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Injury Thread

CloakNNNdagger said:
For the most part, you are correct as to most of my post being applicable to most NFL teams. However, the Texans have been more consistent in having players play when they definitely shouldn't..........just like with Clowney after his initial meniscus tear.....saying that continuing to play on it won't make things worse.
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So as Clowney nears the end of his 5th season in the NFL, what's your assessment of his career givin his injury history ? Better than what you might have expected
at one time ?
 
IDEXAN said:
So as Clowney nears the end of his 5th season in the NFL, what's your assessment of his career givin his injury history ? Better than what you might have expected
at one time ?
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Yes, but I would not push luck and extend him to any longer than 1 year terms (franchise or otherwise)........or better yet hope that someone with blinders to the realistic future wants to play Russian roulette and gives us a good trade.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Yes, but I would not push luck and extend him to any longer than 1 year terms (franchise or otherwise)........or better yet hope that someone with blinders to the realistic future wants to play Russian roulette and gives us a good trade.
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Sage advice C&D and lets hope that one Mr Gaine also possesses your wisdom on this matter.
 
Maybe someone on Kirby reads this forum and is as impressed with C&D knowledge and injury analysis as we are, maybe even as outside consultant for the Texans?

They need some serious checks and balances to address player prognosis, treatment, repair and rehabilitation to maximize player health and career as Texans.
 
I wonder how much correlation or data there is to support the notion that injuries have gone up as practice contact has gone down?

If all week you're just whistling through the wheatfields and then you get clobbered on Sunday wouldn't it be more of a shock to your body and possible injury cause compared to practicing for those hits during the week?
 
Uncle Rico said:
I wonder how much correlation or data there is to support the notion that injuries have gone up as practice contact has gone down?

If all week you're just whistling through the wheatfields and then you get clobbered on Sunday wouldn't it be more of a shock to your body and possible injury cause compared to practicing for those hits during the week?
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especially soft tissue as muscles that haven't been stressed become abused suddenly
 
Uncle Rico said:
I wonder how much correlation or data there is to support the notion that injuries have gone up as practice contact has gone down?

If all week you're just whistling through the wheatfields and then you get clobbered on Sunday wouldn't it be more of a shock to your body and possible injury cause compared to practicing for those hits during the week?
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Sure, but that would have to be balanced out by reduced injuries in practice. Seems like the data is out there.
 
A 2017 article by FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS. Keep in mind that injuries in general may only be creeping up over the years, but severely limiting non contact practices following the CBA was purportedly to drastically DROP injury rates. That certainly hasn't happened. This article excludes the offseason/preseason, but it is certainly evident that injury rates during those periods have shown no inkling of decrease...........despite the fact that instead of 2-a-day contact practices being the pre CBA norm in both these periods and the regular season...............there has been continued increase in injuries.........certainly absolutely no decrease in injury numbers (not to mention the unreported/hidden injuries that never see the light of day on the Injury Reports). The 2018 season has continued the trend. There is no doubt that the CBA with its "softened" practice rules and the NFL with its incremental game rules meant to protect players from injuries for the most part have been a miserable failure.

The Truth Behind Rising Injury Rates
 
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What about non contact injuries? Seems like there are more of those nowadays than in the past.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
As relates to D. Thomas, I just remembered that Terrell Suggs ruptured his right Achilles in 2012, then went on to rupture his left Achilles in 2015 (at age 33). He has come back with relatively good performance.
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Would it not be wise to cut Thomas this off season to avoid his $14 m cap hit 2019 considering healing time? An injury settlement of course to cover medical needs. Would you think ability he showed preinjury would encourage both sides to rework an extended but reduced costs deal?
 
badboy said:
Would it not be wise to cut Thomas this off season to avoid his $14 m cap hit 2019 considering healing time? An injury settlement of course to cover medical needs. Would you think ability he showed preinjury would encourage both sides to rework an extended but reduced costs deal?
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Doesn't the player have to acquiesce to an injury settlement? Meanwhile he can't be cut. And why would he acquiesce until ready to attempt to play.
 
badboy said:
Would it not be wise to cut Thomas this off season to avoid his $14 m cap hit 2019 considering healing time? An injury settlement of course to cover medical needs. Would you think ability he showed preinjury would encourage both sides to rework an extended but reduced costs deal?
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There was no way that the Texans were not going to rework any future contract even before the injury occurred. If we could rework a medically friendly contract to technically kick in with real money mid 2019 season (with incentives before then) [rehab should be complete by ~9-10 months], I would try to retain his services through 2020.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
There was no way that the Texans were not going to rework any future contract even before the injury occurred. If we could rework a medically friendly contract to technically kick in with real money mid 2019 season (with incentives before then), I would try to retain his services through 2020.
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Great I think that will occur as good for both sides. A rotation of Fuller and Thomas and another of Carter and Coutee would perhaps with Hopkins give 3 excellent targets for Watson.
 
Hey doc, speaking of Coutee, WTF is wrong with this guy? It’s been hamstring, hamstring, hamstring all fricken season. Is it a torn hamstring that never heals or what? Or is just one of those that can’t stay on the field for any reason? And if you’ve talked about this before, apologizing in advance.
 
Marcus said:
Hey doc, speaking of Coutee, WTF is wrong with this guy? It’s been hamstring, hamstring, hamstring all fricken season. Is it a torn hamstring that never heals or what? Or is just one of those that can’t stay on the field for any reason? And if you’ve talked about this before, apologizing in advance.
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As CnD has pointed out, hamstrings are notorious for being recurrent and chronic if they aren't allowed to fully heal.
 
And doc has said to shelve him until the playoffs when he had his second recurrence. I think the Texans want him healthy for the playoff run, and they have had a bit of luxury as Deandre Carter has shown competency. I still think Keke was a difference maker in round one for the colts. With no tomorrow and a full offf season to rest, I suspect we have a Keke siting this week
 
Marcus said:
Hey doc, speaking of Coutee, WTF is wrong with this guy? It’s been hamstring, hamstring, hamstring all fricken season. Is it a torn hamstring that never heals or what? Or is just one of those that can’t stay on the field for any reason? And if you’ve talked about this before, apologizing in advance.
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As has been alluded to by above posters and my extensive postings on the subject, Coutee initially suffered a severe hamstring tear the 1st week of preseason practice, Aug 3.............he missed the 4 weeks of preseason and 3 weeks of the regular season (7 weeks total)........was brought back and managed to play 3 games before sustaining a retear................missed only 2 weeks and the Bye (3 weeks total)...........when a hamstring re-injury is usually handled with longer rehab than that required after the first.............he made it through 1 game before sustaining his 3rd hamstring tear.............since then, he has missed 5 games.

If he plays next week, which is likely because the Texans will try to pull all stops when playing the Colts, this is still considered a short rehab period for his hamstring injury history this season.............he will undoubtedly return as a high risk for retearing.............we'll all be holding our breaths hoping he makes it through wherever the playoffs take us.
 
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From the Jags Game Day thread during the game:

CloakNNNdagger said:
If he has suffered a hyperextension or dislocation/relocation of his elbow.............and continues playing without a solid brace (like on his other arm), his is risking extending the elbow injury.
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Watt has indeed suffered a right elbow hyperextension. Even with a 'mild" hyperextension, ice, rest, elevation, compression and avoiding elbow movement (sling) for at least several days should be instituted. Watt bypassed most of those measures and immediately returned to play. This is not helpful in recovery from such an injury.............especially when dealing with a shortened week.
 
Insideop said:
I was hoping to see Foreman back in there for a few plays yesterday just to knock off some more "rust" but he wasn't even on the active roster. Guess they feel he's just not "football" ready or in "football shape" to make the plays.
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My feeling is that we will not see Foreman in the playoffs unless Miller is unable to play for some reason................the playoffs are no time to "experiment" with a RB whose potential level of production is poor. It is to be seen, but what we saw in the game he did play in last may be all that we will ever see post Achilles, including in 2019.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
My feeling is that we will not see Foreman in the playoffs unless Miller is unable to play for some reason................the playoffs are no time to "experiment" with a RB whose potential level of production is poor. It is to be seen, but what we saw in the game he did play in last may be all that we will ever see post Achilles, including in 2019.
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Ever since the Demeco Ryans Achilles rupture, I've noticed that its prognosis seems to be more consistent from player to player than any other tissue injury (And I doubt that's due to selective reading since I read all your injury posts). It's a horrible injury for any runningback or linebacker, especially early in a career, but anyone who reads these threads is fortunate that their expectations for Foreman were not set unrealistically.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
From the Jags Game Day thread during the game:



Watt has indeed suffered a right elbow hyperextension. Even with a 'mild" hyperextension, ice, rest, elevation, compression and avoiding elbow movement (sling) for at least several days should be instituted. Watt bypassed most of those measures and immediately returned to play. This is not helpful in recovery from such an injury.............especially when dealing with a shortened week.
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What type of limitations should we expect with watt? Can they give pain killers to lessen his pain
 
amazing80 said:
What type of limitations should we expect with watt? Can they give pain killers to lessen his pain
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Range of motion of his elbow will be limited by inflammation, swelling and pain...........and the brace. He will be treated with antiinflammatories...........most likely Toradol. But with the neighboring acute inflammatory tissue changes, there will also be some weakness involved when pushing, pulling, deflecting and utilizing the swim moves.
 
I suspect that even if Watt's arm was almost severed off at the elbow, he'd go to the side line and get someone to cauterize it with a blow torch, field stitch it back together with kite string and a fishing hook, put some duct tape on it, put a brace on it and get back in the game and keep playing at this time of the year.
 
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JamTex said:
I suspect that even if Watt's arm was almost severed off at the elbow, he'd go to the side line, get someone to cauterize it with a blow torch, duct tape it back together, put a brace on it, get back in the game and keep playing at this time of year.
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This game will be all hands on deck so JJ will play through the pain - probably just a few less snaps.
 
JamTex said:
I suspect that even if Watt's arm was almost severed off at the elbow, he'd go to the side line and get someone to cauterize it with a blow torch, field stitch it back together with kite string and a fishing hook, put some duct tape on it, put a brace on it and get back in the game and keep playing at this time of the year.
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Maybe, but that's what has gotten him into big trouble several times in the past.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Range of motion of his elbow will be limited by inflammation, swelling and pain...........and the brace. He will be treated with antiinflammatories...........most likely Toradol. But with the neighboring acute inflammatory tissue changes, there will also be some weakness involved when pushing, pulling, deflecting and utilizing the swim moves.
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I’ve never heard of Toradol. What is it? Why would it be that as opposed to Naproxen or similar?
 
NitroGSXR said:
I’ve never heard of Toradol (ketorolac). What is it? Why would it be that as opposed to Naproxen or similar?
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It is considered the NFL's miracle antiinflammatory injectable (sometimes oral or even intranasal) drug. No longer are most players pumped with narcotics which are addictive and can leave a player "coo coo" and not alert for game day. Toradol is considered a significantly stronger much more effective alternative for severe pain and severe inflammation than Naproxen. It is a drug that is only given short term for acute conditions rather than chronic long term use.
 
State of the Texans‏@SOTTexans

”It’s doing okay, it will be fine by Saturday.” JJ Watt on his right arm issue. Injured it on Sunday vs Jacksonville and now wearing a sleeve today. #Texans⁠ ⁠



Dv2EsRQVYAEyt77.jpg


10:14 AM - 1 Jan 2019
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
My feeling is that we will not see Foreman in the playoffs unless Miller is unable to play for some reason................the playoffs are no time to "experiment" with a RB whose potential level of production is poor. It is to be seen, but what we saw in the game he did play in last may be all that we will ever see post Achilles, including in 2019.
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I realize this may be the case but I sure hope it isn't. I know "it's football" and that's just the way things go sometimes but I really hate to see someone just starting out in their pro career, and with so much potential, only to have it all end so quickly before their first season is even over (see Charles Spencer)! It's just a sad way to go out and I hope it's not the end for Foreman. Hope he can come back next season 100% and give it another shot!
 
https://footballmaven.io/texans/new...or-the-houston-texans-q-awyu_TpEmVTojkP-ZsWg/

WR Keke Coutee was labeled a full participant to start the week of practice for the Houston Texans.

Houston- The Houston Texans have been waiting patiently for WR Keke Coutee and due to the amount of injuries he has been dealing with his rookie season. The Texans have been playing Coutee's situation close to the vest with his hamstring injury and have kept him inactive rehabbing to get back to the field. Saving him for the playoffs, it appears Coutee will be suiting up for this weekend if he stays on this path heading to the game.

The Texans started their practice week for their playoff game with the Indianapolis Colts with good news as Coutee was a full participant in practice. The Texans conducted a walk through on Tuesday but are still required by the NFL to turn in an injury report and if there was an actual practice, Coutee would have been a full participant. It was his first full participation designation of the season which is a positive sign.
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Need all the help we can get. Would be nice to have an underneath option.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
patrick‏Verified account@PatDStat
O’Brien also adds that Hopkins hasn’t always had a chance to practice this season. Hopkins has been dealing with a foot issue majority of the season and now an ankle issue that he suffered against the Jets late in that game. #Texans

10:00 AM - 1 Jan 2019
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This is that injury thing (name escapes me) that is the same as Sammy Watkins? Must be mild if he is still playing, but substantial risk increase game after game. Is that correct?
 
TexansBull said:
This is that injury thing (name escapes me) that is the same as Sammy Watkins? Must be mild if he is still playing, but substantial risk increase game after game. Is that correct?
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Jones stress fracture. I've posted many posts in this thread about my feeling that this is going on with Hopkins.........and implications. He is apparently handling the pain being fortunate that the fracture has not completed, but would not be surprised if he undergoes surgery in the offseason.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Jones stress fracture. I've posted many posts in this thread about my feeling that this is going on with Hopkins.........and implications. He is apparently handling the pain being fortunate that the fracture has not completed, but would not be surprised if he undergoes surgery in the offseason.
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Didn't JJo have an issue with this early in his career?
 
Hopkins reportedly played through a grade III AC sprain, but said it won't require surgery.

Texans All-Pro wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins wasn't coming off the field Saturday despite a painful shoulder injury.

Hopkins remained in the game despite suffering a Grade 3 AC sprain during the first half of a 21-7 AFC wild-card playoff loss to the Indianapolis Colts at NRG Stadium.
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Link
 
Brisco_County said:
Hopkins reportedly played through a grade III AC sprain, but said it won't require surgery.



Link
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I would seriously question if this was a Grade III AC shoulder separation. He evidently will not undergo surgery (which is not unusual for even a Grade III........if conservative measures after 3 months fail, then he may be looking at the knife). Understand that in the unlikely event that it were a Grade III, ~20% will have associated intraarticular (joint cartilage) pathology with most of these being superior labrum anterior posterior (SLAP) tears. Loss of the AC joint stability would potentially affect the upper extremity strength by its effect on the stabilization of the scapula (shoulder blade). Next, there is potential that the AC joint remains painful, despite nonoperative management. With the demands on an elite athlete like Hopkins, chronic pain in itself could be a real limiting factor.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I would seriously question if this was a Grade III AC shoulder separation. He evidently will not undergo surgery (which is not unusual for even a Grade III........if conservative measures after 3 months fail, then he may be looking at the knife). Understand that in the unlikely event that it were a Grade III, ~20% will have associated intraarticular (joint cartilage) pathology with most of these being superior labrum anterior posterior (SLAP) tears. Loss of the AC joint stability would potentially affect the upper extremity strength by its effect on the stabilization of the scapula (shoulder blade). Next, there is potential that the AC joint remains painful, despite nonoperative management. With the demands on an elite athlete like Hopkins, chronic pain in itself could be a real limiting factor.
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Makes sense. I've never heard of an athlete playing through a full AC separation.
 
Watt underwent surgery on his plateau fracture knee after the end of the season. It has been termed a "successful surgery to clean up an injury that bothered him this past season.".........................code word for removal of damaged articular (joint) cartilage and probably lateral meniscus.

Pertinent, from early posts:

CloakNNNdagger said:
No we don't...........tibial plateau fractures are classified as "TYPE 1, 2, 3, etc." But from the incision placement, the fracture involved the postero-lateral tibial plateau. And because of the open incision, the fracture was at least a little displaced necessitating plate and screw stabilization. A fracture there would involve articular cartilage in a weight-bearing area as well as possibly the lateral meniscus.

Watt has most likely sustained a SchatzkerType 1 or Type 2 fracture.

schatzker-tibial-plateau-fractures.jpg
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TexansBull said:
So why is the articular cartilage important and more concern than the meniscus? I know we were hoping for a grade 1 or 2 but it still sounds like with those grades the articular cartilage was damaged and potentially the meniscus.

Overall - is the grade one and two still positive for him to return at some capacity? Or because there articular damage it turn more severe into a no return scenario?

I know you don’t have a crystal ball, but just in case you do...
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Both are a concern.............and the concern for the immediate future is related to the extent of each/either. Too much meniscus damage.........the knee can demonstrate various levels of instability............with a much higher rate of later degenerative arthritis in a player who undergoes meniscectomy during fracture repair,.. Too much articular damage.............pain and bone on bone with accompanying debility. Just FYI, the arthritis factor is caused mainly by articular cartilage splitting at the point of fracture and joint instability, although direct damage to the articular surface at the time of injury as.studies have shown from 25% to 50% frequency of the need for knee replacement in the future even after well surgically-repaired/stabilized fractures. I doubt that we hear reports any time soon if ever as to the extent of his articular cartilage or meniscus damage.
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Justin Reid will be undergoing wrist surgery soon for injuries sustained during the regular season. No other details have been reported. Since he was able to play with the injury without surgery, it basically makes unlikely a wrist fracture or even a ligament severe enough to subsequently require surgery. As, this is something that is a result of injuries (multiple) to the wrist.What seems most likely is cartilaginous damage which requires arthroscopic debridement (could include debridement of minor frayed ligament. If this is the case, Reid should be able to begin OTAs on time.
 
Texans WR Keke Coutee: 'I'm feeling like myself again'
By Aaron Wilson, Houston Chronicle

Published 10:19 am CST, Thursday, February 14, 2019

***********************************************************************************************

You would certainly expect Coutee to FEEL 100% after resting this amount of time. But until he repeatedly "tests" his hamstring in real game conditions, he will not have any idea of how well his hamstring will hold up. We would all hope that this is the last that he hears from that pesky set of muscles. But realistically, with his history, he is likely to continue to carry signficant risk of reinjury into future seasons.
 
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