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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Lucky said:
We don't even know if an offer, other than the franchise tender, has been made.
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All we do know is that the Texans in 2018 offered him an extension which he rejected..............we don't know the numbers. We are told that the Texans this year have been negotiating with him for an extension beyond the tag...........but again, we don't know any numbers.
 
TheKDog said:
If the Texans offer is much lower than what some team offers next year it's possible. Texans might not be offering much guaranteed
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'
No, it's not. You can never get a year of your life back
 
JB said:
'
No, it's not. You can never get a year of your life back
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Texans offer $20 mil guaranteed over 5 years

Someone else offering $30 mil guaranteed over 4 years starting next year

Just using random numbers
 
TheKDog said:
Texans offer $20 mil guaranteed over 5 years

Someone else offering $30 mil guaranteed over 4 years starting next year

Just using random numbers
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But he lost $17 mil for sitting out... plus any endorsements
 
JB said:
Totally disagree... he missed out on at least $20M that he will never recoup

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...s-new-star-may-have-lost-by-sitting-out-2018/
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Yeah ok what’s your point? He still got a long term contract with 3 times as much. I don’t understand why this is so difficult for some to understand. If he passes on this one year deal he will still end up with multi year contract next year. If he gambles and is injured he will never get another chance at a long term contract. Do you not understand what he went through in college or after his injury here? That has to weigh heavily on his mind.

It’s easy for you to say it’s worth the gamble. You haven’t had your career almost ended twice. You don’t play in violent game at one of the most violent positions on the field.
 
mussop said:
Yeah ok what’s your point? He still got a long term contract with 3 times as much. I don’t understand why this is so difficult for some to understand. If he passes on this one year deal he will still end up with multi year contract next year. If he gambles and is injured he will never get another chance at a long term contract. Do you not understand what he went through in college or after his injury here? That has to weigh heavily on his mind.

It’s easy for you to say it’s worth the gamble. You haven’t had your career almost ended twice. You don’t play in violent game at one of the most violent positions on the field.
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Thank you!
 
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...he-holdout-worth-it/n6h5h1p8tzno16wlr0lfnwxn8

Interesting read for those that care. Basically, according to this article, Bell is playing in 2019 for the same amount the franchise tag would have paid him and yes he got guaranteed money but it is dependent on not be suspended as well as other protections for the Jets. The contract is NOT loaded front end. Long story short he lost just shy of 15 million no matter how you run the numbers.

Clowney may be different, situation, player and position can all affect it, but for Bell sitting out a year only hurt him money wise.
 
steelbtexan said:
They always manage not value guys like HB the same as SB contenders do.

I wonder if Chiefs might trade a 1st and a 4th this yr and a 2020 2nd for Clowney.

This way the Texans could pull off a comeback Salary Cap comeback win on their way to a Salary Cap championship. BTW, If I thought they would use the cap space I would be for them trading Clowney.

But you know my thoughts about the Texans org on this issue.
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I don't know what the hell they are doing ….

I really don't like the idea of trading Clowney , he is a really good player. Not DPOY / DMVP but a notch or two below that. You aren't likely to replace him with anything close to his production no matter how much money you throw at a player , there just aren't that many as impactful.

This year and next they have Watson for peanuts , then they are gonna have to pay him the big bucks …. 9-13% of the total cap.

Last year they rolled over $18m , currently they have ~$24m in space. Griffin is likely gone freeing up another $2.6m.
IF they were going to keep Clowney , this would have been the year to front load a log term deal. Possible they can do that next year …. especially if they are rolling over the majority of that $26m but beyond that , money is gonna get tight with a good quarterback on his second contract.

Your other edge rusher expires after this season too - Mercilus as does Lamar Miller …. and Colvin's albatross expires too. You also have Fuller as a potential expiring or 5th year option at ~$10m and JJo in the final year of his contract that is dirt cheap by corner standards with a cap hit of $4.3m.


Do we have any indication of what Clowney asked for , number of years , salary per ?
 
paycheck71 said:
I left Houston in 1997, and could never understand McClain hate on this board once I joined.
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McClain is a good reporter …. bit of a homer.

He had to rebuild his contacts in Houston after the Oilers left for Hillbilly Holler. There were a couple years he was on the outside looking in …

He's old … most people cant relate to him but that guy knows more about football than 90% this board … combined. I've had the opportunity to sit down and talk with him a few times …. He's the Encyclopedia Britannica of NFL history.
 
Corrosion said:
McClain is a good reporter …. bit of a homer.

He had to rebuild his contacts in Houston after the Oilers left for Hillbilly Holler. There were a couple years he was on the outside looking in …

He's old … most people cant relate to him but that guy knows more about football than 90% this board … combined. I've had the opportunity to sit down and talk with him a few times …. He's the Encyclopedia Britannica of NFL history.
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He's just terrible at guessing what the Texans are going to do... he has no insider knowledge like he did with the Oilers
 
Lucky said:
I would point out that Clowney has already made over $35 million in his career. Will that make him more likely to sit out a year? Right now, his value on the trade market is higher than prior to the 2019 draft , because the compensation to the Texans would be pushed out to future years. But, Clowney's value to the Texans is high, as they did nothing to procure his replacement.

My solution would be to offer Clowney a one year deal based off market prices, rather than the tag. The top 5 edge players average around $20 million. Give him a deal for $20 mil for $2019. You could tie in a club option for $24 million in 2020. If Clowney performs and remains healthy, that could be spread out to a longer deal. If not, both parties go their separate ways. This seems to be the best way to get Clowney on the field in 2019 and not make the long term decision now on a contract.
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JMO, but four million($20 -16 now) would not get JD's Sig as he wants 3 times your twenty mill. The team already has an option for 2020 at about 20. You are just pushing the four up and adding four to projected 2020 tag. Total of 8 increase for both seasons.. He doesn't want team to, option him that's the problem. I believe Gaines would and probably has offered a two year guarantee with some limitations for injuries/games played but again JMO.
 
Corrosion said:
McClain is a good reporter …. bit of a homer.

He had to rebuild his contacts in Houston after the Oilers left for Hillbilly Holler. There were a couple years he was on the outside looking in …

He's old … most people cant relate to him but that guy knows more about football than 90% this board … combined. I've had the opportunity to sit down and talk with him a few times …. He's the Encyclopedia Britannica of NFL history.[/QUOT. True and if I want football history, love to listen to McClain, but if I want analysis, thoughts on college players or whom team might be interested in, he falls just above Walterfootball.com and way below my other sources.
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Corrosion said:
I don't know what the hell they are doing ….

I really don't like the idea of trading Clowney , he is a really good player. Not DPOY / DMVP but a notch or two below that. You aren't likely to replace him with anything close to his production no matter how much money you throw at a player , there just aren't that many as impactful.

This year and next they have Watson for peanuts , then they are gonna have to pay him the big bucks …. 9-13% of the total cap.

Last year they rolled over $18m , currently they have ~$24m in space. Griffin is likely gone freeing up another $2.6m.
IF they were going to keep Clowney , this would have been the year to front load a log term deal. Possible they can do that next year …. especially if they are rolling over the majority of that $26m but beyond that , money is gonna get tight with a good quarterback on his second contract.

Your other edge rusher expires after this season too - Mercilus as does Lamar Miller …. and Colvin's albatross expires too. You also have Fuller as a potential expiring or 5th year option at ~$10m and JJo in the final year of his contract that is dirt cheap by corner standards with a cap hit of $4.3m.


Do we have any indication of what Clowney asked for , number of years , salary per ?
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Looks like they are being very smart and using risk versus value in keeping Clowney. You are correct in all those expiring deals or cuts that could also include Kelemete, Henderson, Martin and Fulton. I also expect Robey to be gone. My issue are we preparing their replacement? This draft says attempt was made for some of those. UDFAs should impact others. We have at least 4 picks in 2020 top three rounds and at least one should be replacement for Clowney. Watson is under Texans control for three seasons and could be a HOFer or injuries could stop him or any guy for that matter. Money will be there for him. Watt at 32 will play his last year of contract in three years. I don't see him getting astronomical bucks if re-signed. All is well with cap. I just wished all was well with our coaching.
 
I can hear it now season opener, “pay that clown, pay that clown, pay that clown” chanting after his second or third sack of the game and it only gets louder :clown:
 
beerlover said:
I can hear it now season opener, “pay that clown, pay that clown, pay that clown” chanting after his second or third sack of the game and it only gets louder :clown:
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Better the fans chanting than a sharpie and his feet.
 
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badboy said:
Looks like they are being very smart and using risk versus value in keeping Clowney. You are correct in all those expiring deals or cuts that could also include Kelemete, Henderson, Martin and Fulton. I also expect Robey to be gone. My issue are we preparing their replacement? This draft says attempt was made for some of those. UDFAs should impact others. We have at least 4 picks in 2020 top three rounds and at least one should be replacement for Clowney. Watson is under Texans control for three seasons and could be a HOFer or injuries could stop him or any guy for that matter. Money will be there for him. Watt at 32 will play his last year of contract in three years. I don't see him getting astronomical bucks if re-signed. All is well with cap. I just wished all was well with our coaching.
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They have the 2nd most cap space in the NFL. They are in great cap shape at the expense of the on the field product. In fact if they aren't in great cap shape now they never will be.
 
beerlover said:
I can hear it now season opener, “pay that clown, pay that clown, pay that clown” chanting after his second or third sack of the game and it only gets louder :clown:
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If it was his third sack, I'd be doing it too.
Then again, he's never had a 3-sack game in his career, and only had 5 2-sack games period.

I'll take the under.
 
steelbtexan said:
They have the 2nd most cap space in the NFL. They are in great cap shape at the expense of the on the field product. In fact if they aren't in great cap shape now they never will be.
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I like having JDC on the team. As long as it's not long term or an amount that blows our cap, I'd sign him. But I can think short term because I'm not responsible for the ramifications.
 
steelbtexan said:
They have the 2nd most cap space in the NFL. They are in great cap shape at the expense of the on the field product. In fact if they aren't in great cap shape now they never will be.
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I agree that they are in excellent cap space. That is the reason why they are in a strong position regarding Clowney. They can simply franchise tag him (twice if desired) without any problem. This power position can be used to either sign him to a long term deal structured so they can escape it relatively pain-free if needed, or they can utilize an elite athlete on a franchise tag who is determined to prove his worth.
 
dalemurphy said:
I agree that they are in excellent cap space. That is the reason why they are in a strong position regarding Clowney. They can simply franchise tag him (twice if desired) without any problem. This power position can be used to either sign him to a long term deal structured so they can escape it relatively pain-free if needed, or they can utilize an elite athlete on a franchise tag who is determined to prove his worth.
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Hope things work out this way.
 
He hasn't reached a lot of folks high expectations, but he's gone through things that would have made lesser men quit. In spite of it all, he's a very solid player and we've been better with him here.
 
JB said:
But he lost $17 mil for sitting out... plus any endorsements
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Why would he lose endorsements? He'd probably be able to get more commercials & events in if he sits our a year.

Let's say he plays, collects $17M, has a great year & earns a 4 year contract with $60M guaranteed.

Let's say he plays on the tag, gets hurt, same knee ends his playing career. He collected $17M. Lost $60M.

We have no idea if either scenario will play out. But we can make educated guesses.

However, I think Clowney is confident in his knee, a lot more than our members are. I don't think he'll sit out thinking about that knee anymore than Antonio Brown was worried about injury.
 
Has Clowney publicly mentioned whether or not he likes being tagged and if he's considered sitting out?

Well, obv he'd 'rather' have a longer and grander contract so, I guess I'm asking if he's pissed or not.

I haven't read everything in here so, if someone can toss me a quick recap, I'd appreciate it.
 
Sonny said:
Has Clowney publicly mentioned whether or not he likes being tagged and if he's considered sitting out?

Well, obv he'd 'rather' have a longer and grander contract so, I guess I'm asking if he's pissed or not.

I haven't read everything in here so, if someone can toss me a quick recap, I'd appreciate it.
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There has been relative silence on the part of the Texans..........and even more remarkable silence from Clowney's camp.
 
thunderkyss said:
Why would he lose endorsements? He'd probably be able to get more commercials & events in if he sits our a year.

Let's say he plays, collects $17M, has a great year & earns a 4 year contract with $60M guaranteed.

Let's say he plays on the tag, gets hurt, same knee ends his playing career. He collected $17M. Lost $60M.

We have no idea if either scenario will play out. But we can make educated guesses.

However, I think Clowney is confident in his knee, a lot more than our members are. I don't think he'll sit out thinking about that knee anymore than Antonio Brown was worried about injury.
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I too think he will play. He’s never been one to say much anyway. I just see no advantage to him to sit out unless he is a little worried. I’ve never seen a player situation like this one. From the Texans perspective it’s like having a beautiful successful girlfriend...that is HIV positive. There are tremendous forces in opposition here.
 
dalemurphy said:
I agree that they are in excellent cap space. That is the reason why they are in a strong position regarding Clowney. They can simply franchise tag him (twice if desired) without any problem. This power position can be used to either sign him to a long term deal structured so they can escape it relatively pain-free if needed, or they can utilize an elite athlete on a franchise tag who is determined to prove his worth.
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Yes! As I posted long ago, like Clowney and want him here barring a very good trade benefiting team. Texans have upper hand and using it wisely. I'm a player guy but team is ultimately whom I root for. Barring a pick up or two off season is over, time to root for what we have looking forward to T.C.
 
thunderkyss said:
Why would he lose endorsements? He'd probably be able to get more commercials & events in if he sits our a year.

Let's say he plays, collects $17M, has a great year & earns a 4 year contract with $60M guaranteed.

Let's say he plays on the tag, gets hurt, same knee ends his playing career. He collected $17M. Lost $60M.

We have no idea if either scenario will play out. But we can make educated guesses.

However, I think Clowney is confident in his knee, a lot more than our members are. I don't think he'll sit out thinking about that knee anymore than Antonio Brown was worried about injury.
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just to clarify, And knee injury nowhere near JD's history. He wouldn't have had same concerns.
 
mussop said:
And

how much can you get for 1 million dollars?
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It's not that simple.....specifically for Clowney. There are typical standard potential "exclusions" or "limitations" to such "loss of value" insurance policies.:

- Pre-existing injuries or illnesses

- Degenerative conditions

- Osteoarthritis

- Psychological disorders

- Alcohol or illegal substance abuse

- Criminal acts

Most are capped at $3-10 million. Most loss-of-value insurance is written through Lloyd’s of London. At one point in time, I carried a Loyd's loss of value policy on my hands. For football players, Lloyd’s International Specialty Insurance describes the coverage as:
Loss of Value Insurance is a personal accident policy designed to protect a player’s current market value while they play out their final season under their current contract as they head towards free agency. The insurance agrees to protect 50% of a player’s expected next contract against the perils of injury, illness, or death.
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CloakNNNdagger said:
It's not that simple.....specifically for Clowney. There are typical standard potential "exclusions" or "limitations" to such "loss of value" insurance policies.:

- Pre-existing injuries or illnesses

- Degenerative conditions

- Osteoarthritis

- Psychological disorders

- Alcohol or illegal substance abuse

- Criminal acts

Most are capped at $3-10 million. Most loss-of-value insurance is written through Lloyd’s of London. At one point in time, I carried a Loyd's loss of value policy on my hands. For football players, Lloyd’s International Specialty Insurance describes the coverage as:
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So in other words it’s a stupid suggestion?
 
mussop said:
So in other words it’s a stupid suggestion?
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Not a stupid suggestion necessarily. Just probably not the level of long term "protection" that Clowney at this point in time with his injury history feels he is worth. It's like any accident insurance..........based on risk...........the greater the accident history, the more expensive the coverage.........and the more restrictive the coverage.
 
badboy said:
Bunny trail, didn't Lloyds almost go out of business few years ago? IIRC a bankruptcy?
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That was more than a few years ago........~ mid 1990s. That was due to the asbestos debacle........and due to the way Lloyds liability was poorly spread through it's investors. They are now totally restructured (widely distributing risk) so that bankruptcy would virtually be an non-issue.
 
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