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Trade down puzzle piece just completed

Texian

Texian

Hall of Fame
ESPN is reporting the Jets have put the Franchise tag on Abraham. This could be a key element in a trade with the Texans.

More intrique:

Pennington, Jets at odds
<Feb. 17> According to Newsday, Pennington's agent, Tom Condon, has rejected the Jets' proposal to cut the quarterback's 2006 salary from $8 million to $1 million and force him to make up the difference through incentives.
If the Jets decide they can't live with Pennington's current contract, or if the two sides can't reach an agreement by March 3, there's a chance Pennington could be released. Pennington is owed a $12 million bonus on that date, which the Jets do not want to pay.
 
Texian said:
ESPN is reporting the Jets have put the Franchise tag on Abraham. This could be a key element in a trade with the Texans.
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Or a key element in Abraham staying with the Jets.
 
It could be a key element in the Jets trading down with the Broncos so they can get abraham. They are interested in him to pair with Trevor Pryce since they will have to let go of some of the Cleveland castoffs that made up their D-Line this year.
 
Pennington turned down a contract renegotiation offer, could get cut. They might want one of those qb's... but Cutler would be around at 4.
 
If We ended trading with the Jets i would like a swap of 1st rounds and next years second and john abraham. hell reggie bush might still be there. but mario williams or D'foam Ferguson would still be there.:stirpot:
 
Coach C. said:
It could be a key element in the Jets trading down with the Broncos so they can get abraham. They are interested in him to pair with Trevor Pryce since they will have to let go of some of the Cleveland castoffs that made up their D-Line this year.
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I find it hard to believe the Jets would trade down to the end of the first (29th pick) from the 4th spot AND give up Abraham. It would require a massive package from the Broncos to pull it off.
 
Vinny said:
I find it hard to believe the Jets would trade down to the end of the first (29th pick) from the 4th spot AND give up Abraham. It would require a massive package from the Broncos to pull it off.
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Well, they could drop to 22 since the Broncos own the Redskins pick. Still pretty far though. Maybe something like Abraham and the Jets 3rd for the Broncos 22. Just throwing stuff out there.
 
Vinny said:
I find it hard to believe the Jets would trade down to the end of the first (29th pick) from the 4th spot AND give up Abraham. It would require a massive package from the Broncos to pull it off.
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I could see them trading for a later first round pick strait up for Abraham.

Also, If they have trouble with Pennington and they trade Abraham, I see them trying to pick up more picks not give them up to move up.:twocents:
 
My dream scenario would be trading down w/ the Jets. We get Abraham & then draft D'Brickashaw. The Oilers laid the groundwork for 7 years of consecutive playoff appearances when they draft linemen in the first round (Mike Munchak #1 in 82; Bruce Matthews #1 in 83; Dean Stienkuler #1 in 84; David Williams #1 in 89). To date we haven't drafted a lineman in a round higher than round 2 (Chest Pitts w/ 50th pick in 2002). No wonder our line has been lacking.
 
one rumor has the broncos trading up into the top 10 and then trading up again to texans they would mortage a whole lot to do it but they fill they are close to winning a super bowl just need one impact player..um...reggie bush:rolleyes:
 
I'd love to have Abraham but I don't like the scenario. I have also heard that it would be Abraham and that is it basically. So we move down and get him and their pick. Maybe I am dead wrong but I'd rather have the slew of picks. Now if they would take the first pick of the second round for him and we still moved down and had the extras in an unrelated move, I could see it.
 
Right now, the Jets are so deep in the salary cap, I doubt they can muster the finances for a no. 4 pick, let alone a no. 1. This trade scenario seems unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely.
 
i could see the jets pulling this off with us...except for the fact that john abraham isn't a strongside DE...he's another weakside...listed at 256lbs...why do the trade when we already have babin and peek...now the jets do have vilma which i would highly consider taking...shaun ellis is more of the type of DE we need...i could see a trade with green bay more likely involving donald driver or bubba franks and their number 5 overall pick for our number 1 overall
 
If we trade out of the #1 we need picks more than players with high salary and wear on them.

I don't trust CC and the trades he made in the past were plain ignorant. Course he has made some very bonehead picks as well, but at least we have a fighting chance with the picks versus another Burntnan.

We need someone who won't be garbage 3-4 years from now, when we're actually making the push.
 
Vinny said:
I find it hard to believe the Jets would trade down to the end of the first (29th pick) from the 4th spot AND give up Abraham. It would require a massive package from the Broncos to pull it off.
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Vinny the Broncos have two first round picks and have expressed an interest in him. One thing Shanahan has proven in his time in Denver that he will make any move he wants for a player he wants. They have done it consistently. Like the thread said these are just possiblities. I mean Foxsports.com says that he could be part of a trade down deal with us if we swap picks. So you never really know but Denver has the ability and a solid core where they could make this deal.
 
"My dream scenario would be trading down w/ the Jets. We get Abraham & then draft D'Brickashaw. The Oilers laid the groundwork for 7 years of consecutive playoff appearances when they draft linemen in the first round (Mike Munchak #1 in 82; Bruce Matthews #1 in 83; Dean Stienkuler #1 in 84; David Williams #1 in 89). To date we haven't drafted a lineman in a round higher than round 2 (Chest Pitts w/ 50th pick in 2002). No wonder our line has been lacking." -- capster67

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down with the crazy talk.

Have you not gotten the memo? The only way we win is with Bush or Young. We're going that Detroit Browns route where you draft QB or WR or RB every other year until we find the one guy that can take the ball the distance on each play on his own merits.

Who needs quality, franchise o linemen and d linemen? Let those Patriots and Steelers have those guys each year. Suckers!
 
For what it's worth Michael Smith thinks the Jets are drafting Cutler. I don't know if that means they trade down or take him at #4.
 
gpshafer_1976 said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down with the crazy talk.

Have you not gotten the memo? The only way we win is with Bush or Young. We're going that Detroit Browns route where you draft QB or WR or RB every other year until we find the one guy that can take the ball the distance on each play on his own merits.

Who needs quality, franchise o linemen and d linemen? Let those Patriots and Steelers have those guys each year. Suckers!
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In defense of the Browns, didn't they go crazy with cruddy defensive linemen and also draft a centre in the first round, recently?
 
and wasnt everyone pissed off when we got a DT last year? i see very little consistency on this message board.
 
I have to wait 'till they do something before I know what to be pissed about. It saves me from having to act happy. :)

But we do consistently gripe about everything, so that's something right there.
 
gpshafer_1976 said:
Who needs quality, franchise o linemen and d linemen? Let those Patriots and Steelers have those guys each year. Suckers!
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How many of those lineman were top of the draft picks?

BTW, your screen name offends me because I was 10 years old in 1976. This makes me feel old, so I think you need to change it. :jk: Sorry, I know... :offtopic
 
Munchak was selected 8th in the 82 draft, Matthews was 9th in the 83 draft, and Steinkuler was selected 2nd in the 84 draft. Each of these had something in common with D'Brick - they were the top ranked linemen available. Two of these will be in the Hall of Fame. Considering the highest offensive lineman drafted by the Texans thusfar was #50 in the 2002 draft its been no wonder we've had issues on the line.
 
Capster67 said:
Munchak was selected 8th in the 82 draft, Matthews was 9th in the 83 draft, and Steinkuler was selected 2nd in the 84 draft. Each of these had something in common with D'Brick - they were the top ranked linemen available. Two of these will be in the Hall of Fame. Considering the highest offensive lineman drafted by the Texans thusfar was #50 in the 2002 draft its been no wonder we've had issues on the line.
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Yeah, and Tony Mandarich was the top rated OL player (if not player in general) in the draft also.

I am assuming this post has nothing to do with the one right above it, since the question was posed with regard to the Steelers and the Patriots.
 
Capster67 said:
Munchak was selected 8th in the 82 draft, Matthews was 9th in the 83 draft, and Steinkuler was selected 2nd in the 84 draft. Each of these had something in common with D'Brick - they were the top ranked linemen available. Two of these will be in the Hall of Fame. Considering the highest offensive lineman drafted by the Texans thusfar was #50 in the 2002 draft its been no wonder we've had issues on the line.
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Who do you want to give back? AJ for Jordan Gross? Carr for Bryant McKinney? Dunta for Shawn Andrews?
 
No, yes, yes. I can only assume those are good linemen. I don't know much about other teams individual players.

Of course, I'm ignoring the fact that Kubiak may be able to do more with less in regards to linemen, so we'll have to wait and see.
 
Capster67 said:
Munchak was selected 8th in the 82 draft, Matthews was 9th in the 83 draft, and Steinkuler was selected 2nd in the 84 draft. Each of these had something in common with D'Brick - they were the top ranked linemen available. Two of these will be in the Hall of Fame. Considering the highest offensive lineman drafted by the Texans thusfar was #50 in the 2002 draft its been no wonder we've had issues on the line.
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Totally different scheme and time. The Broncos starting O-line this year was a 1st rounder(20th pick), 2 4th rounders, a 7th rounder and a rookie FA. Our new O-coordinator said that in Denver they found scrappy, smaller guys who loved to play the game. Those are guys you take with our 2 and 3 picks, not Top 5. Robert Gallery hasn't done a ton for the Raiders and there are other "can't miss" guys like Mandarich. O-lineman aren't guaranteed like any other position. Here is another team that was mentioned..the Patriots. Their line in 2005 was an undrafted FA (Neal), A 7th rounder at one tackle that was practice squad (Gorin), A 5th rounder that was let go by TB and put on NE practice squad (Hochstein), a 1st rounder (#32)(Mankins) and a 3rd rounder (Kaczur). When they had injuries Ashworth played alot and he was an undrafted FA of SF that was signed to the Patriots practice squad and moved up. All in all you can build a line with guys that aren't Top 5 picks and who fit the blocking scheme. It si the coaching. Hopefully we have corrected that.
 
I could swear I've read somebody argue before that we should do like the Patriots and spend high draft picks on linemen. :rolleyes:

We always try to do what the good teams do and it never works. Let's do what the bad teams do and see what happens. :wacko:
 
Hmmmm......., since the Jets need some help at DT, we need some help at DE, & we have an abundance of DT's (assuming we're switching to the 4-3), I wonder if they'd be interested in making a trade with us?

I'd love to see them take Walker & a 3rd round pick for Abraham, but that probably won't happen.

However, would you consider trading Robaire Smith, or Payne, for Abraham? :hmmm: Keep in mind, Abraham is going to be making a lot of money, so we have to send out some money to help keep our cap under control.
 
Hottoddie said:
Hmmmm......., since the Jets need some help at DT, we need some help at DE, & we have an abundance of DT's (assuming we're switching to the 4-3), I wonder if they'd be interested in making a trade with us?

I'd love to see them take Walker & a 3rd round pick for Abraham, but that probably won't happen.

However, would you consider trading Robaire Smith, or Payne, for Abraham? :hmmm: Keep in mind, Abraham is going to be making a lot of money, so we have to send out some money to help keep our cap under control.
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Walker and a 3rd for Abraham would be a great deal for us. Ya think the Jets would be stupid enough? Smith maybe but I like Payne.
 
sax_49 said:
Walker and a 3rd for Abraham would be a great deal for us. Ya think the Jets would be stupid enough? Smith maybe but I like Payne.
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No, but it would be sweet. I think Smith, or Payne, would be the most likely candidates in the trade.
 
I am more intrigued by the Pennington thing. If Pennington is cut and they cannot pick up a top FA QB, then they may be looking to draft a QB and not Bush. This may cause bush to fall to 4 wiht Ferguson going to the Titans at #3. But maybe Norm Chow and the Titans select Bush... let the drama continue.
 
BeerFan said:
and wasnt everyone pissed off when we got a DT last year? i see very little consistency on this message board.
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It's not that we were p.o.'ed that we got a dt last year, We got a DT in the first round who will be a mediocre DL at best. TJ ain't Richard Dent and is never gonna be. Got twenty says he'll never go the pro bowl.
 
Hottoddie said:
Hmmmm......., since the Jets need some help at DT, we need some help at DE, & we have an abundance of DT's (assuming we're switching to the 4-3), I wonder if they'd be interested in making a trade with us?

I'd love to see them take Walker & a 3rd round pick for Abraham, but that probably won't happen.

However, would you consider trading Robaire Smith, or Payne, for Abraham? :hmmm: Keep in mind, Abraham is going to be making a lot of money, so we have to send out some money to help keep our cap under control.
Click to expand...

CC better put on a mask and wipe the figger prints off the pistol when he's done and hope the DA don't charge him with fraud. After the p-burnt deal, I don't have much faith that this leaky vessel will hold water.
 
BeerFan said:
and wasnt everyone pissed off when we got a DT last year? i see very little consistency on this message board.
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Most people were mad because TJ wasnt worth his pick at the time. He was not even the best DT on his own team. Also, we were thin on LBs, and DJ was available. Most of the homers came out at that time. While I hate UT, I wanted DJ over TJ and still do.
 
Wharton said:
Right now, the Jets are so deep in the salary cap, I doubt they can muster the finances for a no. 4 pick, let alone a no. 1. This trade scenario seems unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely.
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The jets are pretty far over the cap. Franchising Abe will not help that figure. Pennington will not take a pay cut. I am trying to read between the lines, but I believe the Jets franchised him in order to trade him and create cap space. I think all we would need from a trade down would be Abe and their 2nd round pick. Maybe throw in a second rounder next year. Abe is proven and would play strongside DE. We draft D'brick.

The jets are more likely to pay #1 money as opposed to #4, abe, and pennington.
 
you see the funny thing is there are two tackles in this draft that really could fit this team really well...one is ferguson but the other is daryn colledge of boise state...IMO we trade down for mario williams and pick up colledge in the second...we have our strongside DE and our LT in one draft...and with the right trade we might be able to pick up dquell jackson, adull hodge, or nick mangold as well in the second
 
if the jets need a qb or a rb, why would they trade up? at four they are guaranteed to get one of the following qb's cutler, young, leinart. they are also guaranteed to get either lendale white or deangelo williams.

i wouldn't expect them to give up too much.
 
Jack Bauer said:
How many of those lineman were top of the draft picks?
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I can not speak for the Pats but being a Steelers fan 3 of their 5 OL were picked in the first round. The other 2 were 3rd rounders.
 
Caz said:
I can not speak for the Pats but being a Steelers fan 3 of their 5 OL were picked in the first round. The other 2 were 3rd rounders.
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jeff hartings - rd 1, pick 23 (detroit)
alan faneca - rd 1, pick 26 (pitt)
marvel smith - rd 2, pick 38 (pitt)
max starks - rd 3, pick 75 (pitt)
kendall simmons - rd 1, pick 30 (pitt)

matt light - rd 2, pick 49 (pats)
stephen neal - undrafted?
logan makins - rd 1, pick 32 (pats)
dan koppen - rd 5, pick 164 (pats)
brandon gorin - rd 7, pick 201 (chargers)

4 first rounders. 7 were first day picks. all but 2 have only played for one team. the patriots entire d-line was drafted in the first round, as well as casey hampton for the steelers.
 
Jack Bauer said:
Yeah, and Tony Mandarich was the top rated OL player (if not player in general) in the draft also.
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First of all - we aren't talking about trying to select someone who will be a good linemen for years....it's about selecting someone who can be a franchise left tackle for the next 10 years. I've heard that the accuracy rate when selecting those types of linemen is the highest of any position, but I know without doubt it is higher then when selecting skill position players.

The fact that you had to go back 17 years to find an offensive tackle who was a huge bust when taken in the top few draft picks helps to prove this point......There are so many more skill players drafted in the top 3 who have been monster busts that it isn't funny. As good as Reggie was in college, he is no sure thing in the pro's. The closest thing to a sure thing is to take D'Brick to anchor our OL for years.
 
Derrick Johnson is who I think you mean. Also I am looking for a guy like Mario Williams who like Ferguson will anchor our trench for years. Yeah he comes at a higher premium because guys that put the QB on his *** are valuable. You dont pass up a pure pass rusher with freak type size and ability.
 
killeentexan said:
First of all - we aren't talking about trying to select someone who will be a good linemen for years....it's about selecting someone who can be a franchise left tackle for the next 10 years. I've heard that the accuracy rate when selecting those types of linemen is the highest of any position, but I know without doubt it is higher then when selecting skill position players.

The fact that you had to go back 17 years to find an offensive tackle who was a huge bust when taken in the top few draft picks helps to prove this point......There are so many more skill players drafted in the top 3 who have been monster busts that it isn't funny. As good as Reggie was in college, he is no sure thing in the pro's. The closest thing to a sure thing is to take D'Brick to anchor our OL for years.
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What about Robert Gallery and Mike Williams?They were just recently. Look at the Denver roster I posted above and even the NE one. Heck, look at the Steelers one above. 3 1st rounders yet all at the bottom of the draft. We have the #1 pick in the 2nd round and 2 Top 3rd rounders. With the blocking scheme we are implementing, using a pick in the Top 5 on Brick just isn't necessary.
 
Scooter said:
jeff hartings - rd 1, pick 23 (detroit)
alan faneca - rd 1, pick 26 (pitt)
marvel smith - rd 2, pick 38 (pitt)
max starks - rd 3, pick 75 (pitt)
kendall simmons - rd 1, pick 30 (pitt)

matt light - rd 2, pick 49 (pats)
stephen neal - undrafted?
logan makins - rd 1, pick 32 (pats)
dan koppen - rd 5, pick 164 (pats)
brandon gorin - rd 7, pick 201 (chargers)

4 first rounders. 7 were first day picks. all but 2 have only played for one team. the patriots entire d-line was drafted in the first round, as well as casey hampton for the steelers.
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I posted this same thing earlier in this thread but showed that NE and Denver didn't need to use top picks. Look at the guys the Steelers took. All bottom of the first. We have the 1st pick of the 2nd. I just don't use a Top 5 pick.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=277856&postcount=26
 
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