click to expand...


hahah nice shot.

In truth though i have to agree with the Mike Vick part.

IMHO though i might get flamed to hell...Mike Vick is one of the most overated players in the NFL. Hasn't really done anything since the Green Bay playoff defeat(Unless you're playing Madden). But i'm sure there are statues being planned in Atlanta.
 
tulexan said:
I believe there is a bit of a misunderstanding and it's my fault because I didn't clarify my point too well. A team might trade up to get Vince Young, but it won't be with any of the teams in the top 3 because teams know that they can trade with a team like the Packers or the Niners and still get him. There is no point in paying more than you have to for a player.
Click to expand...


And I am saying I think it is a little early to say that nobody will reach up into the top three for VY.

Nobody "knows" anything thing for certain until the draft goes down. Teams reach for picks all the time if they really want a particular guy. Though you might disagree with it, there is a case that can be made that VY is the type of player worth reaching for.
 
infantrycak said:
All good points, but one counter/question. Vick was the consensus best QB prospect. There wasn't even another 1st round QB taken. Do you have any examples of a guy who was not the consensus #1 jumping the #1 guy?
Click to expand...


True about Vick. Though he was a bit of a reach for an overall #1--everyone was all betting on his upside. This is what happens when someone falls in love with a particular guy. That happens all the time. Especially, when marketing starts easing into the conversation.

It is end of March. More Pro Days are coming and individual workouts for teams. I think it is early to be talking about what the consensus anything is.

Hype is a weird animal and things can change over short periods of time.
 
infantrycak said:
All good points, but one counter/question. Vick was the consensus best QB prospect. There wasn't even another 1st round QB taken. Do you have any examples of a guy who was not the consensus #1 jumping the #1 guy?
Click to expand...

At RB I remember Ricky Williams getting some play as a top #3 pick and Edge going ahead of him. Surely he was the consensus guy, but Indy wanted a superior receiver if I recall correctly, a guy closer to Marshall Faulk's abilities.

At QB, McNair had many of the questions Young had, but went ahead of Kerry Collins. Collins led the NCAA in passing efficiency in 1994, but wasn't as highly regarded as McNair.
 
Dr. Toro said:
At QB, McNair had many of the questions Young had, but went ahead of Kerry Collins. Collins led the NCAA in passing efficiency in 1994, but wasn't as highly regarded as McNair.
Click to expand...

That isn't the scenario I am asking about. What I am asking is can anyone think of an example(s) where there was a consensus #1 QB and come draft day a team fell in love with the #2 QB and took him above the consensus #1--basically one team disagreed with the consensus and drafted against it?
 
There is no way to totally throw away the chance that VY may still be the #1 pick -- if Vick doesn't prove that i'm not sure what will...
 
infantrycak said:
That isn't the scenario I am asking about. What I am asking is can anyone think of an example(s) where there was a consensus #1 QB and come draft day a team fell in love with the #2 QB and took him above the consensus #1--basically one team disagreed with the consensus and drafted against it?
Click to expand...

I do not know how anyone could answer that question. I tried looking, but it is an exercise in futility. However, in my research I was looking at the 83 draft. We always hear about the QB's from that draft, but man were there some great players other than QB's that came out of it.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/1983
 
tulexan said:
Your right.

There is a 99.999% chance that he won't be the #1 pick
Click to expand...

Can you please share with us the model that helped you form that conclusion? I do not want VY, but that is a pretty high number.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I do not know how anyone could answer that question. I tried looking, but it is an exercise in futility.
Click to expand...

Well it would pretty much have to at least start with a personal memory--something like knowing Leaf was ranked higher by most folks than Manning (IMO that wasn't true but just as an example). I just don't recall a QB shocker pick at the top of the 1st round where people were surprised by who went 1st. Doesn't mean it won't happen--just an observation/question.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Can you please share with us the model that helped you form that conclusion? I do not want VY, but that is a pretty high number.
Click to expand...


Of course, let me just review my notes for a few minutes.
 
infantrycak said:
All good points, but one counter/question. Vick was the consensus best QB prospect. There wasn't even another 1st round QB taken. Do you have any examples of a guy who was not the consensus #1 jumping the #1 guy?
Click to expand...


Wasn't Ryan Leaf the consensus #1 when Manning got picked ahead of him??
 
thunderkyss said:
Wasn't Ryan Leaf the consensus #1 when Manning got picked ahead of him??
Click to expand...

My recollection is more people favored Manning as the more polished/NFL ready QB while some folks favored Leaf's superior athletic ability (now that I type that it has overtones of this debate while involving totally different players).

From an outside source:

There was actually significant debate over whether Leaf or Manning should be selected first. Leaf (6'5", 235 lbs) had a considerably stronger arm, but most analysts agreed that Manning was the more mature player. On draft day Manning seemed to be the consensus top choice and was selected first by the Indianapolis Colts.
Click to expand...

Link
 
tulexan said:
Even if Vince has a great pro day, and everyone does, it will not affect any team in wanting to trade up to #1 to get Vince Young. Vince is a great prospect, but is not #1 quality because he isn't even the best player at his position.
Click to expand...

Says you.., and a bunch of other people who have been wrong about QBs more times than I can shake a stick at. It is in our Best interest, to make it appear that we are interested in taking Vince, especially if he has a great pro day, like he's had a great junior year, and two great Rose Bowl performances.

Your Vince Young bias is not helping us at all.
 
infantrycak said:
That isn't the scenario I am asking about. What I am asking is can anyone think of an example(s) where there was a consensus #1 QB and come draft day a team fell in love with the #2 QB and took him above the consensus #1--basically one team disagreed with the consensus and drafted against it?
Click to expand...

Jim McMahon was drafted immediately after Art Schlichter. Don't think we've got draft grades from 1982 though. Any historians out there? A lot of people preferred Leaf's tools to Manning, but I've read psychological profiles of the two revealed Manning to be a stud and Leaf a loser, so Indy took Peyton. There was Bledsoe and Mirer in 1993, with Bledsoe going #1. That was a Parcells pick, was that one of "his guys" that he fell in love with? Mirer had a superior rookie year. Don't know if he was the consensus guy though.
 
thunderkyss said:
Says you.., and a bunch of other people who have been wrong about QBs more times than I can shake a stick at. It is in our Best interest, to make it appear that we are interested in taking Vince, especially if he has a great pro day, like he's had a great junior year, and two great Rose Bowl performances.

Your Vince Young bias is not helping us at all.
Click to expand...


Everyone knows that the Texans aren't taking Vince Young. Well I shouldn't say everyone, because there are still the few delusional fans that believe we will, but besides them everyone knows that he isn't going to the Texans. If we were going to draft Vince Young we wouldn't have extended David Carr to a 3 year contract and given him an $8 million signing bonus. He would have been either transitioned tagged, franchise tagged, or signed to a 2 year extension with a $5 million bonus. We also have Kubiak talking about how much he loves Carr, we know that Reeves loves Carr, we know that the Texans went to several talent scouts across the league who all said that Carr was not the problem. Not to mention all of the subtle and overt statements from Casserly, Kubiak, and various other team sources that imply that we will be drafting Reggie Bush.

His pro day will have little effect on his draft status. If he throws well then he will remain a top 10 pick most likely going to the Raiders at 7. If he throws poorly, he will probably fall to the Cardinals at 10. If he has a terrible pro day (which never happens), he might fall a few spots lower. He will probably have a Big Ben type fall rather than an Aaron Rodgers lead balloon fall.

But if you look at the projections before the Rose Bowl, this is the area where he was projected to be drafted anyways. That is why it isn't really even a fall. It's not like he had been the consensus top pick and has dropped. He was originally a top 10 pick, after the Rose Bowl the hype machine was firing on all cylinders and he rose to a top 3 pick, and then reality set in and emotions cooled and he returned back to where he should be. He had a momentary spike, but returned to where he should be.

Like in most situations, emotion produces short term results, but logic wins out in the long run.


That being said, Vince could eventually turn out to be the best QB of this years draft class. But so could Matt Leinart, so could Jay Cutler, so could Brody Croyle, so could Omar Jacobs, and every other QB in this draft class. The reason why he won't be drafted #1 is because that would require some other team trading up to get him. We have already said that we want a Godfather deal. That would mean that some team would have to give up multiple high draft picks in this years draft and next years (two draft classes deep with talent) for someone who is a risk/high return player. Not only that, but he most likely won't see the field for at least a season or two. In this age of producing results right now or being fired, I don't believe that any coach/gm will give up multiple high draft picks for a player that they may never see play while they are employed.

If you are going to give up that many picks in the next two talent deep drafts, you are going to want to get a player that you are confident will be successful as soon as possible. That is why if any team is going to trade up for a QB, it will be for Leinart.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Can you please share with us the model that helped you form that conclusion? I do not want VY, but that is a pretty high number.
Click to expand...

I would put it closer to 95%.

If Vince puts together a phenomenal pro day, it will cause a public buzz, but unless he truly has tricks he hasn't shown us yet, how will that truly elevate his draft stock? Pro days demonstrate measurables (like speed, though I still predict Vince running in the low 4.4s, and I predict generosity from the timekeeper) and past that, not much, as the conditions tend to be controlled and not particularly gamelike.

He came out this year because of his phenomenal Rose Bowl, and he can't do much better than that to show what he's got. Unless he times at 4.29 or guns the rock 75 yards off his back foot, don't expect much to change. Same QB, same positives, same negatives. Pro days are like car shows: lots of gleam, but won't tell you a whole hell of a lot that you don't already know.
 
IIRC, last year early in the draft period people were picking Aaron Rodgers as the possible #1 pick over Alex Smith--Rodgers made Cal overachieve and had a fat completion percentage. As it got closer to the draft the choice between Rodgers and Smith got more muddled, as not too many people in that draft had a need at QB and there were worries with Rodgers size and the whole Tedford thing. Smith got more hype closer to the draft after the workouts and the Wonderlic business and whatnot.

Maybe not the best example, but it was a try off the top of my head.

I'm just saying there is still a lot of hype time between now and then. That, and VY is such an intriguing prospect that he is the sort of non-fungible player that a team might want to particularly get.
 
A lot of the reason why people saw Aaron Rodgers as a favorite to go #1 was because he went to Cal Berkley and was from northern California. I believe he was also a big Niners fan.

I never really liked him. I thought he was really arrogant in the interviews of him that I saw.
 
I would like to also add that Casserly's rep on the MBas a riverboat gambler is not completely undeserved. He has made a point repeatedly in talking about the draft (not just this year), that they way that he value players is not necessarily the same as what the pundits say. Rightly or wrongly, he prides himself for seeing things that others do not necessarily see. And he was behind the whole Ricky Williams blockbuster trade.

He's had his knees cut out from him some this year, so a bizarre move with the first pick is not likely, but what is considered a "Godfather" trade to him isn't necessarily what it would be for others.

In other words, nothing would surprise me in this draft.
 
The difference this year is that Casserly has to consult his decisions with Kubiak, Reeves, and McNair.
 
tulexan said:
Everyone knows that the Texans aren't taking Vince Young. Well I shouldn't say everyone, because there are still the few delusional fans that believe we will, but besides them everyone knows that he isn't going to the Texans. If we were going to draft Vince Young we wouldn't have extended David Carr to a 3 year contract and given him an $8 million signing bonus. He would have been either transitioned tagged, franchise tagged, or signed to a 2 year extension with a $5 million bonus. We also have Kubiak talking about how much he loves Carr, we know that Reeves loves Carr, we know that the Texans went to several talent scouts across the league who all said that Carr was not the problem. Not to mention all of the subtle and overt statements from Casserly, Kubiak, and various other team sources that imply that we will be drafting Reggie Bush.
Click to expand...
We were implying that we would be drafting Reggie before Kubiak even interviewed for the job...... it's just a cowinkydink, that hasn't changed even though we were pretty solid at the RB position.... Signing David Carr to a 2 year extension instead of a 3 year extension is almost as bad as franchising Drew Brees......... we'd be forced to try to trade David in the second year... 3 year contract, while we can trade him in his second year, we might want to keep him as a backup while Vince starts in year two..... heck Vince might get hurt...... Then we'll still have year three to trade him.

It's just a guess, but I doubt Carr is the only QB Kubiak, Reeves, Casserly, and possibly Bob Mcnair is in love with.
tulexan said:
His pro day will have little effect on his draft status. If he throws well then he will remain a top 10 pick most likely going to the Raiders at 7. If he throws poorly, he will probably fall to the Cardinals at 10. If he has a terrible pro day (which never happens), he might fall a few spots lower. He will probably have a Big Ben type fall rather than an Aaron Rodgers lead balloon fall.
Click to expand...
There are about half a dozen things the Texans brass can say after a great Workout, that will shoot Vince's stock up.
tulexan said:
But if you look at the projections before the Rose Bowl, this is the area where he was projected to be drafted anyways. That is why it isn't really even a fall. It's not like he had been the consensus top pick and has dropped. He was originally a top 10 pick, after the Rose Bowl the hype machine was firing on all cylinders and he rose to a top 3 pick, and then reality set in and emotions cooled and he returned back to where he should be. He had a momentary spike, but returned to where he should be.

Like in most situations, emotion produces short term results, but logic wins out in the long run.
Click to expand...
The objective of the salesman is to play on those emotions, and guide the prospect into making a decision the prospect believes is beneficial to them.
tulexan said:
That being said, Vince could eventually turn out to be the best QB of this years draft class. But so could Matt Leinart, so could Jay Cutler, so could Brody Croyle, so could Omar Jacobs, and every other QB in this draft class.
Click to expand...
If I were running the show, I would have sent a high profile team to look at Cutler, and lienart also. a team to look at Omar, maybe not as high profile, but I'd be well represented.
tulexan said:
The reason why he won't be drafted #1 is because that would require some other team trading up to get him. We have already said that we want a Godfather deal. That would mean that some team would have to give up multiple high draft picks in this years draft and next years (two draft classes deep with talent) for someone who is a risk/high return player. Not only that, but he most likely won't see the field for at least a season or two. In this age of producing results right now or being fired, I don't believe that any coach/gm will give up multiple high draft picks for a player that they may never see play while they are employed.

If you are going to give up that many picks in the next two talent deep drafts, you are going to want to get a player that you are confident will be successful as soon as possible. That is why if any team is going to trade up for a QB, it will be for Leinart.
Click to expand...

Again, I'd be out in full force to see Lienart also..... media is going to ask about Bush, and I'll look at Bush, but I'll show lots and lots of interest in Lienart...... and a little at ole Lendale.

You do understand that the more people we are interested in, the more people will be willing to offer us that landmark deal. It will help, if N.O. announces early that they've made a deal with a team believed to be seeking a QB......... Dallas, maybe Denver, Oakland.... etc...
 
You are assuming that the Texans actually want to trade the pick. I believe they have no intention of trading it and never have.

All of this "we still don't know who we will take between Vince and Reggie" is coachspeak, gmspeak, ownerspeak, and attempts to appease the Longhorn fanatics. If the Texans were really interested in replacing Carr, we would have heard them talking about Cutler and Leinart as well. But we haven't.
 
tulexan said:
You are assuming that the Texans actually want to trade the pick. I believe they have no intention of trading it and never have.

All of this "we still don't know who we will take between Vince and Reggie" is coachspeak, gmspeak, ownerspeak, and attempts to appease the Longhorn fanatics. If the Texans were really interested in replacing Carr, we would have heard them talking about Cutler and Leinart as well. But we haven't.
Click to expand...

Because Cutler and Leinart don't give you much more than Carr gives you--fat college stats and an arm. But you would have to do a do-over.

VY is something different. And if he meets his potential, there are going to be a lot of teams that feel pretty stupid looking at this draft in retrospect. And if doesn't, well then they will be patting themselves on the back.

I don't think the Texans are going to trade the pick because nobody is going to be willing to give up the value for it, but I don't see CC doing his normal draft dance just because of the PR of it. He wants to see what he can get from whomever and have options. But yeah, they are gonna want a lot for the pick and it is not likely they are gonna get it, but you never know.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Because Cutler and Leinart don't give you much more than Carr gives you--fat college stats and an arm. But you would have to do a do-over.

VY is something different.
Click to expand...


he's from Houston and went to college at UT
 
chuckm said:
he's from Houston and went to college at UT
Click to expand...


And he had the highest completion percentage in the regular season out of all the college QBs.

And had more rushing than Reggie Bush or the top two RB picks of last year.

You know, you can make it just a homer thing, or you can recognize that VY's talent is something that is remarkable.

And so as not to offend people who don't like looking at actual facts, I will put this in a link: The Link that VY haters don't like looking at in case it means that we passed on the BPA.

I cannot find any player's college careers that are comparable to VYs. That is what makes him different. Be smug about that all you want, it just is what it is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top