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State of the O-line

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Gotta admit it's hard to hear this because Dillard was right there for the taking, just what the Texans needed and whoever was running our Draft clearly failed badly.
Not really, Dillard did well but again, pre-season and the guy he across from in that clip is LaTroy Lewis, remember him. The other person he was matched up against was number 44 Kamalei Correa, better than Lewis, that's not saying much, but still not exactly lighting the world on fire considering he's logged 3.5 sacks in his NFL career and one was against us last year. How about we actually see him in a real game against starters before we declare him to be so great. Not saying he won't be but man people around here are reading way to much into all these pre-season games.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
That's assuming the Texans had Dillard rated higher... you know OB values the run game that Dillard may be lacking in.
The Packer broadcasters the other night spent a lot of time giving accolades to the Texans ability to stop the run. They also complained loudly about their own D being not able to stop the Texans run game. Even to the point of saying that’s got to be a focus in upcoming practices and they don’t care if it is first, second, or third team you have to stop the run game. On that last Texans TD drive they even made the comment that the Texans run game is what started to open up their passing routes. Couldn’t tell from this forum, however. Edit. Texans averaged over 4 ypc.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
I don't know even know. I stopped following the draft as closely a few years ago.
Sorry, didn't mean you specifically even though I quoted you.

I thought Philly's trade up for Dillard was a surprise because they were already set at OT. He isn't even going to start this year for them.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Sorry, didn't mean you specifically even though I quoted you.

I thought Philly's trade up for Dillard was a surprise because they were already set at OT. He isn't even going to start this year for them.
You mean they arent going to play him at guard with the plans of making him a tackle at some point?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
That's assuming the Texans had Dillard rated higher... you know OB values the run game that Dillard may be lacking in.
Which is why I'm really excited about the new meat on the interior OL. JMO, but if we can't run on 3rd & short, it doesn't really matter who your tackles are. We'd be one dimensional before the game even started.

Hopefully we'll be able to convert short yardage on the ground which will open the playbook up in those situations leading to more conversions.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So what about the other supposed better tackles we could've taken before Howard. Taylor, Ford etc...anyone checked them out?
Agreed. They should have traded up to eight & draft Jonah Williams.



:kitten:
That guy is already out for the season with a jacked up shoulder.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Sorry, didn't mean you specifically even though I quoted you.

I thought Philly's trade up for Dillard was a surprise because they were already set at OT. He isn't even going to start this year for them.
The Texans were probably also surprised
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The Packer broadcasters the other night spent a lot of time giving accolades to the Texans ability to stop the run. They also complained loudly about their own D being not able to stop the Texans run game. Even to the point of saying that’s got to be a focus in upcoming practices and they don’t care if it is first, second, or third team you have to stop the run game. On that last Texans TD drive they even made the comment that the Texans run game is what started to open up their passing routes. Couldn’t tell from this forum, however. Edit. Texans averaged over 4 ypc.
Did they have comments on the Texans pass-pro ?
I'm glad to hear they were impressed by our run-locking but which if any did they identify in the Oline as playing well.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Tweet from @riversmccown: First drive, first run play, holding on Tytus Howard. He's combo-blocking, delivers hands to the face, and then he just dives on the defender. https://t.co/2IAsls8B5T

Tweet from @riversmccown: Jordan Akins not exactly covering himself in glory as a run blocker either. If you're trying to make a move up the depth chart it's probably gotta be better than this. https://t.co/jjosOMMhHv

Tweet from @riversmccown: The 2017 Matt Kalil staggered kickstep where he pushes off the ground so hard that he has no choice but to be off-balance on step two is still there, it just wasn't on any lowlight reel plays.

Tweet from @riversmccown: ☑ Pull 71
☑ Have the center and the running back completely fail to pick up the guy 71 left.
☑ 71 watches the linebacker go right by him anyway.

71 think he's running a different play here? https://t.co/RQVchiBWN7


Tweet from @riversmccown: Tytus Howard gets bulled by Tyler Lancaster, pushed into Webb's pocket, forces a scramble. https://t.co/CGEqytlTC7

Tweet from @riversmccown: Pretty sure Khalil got away with a hold here and still gave up pressure.

I'm one series into this game and feel like Joe Webb donated his body to science. https://t.co/weeyszL2qO

Tweet from @riversmccown: On the down side, we've got this chop block attempt by Akins and Henderson losing his man.

But on the plus side, we learned that Joe Webb can pull, which might be necessary sometime this season. https://t.co/7nPPwZEHSw
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Not really, Dillard did well but again, pre-season and the guy he across from in that clip is LaTroy Lewis, remember him. The other person he was matched up against was number 44 Kamalei Correa, better than Lewis, that's not saying much, but still not exactly lighting the world on fire considering he's logged 3.5 sacks in his NFL career and one was against us last year. How about we actually see him in a real game against starters before we declare him to be so great. Not saying he won't be but man people around here are reading way to much into all these pre-season games.
I suspect Tytus was going against equally unimpressive opponents ?
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Did they have comments on the Texans pass-pro ?
I'm glad to hear they were impressed by our run-locking but which if any did they identify in the Oline as playing well.
I can’t remember anything specific. Naturally most was all Packers which made the run game-accolades on both sides of the ball interesting. Didn’t seem like they knew anything about any of our players. For example they said Webb is an OK QB but they need to find another backup not seeming to know about McCarron. But they did harp on their run D.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Tweet from @riversmccown: Important to draft new offensive linemen early and teach them the fundamentals of NFL football, such as:
1) Turning your back to the line of scrimmage
and
2) Getting to the next level and blocking nobody (71) https://t.co/BF3YHAPT5n
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Tweet from @riversmccown: First drive, first run play, holding on Tytus Howard. He's combo-blocking, delivers hands to the face, and then he just dives on the defender. https://t.co/2IAsls8B5T

Tweet from @riversmccown: Jordan Akins not exactly covering himself in glory as a run blocker either. If you're trying to make a move up the depth chart it's probably gotta be better than this. https://t.co/jjosOMMhHv

Tweet from @riversmccown: The 2017 Matt Kalil staggered kickstep where he pushes off the ground so hard that he has no choice but to be off-balance on step two is still there, it just wasn't on any lowlight reel plays.

Tweet from @riversmccown: ☑ Pull 71
☑ Have the center and the running back completely fail to pick up the guy 71 left.
☑ 71 watches the linebacker go right by him anyway.

71 think he's running a different play here? https://t.co/RQVchiBWN7


Tweet from @riversmccown: Tytus Howard gets bulled by Tyler Lancaster, pushed into Webb's pocket, forces a scramble. https://t.co/CGEqytlTC7

Tweet from @riversmccown: Pretty sure Khalil got away with a hold here and still gave up pressure.

I'm one series into this game and feel like Joe Webb donated his body to science. https://t.co/weeyszL2qO

Tweet from @riversmccown: On the down side, we've got this chop block attempt by Akins and Henderson losing his man.

But on the plus side, we learned that Joe Webb can pull, which might be necessary sometime this season. https://t.co/7nPPwZEHSw
Wonder what the other 500 tweets said?
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Wonder what the other 500 tweets said?
Tweet from @riversmccown: I think he's been set up to fail. I don't take joy in watching him not play well, but he's a small-school tackle being asked to play NFL guard and tackle at the same time.

Also, if you aren't ready at tackle Matt Khalil plays. Fans want you to be good right away. It sucks! https://twitter.com/janwar130/status/1161033535668379648

Tweet from @riversmccown: @janwar130 Yes.

I don't think that Tytus Howard is a clean LT projection either way. He's a tools kid who has the talent to play there, but you can't bank on that.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I've waffled on signing William's. I certainly would not be down on the signing.

But the franchise, I believe, is wanting to build through the draft. If this is the case, then you have to trust your decisions of draft picks. Signing William's invalidates the signing of Rankin, who was picked to play on the left side either tackle or guard, with guard seemingly his best fit.

The way our recent drafts have gone, our OL should be: Howard, Rankin, Fulton, Scharping, Henderson.

Unless you think Rankin can move over to the right to challenge Henderson, signing Williams goes against your draft strategy and delegats a high draft pick to a backup role.

To sign William's, it will probably take next year's 1. This is too high a cost. The most I go is our 2, but I think the team should stick with the OL we have and invest next year's 1 or 2 on a RT, if Henderson doesn't work out.
A first is too high for a seven year probowler, just turned 31 at 2nd most important position? I hope to get him for much less but totally ok if a first. Plus he would play this season protecting Waton a year before whomever we would take in draft 2020. I don't think signing him invalidates Rankin; that would be on Rankin and GM and coaches. I'm not so quick to say Rankin in his second year cannot improve but see him as OG. & backup for a third round while not ideal is tolerable for his year two.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I suspect Tytus was going against equally unimpressive opponents ?
Don’t know, they said he got burned a couple of times towards the end by Rashan Gary, who actually is better than both the Titans guys combined, but he got moved around so much who can really say how well he is doing.

My point, however, had absolutely nothing to do with Howard, didn’t even mention him and for the record I didn’t want him or Dillard with our 1st. My point was everyone declaring Dillard as a great NFL success isn’t looking at the level of players he’s been put up against so far.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Isn't he and friends the equal of us getting five guys from the board and talking about it ? Plus negativity sells so for a guy trying to make a buck . Bottom line is the Texans have some holes to fill and right now they are huge question marks .
McCown, like many others is huge on click-bait. Anyone following him is far from objective
 

banned1976

sleeper mode
Tweet from @riversmccown: First drive, first run play, holding on Tytus Howard. He's combo-blocking, delivers hands to the face, and then he just dives on the defender. https://t.co/2IAsls8B5T

Tweet from @riversmccown: Jordan Akins not exactly covering himself in glory as a run blocker either. If you're trying to make a move up the depth chart it's probably gotta be better than this. https://t.co/jjosOMMhHv

Tweet from @riversmccown: The 2017 Matt Kalil staggered kickstep where he pushes off the ground so hard that he has no choice but to be off-balance on step two is still there, it just wasn't on any lowlight reel plays.

Tweet from @riversmccown: ☑ Pull 71
☑ Have the center and the running back completely fail to pick up the guy 71 left.
☑ 71 watches the linebacker go right by him anyway.

71 think he's running a different play here? https://t.co/RQVchiBWN7


Tweet from @riversmccown: Tytus Howard gets bulled by Tyler Lancaster, pushed into Webb's pocket, forces a scramble. https://t.co/CGEqytlTC7

Tweet from @riversmccown: Pretty sure Khalil got away with a hold here and still gave up pressure.

I'm one series into this game and feel like Joe Webb donated his body to science. https://t.co/weeyszL2qO

Tweet from @riversmccown: On the down side, we've got this chop block attempt by Akins and Henderson losing his man.

But on the plus side, we learned that Joe Webb can pull, which might be necessary sometime this season. https://t.co/7nPPwZEHSw
It reads like a Deadspin preseason team article. Only its not fictitious.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
The Packer broadcasters the other night spent a lot of time giving accolades to the Texans ability to stop the run. They also complained loudly about their own D being not able to stop the Texans run game. Even to the point of saying that’s got to be a focus in upcoming practices and they don’t care if it is first, second, or third team you have to stop the run game. On that last Texans TD drive they even made the comment that the Texans run game is what started to open up their passing routes. Couldn’t tell from this forum, however. Edit. Texans averaged over 4 ypc.
Take out Webb's scrambling and Texans RBs averaged 3.9 for the night. That said, it's hard for anyone to really get in a groove when no one has more than 8 carries. Higdon averaged 4.6 on 8. Jones and Crockett 4.0 each, both with runs over 10 yards, but just 7 and 6 carries respectively.

1st ever professional game and all, but Howard was totally whiffing on the 2nd level on at least a couple of plays I recall. I expect that gets better with more reps so we'll see.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Higdon averaged 4.6 on 8. Jones and Crockett 4.0 each, both with runs over 10 yards, but just 7 and 6 carries respectively.
I liked what I saw out of Crockett in pass pro. Looked like he might be that tough between the tackles runner BO'b seems to be looking for.

I'll be watching him the rest of the preseason.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
Last edited:

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Any stud muffin LT prospects go in the top 6 in the draft . But for every Ogden , Pace , Boselli , and Jones , there's Gallery , Kahlil , and Joeckel . It's a wild guess at best .

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=OL
While I agree with the overall sentiment, I will add that Duane Brown - the best LT this team has ever known, was drafted 3 slots behind where Bill Obrien took Tytus Howard, and Duane Brown never had to play guard.

If the TExans needed guards, and that was their aim, then they completely botched the 2019 draft.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Tweet from @riversmccown: First drive, first run play, holding on Tytus Howard. He's combo-blocking, delivers hands to the face, and then he just dives on the defender. https://t.co/2IAsls8B5T

Tweet from @riversmccown: Jordan Akins not exactly covering himself in glory as a run blocker either. If you're trying to make a move up the depth chart it's probably gotta be better than this. https://t.co/jjosOMMhHv

Tweet from @riversmccown: The 2017 Matt Kalil staggered kickstep where he pushes off the ground so hard that he has no choice but to be off-balance on step two is still there, it just wasn't on any lowlight reel plays.

Tweet from @riversmccown: ☑ Pull 71
☑ Have the center and the running back completely fail to pick up the guy 71 left.
☑ 71 watches the linebacker go right by him anyway.

71 think he's running a different play here? https://t.co/RQVchiBWN7


Tweet from @riversmccown: Tytus Howard gets bulled by Tyler Lancaster, pushed into Webb's pocket, forces a scramble. https://t.co/CGEqytlTC7

Tweet from @riversmccown: Pretty sure Khalil got away with a hold here and still gave up pressure.

I'm one series into this game and feel like Joe Webb donated his body to science. https://t.co/weeyszL2qO

Tweet from @riversmccown: On the down side, we've got this chop block attempt by Akins and Henderson losing his man.

But on the plus side, we learned that Joe Webb can pull, which might be necessary sometime this season. https://t.co/7nPPwZEHSw
I was laughing my ass off watching those shitty high school trap plays. so bad! I feel bad for Tytus at this point, the guy has heart, he's out there trying, but the game is coming at him fast, its unfair to ask him to memorize blocking assignments for two positions at the NFL level facing the ridiculous amount of exotic defenses he will see. That was just the first game against a team who isnt even really that good at defense.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
While I agree with the overall sentiment, I will add that Duane Brown - the best LT this team has ever known, was drafted 3 slots behind where Bill Obrien took Tytus Howard, and Duane Brown never had to play guard.

If the TExans needed guards, and that was their aim, then they completely botched the 2019 draft.
So because DBrown never had to do it, it is the wrong thing to do with Howard? Every player is different. How about we go through more than one pre-season game before determining that his career has been ruined.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I was laughing my ass off watching those shitty high school trap plays. so bad! I feel bad for Tytus at this point, the guy has heart, he's out there trying, but the game is coming at him fast, its unfair to ask him to memorize blocking assignments for two positions at the NFL level facing the ridiculous amount of exotic defenses he will see. That was just the first game against a team who isnt even really that good at defense.
Forbes disagrees

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/robreischel/2019/04/29/the-green-bay-packers-defense-looks-like-a-top-10-outfit/amp/
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
So because DBrown never had to do it, it is the wrong thing to do with Howard? Every player is different. How about we go through more than one pre-season game before determining that his career has been ruined.
How's that working out for Howard? Hmm. Dillard seems to be playing great HMM. Maybe not having to learn a new position, a new technique, a thousand different blocking assignment helps. Who would have known!

Point is if offensive guard was designated as positions to improve the team could have drafted BETTER guards LATER in the draft and selected the best skill player available (CB) instead of project tackle, who needs to suck at guard first before we can figure out if he will suck at tackle. Nobody is saying his career is ruined. I see skill when he is tasked with playing the position he has played ALL HIS LIFE!! If this team keeps moving him back and forth then I can see his confidence slide and ultimately flaming out.

What is the benefit of playing guard first since you seem to hold it in high regard? Reps? Its a completely different position, with physical needs and techniques COMPLETELY different from playing tackle. Asking a D2 rookie to come in and learn both positions is folly.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
If the TExans needed guards, and that was their aim, then they completely botched the 2019 draft.
Yes if that's case they certainly did mishandle or mismanage the first round pick but I got NP with using a late second round pick
on a quality interior Olineman (G/C), except the last time the Texans used a second round pick on a guard it involved the X-man and we know that was a bust.
Jeez lets hope the intent for Howard is not to play guard.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Yes if that's case they certainly did mishandle or mismanage the first round pick but I got NP with using a late second round pick
on a quality interior Olineman (G/C), except the last time the Texans used a second round pick on a guard it involved the X-man and we know that was a bust.
Jeez lets hope the intent for Howard is not to play guard.

Point about the bad draft strategy was that they could have taken a CB first or whoever the most dynamic player was at that point and still went ahead and went G/G in the 2nd. Not so much about the positions, just the order of things. They cornered themselves going for need and it bit them in the ass. You cant tell us that you valued a guy in round 1 so highly as a tackle only to realize he's better at guard, and then everyone's all "well im glad we got a starting guard at least" its mismanaged. Interior line guys are plentiful in the mid rounds. Not early in 1 and 2b and if you DO go that route you better get cream of the crop G/C that early. Michael Dieter, Erik McCoy, Elgton Jenkins, Connor McGovern, Cody Ford were all guys who would probably be great guards in the NFL. You could have drafted Deandre Baker, Byron Murphy, or taken a flyer on Montez Sweat with the Clowney situation looming and then addressed your guards and dealt with the bad tackle play next year - it would have been at least a more coordinated attack. So many more constructive things instead of drafting your franchise tackle at 23 then playing him at guard for a year. Same with your 2nd round tackle who should be getting groomed to be the RT of the future. Strange days.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
No, because a few posters here already told us what to think about every and any other tackle not named Dillard.
All those acting like its some kind of strange way for these guys to be broken into the league..here's an update on some of these other potential tackles we could've moved down & taken.

Cody Ford is learning both guard & tackle for the bills....https://www.wivb.com/sports/ford-johnson-among-players-praised-by-mcdermott/

Kaleb McGary - Fairly sure he hasn't even played in preseason this year due to injury. Also about to undergo another heart procedure but has been working with the 2nd team at right tackle.

haven't heard anything on Taylor or Little.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
So because DBrown never had to do it, it is the wrong thing to do with Howard? Every player is different. How about we go through more than one pre-season game before determining that his career has been ruined.
Brown also had Alex Gibbs as a coach . Not sure if Howard gets rotated because of ability or because of coaching . I've seen it done both ways as a way to teach a player how to play the OL . I would draft an OT to play OT and a guard to play guard .
 

Max

Veteran
I think something that's missing in the discussion of starting Howard at G and moving him to T is there's an underlying assumption that after acclimating to G (if he's able to) that he'll be able to transition to T successfully. It's an unknown. It means that we'll be going into a draft looking for a G to take Howards spot still unsure if he's able to handle T duties. If he's not able to transition to T, it means that we should have drafted a T instead of a G. And we're not even sure if we need a G because Rankin may be able to play the position but Howard & Scharping are getting the majority of those looks. We have an ongoing problem of not knowing what players are capable of because they're not getting the looks they need at the right position and unsure of who to draft because we don't even know what our needs are. Get the guys at the position they're supposed to play in from the beginning. Cross train centers and guards. Not guards and tackles.
 
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