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Will Mike Devlin ever be held accountable?
- Thread starter Mangler
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Should have been gone this year.
What is our OL philosophy? - versatile suck?
What is our OL philosophy? - versatile suck?
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
My guess is that Gaine may have given him a pass for 2018 because of the talent level of his 2017 players. Were any of the guys we cut picked up elsewhere?
That said, I also imagine the leash is short.
That said, I also imagine the leash is short.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You're a generous soul.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
That and our franchise LT pouted and held out to start the season then cried his way out of town mid season.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
What? How could you forget our release of one of the NFL's top OLinemen, Breno Giacomini? His heretofore unappreciated awe-inspiring talent was immediately realized by the Raiders who quickly scooped him up.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
What? How could you forget our release of one of the NFL's top OLinemen, Breno Giacomini? His heretofore unappreciated awe-inspiring talent was immediately realized by the Raiders who quickly scooped him up.
That would be a bad day for Devlin if Giacomini suddenly turns in a Pro Bowl type of season in Las Vegas.
Mangler
Toro de España
I don’t know which would be worse, Giacomini turning in a pro bowl type season for the Raiders, or Suafilo doing just that in Tennessee...
XSF
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Su'a-Filo
delete
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Devlin was trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.
This yr he has at best a bland soup of talent that he's going to tow the company line telling the fans how improved they are. I kinda feel sorry for Devlin because I think Gaine will fix the OL in the draft next yr. But 2 yrs of subpar OL play will mean Devlin will be gone.
In short with the talent level Devlin has been provided, we still dont know how good of an OL coach Devlin is.
Mangler
Toro de España
Right. I’m gonna look up his coaching highlights to see if or why there was reason to believe he’d make our O-line any better. So far it’s been 4 years of absolute garbage. I wish we’d just go back to ZBS!
I'm not really a fan of a straight ZBS. Although I can see the merits of running a ZBS. You can get by with cheaper/less talented OL.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Our OL fundamentals are bad across the board. As far as I’m concerned that’s a direct reflection of the coaching.
Is Devlin a screamer? Real intense? Trying to figure out why they think he’s worth keeping around.
Getting beat Here and there is one thing, but this oline shouldn’t have seen constant regression since OB arrived.
Is Devlin a screamer? Real intense? Trying to figure out why they think he’s worth keeping around.
Getting beat Here and there is one thing, but this oline shouldn’t have seen constant regression since OB arrived.
I will defer to you on fundamentals being bad.
How much of the talent level contributes to the lack of fundamentals.
Give us some examples of bad fundamentals, it's a great learning experience.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Every single man on the line will be able to suck at each of the 5 possible positions and possibly even at blocking TE as well (for extra credit).
Maximum vera-suck-a-tility. If you're not willing to work hard at learning to suck from one end of the line to the other you're not Texans Worthy I guess.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Alright...So, talent is kind of nuanced....
Some players can succeed anywhere and some guys need to be in the right situation.
Some guys are better fits in certain schemes but would suck if they were asked to do something else. Of course, some guys will suck where ever they go.
Sua Filo shouldn't have been as bad as he was. I watched him in college. The guy should have been average at worst. Vrabel has been here and seen the guy up close and his team goes out and signs him. Jeff Allen was thought to be a solid pick up at the time and now he's **** on a stick. Good coaches tend to have some guys develop. Who has developed here under this Oline coaching? Who has gotten better?
And I don't think lack of talent should hinder fundamentals. IMO, fundamentals tend to go when guys haven't had enough reps/they haven't been hammered home enough to make it second nature, guys are nervous, or guys are simply so talented that they just have a unique playing style that they can get away with.
But in fact, I'd say the less talented you are the more the fundamentals matter--The more they should be hammered home.
I'd have to watch some film with you to point out specific things I see happening but just watching the Texans Oline in general post Kubiak (and it's been getting worse) These guys play with a high pad level. This is like basic stuff but if the coach isn't diligent guys will get into bad habits. Another thing I see this guys do a bunch is crossing their feet. I've seen guys standing almost straight up and down with their feet crossed. No base, no balance. Defender can pretty much do anything they want at that point. A lot of football fundamentals aren't natural...That's why you have to work on it and stay on top of what you're doing. It's not a natural thing to do running and moving about and not have your feet cross over one another.
And our Oline is also bad about lunging when they are pass blocking, especially the tackles.
When pre-season starts if I can I'll start a thread and list my opinions on the things the Oline is doing as they happen.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
That happens when an OT has 2 left feet.........2 SLOW left feet........
Mangler
Toro de España
It’s all on the coach then! I know if I took any type of lessson for like 4 years and the coach’s excuse was me having two left feet for me being a lousy dancer, player, etc...I’d fire his ass because he clearly can’t teach worth a damn.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Sorry, but some players are blessed with hopelessly poor footwork that is not able to be corrected no matter how many coaches they go through.
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dwight pugoy
Waterboy
I gave Devlin 0 blame for how the O-line play. In fact I give him credit for extracting close to max potential of all the dudes that played for him.
We really did not have a lot of talent in 2017 0-line.
50% for Bill for not wanting more talent
50% for Rick for not providing any talent
No investment in the O-line and we let people walk to easily.
This new GM seems to be "trying" at least
.
We really did not have a lot of talent in 2017 0-line.
50% for Bill for not wanting more talent
50% for Rick for not providing any talent
No investment in the O-line and we let people walk to easily.
This new GM seems to be "trying" at least
.
shouldn't this "two left feet" thing, as you call it, be revealed during the scouting process? Shouldn't the position coaches who review the reports and college films (or NFL film if this is a F/A) see this and identify this problem?? Seems to me those guys should never land on our roster. I'm with Mangler. It still goes back to the coaches.
Or the guy getting the talent.
Mangler
Toro de España
Maybe the guy getting the talent is getting the talent the coach is asking him for. Someone posted somewhere in here that Giacomini was here on Devlin’s request.
Is it?
Gibbs sure as hell got the guys he wanted/needed from the same Rick Smith you're always whining about.
Maybe Devlin doesn't tell the scouts what to look for.
But first Devlin has to be told what the offense needs from the O-line to make the offense run; ZBS? road graders? stellar pass blocking?
....seems we've had this very same conversation before
Is it?
Gibbs sure as hell got the guys he wanted/needed from the same Rick Smith you're always whining about.
Maybe Devlin doesn't tell the scouts what to look for.
But first Devlin has to be told what the offense needs from the O-line to make the offense run; ZBS? road graders? stellar pass blocking?
....seems we've had this very same conversation before
Seems like OB doesn't know what he wants at Ol.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Seems to me that if an OL coach cannot coach up his personnel....that he evidently feels very strongly about, then how does anyone know if he can actually judge talent? I hope you guys catch my drift, my train of thought just flew out the window when I got interrupted.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
There is a typical hierarchy in choosing Draft picks with most teams.........this may vary some from team to team, but it is there. The scout department does the background footwork and takes it to the GM. The good GM is then expected to do detailed study on those players brought to him (an all year effort), the HC has some input by the time the Draft comes around. If the GM is not closely aligned with his HC, that input can be more of an afterthought. The position coaches comparatively have little input into final decisions, and usually what input comes in at the very end, when most decisions have already been made. The owner may also be a "silent" wild card with anywhere from little word to final word to the only word in decision making.
BTW, the Texans were a fledgling organization when they specifically brought in the guru to establish not only an Oline, but specifically an offensive scheme......the ZBS. Gibbs was not a typical positional coach........he was given virtually total decision making power.
Here is one of many articles that discuss the power structures of teams' Draft processses.
How NFL Teams Really Make Their Draft Picks
Dan PompeiApril 28, 2016
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Is it?
Gibbs sure as hell got the guys he wanted/needed from the same Rick Smith you're always whining about.
Maybe Devlin doesn't tell the scouts what to look for.
But first Devlin has to be told what the offense needs from the O-line to make the offense run; ZBS? road graders? stellar pass blocking?
....seems we've had this very same conversation before
Gibbs wouldn't have come here without full control as run game coordinator and he handpicked his O-Linemen. You get to carry this clout when you're a HOF'er. Devlin doesn't have this type of clout. (rightfully so)
BTW, I'm on board with this being Devlin's last yr down on Kirby.
Read CnD's post above.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
CnD's post is a generality.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No, some people look at specifics.
What kind of specifics are you looking for?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The Texans have said 1000 times over they don't run the typical organization.
It's funny because I saw O'Brien personally coaching these things with the O-Line group from day one. There seems to be some disconnect between "his" coaching and that of his subordinates.
Your first statement illustrates the point I'm trying to make. Kubiak knew he wanted to install the ZBS that was successful in Denver here with the Texans. He went and got Gibbs to carry out that task and let him work his magic.
If O'Brien doesn't trust Devlin to have "full control" over the O-line (isn't that why he was hired??) then why is Devlin still here?
O'Brien had enough "power" to fire Godsey. Why not Devlin? Neither was producing results.
Scooter
Funky
O'Brien dropped half a squad of probowl players and quality starters, installed a coaching staff from Penn St and Patriot rejects with almost zero NFL experience, and has yet to break from that trend. Hell we're lucky that Vrabel was so bad that he got promoted to head coach of the Titans and the only coach who knows what he's doing is back saving our asses. Imagine a Texans world where Vrabel (or another unqualified) was DC instead of Romeo - which compared the rest of the coaching staff isn't much of a stretch. We'd be having 'no win parades' with the Browns. I respect you Steel because you know the game, but you absolutely cannot believe that statement. It's been proven, repeatedly, that O'Brien is head chef and entirely running this sh!t-show.
Oh, and for good measure - he's also the current OC and playcaller.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Devlin was the furthest thing from "inexperienced" or unsuccessful when he was hired in 2015. [SEE PAGE 32 OF THE 2015 Texans Media Guide]
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Devlin has no philosophy. He's jack of all trades and that doesn't work.
Scooter
Funky
My internet is too fubar to open the PDF, but as far as I can tell Devlin was mostly a backup lineman who in his coaching career climbed to line coach during the decline of a formerly strong Jets offensive line. So, a backup offensive lineman who spent his playing and coaching career in transition, elevated to offensive line coach for two seasons before we're lucky enough to grab him. It's a good thing that the Jets weren't complete failures on offense during that time or we'd just look silly.
And the staff has been wildly inexperienced.
And the staff has been wildly inexperienced.
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Then maybe the problem isn't Devlin either
So you really aren't looking for specifics.
I dont believe he was running the show, because if he was Ricky would still be here and BOB would be gone. Good news is we will be able to see what was going on in a couple of yrs. Sad thing is it didn't look like much has changed this offseason, so you may be right.