The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

TheKDog said:

Part of being a "genius" is talent evaluation and acquiring great talent.

It's not trying to coach up "a bunch of good guys" like O'Brien seems to think. That's why he's kicking out Clowney I guess.

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zshawn10 said:

UPDATED NFL RUMORS
Source: Ravens/Eagles/Bills/Dolphins still pursuing Texans (DE) Clowney

Texans management hasn’t decided yet if trading Clowney is in best interest of team for this season, Coach Bill O’Brien does not want his DE traded.

— IB

(@incarceratedbob) August 12, 2019

https://t.co/8PwdC374iA

— IB

(@incarceratedbob) August 13, 2019

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TheKDog said:

Wut.

Then why not extend him?

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Mr teX said:

Probably b/c he actually does want him here...contrary to the crap spewed around here for some. Whether he's traded in the future or not still has no bearing on whether he likes him though. It's just business right?

Isn't that the excuse folks used for Daryl Morey when he traded CP3 a week after he said everything between he and Harden was all good?

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TheKDog said:

If he wants him here why not extend him?

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JB said:

It takes two... Would you want to pay Clowney $200 million?

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TheKDog said:

If he wants him here why not extend him?

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TheKDog said:

Is he asking that much? From reports it sounds like they are lowballing him and O'Brien doesn't like him. There was the report gaine wanted to extend him but O'Brien didn't

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maverick512000 said:

Before that would have been a Gaine call, since then it could be that Clowney no longer wants to be here so he's not signing anything. It could also be that his asking price is way to high for the current market. I would GUESS that Clowney is wanting a trent Brown style stupid money payday but the teams throwing around that kind of stupid money are mostly done or not in the market for Clowney at that price. Its not just a matter of 'extend him" both sides have to agree on the amount and Clowney is good but he's not worth breaking the bank over.

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TheKDog said:

If he wants him here why not extend him?

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TheKDog said:

There was no gaine call. OBrien was signing off on everything

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TheKDog said:

Is he asking that much? From reports it sounds like they are lowballing him and O'Brien doesn't like him. There was the report gaine wanted to extend him but O'Brien didn't

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TheKDog said:

If he wants him here why not extend him?

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PapaL said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/corryjoel/status/1161263438930145280

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Dejaview said:

Clowney is a GM nightmare. Number one overall. Great when great but wish sack totals were better. Beast on the run game....but it’s the big question mark on that knee. Isn’t he at that point where some (Doc?) indicated it would start to deteriorate? I think this franchise tag is the only way to go while watching that knee. If he passes this test, I’d be for extending him two years max. But oooooooh, that’s big money to hang out there with that knee. I’m in the don’t trade camp. I’d still like to know how he would fare with another team’s physical.

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PapaL said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/corryjoel/status/1161263438930145280

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badboy said:

I do not think this is true. I wish Joel Curry had provided a link for his opinion. He is correct saying Texans cannot negotiate on a contract until after 2019. There has been too much talk from too many reliable sources about trade possibilities. IMO an interested team would need Texans permission to discuss LTD with Clowney agent. Since the tag designation does not transfer to another team I doubt that part.

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Section 8. Good Faith Negotiation: (a) In addition to complying with specific provisions in this Agreement, any Club, any player, and any player agent or contract advisor engaged in negotiations for a Player Contract (including any Club extending, and any player receiving, a Required Tender) is under an obligation to negotiate in good faith. (b) A Club extending a Required Tender must, for so long as that Tender is extended, have a good faith intention to employ the player receiving the Tender at the Tender compensation level during the upcoming season. It shall be deemed to be a violation of this provision if, while the tender is outstanding, a Club insists that such a player agree to a Player Contract at a compensation level during the upcoming season below that of the Required Tender amount. The foregoing shall not affect any rights that a Club may have under the Player Contract or this Agreement, including but not limited to the right to terminate the contract, renegotiate the contract, or to trade the player if such termination, renegotiation, or trade is otherwise permitted by the Player Contract or this Agreement.

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mussop said:

Clowney is gone.

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A final word: Some of you on social media interrupted my awesome meal at Bern’s Steakhouse Monday evening to ask about the unsubstantiated rumor that the Dolphins are interested in Houston Texans defensive end Jadeveon Clowney in a trade.

And I reached out to a team source who did not dismiss potential interest. So, Interesting. Because why wouldn’t most NFL teams be interested in a player of Clowney’s caliber? But the same source was not aware Clowney is currently being shopped.

That doesn’t mean he wasn’t shopped earlier, so there’s that.

Remember that when Los Angeles Rams defensive lineman Aaron Donald’s name was floating around as possible trade bait last offseason, I reported the Dolphins would have been interested in the player if Donald was actually available. Except he was never actually available. So this might be similar in that regard.

Clowney is not the same caliber of player as Donald but he’s obviously a pass-rush upgrade for the Dolphins.

But here’s the problem, as outlined to me by a league source: Say the Dolphins are interested in Clowney. They’re giving up a first-round and possibly other picks to get him and then sign him to a huge deal?

Would he agree to come to Miami and sign a new deal? And would the Dolphins think it a good investment to pay multiple high picks in the current environment?

Is he the final piece of the puzzle on defense for a Miami team making a run at a championship with a great franchise quarterback?

Oh, wait. No.

The Dolphins actually have no franchise quarterback.

And to get that great quarterback the Dolphins have to hope Josh Rosen suddenly blossoms into something amazing or they have to draft a QB next spring in the first round. Except that would take a first-round pick and maybe other resources.

The same resources it would take to pry Clowney from the Texans.

So Miami’s interest wouldn’t seem logical. The league source also had not heard of the Dolphins leading any charge to get Clowney. He confirmed the Texans gauged interest in Clowney around the draft last April but didn’t think Clowney is currently available. Things can change and often do in the NFL.

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Nothing in {page 41} this Subsection shall preclude a Prior Club from entering into a Player Contract with a player subject to a Tender, and subsequently trading that player under that Player Contract to another Club, provided that the player and the NFLPA must approve in advance any such trade that takes place during the Signing Period. If a Club exercises its Right of First Refusal and matches an Offer Sheet, that Club may not trade that player to the Club that submitted the Offer Sheet for at least one calendar year, unless the player consents to such trade. (i)

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badboy said:

CLowney was given a non-exclusive tag with Houston maintaining right of first refusal allowing other teams to negotiate contract with him. An 'exclusive tag' would have eliminated other teams from talking to him period. TO clarify 2011 CBA

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badboy said:

CLowney was given a non-exclusive tag with Houston maintaining right of first refusal allowing other teams to negotiate contract with him. An 'exclusive tag' would have eliminated other teams from talking to him period. TO clarify 2011 CBA

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gs27 said:

FWIW, my SWAG is that the Texans are trying to get a probable early 2020 1st round pick for Clowney, which they would use to add a cornerback before the season in another trade. Possibly send Clowney trade pick to Arizona to get Peterson in a sign and trade deal. I know most don't believe it, but IMO the Texans are doing everything they can to get better next season. Problem is they need another team to offer a contract Clowney will agree to.

Ax that Peterson is suspended 6 games, some other corner than LOL

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badboy said:

although every Source I have reviewed that discussed Ramsey possibly being traded listed only a first round pick, I would include Lonnie Johnson our 2019 second round pick and go up to include 2020 and 2021 first rounders. So Johnson now and two Firsts in future. Jags absolutely do not want to trade Ramsey but it looks like it may come down to money and lots of it which they do not have. 18 million dollars Cap now but in 2020 they are in the red 8 million dollars. That's before any increase to Yannick.

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badboy said:

AS I posted in college forum thread we could give our own 2020 & 2021 firsts for Ramsey and keep what we get for Clowney.

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gs27 said:

FWIW, my SWAG is that the Texans are trying to get a probable early 2020 1st round pick for Clowney, which they would use to add a cornerback before the season in another trade. Possibly send Clowney trade pick to Arizona to get Peterson in a sign and trade deal. I know most don't believe it, but IMO the Texans are doing everything they can to get better next season. Problem is they need another team to offer a contract Clowney will agree to.

Ax that Peterson is suspended 6 games, some other corner than LOL

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badboy said:

although every Source I have reviewed that discussed Ramsey possibly being traded listed only a first round pick, I would include Lonnie Johnson our 2019 second round pick and go up to include 2020 and 2021 first rounders. So Johnson now and two Firsts in future. Jags absolutely do not want to trade Ramsey but it looks like it may come down to money and lots of it which they do not have. 18 million dollars Cap now but in 2020 they are in the red 8 million dollars. That's before any increase to Yannick.

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JB said:

And outside the signing period?

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zshawn10 said:

Armando reporting the Dolphins have "no desire" to trade for Clowney. https://t.co/K2ZeM6FnUx

— patrick (@PatDStat) August 13, 2019

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maverick512000 said:

That's a lot for Ramsey, I mean he's good but that's a whole lot. Would Ramsey make us better yeah sure but I don't think he is the missing piece we need for a SB run given how many holes are still in the offense. You're trading a lot of draft capital away for a guy that isn't going to be what gets us over the hump.

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zshawn10 said:

Armando reporting the Dolphins have "no desire" to trade for Clowney. https://t.co/K2ZeM6FnUx

— patrick (@PatDStat) August 13, 2019

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badboy said:

Do not agree. Ramsey was ALL PRO first year and in a "down second year" was pro bowler. He will be to CB what Trent Williams is to LT. My plan is to have both. Note my post says start with Lonnie Johnson and 2020 first and go up to adding a 2021 first which allows quite a few options in between. I wouldn't take a first for Ramsey if I were the Jags but add in a second round, big, fast CB and I'd come to the negotiation table.

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TheKDog said:

@PatDStat: @Zepp1978 If they wanted to deal him with him@having no say, they should have done it last season. Now, Clowney has leverage. He has no contract. He controls everything. Any team trading for JD would be foolish. Can’t sign a long term deal until after the season.

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TheKDog said:

@PatDStat: @Zepp1978 If they wanted to deal him with him@having no say, they should have done it last season. Now, Clowney has leverage. He has no contract. He controls everything. Any team trading for JD would be foolish. Can’t sign a long term deal until after the season.

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badboy said:

100 % incorrect in all aspects of his post. Only thing he can do is sit out and that would be devastating to him. He loses $16 million + any interest on what he doesn't spend. His knee is not getting better. He is maintaining at best. He needs to read the CBA.

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gs27 said:

Another guy who has no idea what the **** he is talking about. Any team trading for Clowney can negotiate any contract they want with him. Who is that clown?

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Porky said:

Why couldn't he sign a LTD with a new team now? Makes no sense to me. Nobody is going to trade for him unless they can sign him long term.

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TheKDog said:

@PatDStat: @Zepp1978 If they wanted to deal him with him@having no say, they should have done it last season. Now, Clowney has leverage. He has no contract. He controls everything. Any team trading for JD would be foolish. Can’t sign a long term deal until after the season.

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The Houston Texans have been inconsistent with how they’ve handled Jadeveon Clowney’s contract. For starters, it’s their own fault for this holdout, as I’ve previously written, because it didn’t have to get this far.

The Texans have allowed this situation to go into the ninth hour, so here we are. It’s hard to really know what’s going on, as reports initially had Clowney returning after the third preseason game. This would have actually made sense from Clowney’s standpoint, as he’s going to be playing on a tag so it would seem like he would want to limit as much contact as possible.
This would have meant he succeeded in his goal of sitting out camp and sitting out the preseason, as we never see any starters play the final game of the preseason. That’s why that timing would make sense for Clowney, if that were true.

That report is the complete opposite of what was reported by John Granato of ESPN’s 97.5, who said Clowney is now threatening to sit out the entire preseason and prevented a trade from happening with the Miami Dolphins.

Granted you have to always take any of these reports with a grain of salt, as we never know who leaked these reports and we also don’t know who Granato’s sources are. There is generally a mix of truth-and-fiction in all of these stories that leak during negotiations, but let’s pretend these rumors were true.

Who exactly should the Texans ask for in return from Miami? It is a bit late in the process for a big time trade but many are speculating Laremy Tunsil would have been the Texans’ target in a deal. That would obviously help the Texans on the offensive line, especially if the Redskins are adamant on not moving Trent Williams, which is the case according to ESPN’s Adam Schefter.

Or the Texans could even seek out draft picks in return from the Dolphins similar to how the Oakland Raiders built their trade package in exchange for Khalil Mack one year ago. Granted, we may never know what a potential trade would have entailed, as Granato says Clowney’s unwillingness to commit long-term to the Dolphins killed this potential trade.

That is actually the part that’s most interesting to me. Again, we have no way of knowing if this did in fact take place, but if so I would not expect Clowney to not be open to a long-term commitment.

Again, because the Texans allowed this to drag out into the ninth hour, the deadline has passed for when Clowney can agree to terms on a deal, so even the Dolphins wouldn’t have been able to actually sign him long-term right now. The most the Dolphins would be able to get him to do is sign the franchise tag, which is the same thing the Texans can get him to do.

If Clowney really isn’t willing to talk long-term with a team like the Dolphins, he’s only shooting himself in the foot because this is likely the type of team who would give him the type of contract he is seeking.

Granato later added that Clowney was upset with the Texans for trying to move him and is now threatening to sit out all of camp. As i said earlier, this was likely his plan all along, as Clowney likely loves having the option to not go to camp.

In addition, it would seem somewhat oblivious on his part to be “upset” at the Texans seeking to trade him, as they’ve not been able to agree on a new contract. The Texans haven’t even been able to figure out what position to categorize him as, so it’s not at all surprising they want to move Clowney.

Either way, the Texans need to put an end to this situation, as this is not the type of distraction the Texans need going into the season. As I’ve always said, the Texans should really be wanting Clowney because above all else, they could really use him, especially in the future.

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maverick512000 said:

Again I agree that Ramsey is good but we are dealing with a division rival, so they are already going to make you bleed as much as possible, and there is a fair chance that Texans will be drafting top 15 next year and God only knows what 2021 will look like. You would basically have to give up two 1sts and a 2nd, in the form of Johnson, and the guy you get is still not going to be the thing that makes you a SB contender. I understand about having Williams and Ramsey but we are also about to have a lot of contracts come up so, your the numbers guy, how do we sign both of those for what will be high dollar contracts, keep Watt, Nuk, Watson and maybe Fuller and not go into cap hell. By contrast we can take the draft picks and turn them into cheap rookies that can still be play makers.

I guess the real question is are we in win now mode or not. If we are your plan is the better choice, if we aren't then its just going to hurt us long term. Personally I think we missed the "win now" window last year.

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Josh Norman signed a five year, $75 million contract with the Washington Redskins on April 22, 2016. Norman received $50 million in guarantees, $36.5 million of which is fully guaranteed at signing. Per Rich Tandler, Norman received a $15 million signing bonus and had both of his 2016 and 2017 base salaried guaranteed. We are estimating that Norman will receive annual $500,000 per game roster bonuses starting in 2017.

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