Just didn't know if it was that other type of IR where a player can come back before the year is over like Dylan Cole. I do remember hearing/reading somewhere that a team is limited (like 1 or 2 players per season) in the number they can designate for that type of IR. Texans could have used their allotted number already. Is this right or am I just having another "senior moment?"
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Injury Thread
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
Just didn't know if it was that other type of IR where a player can come back before the year is over like Dylan Cole. I do remember hearing/reading somewhere that a team is limited (like 1 or 2 players per season) in the number they can designate for that type of IR. Texans could have used their allotted number already. Is this right or am I just having another "senior moment?"
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
even if he could come back as a designated player from IR, he would not be allowed to practice for at least another six weeks. Then he would need some time to get into game condition. By that time the postseason would almost be over.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Dylan Cole was the only one that was brought back from IR designated. We still have one that we can bring back. Foreman, being taken off of PUP does not count against the IR designated to return limit.
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Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Now I'll be interested to see how he is able to perform. If he sticks, it will be one of those little miracles. I suspect that the contract have been fashioned to make it easy for the Saints to exit without much damage. But definitely good for him.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It appears that the tweet regarding a 2 year deal is not correct.......it appears that the 2 years pertains to his comeback 2 years after his devastating injury.
His contract, in fact, is for 1 year................with a base salary for the remaining 2018 season of a total of $161,471. He becomes a UFA next year. This, at least medically makes more sense. Still I am happy to see Newton have recognition for his truly valiant rehab. Many after such an injury will hardly be able to ever walk normally.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
Newton will need insurance for follow up care and pain management---he must be thrilled to walk to toilet.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Holy crap Carson Wentz with a fractured vertebrae!? If Philly doesn't shut him down they would be dumb right? 2 years in a row for Wentz.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The type of fracture he has sustained is a stress fracture. He has had severe back pain for quite a while and from I have been able to find, he was put through multiple CT scans and MRI which is notoriously inaccurate for stress fractures. Surprisingly, in all that time, they never ran a bone scan, the most accurate test for detecting this type of fracture.......and the very first test I would have run after continued problems after no diagnosis after the first CT scan and MRI. A Vertebral stress fracture does not require surgery, but is much worse than a true fracture in that instead of 6-8 weeks healing, it requires 3-4 months of rest for healing to occur. Wentz is very fortunate not to have the fracture complete and displace while he continued to play. Now that the diagnosis has been made, he should not be on an Injury Report as "Doubtful".................he should be OUT...........for the season.
Would you be willing to SWAG why the Eagles didn't do exactly what you laid out? Where there's smoke, there's fire and these teams have every single modern medical widget you can imagine available. What would be worst case scenario of a completed fracture and displacement during a game?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I can't explain why the Eagles failed to perform a complete algorithm of diagnostic procedures.
The stress fracture Wentz is dealing with is evidently of a lumbar vertebral pars articularis. This fracture is caused by a severe hyperextension of the back.
When pars fractures are detected early, bone healing can occur and the issue can resolve completely without increasing the risk of future back problems. However, if a stress pars fracture fails to heal it can progress to permanent pars fractures on both sides, called Spondylolysis.
When this occurs it can allow the segment to slip forwards over time, but especially with continued brutal trauma sustained by a football player, causing a condition called Spondylolisthesis.
This condition significantly increases the chances of acute or degenerative back conditions, disc herniations, and nerve impingement. When there is a significant forward slip of the vertebral body (high risk in severe football contact ) in severe cases of spondylolisthesis, it often leads to spinal stenosis, nerve compression, pain and neurological (spinal nerve root or spinal cord) injury including temporary or permanent paralysis.
In summary, there is no way I would allow Wentz to continue playing this season.
The stress fracture Wentz is dealing with is evidently of a lumbar vertebral pars articularis. This fracture is caused by a severe hyperextension of the back.
When pars fractures are detected early, bone healing can occur and the issue can resolve completely without increasing the risk of future back problems. However, if a stress pars fracture fails to heal it can progress to permanent pars fractures on both sides, called Spondylolysis.
When this occurs it can allow the segment to slip forwards over time, but especially with continued brutal trauma sustained by a football player, causing a condition called Spondylolisthesis.
This condition significantly increases the chances of acute or degenerative back conditions, disc herniations, and nerve impingement. When there is a significant forward slip of the vertebral body (high risk in severe football contact ) in severe cases of spondylolisthesis, it often leads to spinal stenosis, nerve compression, pain and neurological (spinal nerve root or spinal cord) injury including temporary or permanent paralysis.
In summary, there is no way I would allow Wentz to continue playing this season.
Attachments
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Sadly his pinky injury turned into a compensatory injury in his heart and DeAndre passed away this morning.
EVOLVIST
Kid A
Meh, he was washed up anyway.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
FWIW, O'Brien said the Foreman has had 2 good weeks of practice.........and "There is a possibility D'Onta Foreman could play for the first time this year this week." It would not surprise me that this happens in light of Miller's injury.
So, what is Miller's injury?
Foreman's Achilles injury casts a very large shadow on being Miller's replacement. He might not have another NFL season in him after that. Personally, I'm starting to come around on signing Bell and addressing other needs in the draft.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I slow-mowed the play.............the mechanism of his injury is consistent with a high ankle sprain rather than a run-of-the-mill lateral or medial ankle sprain. Although the Texans have said "his ankle sprain is not serious," I would take that with grain of salt. I don't see him being able to return any time before the playoffs (functionally in any way), if by then........wearing a brace.
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LOL,
Thanks for everything you do Doc.
It's gotta hurt some fans feelings (Not You) that Doc's right about 95% of the time. I hope he's wrong about Miller. With Blue as the main RB I dont see the Texans winning another game this season.
delete
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Cooper suffered a "significant ankle sprain" mid Sept.............he returned designated and was activated mid Nov. This time element tells me that it was a grade III lateral or medial ankle sprain, and not a grade III high ankle sprain. The latter would have been at least a 3 month return to play. His prognosis relative to his injury/surgery is a 90% return to pre-injury performance. His activation time may not have been sufficient for him to regain pre-injury form. His replacement has been on the wrong side of bad on both kick and punt returns this season, except for 2 notable long punt returns...............he has not been used as a WR at all, but the Rams coming onto the playoffs were probably not wanting to rock the boat. Cooper was used as a WR sparingly in 2016 and 2017..............but developed fumbilitis in 2017 (3/1 lost in only 14 targets). would be a player to look at as a returner, but maybe not counting on him this season.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
you got that right
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Wait Mode: D'Onta Foreman Waiting for His Chance to Help the Houston Texans
.........................The door is open but nothing is set in stone for Foreman’s return and there is be no real indication from head coach Bill O’Brien when the second-year running back will return to the field. The Texans welcomed back Foreman to the practice field after the bye week and now over a month of practice time, there has been no defined role for him.
Foreman discussed his situation today and how he is waiting for opportunity to contribute on game days.
“At the end of the day, it’s football,” Foreman said of waiting for his chance. “I’ve been running. Like I said, I’ve had a lot of weeks of practice under me. I’ve done a lot of cutting, a lot of catching the ball. I’ve just got to go put it together. At the end of the day, like I said, I haven’t been tackled, so I know that will be something different for me. Whenever they give me the opportunity to go out there and do what I do, then I feel like I’ll be ready.”
With Foreman returning late in the season and O’Brien protecting his team from unnecessary contact in practice sessions, health is paramount this late in the season. As a running back, Foreman needs that get used to the physicality of the game once again but that will not happen in practice during the week.
“I haven’t been taken to the ground in a while, so I think that will be one thing,” Foreman said of the lack of contact. “Me protecting the football is a big thing, definitely with me not being tackled to the ground in a while. That’s something that I have to look forward to – making sure that I have the ball and do what I do from there.”.............................
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Contact with strong resistance is the only way to test and assess a player following an Achilles repair. It is at that time that most players will prove themselves..............or eventually "fall off the map."
Wait Mode: D'Onta Foreman Waiting for His Chance to Help the Houston Texans
.........................The door is open but nothing is set in stone for Foreman’s return and there is be no real indication from head coach Bill O’Brien when the second-year running back will return to the field. The Texans welcomed back Foreman to the practice field after the bye week and now over a month of practice time, there has been no defined role for him.
Foreman discussed his situation today and how he is waiting for opportunity to contribute on game days.
“At the end of the day, it’s football,” Foreman said of waiting for his chance. “I’ve been running. Like I said, I’ve had a lot of weeks of practice under me. I’ve done a lot of cutting, a lot of catching the ball. I’ve just got to go put it together. At the end of the day, like I said, I haven’t been tackled, so I know that will be something different for me. Whenever they give me the opportunity to go out there and do what I do, then I feel like I’ll be ready.”
With Foreman returning late in the season and O’Brien protecting his team from unnecessary contact in practice sessions, health is paramount this late in the season. As a running back, Foreman needs that get used to the physicality of the game once again but that will not happen in practice during the week.
“I haven’t been taken to the ground in a while, so I think that will be one thing,” Foreman said of the lack of contact. “Me protecting the football is a big thing, definitely with me not being tackled to the ground in a while. That’s something that I have to look forward to – making sure that I have the ball and do what I do from there.”.............................
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Contact with strong resistance is the only way to test and assess a player following an Achilles repair. It is at that time that most players will prove themselves..............or eventually "fall off the map."
This is the week to turn him loose and see what he got's
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
According to Aaron Wilson tweet: Foreman is inching closer toward being active and potentially playing in a game for the first time since he tore his Achilles tendon as a rookie last year against the Arizona Cardinals.
According to Aaron Wilson tweet: Foreman is inching closer toward being active and potentially playing in a game for the first time since he tore his Achilles tendon as a rookie last year against the Arizona Cardinals.
Is there such a thing as an achiiles sprain? Or a mild achilles tear?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Again, sprain or strain = tear (classified as Grade I, II or III)...............muscles and tendons are strained..................ligaments are sprained.
On average, our Achilles tendons function with 20% damage at all times and are constantly going through the tissue repair process. Mild Grade I Achilles strains are reflective of minor fraying called tendinosis (wear and tear degeneration).........appropriate rest and conservative treatment can usually resolve the issue. Grade II (partial gross tear) in an elite athlete (especially RB) will virtually always be surgically repaired. Grade III (complete rupture) in an elite always is always repaired surgically.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Hope so....Miller out so I’m not liking Blue as “the guy” tomorrow
Not meant to be I guess
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I tried to address this here:
http://www.texanstalk.com/posts/2893902/
I hope they allow Miller the time to come back and lessen his risk for re-injury.
http://www.texanstalk.com/posts/2894678/
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
D. Thomas falls into the classic 20% category for sustaining a contralateral Achilles rupture...............he ruptured his right Achilles in 2011.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Man, that's horrible. Really couldn't afford the loss since he seemed to be the only receiver on the roster who knew how to break a route and make himself available to Watson.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
I have a horrendous bad feeling about Miller coming back soon. Without him we're sunk without trace.
It looks like Foreman may need more time before he's up to speed in the running game. He didn't look very good at all today running the ball. Of course I'm not sure how much of what we've been seeing the last few weeks with the running game is on the O-line. They just don't seem to be opening up the holes they were before. How much is coaching/scheme and how much is the lack of talent (both OL and RB) I'm not sure, but they better get it fixed in a hurry if they want to go very far in the playoffs.
They just suck, but injury thread not a place for that discussion
Doc, realistically, what are his chances of ever coming back and playing again at his age?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It's still possible. Excluding RB's, Achilles injuries are still difficult to come back from, but not impossible (Jason Peters, Terrell Suggs, Sherman, Corey Peters, D. Thomas). In total only 14 NFL players have come back from Achilles ruptures since 1992. Athletes that have suffered a 2nd Achilles theoretically would have much more difficult time coming back; and if they would, would have difficulty being able to perform to pre-injury level. Besides D. Thomas, I can't off the top of my head think of another NFL player other than Demeco Ryans who suffered a 2nd Achilles tear..............and we know how that turned out. By the time a 2nd tear occurs, age probably is a significant factor that drives the prognosis.
Just as an aside, those who follow college football have to be aware that over the years there have been quite a few Achilles tears at the Combine and Pro Days as well as in the offseasons and preseasons following the Drafts..............none of these are seen in the numbers when counting NFL roster players that have ruptured their Achilles.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
after he was run out of town Demeco had years of 113 and 127 tackles for Philly before having the 2nd achilles. Unlucky sure, but he was still producing at a high rate when people had already ruled him done. 2nd achilles was just the final nail in the coffin.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Just an additional comment on D. Thomas. I'm not going to entirely rule him out for coming back from his Achilles..........there are not enough NFL examples and followup for 2nd Achilles ruptures to make accurate prognosis for an individual's return. One thing I can say, if they try to bring him back, it better not be before the 9 month postoperative period...........under no circumstances should he be expected to return the beginning of the 2019 season.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
[Just saw your post] Demeco did do relatively well when he changed to another defense and was ~2 years post injury (when those that do come back are at their optimum). The Eagles D system funneled runners inside to the MLB which accounted for the good tackle numbers, but no doubt his lateral mobility was very significantly affected.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The "hip flexor" that was torn was one of the quadriceps muscles (quad), the rectus femoris. From the information I have been able to discern, the original tear involved what is referred to as an intramuscular tendon tear (with the rectus femoris, the tendon extends unusually far into the muscle belly). These type of injuries are notorious to heal extremely slowly.......much slower than a classic muscle belly or musculo-tendinous tear........in terms of months rather than weeks.......and their recurrent rates are accordingly higher.
As Otisbean pointed out, the stresses by the VersaClimber are less on the joints, but much greater on the muscles.........especially so on the quads. Ask anyone that has ever used this machine and they will specifically talk to you about the hard "burn" they get in their quads. No argument, running, then graduating to sprinting is undoubtedly the best rehab for injured quads...........NOT a VersaClimber.
I believe that Webster's rehab, with the above in mind, could have been compromised in several aspects, and encouraged his latest re-injury.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hard to answer that question. My personal thoughts.............The scheme is not likely to be a major contributor to injuries........the execution by the player(s) more likely. The conditioning coaching, medical staff decisions in association with too-eager-to-return players............that are allowed to return too early from "minor" injuries that turn into major ones. Tackling techniques seem to be a recurrent problem........shoulder bumping instead of willingness to wrap up. Keep in mind that the Injury Reports only usually report injuries that are likely to significantly affect the player's ability to play in an upcoming game..........although the rules actually say that injuries are to be reported even if expectations that they will be available on game day............especially so for starters/major players. It is easy to see how minor injuries that go ignored and "unreported," all of a sudden end up be reported when they turn into major ones or compensatory ones during a game. How teams treat these "unreported/unreportable" injuries can have a major effect on a team's ability to stay healthy as the season goes on.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Appreciate all the knowledge and information you bring to the forums Doc - but is this specific piece only applicable to the Texans?
Seems like a wider NFL issue in how they actually treat player safety/injuries as oppossed to what they say about it. It doesn't seem Texans players are injured more often or handled much differently than any other team.
Seems like a wider NFL issue in how they actually treat player safety/injuries as oppossed to what they say about it. It doesn't seem Texans players are injured more often or handled much differently than any other team.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
For the most part, you are correct as to most of my post being applicable to most NFL teams. However, the Texans have been more consistent in having players play when they definitely shouldn't..........just like with Clowney after his initial meniscus tear.....saying that continuing to play on it won't make things worse.