Tell me why you think this is?
Then tell me what it means if it didn't.
Then, tell me whether it did or didn't happen. Texans firing all the old scouts. Did it happen?
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Tell me why you think this is?
Then tell me what it means if it didn't.
Then, tell me whether it did or didn't happen. Texans firing all the old scouts. Did it happen?
https://www.chron.com/sports/texans...ss-scouting-execs-Jimmy-Raye-Jon-12873074.php
The Texans were expected to make changes to their personnel department under the leadership new general manager Brian Gaine as he took over for Rick Smith.
One day after the NFL draft concluded, the Texans have dismissed assistant general manager Jimmy Raye III, director of college scouting Jon Carr, assistant director of college scouting Mike Martin, college scouting coordinator Matt Jansen and college scout Seth Turner, according to league sources not authorized to speak publicly. The Texans also let go of Lisa Andrzejewski, an administrative assistant in player personnel, and scouting intern Rory Pommerening.
All were former Smith hires.
Raye was hired as a vice president of player personnel and assistant general manager a year ago following a stint with the Indianapolis Colts as vice president of football operations.
Raye had replaced Gaine when he went to the Buffalo Bills last year as vice president of player personnel. He was previously with the Chargers in San Diego for 17 years.
Shortly after the season, the Texans let go of assistant pro personnel director Larry Wright, senior director of player engagement Sean Washington, pro scout Tolu Lasaki, director of sports science Erik Korem, football operations director Jason Lowrey, who's being sued by a former employee for sexual harassment, and Smith's longtime former secretary, Rita Daniels.
Carr previously replaced now-New York Jets general manager as director of college scouting.
He was previously a national college scout and had been with the team for over a decade.
Martin had also been with the team for over a decade.
He was promoted from college scout to his current position.
Martin was instrumental in recommending and signing undrafted free agents that have included former Pro Bowl running back Arian Foster and Jacksonville Jaguars Pro Bowl cornerback A.J. Bouye and draft picks, including former Texans Pro Bowl offensive tackle Duane Brown.
I wonder if that was the source of the "friction." Obrien wanted to replace everyone and bring in his own scouts.
Not sure why he needed to fire lower level people, but my guess is he would blame that whole staff for the fails of his offense.
(Nevermind that they drafted pretty good on defense).
Unfortunately I don't see any improvement offensively with the new scouts. But we're bigger faster and stronger with more height weight speed.
Also at this point there really are no excuses for O'Brien. He has all his people in there.
I thought you meant all the old scouts. My bad. Next time I'll read between the lines. "All the old scouts" means "a bunch of people in the personnel dept that may or may not have been scouts."
Texansballer74
The Marine
I think he wanted to do it from day 1
Replace the gm/scouts. There was no blame to deflect at that point
The sad thing is .... there are sooo many names to follow "Belichick" before reaching "O'Brien". Far too often, we make half-hearted, kinda-sorta, reluctant-hesitant-reticent, draft selections. Then everyone with the team, every chance they get, blow the bugle and pound the drum, hoping the results become even vaguely true. I doubt if any, or many of us watch Texans 360 or Extra Points, on channel 13. About a week or two ago, they invited Lance Zerlein on to (finally), discuss the draft. About 10 words into his assessment of our offensive lineman choices, Drew Dougherty jumped in and interrupted Lance before he could assert better choices that we could have made. That is what gets me. Regardless of how inept the Texans look, act, or perform .... if the silver lining just isn't there .... paint one !
HaveMercy
Passing Through
First, we really don't know whether it was really time for the fired folks to move along. Were there divided loyalties, grumbling, or an unwillingness to get fully on board with the regime change and revised ways of doing things? If so, then at least some of the fired folks brought this on themselves.
From another perspective, in any business situation, it's typical for the bosses to push blame down to the support staff and subordinates. I've been caught up in that and know that it's very disheartening.
That doesn't necessarily mean that cleaning house is the wrong thing for the organization, though.
Are the folks in charge trying to cover their own incompetence? Maybe, but they probably don't see it that way. They likely think that if they had improvement in the support folks, they could do a better job themselves.
I feel bad for the folks who lost their jobs. But only time will tell if this works to improve organizational results.
From another perspective, in any business situation, it's typical for the bosses to push blame down to the support staff and subordinates. I've been caught up in that and know that it's very disheartening.
That doesn't necessarily mean that cleaning house is the wrong thing for the organization, though.
Are the folks in charge trying to cover their own incompetence? Maybe, but they probably don't see it that way. They likely think that if they had improvement in the support folks, they could do a better job themselves.
I feel bad for the folks who lost their jobs. But only time will tell if this works to improve organizational results.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just like new HCs bring in their guys for their coaching staff, it's common for a new GM to bring some folks in too.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Remember, this was Gaine coming back so he did not just swoop in and whack people, he should have known levels of comeptance, style, loyalty and fit pretty well when he took the job, so not a surprise. Many times I had the weakest link or non aligned leadership member moved off my staff when I got a new job. Focuses the mind and lets your staff know you expect teamwork, professionalism and delivery. Whether we like their decisions or not, this is the first time where I can honestly say there appears a plan and it is being executed, so I respect that. If the plan sucks we are doomed though!
I like this style of mgmt.
only if they can manage to keep the same starting five in the same spots during this time frame (also assuming no bad injuries).
If O'Brien/Devlin are patient enough to do that, then you could be right.
They will find a way to screw it up. They're already playing with their shiny new toys, putting them all over the OL instead of letting them learn at the positions they are most likely to play in the regular season.
Although it's not unheard of for the scouts to be overruled. Probably not a coincidence that we go after guys OBrien meets at the senior bowl or elsewhere
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Scouts are just used for confirmation to the GM who, depending on style, uses them anonymously or brings them to the table equally. In Texans case I agree, think those two sit down (Gaine/O’Brian) assign position coaches to key pro days and have all hands on board @ Senior Bowl and Combine.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Whoa, bass ackwards. The scouts primary role is 1st cut not last. They're the guys who thru the college football season are the initial data gatherers watching, identifying, evaluating & narrowing.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
What part? Report to GM. Some all the way others not. No grey line.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You said "confirmation." That's done at the end of a process. Scouts' primary work is at the beginning.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Confirmation of beginning not end.
My question is: where does that shiny, new offensive coordinator fit in? Did he identify what tools the prospects need for his side of the ball to be successful? Did he have input on setting the draft board?
Or was he stuck with whoever Gaine/O'Brien decided to draft?
Or was he stuck with whoever Gaine/O'Brien decided to draft?
Well he was Obriens graduate assistant at Penn State. Not sure what sort of experience he has to make that kind of input
Pharaohcious
Waterboy
Could we "Trade" for the rookie Jonah now since we have almost EVERYTHING the bengals need including TE?
I propose our 2nd rounder, Lamar Miller and Whitney Mercilus or AJ McCarreon maybe one of the Jordan TEs
for
1st rounder, Jonah Williams, and Germain Pratt
We get an Opportunity to disassociate the thought of Clowney being our only talent to grow the Houston Texans brand in the Carolina region with Germain Pratt and...
We dodge the bullet of our two Tackles Howard and Sharping (who are rumored to not be looking to great) in being our wasted picks and gain a starting Tackle for the future without having to target another Tackle for the 1st round next draft
Not too mention our EXTRA 1st rounder we could use to move up for a GREAT starter like say...
Derrick Brown DT Auburn who is a PLAYMAKER at the Defensive Tackle position and a future HOF i say...
Or if we wanted to go Offensive Linemen...
Andrew Thomas T Georgia who shutdown Josh Allen... Yes, the Josh Allen that fell to the Jags in the 1st round of the 2019 draft!
I propose our 2nd rounder, Lamar Miller and Whitney Mercilus or AJ McCarreon maybe one of the Jordan TEs
for
1st rounder, Jonah Williams, and Germain Pratt
We get an Opportunity to disassociate the thought of Clowney being our only talent to grow the Houston Texans brand in the Carolina region with Germain Pratt and...
We dodge the bullet of our two Tackles Howard and Sharping (who are rumored to not be looking to great) in being our wasted picks and gain a starting Tackle for the future without having to target another Tackle for the 1st round next draft
Not too mention our EXTRA 1st rounder we could use to move up for a GREAT starter like say...
Derrick Brown DT Auburn who is a PLAYMAKER at the Defensive Tackle position and a future HOF i say...
Or if we wanted to go Offensive Linemen...
Andrew Thomas T Georgia who shutdown Josh Allen... Yes, the Josh Allen that fell to the Jags in the 1st round of the 2019 draft!
Pharaohcious
Waterboy
Could we "Trade" for the rookie Jonah now since we have almost EVERYTHING the bengals need including TE?
I propose our 2nd rounder, Lamar Miller and Whitney Mercilus or AJ McCarreon maybe one of the Jordan TEs
for
1st rounder, Jonah Williams, and Germain Pratt
We get an Opportunity to disassociate the thought of Clowney being our only talent to grow the Houston Texans brand in the Carolina region with Germain Pratt and...
We dodge the bullet of our two Tackles Howard and Sharping (who are rumored to not be looking to great) in being our wasted picks and gain a starting Tackle for the future without having to target another Tackle for the 1st round next draft
Not too mention our EXTRA 1st rounder we could use to move up for a GREAT starter like say...
Derrick Brown DT Auburn who is a PLAYMAKER at the Defensive Tackle position and a future HOF i say...
Or if we wanted to go Offensive Linemen...
Andrew Thomas T Georgia who shutdown Josh Allen... Yes, the Josh Allen that fell to the Jags in the 1st round of the 2019 draft!
I propose our 2nd rounder, Lamar Miller and Whitney Mercilus or AJ McCarreon maybe one of the Jordan TEs
for
1st rounder, Jonah Williams, and Germain Pratt
We get an Opportunity to disassociate the thought of Clowney being our only talent to grow the Houston Texans brand in the Carolina region with Germain Pratt and...
We dodge the bullet of our two Tackles Howard and Sharping (who are rumored to not be looking to great) in being our wasted picks and gain a starting Tackle for the future without having to target another Tackle for the 1st round next draft
Not too mention our EXTRA 1st rounder we could use to move up for a GREAT starter like say...
Derrick Brown DT Auburn who is a PLAYMAKER at the Defensive Tackle position and a future HOF i say...
Or if we wanted to go Offensive Linemen...
Andrew Thomas T Georgia who shutdown Josh Allen... Yes, the Josh Allen that fell to the Jags in the 1st round of the 2019 draft!
badboy
Hall of Fame
"
I propose our 2nd rounder, Lamar Miller and Whitney Mercilus or AJ McCarreon maybe one of the Jordan TEs
for
1st rounder, Jonah Williams, and Germain Pratt" I would do that deal even if if all players from Texans included.
wait... what?
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Care to name who started this rumor.
Might want to wait until they at least put on the pads in training camp.
Pharaohcious
Waterboy
Okay I'll wait...
Just stating what I heard transpired in the conversation between Brian Gaine and Cal Mac, that the two tackles were the tipping point for Gainesters employment
Just stating what I heard transpired in the conversation between Brian Gaine and Cal Mac, that the two tackles were the tipping point for Gainesters employment
That the Texans are reaching out to the Redskins lends some credibility to this.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
And if the Texans had drafted Dillard do you think for one minute they wouldn't still be reaching out to the Redskins? They would be dysfunctional if they didn't.
Team will be castigated if the do their due diligence and castigated if they don't.
No satisfying some of the posters here.
I give absolutely no credence to third party hearsay. None. I suspect that very few people know the reason Gaine was dismissed.
If I distrusted / disliked everything Texans I would find another team to support. More likely just quit watching the NFL.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Wholeheartedly agree.And if the Texans had drafted Dillard do you think for one minute they wouldn't still be reaching out to the Redskins? They would be dysfunctional if they didn't.
Team will be castigated if the do their due diligence and castigated if they don't.
No satisfying some of the posters here.
I give absolutely no credence to third party hearsay. None. I suspect that very few people know the reason Gaine was dismissed.
If I distrusted / disliked everything Texans I would find another team to support. More likely just quit watching the NFL.
The negativity around here has me finding my entertainment and anything Texans elsewhere.
Some have already thrown the towel in for 2019 without seeing a single snap of real action.
Smdh.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wtf do some of y'all want, lollipops and 'happy, happy, joy, joy?'
Opinions vary. This isn't a pep squad meeting.
Opinions vary. This isn't a pep squad meeting.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Nah, more often a bs session.
Not too sure who among us want lollipops and happy, happy. joy, joy.
Also not too sure when -"Just stating what I heard transpired in the conversation between Brian Gaine and Cal Mac, that the two tackles were the tipping point for Gainesters employment" -became an opinion.
More like unsubstantiated gossip. Aen't you one of those who demand links and proof. (rhetorical)
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The folks saying the MB is so negative they want to walk away or similar.
I have always thought he screwed up trading up for Dillard and that's why he was fired.
That the Texans preferred Howard is pure bs spin. They reached because OBrien insisted on an OT.
Mclaine even had an article documenting a failed trade up by Gaine but it was deleted (a member here saw it)
After the draft is when the tension with gaine started.
But it's hilarious that gaine gets the blame. As if OBrien wasn't signing off on every pick
Number19
Hall of Fame
Unacceptable? So what are you going to do about it?
Nothing other than talk about how much they suck
I’ve had way too much free time over the past several months, so I’ve listened to a ton of sports talk radio and I’ve read probably 99% of the Texans related articles. I’ve NEVER seen/heard McClain say they bungled a trade for Dillard. I’ve heard directly from McClains mouth, multiple times on various talk shows, that they were never going to take Dillard. The Texan coaching staff met with Howard multiple times over the draft process, he was their guy. You might not like the pick, you might think it was a reach but it seems like you’re promoting a false narrative on this one.
Here’s a clip of Seth Payne quoting Michael Lombardi about Howard
https://sportsradio610.radio.com/me...onfirmed-seth-s-suspicions-about-tytus-howard
Now you can certainly say that 610 is a homer station but Lombardi has no reason to defend the pick of Howard. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable to think that the Texans simply preferred Howard. If Dillard was a can’t miss prospect there’s NO WAY he’d last until 22. According to LZ, who’s got good connections, there was some concern about Dillard being a soft, ie lacking toughness. Not a good trait for a NFL offensive lineman
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Time for training camp to start so we have something constructive to discuss.
Board has become like a family squabble.
Good clip. Thanks for posting. They said a lot I there that should put th8ngs back in perspective about mock drafts, not just Tytus Howard. People want to use mock drafts to grade the drafts, but the draft should be used to grade mock drafts & too many people got it backwards.
The whole point of the mock draft is to try to predict what teams will do, not tell them what they should do. But there is a lot of information teams het that the mocksters don't. They mentioned Juwan Taylor & how no one would have batted an eye if we drafted him at 23, even if someone drafted him at 17. But it's clear every team knew something about Taylor the mocksters didn't.
I understand player rankings & how Howard doesn't line up with the 23rd pick. But the interest in him says 23 was expected.
So the mocks should be graded by the draft. The draft should be graded by history. To truly give a draft grade right now, the mocksters need to dig a little deeper, find out why things didn't go the way they planned, & go from there.
Lombardi brought up the interview thing and said Howard would go between picks 20 and 40. That's definitely lower than Dillard who was more like 10-25.
But this is what McClain wrote:
"There were reports in the national media this week the Texans were trying to trade up from their 23rd spot in the first round to get Washington State left tackle Andre Dillard and that they were shopping outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney. Neither proved to be true."
Neither proved to be true means they didn't actually end up happening. But I think the Texans TRIED to make them happen.