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The Bowl next year?

maverick512000 said:
See and that's what I'm talking about, I've never said I consider BoB to be a successful coach. I give him credit where I feel he deserves it but I've done the same for presidents that I didn't like either. Also I compare him to Reid because all season people have been talking about how much of a genius Ried is and I was pointing out that since he got to KC he has not had any more success than BoB did.

Go check out the KC message boards from last year, they were calling for his head just like people are here for BoB and even worse because he had Smith as a QB. It's only after this season that he is a KC hero.

Yeah Reid had success with Philly, so what, the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" group. Ask Philly which they liked more, Reid taking them to the SB or them winning the bowl last year. Willing to bet they'll take winning every time.

Again I don't "see something" other that, for whatever reason, we turned 0-3 to 11-5. I do give him credit for that yes. Also I know that being pissed he is the coach and beating that dead horse is not going to change anything.

Its Cal's world we just pay to watch it. So since I know he is going to be here, yeah I also look at the silver lining and try to see the good with the bad. I find it saves me a lot of stress not being negative all the time about something I watch for entertainment.
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Hey, I would love nothing more than for OB to be successful. But it's been 5 years and I'm still waiting. And I'm not going to make up a bunch of stuff just to give me hope. If he succeeds, great. If he continues the mediocrity of the last 5 years, then I've got a problem with that. Matters not who he's compared to.
 
TheKDog said:
Can we find a stretch of 5 years in a row where offensive coaches led bottom 10 offenses and kept their jobs?
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off the top of my head:

Jeff Fisher - SB appearance
Marvin Lewis
Brian Billick - SB winning HC & author of the 1998 Vikings offense.....pretty sure his offenses in Baltimore were putrid most of his tenure there & its ultimately what got him fired.
Jim Fassel - SB appearance.......
Norv Turner.....I'm sure in 1 of his many stops as a HC he has a stretch in there somewhere

Pretty positve there's more but could your question be anymore biased?...Why don't you just say a stretch of 5 years in a row where an offensive coach led bottom 10 offenses according to my trash DVOA metric & kept their jobs who also wore a cap to every game and coached after the year 2000? That'll narrow it down a little more to who you're clearly trying to single out.

funny thing is :lol: ...even by your trash DVOA metric, your biased question still doesn't include BoB. 32 teams in the league homie...bottom 10 offense finishes 22 & below; Texans finished 20th this year....
 
Mr teX said:
off the top of my head:

Jeff Fisher - SB appearance
Marvin Lewis
Brian Billick - SB winning HC & author of the 1998 Vikings offense.....pretty sure his offenses in Baltimore were putrid most of his tenure there & its ultimately what got him fired.
Jim Fassel - SB appearance.......
Norv Turner.....I'm sure in 1 of his many stops as a HC he has a stretch in there somewhere

Pretty positve there's more but could your question be anymore biased?...Why don't you just say a stretch of 5 years in a row where an offensive coach led bottom 10 offenses according to my trash DVOA metric & kept their jobs who also wore a cap to every game and coached after the year 2000? That'll narrow it down a little more to who you're clearly trying to single out.

funny thing is :lol: ...even by your trash DVOA metric, your biased question still doesn't include BoB. 32 teams in the league homie...bottom 10 offense finishes 22 & below; Texans finished 20th this year....
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So over what 5 years were these offenses terrible? You just threw out names.

Also, if you think DVOA is wrong, then you think the Texans offense has been pretty good the past 5 years?

And congratulations on pointing out my mistake. O'Brien did the amazing job of getting to BOTTOM 12. That is literally the high point of his offense. I stand corrected.
 
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-Jeff Fisher's offense was #5 in 1999 when the team made the super bowl.
-Billick's offense was #3 in 2000 when they won the super bowl
-Fassel's offense was #10 in 2000 when they made the super bowl
-Turner's offense was #7 when SD made the offensive championship game

Marvin Lewis' offensive ranks:
2018- 23
2017- 24
2016- 13
2015- 2
2014- 12

So even Marvin Lewis has shown more than O'Brien has offensively, getting to the top half in the league from 2014-16.
 
TheKDog said:
So over what 5 years were these offenses terrible? You just threw out names.

Also, if you think DVOA is wrong, then you think the Texans offense has been pretty good the past 5 years?

And congratulations on pointing out my mistake. O'Brien did the amazing job of getting to BOTTOM 12. That is literally the high point of his offense. I stand corrected.
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Yeah, you stand corrected alot around here b/c your tunnel vision clearly doesn't allow for any semblance of rationale.

Its not black or white man..Just b/c i'm not jumping on the neg train & saying the offense is god awful in every way possible, does not mean that i believe it was good/great either. CLEARLY there's room for improvement...but as you saw with the SB this year, a dominant offense doesn't = unparalleled success. you keep harping on a top 10 offense....well guess what, 8 of those top 10 offenses were sitting at home with us come the SB...3 of which didn't even make it to the playoffs. Where we disagree....where we've always disagreed is:

- How much of the offense's failures to lay at the feet of BoB vs. the players
- How much talent BoB had to work with at the outset ...........THAT WANTED TO BE HERE
- How far off we are from being dynamic on offense.

The sooner you get that through your head, the better off you'll be.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah, you stand corrected alot around here b/c your tunnel vision clearly doesn't allow for any semblance of rationale.

Its not black or white man..Just b/c i'm not jumping on the neg train & saying the offense is god awful in every way possible, does not mean that i believe it was good/great either. CLEARLY there's room for improvement...but as you saw with the SB this year, a dominant offense doesn't = unparalleled success. you keep harping on a top 10 offense....well guess what, 8 of those top 10 offenses were sitting at home with us come the SB...3 of which didn't even make it to the playoffs. Where we disagree....where we've always disagreed is:

- How much of the offense's failures to lay at the feet of BoB vs. the players
- How much talent BoB had to work with at the outset ...........THAT WANTED TO BE HERE
- How far off we are from being dynamic on offense.

The sooner you get that through your head, the better off you'll be.
Click to expand...

So the offense sucks for 5 years and it's the player's fault. It's complicated. There's a grey area. Not black and white. etc.

There probably has never been a 5 year offensive stretch this bad where the coach survived.
 
TheKDog said:
-Jeff Fisher's offense was #5 in 1999 when the team made the super bowl.
-Billick's offense was #3 in 2000 when they won the super bowl
-Fassel's offense was #10 in 2000 when they made the super bowl
-Turner's offense was #7 when SD made the offensive championship game

Marvin Lewis' offensive ranks:
2018- 23
2017- 24
2016- 13
2015- 2
2014- 12

So even Marvin Lewis has shown more than O'Brien has offensively, getting to the top half in the league from 2014-16.
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Lol...so u switching up now huh? According to YOUR METRIC OF OFFENSE EFFICIENCY DVOA, Brian Billick's offense in 2000 was not #3, it was # 23. I didn't even check the others b/c clearly you're changing up & I'm not doing your research for you dude. The year before that, it was #27. Now, unless i'm reading this chart wrong, you need to find another talking point.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff2000

 
TheKDog said:
So the offense sucks for 5 years and it's the player's fault. It's complicated. There's a grey area. Not black and white. etc.

There probably has never been a 5 year offensive stretch this bad where the coach survived.
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Is it BoB's fault that DW4 missed a wide open Nuk in the end zone in the playoffs against Indy? Is it his fault that Coutee & Fuller can't stay healthy? It's always complicated dude, folks like you just think it can be boiled down to 1 variable b/c that's what you want it to be...That's the definition of bias.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol...so u switching up now huh? According to YOUR METRIC OF OFFENSE EFFICIENCY DVOA, Brian Billick's offense in 2000 was not #3, it was # 23. I didn't even check the others b/c clearly you're changing up & I'm not doing your research for you dude. The year before that, it was #27. Now, unless i'm reading this chart wrong, you need to find another talking point.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff2000
Click to expand...

Ok so there was a coach as bad on offense as Bill O'Brien. All we need is to have one of the greatest defenses of all time to win.
 
Mr teX said:
Is it BoB's fault that DW4 missed a wide open Nuk in the end zone in the playoffs against Indy? Is it his fault that Coutee & Fuller can't stay healthy? It's always complicated dude, folks like you just think it can be boiled down to 1 variable b/c that's what you want it to be...That's the definition of bias.
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No, it's his fault for building a terrible offensive system, being a bad playcaller, and being terrible with timeout, 4th down and challenge flag decisons. Also, these are players he wanted and developed.
 
Speedy said:
Hey, I would love nothing more than for OB to be successful. But it's been 5 years and I'm still waiting. And I'm not going to make up a bunch of stuff just to give me hope. If he succeeds, great. If he continues the mediocrity of the last 5 years, then I've got a problem with that. Matters not who he's compared to.
Click to expand...

I will give you hope, Ricky's gone, Gaine had a better draft class than any Ricky had despite not having 1st or 2nd rd picks. Gaine fixed the ST's in one yr. Gaine BOB despite the limitations on the draft class finished with the 2nd best record in franchise history with Ricky gone Coincidence? I think not.

I'm betting Gaine can fix both the OL/CB positions this offseason and if Fuller can stay healthy a 10-6/11-5 season is possible even with a much harder schedule. The team wont be in the SB next yr because the young guys will need to get a yrs experience before making a SB run. That means this time next yr the same people will be calling for BOB's head and we will be having this same discussion again next offseason.
 
TheKDog said:
No, it's his fault for building a terrible offensive system, being a bad playcaller, and being terrible with timeout, 4th down and challenge flag decisons. Also, these are players he wanted and developed.
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How did his team win 11 games this yr with subpar talent if he was as bad a HC as this post makes him out to be. 5-11 would be more likely than 11-5.
 
steelbtexan said:
I will give you hope, Ricky's gone, Gaine had a better draft class than any Ricky had despite not having 1st or 2nd rd picks. Gaine fixed the ST's in one yr. Gaine BOB despite the limitations on the draft class finished with the 2nd best record in franchise history with Ricky gone Coincidence? I think not.

I'm betting Gaine can fix both the OL/CB positions this offseason and if Fuller can stay healthy a 10-6/11-5 season is possible even with a much harder schedule. The team wont be in the SB next yr because the young guys will need to get a yrs experience before making a SB run. That means this time next yr the same people will be calling for BOB's head and we will be having this same discussion again next offseason.
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Gaine may have fixed ST in 1 year, but ST aren't run by OB, just like the defense isn't. The offense is still run by OB, despite the new "title" of the TE coach.

And Gaine bringing in talent doesn't guarantee OB will utilize that talent. That's also something he has a poor track record of the last 5 years. Gaine got him what looked to be 2 quality TEs and they were barely a part of the offense.

Sorry, but until I see different results from what I've witnessed for 5 years, I don't trust it will get better than the mediocre we've had for those 5 years. If I'm proven wrong then great. That means the Texans are winning and OB is finally learning some stuff, growing. And I don't mean squeaking by sorry teams and collecting a bunch of Ws that way. Beat the Patriots, beat the Saints, beat the Chiefs, don't get embarrassed for a 3rd time in a home playoff game, win a divisional round game. Right now, based on what I've seen, I don't trust any of that gets done.

I do have high hopes for Gaine, but if he's truly "aligned" with OB, that just might be holding him back. OB not only needs to take off the OC hat, he needs to take off the GM hat as well.

Let Gaine do his job, let an OC do their job, and let OB do what he is good at which is keeping his players believing and wanting to play for him.
 
Speedy said:
Gaine may have fixed ST in 1 year, but ST aren't run by OB, just like the defense isn't. The offense is still run by OB, despite the new "title" of the TE coach.

And Gaine bringing in talent doesn't guarantee OB will utilize that talent. That's also something he has a poor track record of the last 5 years. Gaine got him what looked to be 2 quality TEs and they were barely a part of the offense.

Sorry, but until I see different results from what I've witnessed for 5 years, I don't trust it will get better than the mediocre we've had for those 5 years. If I'm proven wrong then great. That means the Texans are winning and OB is finally learning some stuff, growing. And I don't mean squeaking by sorry teams and collecting a bunch of Ws that way. Beat the Patriots, beat the Saints, beat the Chiefs, don't get embarrassed for a 3rd time in a home playoff game, win a divisional round game. Right now, based on what I've seen, I don't trust any of that gets done.

I do have high hopes for Gaine, but if he's truly "aligned" with OB, that just might be holding him back. OB not only needs to take off the OC hat, he needs to take off the GM hat as well.

Let Gaine do his job, let an OC do their job, and let OB do what he is good at which is keeping his players believing and wanting to play for him.
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I've got alot more hope than you do. With the QB's BOB had and you can say he chose them and while I agree, you've gotta tell me who was better they could've gotten at that time. With Watson and an improved OL I expect a much improved offense. Look at the 2017 season when Watson/Fuller/Hopkins were together and fully healthy at the production of the offense and that was with an OL that was just as crappy as the 2018 OL.

The reason the offense wasn't good last yr was

1. Watson was gun shy at the beginning of the yr. He admitted this.
2. Watson was basically a rookie QB last yr and made typical rookie mistakes.
3. Fuller got hurt (Again) and when Gaine tried to provide Watson another weapon (DT) he got hurt too. Hopkins was all Watson had left to throw too.
4. The OL sucked to the point that extra TE's had to be kept in to help the sucky OL and that greatly restricted what the offense could do.

I expect atleast 2 OL to be added in FA/Draft, although I would prefer 3. What I hope doesn't happen is they draft a rookie and keep the IOL and expect Henderson or Davenport to play RT with the other as a reserve along with Mancz. That would be a big fail. IMHO

They also need to find a talented WR either in FA/Draft so when Fuller gets hurt again they will be covered. I do also have high hopes for Vyncent Smith. That dude is a big fast guy who was as raw as raw could be and he got valuable playoff experience last yr. It's completely possible he makes the 2nd yr jump that alot of rookie WR's make. Smith/Drafted WR would give the Texans WR depth that they've never had before.
 
steelbtexan said:
I've got alot more hope than you do. With the QB's BOB had and you can say he chose them and while I agree, you've gotta tell me who was better they could've gotten at that time. With Watson and an improved OL I expect a much improved offense. Look at the 2017 season when Watson/Fuller/Hopkins were together and fully healthy at the production of the offense and that was with an OL that was just as crappy as the 2018 OL.

The reason the offense wasn't good last yr was

1. Watson was gun shy at the beginning of the yr. He admitted this.
2. Watson was basically a rookie QB last yr and made typical rookie mistakes.
3. Fuller got hurt (Again) and when Gaine tried to provide Watson another weapon (DT) he got hurt too. Hopkins was all Watson had left to throw too.
4. The OL sucked to the point that extra TE's had to be kept in to help the sucky OL and that greatly restricted what the offense could do.

I expect atleast 2 OL to be added in FA/Draft, although I would prefer 3. What I hope doesn't happen is they draft a rookie and keep the IOL and expect Henderson or Davenport to play RT with the other as a reserve along with Mancz. That would be a big fail. IMHO

They also need to find a talented WR either in FA/Draft so when Fuller gets hurt again they will be covered. I do also have high hopes for Vyncent Smith. That dude is a big fast guy who was as raw as raw could be and he got valuable playoff experience last yr. It's completely possible he makes the 2nd yr jump that alot of rookie WR's make. Smith/Drafted WR would give the Texans WR depth that they've never had before.
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Texans O could be a completely different animal with Nuk, Fuller and Coutee all healthy.
Even if the oline can reduce the sack count by 15 - 20, those are 15 - 20 less negative plays and more opportunities for positive ones and that is a step in the right direction.
That should be an easily achievable figure.
With a full stable of receivers, a better oline, a more reliable running game and more experience for DW4, I expect a decent step up in our offensive firepower.
 
Texansphan said:
Texans O could be a completely different animal with Nuk, Fuller and Coutee all healthy.
Even if the oline can reduce the sack count by 15 - 20, those are 15 - 20 less negative plays and more opportunities for positive ones and that is a step in the right direction.
That should be an easily achievable figure.
With a full stable of receivers, a better oline, a more reliable running game and more experience for DW4, I expect a big step up in our offensive firepower.
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Yep,

All they have to do is spend the FA/Draft resources to make it happen and I think they will. Hopefully they use what the Colts did last yr as a template.
 
Texansphan said:
I hope Gaine can continue with the good work he showed in the last draft.
Reid was the biggest steal in the draft for mine and I have high hopes for Rankin yet too.
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If he has as much success with higher picks as he had last yr (More talented guys) then the Texans future will be very bright. Moves made this offseason will set the tone for the Gaine/BOB tenure here. Whether that's a long tenure or a short one depends on the talent they acquire. #VERYIMPORTANTOFFSEASON
 
TheKDog said:
KC offensive rank by dvoa under Reid:

2013: 15th
2014: 12th
2015: 6th
2016: 13th
2017: 4th
2018: 1st

Now OBrien:

2014: 21st
2015: 24th
2016: 30th
2017: 24th
2018: 21st
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I see OB has come full circle....just a few tiers below average in the NFL.
 
steelbtexan said:
I've got alot more hope than you do. With the QB's BOB had and you can say he chose them and while I agree, you've gotta tell me who was better they could've gotten at that time. With Watson and an improved OL I expect a much improved offense. Look at the 2017 season when Watson/Fuller/Hopkins were together and fully healthy at the production of the offense and that was with an OL that was just as crappy as the 2018 OL.

The reason the offense wasn't good last yr was

1. Watson was gun shy at the beginning of the yr. He admitted this.
2. Watson was basically a rookie QB last yr and made typical rookie mistakes.
3. Fuller got hurt (Again) and when Gaine tried to provide Watson another weapon (DT) he got hurt too. Hopkins was all Watson had left to throw too.
4. The OL sucked to the point that extra TE's had to be kept in to help the sucky OL and that greatly restricted what the offense could do.

I expect atleast 2 OL to be added in FA/Draft, although I would prefer 3. What I hope doesn't happen is they draft a rookie and keep the IOL and expect Henderson or Davenport to play RT with the other as a reserve along with Mancz. That would be a big fail. IMHO

They also need to find a talented WR either in FA/Draft so when Fuller gets hurt again they will be covered. I do also have high hopes for Vyncent Smith. That dude is a big fast guy who was as raw as raw could be and he got valuable playoff experience last yr. It's completely possible he makes the 2nd yr jump that alot of rookie WR's make. Smith/Drafted WR would give the Texans WR depth that they've never had before.
Click to expand...

The Texans OL has sucked for 5 years, while getting worse each and every year. Now, RS does get some of the blame for this hot mess but OB shoulders some of the blame as well. As bad as the OL has been, he's never come out and stated that the OL must be improved during the off-season or leading up to the draft. Most organizations would've fired their HC after this mess continued into the 3rd and 4th season. OB has coached under a very forgiving ownership.

He's still holding onto Devlin which confounds the shite out of me. He's finally promoted someone to OC but the appointee isn't a successful veteran, just a lacky from the ranks that won't pushback.....so OB is still the OC or better yet OZ, pulling the strings from behind the curtain.

I think Gaine is going to deliver both FA and draft talent to OB this season....failure to deliver could be the final straw for OB. I hope he proves the majority of us wrong.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The Texans OL has sucked for 5 years, while getting worse each and every year. Now, RS does get some of the blame for this hot mess but OB shoulders some of the blame as well. As bad as the OL has been, he's never come out and stated that the OL must be improved during the off-season or leading up to the draft. Most organizations would've fired their HC after this mess continued into the 3rd and 4th season. OB has coached under a very forgiving ownership.

He's still holding onto Devlin which confounds the shite out of me. He's finally promoted someone to OC but the appointee isn't a successful veteran, just a lacky from the ranks that won't pushback.....so OB is still the OC or better yet OZ, pulling the strings from behind the curtain.

I think Gaine is going to deliver both FA and draft talent to OB this season....failure to deliver could be the final straw for OB. I hope he proves the majority of us wrong.
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The former GM isn't being brought back after 12 years. So there has been change.

Agreed about Devlin.

BOB put a guy in charge that knows his offennse even if we fans don't know what his offennse is. I'm willing to give the new guy a chance before condemning him as a failure.
 
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Today on Get Up!, Dan Graziano shares his bold predictions for the 2019 NFL season. He likes the Texans to sign Le'Veon Bell to a huge deal, and end up playing the Saints in the Super Bowl.


 
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