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Rookie Mini-Camp

steelbtexan said:
Your backups should be jack of all trades guys. Kelemete is a perfect example of this kind of player. Not a couple of rookies just getting their feet wet.

It's like BOB didn't learn a damn thing after moving XSF all over the place as a rookie and is insistent on doing the same things with Howard/Scharping. How did that work out for XSF?

This may be on Devlin, but at some point BOB needs to step in and stop Devlin from his own devices.
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It was a few days of rookie mini-camp. As already noted, there is value to understanding how the positions next to you play. How about we jump off this bridge if/when in training camp he has them playing all over the line?
 
Not that I'd really know or understand the nuances of what was going on, but I sure would love to be the proverbial "fly on the wall" that observed how the OLinemen were being coached, how they were responding, and what the coaches had to say among themselves.

Then maybe I'd have a better idea about how things are going.
 
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HaveMercy said:
That's pretty funny. But I can see the reference. There's some big differences, though. Morgan Freeman is better looking, on TV a lot more, and has a bunch more money.
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True but he is not on Texans talk Message Board talking football with us props to you man for your optimism
 
HaveMercy said:
Not that I'd really know or understand the nuances of what was going on, but I sure would love to the proverbial "fly on the wall" that observed how the OLinemen we're being coached, how they were responding, and what the coaches had to say among themselves.

Then maybe I'd have a better idea about how things are going.
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Or you would scream yourself hoarse in frustration.
 
Dejaview said:
Really not worth responding to but I’m bored. Are you saying that instead of drafting a “project” (RT?) at 23 we should trade back twice and what? Fill our roster holes with later round projects? Been doing that for years without trading back. With a strategy like that you actually want fewer choices not more just to lessen the stupidity.
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Not to get between you two squabbling but in my opinion Titus Howard was not drafted to play right tackle but rather left tackle at some point soon. Not saying that I otherwise disagree with your position.
 
steelbtexan said:
Gotta disagree with you there Doc, Dillard will be able to hold his own very quickly. He's played very well against top competition. He's a great athlete and can hold his own while he's learning the ways of the NFL. I predict he will be much improved by week 8 and is a pro ready pass blocker. By yr 2 he should be ready to roll as the Eagles starting LT after Peters is gone. His run blocking will get better. This is how good orgs like the Eagles stay good.

We can only hope Howard is on the same track as Dillard. Howard probably will be the starter in game 1 at LT unless Kalil can come in healthy and play well. (This is what I hope happens) I think the Texans draft and bringing in Kalil says more about what they think of Davenport than any fluff piece Pancakes/Pat puts out.

Kalil playing well, even if it's only for 1/2 a season will be so beneficial for Howard's development. The same goes for Peters/Dillard.
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I don't get your point of view on Khalil many here have posted that he was at best backup Depth and not expected to start; if he starts it is supposed to be a pure bonus. Also, his injury may keep from field for weeks.
 
steelbtexan said:
Gotta disagree with you there Doc, Dillard will be able to hold his own very quickly. He's played very well against top competition. He's a great athlete and can hold his own while he's learning the ways of the NFL. I predict he will be much improved by week 8 and is a pro ready pass blocker. By yr 2 he should be ready to roll as the Eagles starting LT after Peters is gone. His run blocking will get better. This is how good orgs like the Eagles stay good.

We can only hope Howard is on the same track as Dillard. Howard probably will be the starter in game 1 at LT unless Kalil can come in healthy and play well. (This is what I hope happens) I think the Texans draft and bringing in Kalil says more about what they think of Davenport than any fluff piece Pancakes/Pat puts out.

Kalil playing well, even if it's only for 1/2 a season will be so beneficial for Howard's development. The same goes for Peters/Dillard.
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I don't get your point of view on Khalil many here have posted that he was at best backup Depth and not expected to start; if he starts it is supposed to be a pure bonus. Also, his injury may keep from field for weeks.
 
IDEXAN said:
Anything new or revealing in the podcast on Clowneys situation ?
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Mangler said:
I have the same question, as I don’t have the app and don’t really feel like downloading anything right now. Any summary of the important stuff?
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Rough summary................JDC wants to be paid like a top edge RUSHER.............where he has shown himself to be an elite run stopper, he has not proven himself as anywhere close to a top edge rusher, which needs to translate into 12-15 sacks (this could possibly [not definitely] be improved with better secondary play)..............his durablity/knees are too much in question to at this point be offered a break the bank type long-term contract..........he will not be offered a new contract this year............he will play under the tag...............if he chooses to hold out from OTAs and TC or longer, he would likely be cutting his own throat in that it would negatively affect a season that he would be expected to prove himself and improve his value............not felt to be a viable option...........at least not a smart option.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Rough summary................JDC wants to be paid like a top edge RUSHER.............where he has shown himself to be an elite run stopper, he has not proven himself as anywhere close to a top edge rusher, which needs to translate into 12-15 sacks (this could possibly [not definitely] be improved with better secondary play)..............his durablity/knees are too much in question to at this point be offered a break the bank type long-term contract..........he will not be offered a new contract this year............he will play under the tag...............if he chooses to hold out from OTAs and TC or longer, he would likely be cutting his own throat in that it would negatively affect a season that he would be expected to prove himself and improve his value............not felt to be a viable option...........at least not a smart option.
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Well, can't say I disagree. Him holding out equals him screwing himself no doubt. What about the OB/Devlin part? Thanks for the quick recap.
 
Mangler said:
Well, can't say I disagree. Him holding out equals him screwing himself no doubt. What about the OB/Devlin part? Thanks for the quick recap.
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OB thinks very high of Devlin... only asst coach he has shown loyalty to. Devlin hasn't had any talent to work with as a Texan but did show promise with Jets. Jury still out
 
Mangler said:
Well, can't say I disagree. Him holding out equals him screwing himself no doubt. What about the OB/Devlin part? Thanks for the quick recap.
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You don't need an app to listen to the podcast. As far as Devlin, both felt that he hasn't had talent to work with...........those that have left the Texans have either not looked any better with a new team or are out of the League............a lot of the blame was placed on the previous GM leaving the OL "in shambles" the way he did..,.........this is the first year that he will have decent pieces to build on..........Watson holding onto the ball didn't help things.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
You don't need an app to listen to the podcast. As far as Devlin, both felt that he hasn't had talent to work with...........those that have left the Texans have either not looked any better with a new team or are out of the League............a lot of the blame was placed on the previous GM leaving the OL "in shambles" the way he did..,.........this is the first year that he will have decent pieces to build on..........Watson holding onto the ball didn't help things.
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So it was all on Rick Smith. I guess Bill O'Brien didn't have anything to do with those players that were brought in. ( Offensive linemen wise)
 
Texansballer74 said:
So it was all on Rick Smith. I guess Bill O'Brien didn't have anything to do with those players that were brought in. ( Offensive linemen wise)
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Just trying to be argumentative with a podcast from those not here?
 
On the podcast.......one point that was brought out was that Clowney want to be paid like a top edge "defender," yet by PFF, he is only the 3rd best edge defender in his own division.............another point to ponder was that in 3 years in college and 5 years in the NFL, and he has yet to develop any signature move.........to date, he only possesses one move...........a bull rush..............is it a matter of ability or poor effort/study.
 
Texansballer74 said:
So it was all on Rick Smith. I guess Bill O'Brien didn't have anything to do with those players that were brought in. ( Offensive linemen wise)
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This is what Aaron Wilson says is the view inside the organization (obrien, Cal) not what Aaron himself believes.

Basically OBrien is still saving his own ass from getting blame for his crappy offense by blaming rick
 
Do pass rushers really develop their own signature move? I thought that point was goofy.

Clowney has worked hard to get back from injuries, is one of the best if not the best run defenders in the league, and he's a solid pass rusher too. I don't get the work ethic stuff when so many other players on the team are so much worse
 
TheKDog said:
Do pass rushers really develop their own signature move? I thought that point was goofy.

Clowney has worked hard to get back from injuries, is one of the best if not the best run defenders in the league, and he's a solid pass rusher too. I don't get the work ethic stuff when so many other players on the team are so much worse
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Far from goofy. Him being a solid pass rusher has been questioned by many. How many elite pass rushers do you see only able to survive on a bull rush alone?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Far from goofy. Him being a solid pass rusher has been questioned by many. How many elite pass rushers do you see only able to survive on a bull rush alone?
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I agree he's not an elite pass rusher, I was questioning the idea that pash rushers have their own signature move
 
disaacks3 said:
If they don't start, they didn't "fill" the position. That's a fact.
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Right... unless they did something in addition to drafting Howard/Scharping. Which they did. They brought in Kalil.

disaacks3 said:
If Tytus Howard doesn't start THIS year, we wasted pick #23, no matter how he pans out long term.
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I disagree. I understand the thinking, but I can't side with short sided thinking. We're not the Eagles, I get that. We don't have Jason Peters, I get that. But if it is prudent for them to draft a guy in the first they have no intention of starting day 1, or even year 1... it is just as prudent for us to do the same.

We need to fix the LT position. There was only one legit no questions asked day starting LT in this draft & his name wasn't Dillard. Yeah, Dillard probably would start day 1 here. Howard may as well, here. But legit ready to start LTs don't usually make it to 23.

disaacks3 said:
The Texans need to keep Watson upright and unharmed as priority one. Given how horrible the blocking was last year in every phase of the game, if the Texans didn't get guys who could immediately improve the line in both FA and the Draft, they've failed.
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If they didn't. I agree.

Now it's too early to say they didn't. I can say I don't agree with what they've done. But you're right. If our blocking is not better, they failed.
 
With all this focus on the OL the defense has been all but forgotten. Texans are in rebuilding mode and next year their going to put focus back on defense. So many question marks, don’t see a sweeping cohesive balance to this roster. Texans scoring will be up but defensively more challenged to stop a grind it out balanced attack that eats clock, not allowing enough time left to comeback for game winning score. Hope I’m wrong. Better team but worse record, tougher schedule, still going nowhere.
 
Texansballer74 said:
One good year out of how many? Then injury prone since then. Come on Steel, you're acting as if dude been a beast for several years. Bwhahaha
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I'm not acting anything.

He's the best chance they have at getting solid LT play at the beginning of the season.
 
JB said:
They didn't criticize JDC for having a bull rush... just mentioned that was the only move he had
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Ok, I doubt that it's the only move he has. He's not an elite pass rusher, merely a very good one combined with elite run defense

It's dumb for the talking heads to conclude he's lazy. There are many players who are just good rather than elite and they aren't lazy
 
beerlover said:
With all this focus on the OL the defense has been all but forgotten. Texans are in rebuilding mode and next year their going to put focus back on defense. So many question marks, don’t see a sweeping cohesive balance to this roster. Texans scoring will be up but defensively more challenged to stop a grind it out balanced attack that eats clock, not allowing enough time left to comeback for game winning score. Hope I’m wrong. Better team but worse record, tougher schedule, still going nowhere.
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The defense is almost always good under Crennel, not the annual disaster that the offense, ol and playcalling are.

Gaine and Crennel made some smart, young, healthy defensive signings with upside (aka the opposite of Kalil and Seantrel), but the loss of Matthieu and maybe Clowney will be tough to overcome.

Crennel showed last year in Reid how to draft an instant starter. Are any picks this year starters? TBD.

But the list of defensive pickups is solid: Roby (27 and a former first round pick), Gipson (28, solid if unremarkable safety), Boddy-Calhoun (26, good nickel corner who provides depth at multiple positions), Addae (29, longtime box safety for the chargers cut for cap reasons).

Hard to say if those guys add up to a dominant defense but at least you can put a floor on it. These guys have been solid players for a long time and Roby has pro bowl talent
 
badboy said:
Not to get between you two squabbling but in my opinion Titus Howard was not drafted to play right tackle but rather left tackle at some point soon. Not saying that I otherwise disagree with your position.
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I agree. But the OP called him a RT.
 
TheKDog said:
Ok, I doubt that it's the only move he has. He's not an elite pass rusher, merely a very good one combined with elite run defense

It's dumb for the talking heads to conclude he's lazy. There are many players who are just good rather than elite and they aren't lazy
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I don't know where you get the lazy from... did you listen to the podcast?
 
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If they don't start, they didn't "fill" the position. That's a fact.
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thunderkyss said:
Right... unless they did something in addition to drafting Howard/Scharping. Which they did. They brought in Kalil.
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If you're sitting on the bench, you're not filling anything other than a roster spot, you aren't filling a position. Picking up Kalil in FA does nothing to alter their worth as draft picks. As of now, Kalil is nothing more than Boselli 2.0, without having reached the Boselli potential.

If Tytus Howard doesn't start THIS year, we wasted pick #23, no matter how he pans out long term.
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thunderkyss said:
I disagree. I understand the thinking, but I can't side with short sided thinking. We're not the Eagles, I get that. We don't have Jason Peters, I get that. But if it is prudent for them to draft a guy in the first they have no intention of starting day 1, or even year 1... it is just as prudent for us to do the same.
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Unfortunately, we don't have a Jason Peters, we have Julien Davenport. To behave as if we're on equal footing is a fool's errand. What you call short-sighted, I call prudent. We need a starter to protect Watson NOW, or he won't be around to protect when your big-upside LT is finally ready.

thunderkyss said:
We need to fix the LT position. There was only one legit no questions asked day starting LT in this draft & his name wasn't Dillard. Yeah, Dillard probably would start day 1 here. Howard may as well, here. But legit ready to start LTs don't usually make it to 23.
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Does that make Dillard legit then...as he didn't make it past 22? :kitten:

The second OT doesn't usually last until #22, much less 23.
Care to go back and chart how the second OT taken in the draft overall has fared? Has the third been better or worse? How have they looked as rookies?

The Texans need to keep Watson upright and unharmed as priority one. Given how horrible the blocking was last year in every phase of the game, if the Texans didn't get guys who could immediately improve the line in both FA and the Draft, they've failed.
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thunderkyss said:
If they didn't. I agree.

Now it's too early to say they didn't. I can say I don't agree with what they've done. But you're right. If our blocking is not better, they failed.
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Agreed, it's too early. Maybe Kalil makes a complete turnaround and is ready both physically and mentally Day 1. Maybe Davenport makes gigantic strides in year two. Maybe Tytus Howard is not only the real deal, but is ready to go Day 1. Maybe Scharping surprises everyone and displaces a starter by September.

If ANY of the above scenarios happen, I'd be almost giddy. If more than one happens (or God forbid, we actually have quality depth when needed), I'll be ecstatic. Those are some long odds though. Hell, at this point I'd be happy if our max protect percentage falls by 20% or more.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
On the podcast.......one point that was brought out was that Clowney want to be paid like a top edge "defender," yet by PFF, he is only the 3rd best edge defender in his own division.............another point to ponder was that in 3 years in college and 5 years in the NFL, and he has yet to develop any signature move.........to date, he only possesses one move...........a bull rush..............is it a matter of ability or poor effort/study.
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Interesting...If I had to pick one, I'd have said a speed rush.
 
JB said:
I don't know where you get the lazy from... did you listen to the podcast?
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Yes, he said Clowney is either lazy or unathletic, and he's not unathletic.


39:25- questions his work ethic
 
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TheKDog said:
Yes, he said Clowney is either lazy or unathletic, and he's not unathletic.


39:25- questions his work ethic
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I believe that everyone should listen to that part of the podcast to put it in context. Lazy was not ever mentioned. Work ethic was in the context of not putting effort in developing any more moves (expanding his repertoire) over a long period of time..........at the same time of seeking to be paid on the level of elite counterparts that have.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I believe that everyone should listen to that part of the podcast to put it in context. Lazy was not ever mentioned. Work ethic was in the context of not putting effort in developing any more moves (expanding his repertoire) over a long period of time..........at the same time of seeking to be paid on the level of elite counterparts that have.
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Fair enough. He mentioned work ethic and was basically saying lack of work ethic is why he isn't an elite pass rusher. To me that means lazy but people can decide for themselves.

Personally I think he's not an elite pass rusher because it's hard to be one. Maybe there's something about his body or how he moves that prevents him from being elite in that area . But he's still very good at pass rushing.
 
TheKDog said:
Fair enough. He mentioned work ethic and was basically saying lack of work ethic is why he isn't an elite pass rusher. To me that means lazy but people can decide for themselves.

Personally I think he's not an elite pass rusher because it's hard to be one. Maybe there's something about his body or how he moves that prevents him from being elite in that area . But he's still very good at pass rushing.
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Contrary to popular opinion, I don't believe he was brought in to be an 'elite pass rusher' of the Miller/Mercilus type. His forte is a dominant run defender from the edge that also causes match-up nightmares and he is elite at that
 
JB said:
Contrary to popular opinion, I don't believe he was brought in to be an 'elite pass rusher' of the Miller/Mercilus type. His forte is a dominant run defender from the edge that also causes match-up nightmares and he is elite at that
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Yep and maybe they don't want to pay him because it's a passing league now. Or maybe it really is just the knee. I don't think it's work ethic
 
TheKDog said:
Yep and maybe they don't want to pay him because it's a passing league now. Or maybe it really is just the knee. I don't think it's work ethic
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I don't either...I think he would have been called out by JJ if not OB/Weaver/RAC if it was work ethic related...

He's been getting better yearly in the pass rush, perhaps this year he breaks into double digits
 
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