Bush says he won't work out at NFL combine

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2340038

ATLANTA -- Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush, the former Southern California tailback likely to be the top pick in the 2006 draft, will not work out at the scouting combine sessions this week in Indianapolis, and will wait until the Trojans' annual "pro day" to audition for scouts.
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So I guess we need to look elsewhere since Bush and VY are both scared.

Anybody worth looking at going to work out?

If you have DirecTV watch it on channel 212. I really like Mike Mayock as a draft evaluator. Corey Chavous who has been nice in the past, has really stepped up his game in the draft discussions. Really good insightful stuff. In my opinion no one comes even close to comparision. It is all about football.

thanks.

I have the NFL network, but I have Dish Network. Same thing basically though. Channel 154 for me. I will probably record it to watch later.

I have just as much of a problem with Bush not particpating in the combine as I do Young. I know it might come as a shock to some, but I'm one of those rare birds that have yet to make up my mind yet, as to who should be taken with the 1st overall pick, as if it really mattered of course.

I would like to see how they both perform in the same "unfamilar conditions with unfamiliar players" as the rest of the prospects will have to perform in. And based upon those performances, I would like to read legitimate NFL scouting reports, that are uncolored or untainted by local bias.

And I regard, or to put it better, disregard those "pro days" as nothing more than choreographed PR stunts.

Screw the both of them.

I'm a fence stradler on this one.

Work out or not to work out, that is the question.

I guess given the choice, I'd say no if I was in their shoes.

What scares me about Bush is that he may get his weight logged at the Combine but when his Pro-day cames he may decline to have his weight taken. Thus making me believe he crammed on the pounds for the combine to show he is 200 lbs.+.

Marcus said:

I have just as much of a problem with Bush not particpating in the combine as I do Young. I know it might come as a shock to some, but I'm one of those rare birds that have yet to make up my mind yet, as to who should be taken with the 1st overall pick, as if it really mattered of course.

I would like to see how they both perform in the same "unfamilar conditions with unfamiliar players" as the rest of the prospects will have to perform in. And based upon those performances, I would like to read legitimate NFL scouting reports, that are uncolored or untainted by local bias.

And I regard, or to put it better, disregard those "pro days" as nothing more than choreographed PR stunts.

Screw the both of them.

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I understand completely where both of them are comming from. (Bush and Vince)

Why in the world would Bush work out.......ask yourself why.

Bush is already the consensus #1 ovrl. pick in this draft and by far the #1 prospect at his position, what possibly could he gain by working out at the combine. If he did decide to work out, I'd begin to question his sanity he has nothing to gain and could stand to lose millions.

Vince has nothing to gain by working out either. Teams that will consider taking him either like his game or they don't, no work out he could possibly do at Indy is going to top the performance he put up at the Rose Bowl and its not like he was going to come out at Indy and show off his new orthodox throwing motion.

As he sits right now he is the consensus #2 prospect at his position and personally I think he doesn't mind it one bit. Every time he's asked about where he wants to play he says he would love to play for the Texans, but now he also includes Tennessee, in one interview when asked "what about New Orleans", he kinda chuckled, he wants NO part of New Orleans and I don't blame him. Now back to the combine, if I was him I would want the last bit of film the scouts had on me to be the Rose Bowl, which seems like his plan, which is very smart.

The Combine is so very overated anyway, every year you hear about some guy who comes out of nowhere and blasts his way up the draft because of the numbers he puts up at the combine and then he disapears and has a mediocre career and on the flip side you have players that dominated at the college level, but flop at the combine and they fall significantly in the draft, only to go on and become mid round gems and steals and people wonder where they came from, look at the tape. Thats all I care about is the game film.

The combine is really for draft nerds and while I don't mind it for the only reason, because its has something to do with football during the offseason, I really don't care all that much about it and don't put too much stock into it.

It's not that they are hiding anything. It's that they can't improve thier positin anymore. They are already gonna go in the top 3. If they do workout they risk a bad day, an injury(although unlikely) and maybe a slip or some outside factor that may make them look bad.

Mario Williams, Eric winston, and Nick Mangold are working out so it is worth it to me. Throw in McIntosh and a slew of safties and corners and we have a party. Did any of you expect the big three to work out though. They never really do. Last year was an exception to the rule.

Hulk75 said:

What do these guys have to hide, I dont understand. It is just a workout?

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Its not what they have to hide, but what they have to lose, which is a lot of money and when that much money is on the line it isn't just a workout. These aren't guys sitting on the bubble, needing to make a impression, or needing to seperate from the rest of the pack, they've already done that. Why would they risk millions on something that will have absolutely no effect on their draft status?

Obviously they've been listening to their agents and agents look out for their client's best interest and its obviously in their best interest not to work out, its that simple.

If a innocent man hires hires a lawyer, does that mean he has something to hide, no, he is hiring legal representation to represent him and protect his interests, its pretty much the same thing.

Hulk75 said:

But he is doing it on pro day at USC, I just wanted to see how fast his 40 is sooner than later.

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Pro days are different at a athlete's pro day he doesn't have to compete against hundreds of athletes, and for the attention of scouts against hundreds of athletes. At the start of a pro day scouts are showing up to see "him" and at the end of the day they are left with a lasting impression of "him" and the athlete isn't compaired and judged against other athletes. It really has nothing to do with where the work out takes place, but under what circumstances the the work out takes place.

once again, people are making a deal about nothing. it would be DUMB to go to the combine for these players

I read an interesting article yesterday (not sure if it was on ESPN.com or SI.com) but it was about Jay Cutler and why the scouts love him. It said how Cutler is willing to take on any challenge that he is presented with and doesn't worry about his stock falling if he has a bad combine because he just wants to compete and a lot of scouts and GMs love that about him.

Cutler doesn't have anything to lose the gap between him and the next QB prospect is pretty big.

He actually has something to gain, if he puts up a great performance at the the combine he could leap frog Vince and be a top 3 or 4 pick, he could make alot of money.

If he was in Matt's, of Vince's shoes I don't think he would be working out

Carr Bomb said:

Cutler doesn't have anything to lose the gap between him and the next QB prospect is pretty big.

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exactly. Basically if your stock can't go up you don't participate. If you can improve your stock and give yourself a shot a millions you participate. Bush and Young will both get their millions without participating. This is about money and being smart. Nothing else.

Carr Bomb said:

Pro days are different at a athlete's pro day he doesn't have to compete against hundreds of athletes, and for the attention of scouts against hundreds of athletes. At the start of a pro day scouts are showing up to see "him" and at the end of the day they are left with a lasting impression of "him" and the athlete isn't compaired and judged against other athletes. It really has nothing to do with where the work out takes place, but under what circumstances the the work out takes place.

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Well, at least you agree that "pro days" are nothing but PR stunts. But if they have nothing to gain, but everything to lose . . why even have a pro day?

Marcus said:

Well, at least you agree that "pro days" are nothing but PR stunts. But if they have nothing to gain, but everything to lose . . why even have a pro day?

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because no one has EVER had a bad workout

Marcus said:

why even have a pro day?

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Because they still want to make a good impression, stay hot on the scouts minds, and create buzz around the draft, they don't want to completely fall off the front page. They just want to do it on their terms.

kastofsna said:

because no one has EVER had a bad workout

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Terrell Suggs had a few bad workouts including his pro day. He fell to the Ravens because some doubted his conditioning.

If you're a scout and you need a QB to throw 70-90 passes over the course of a few days at the combine because you haven't been able to get a read on his past few years of game tape, you need to find a different job.

If you think that the player needs to perform at the combine to display his competitive nature, then again, you need to look over his course of work from the past few years...not from this one particular week.

If you're a scout and you think the performance of a particular player at the combine should be used as a good measuring tool to how they project as an NFL player, then you need to find a different job.

It's become such a joke. Player A moves up 25 spots in the draft because he clocks a forty .13 seconds faster than expected and did 3 more reps of 225 than everybody else. Let's dismiss that he failed to make all-conference while playing in the MAC...look at his combine numbers.

In the meantime, 2-time All-American ran a less than spectacular forty and wasn't impressive in his interview because he's not "well spoken". Why take a chance on a player like that? Who cares he dominated the collegiate level for 3 years?

These "scouts" have become too smart for their own good.

Huge said:

If you're a scout and you think the performance of a particular player at the combine should be used as a good measuring tool to how they project as an NFL player, then you need to find a different job.

It's become such a joke. Player A moves up 25 spots in the draft because he clocks a forty .13 seconds faster than expected and did 3 more reps of 225 than everybody else. Let's dismiss that he failed to make all-conference while playing in the MAC...look at his combine numbers.

In the meantime, 2-time All-American ran a less than spectacular forty and wasn't impressive in his interview because he's not "well spoken". Why take a chance on a player like that? Who cares he dominated the collegiate level for 3 years?

These "scouts" have become too smart for their own good.

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Vintage Casserly and Team

Vinny said:

exactly. Basically if your stock can't go up you don't participate. If you can improve your stock and give yourself a shot a millions you participate. Bush and Young will both get their millions without participating. This is about money and being smart. Nothing else.

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I agree 100%, and don't fault any of the top prospects from bowing out of the combine.

If teams can't see what Bush and Young are all about in actual game situations, then a combine won't reveal anything further to them.

Much ado about nothing, indeed.

Kubiak made the comment that he's not that much interested in workouts at the combine anyway. He can watch film to see what a player can do. He is most interested in the interview sessions.

SheTexan said:

Kubiak made the comment that he's not that much interested in workouts at the combine anyway. He can watch film to see what a player can do. He is most interested in the interview sessions.

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Ron Wolf said the two most important aspects of the combine to him is the physical and interview. He said the rest of the combine routines and workouts are unrealistic as they don't have contact, which football is all about. Hit attitude is that he wants young players with good heads on their shoulders (interview) and bodies in good shape with no hidden flaws (physical). Makes sense to me.

Huge said:

If you're a scout and you need a QB to throw 70-90 passes over the course of a few days at the combine because you haven't been able to get a read on his past few years of game tape, you need to find a different job.

If you think that the player needs to perform at the combine to display his competitive nature, then again, you need to look over his course of work from the past few years...not from this one particular week.

If you're a scout and you think the performance of a particular player at the combine should be used as a good measuring tool to how they project as an NFL player, then you need to find a different job.

It's become such a joke. Player A moves up 25 spots in the draft because he clocks a forty .13 seconds faster than expected and did 3 more reps of 225 than everybody else. Let's dismiss that he failed to make all-conference while playing in the MAC...look at his combine numbers.

In the meantime, 2-time All-American ran a less than spectacular forty and wasn't impressive in his interview because he's not "well spoken". Why take a chance on a player like that? Who cares he dominated the collegiate level for 3 years?

These "scouts" have become too smart for their own good.

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Alot of the combine can be broken down into verifying what you've already seen while scouting a player. For instance, if Thomas Howard has a reputation for being a great athlete, I want to see that athleticism out of him . If a guy has question marks about his pure athleticism, I want to see him try and answer them. Trying to judge if a player is "good" or not from the combine isn't something a scout does.

I do agree with you however that some of these guys that shoot up draft boards is somewhat ridiculous.

As far as the interviews, I'd disagree. From the scouts we've spoken to at our site, interviews are the combine for most NFL coaches and GMs. You'd be surprised some of the stories that come out about these kids. If you're making a multi million dollar investment on a kid he better be mentally stable. Hell, I had to take a Wonderlic twice on my last job search. Had a 4 hour interview with Wachovia and a 5 hour interview with another company. Both gave me Wonderlics. They went over my scores right there in front of me. Gave me extensive personality tests. Questioned me afterwards to make sure everything was cool. Brought in a consultant at one interview to "evaluate" me before making an offer. This was all over a $65000 salary to some 23 year old kid they just met. Imagine giving $6.5 million to that same kid. I would have expected days and days of interviews and testing.

What does a Wonderlic have to do with football? Really nothing. It shows your ability to process information and your general intelligence, but I certainly agree with the sentiment that it shouldn't be too heavily weighed upon. Dan Marino scored an 11 on his Wonderlic. Donovan McNabb a 13. Those are two players at the most cerebral position in the NFL that were and have been very successful players. I scored a 36 on mine and didn't even graduate from college. Does that mean I'm smarter then these guys? I don't buy that. Frankly, I do think it's very, very overrated.

thats an excellent rebutle. really as far as most of us are concerned its more for us internet draft junkies without the access to actually meet these prospects, just gives us some inside (but not really) to their mental make-up. I try to focus on the past season specificly and if applicable thier collegiate, sometimes even their high school body of work.

that being said most of us are just fans, for myself I'm having a devil of a time getting that National Championship game out of my draft thinking process. its part of the reason, besides the body of work that has shot Vince Young up to the #1 position, now is that fair? I don't really know, at this point it just seems more important that this city is represented by the home town hero, who clearly in the biggest game showed he is the best player in the nation, the value of the QB position, leadership of a champion and the grace to handle pressure is the stuff of legends.

at this point I don't care if Reggie Bush runs at the combine or Vince Young throws, its a done deal.

well, trying to avoid the bush/young not at the combine debate...

does anyone have numbers for Ko Simpson, Johnathen Joseph, Ray Edwards, Garick McPherson (4.21?) and any other oft. mentioned guys on the board.

I am especially interested in Simpson and Edwards. I hope simpson runs slower than expected and just doesn't test out well, thus allowing him to slip to #33. I want to see if Ray Edwards is able to handle the interviews up to NFL standards. I know he has the physical ability, but I would be interested in his strenght and 10 yard time (do they do that?). If my DE is actually running a 40 yard flat out sprint, thats a great sack and a bad QB.

YoungTexanFan said:

well, trying to avoid the bush/young not at the combine debate...

does anyone have numbers for Ko Simpson, Johnathen Joseph, Ray Edwards, Garick McPherson (4.21?) and any other oft. mentioned guys on the board.

I am especially interested in Simpson and Edwards. I hope simpson runs slower than expected and just doesn't test out well, thus allowing him to slip to #33. I want to see if Ray Edwards is able to handle the interviews up to NFL standards. I know he has the physical ability, but I would be interested in his strenght and 10 yard time (do they do that?). If my DE is actually running a 40 yard flat out sprint, thats a great sack and a bad QB.

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I won't post reported 40 times unless they're from a reputable source, but I'll help you out the best I can.

McPhearson is definitely a fast kid. Has a track background and looks to have a twitch from what I've seen of him. Quick backpedal although, he gets a bit high in it. Looks to have fluid hips.

I'd be a bit wary of Ray Edwards if I were you. He left early because he couldn't get along with the coaching staff at Purdue and his production fell off because he was "unwilling to learn their new scheme" this year.

I'm still watching alot of South Carolina. I've watched them over and over and still cannot get a good feel for Simpson or Joseph. Went back and watched Ko in 2004 and it's like a different player.

Matt_Alkire said:

I'm still watching alot of South Carolina. I've watched them over and over and still cannot get a good feel for Simpson or Joseph. Went back and watched Ko in 2004 and it's like a different player.

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Watch Ko against Georgia this year. It's as if he was using a Jedi mind trick to tell Shockley to throw it in his direction. Shockley should have been picked 4 times in that game.