LBC_Justin
Rookie
Just curious how many people would trade Travis Johnson and the Texans #66 pick for the Chiefs Derrick Johnson?
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Would you trade Travis Johnson & #66 pick for Derrick Johnson?
- Thread starter LBC_Justin
- Start date
ensign_lee
Rookie
We're stuck with what we've got now.
GO TJ.
GO TJ.
LORK 88
Wreck'em Ŧech!
Why not see how he works out in the 4-3 as a DT before we pass judgement on him a 2nd time? Im going to say it right now, Look out for him next year, I have a feeling he'll do great as a 4-3 DT rather than a 3-4 DE. Put him next to Robaire Smith with Walker and/or Payne behind them and we're in some good shape. Now about those DEs . . .
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
No thank you. I see where the value is for Texan fans, but I have no idea where the value in this trade is for the Texans.
I'm already trying to get the fans to warm up to the idea of drafting Vince, and not trading down. There's no way I'd get them to Draft Vince, and give away picks......
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
Both are unproven at this point in their careers. If you asked TJ for DJ, then I might say yes, but we don't know how good Travis Johnson is going to be. He has been the lowest profile 1st rounder we've had in all 4 years, but I don't think that necessarily means he will be a bust. If he's still a low profile player 2 years from now, then I'll be worried.
hot pickle
Canada Eh
hey, with the 4-3 in houston now will TJ go DT or will he stay at DE
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
i don't know, how fast is he?
LBC_Justin said:
Actually, I will take this as would you do this trade again after the first season. Essentially, this is what the Texans tradedown last year amounts to. I think this question is better asked after the draft and best asked in 3 years.
TheOgre
All Pro
mancunian said:
It costs us more on this season's cap to cut him than to keep him. I think he might get cut AFTER this season, but not before it.
Payne and Smith are clearly DT's. Walker and TJ are guys that are DT's that might be able to play LDE in a pinch. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them as our 1st and 2nd down LDE and get replaced by Peek on passing downs. This isn't ideal, but it may be the only option if we don't sign/draft a top DE.
travfrancis
Waterboy
eh, either should be nice in the 4-3, although if we run a broncos style 4-3, i'd rather have DJ because he is similar to what the broncos have at LB.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
thunderkyss said:
Your right Charley.
ComstockLode
Waterboy
This is a silly question.
And honestly I dont think the chiefs would do it.
And honestly I dont think the chiefs would do it.
Grid said:
Be nice. The question isn't really if you think it's a trade worth doing. It's a question of reversing the trade from last years draft.
Texans dropped from #13 (passing on Derrick Johnson) to #16 (Saints pick, getting this years #66 in exchange) and took Travis Johnson.
I truly believe that had this trade not been made that the Texans would have been no worse than 6-10 this year. In my opinion, it was THE biggest mistake of the offseason.
HOWEVER, now that we are moving to a 4-3 (due to going 2-14 and firing our 3-4 coach) and have already taken our lumps, there's no reason to back out. TJ was the best 4-3 DT in that draft class, without question. He just had no place in a 3-4.
FYI, I went to A&M.
stevo3883 said:
Cass was lying to cover that he blew it. He thought we could get DJ at #16. They were pumping their fists and dancing around the Texans Draft War Room cam when pick #13 came up. And they went totally dead when Carolina picked Thomas Davis (since everyone paying attention knew the Chiefs were drooling over Thomas Davis and that DJ was their #2 choice)
TJ was far more 4-3 specific than DJ. NFLDraftCountdown describes Brodrick Bunkley as "maybe even a better prospect than Travis Johnson". The guy is a great DT, he would have started over our ancient guys if he fit our system.
Grid said:
?? I am a Texas fan in college and a Texans fan in the NFL. I wouldn't think that would be too unusual considering the Texans play in Texas. But hey, if we are breaking it down like that, I bet there are even MORE Astros fans here parading as Texans fans.
BTW, I wouldn't make the trade. You would be giving up an extra pick and neither player has proven anything in the NFL.
LBC_Justin
Rookie
Exactly but I didn't want to word it that way.ArlingtonTexan said:
Personally there is no way I would trade TJ & the #66 for DJ (based on what we know right now.). DJ played decent but after seeing him play for a season you can see how he slipped in the draft and he certainly wasn't a "no brainer" at #13. Heck, I can name FIVE rookie Linebackers that looked better or at least as good as DJ. (I am a HUGE Texas fan but I have to admit several rookie LBs had played really well this year. Several that were even drafted in the 2nd round. I would love to have DJ but not for a #13 or a #16 pick)
TJ is doing just fine. He plays a position that is not easy to measure and he plays a position that takes time to develop.
Plus I think the #66 in this years draft is worth a lot more than last year.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Sarg01 said:
Just so I have this straight, you are saying that Derrick Johnson alone would have made us 4 wins better last year?
Kaiser Toro said:
Yes. That is what I am saying. Losing Jamie Sharper and Aaron Glenn took us from 7-9 to 2-14. Both our run and pass defense got worse, so I see the Sharper attrition as the bigger problem. I think DJ played very well for KC. Not superstar well, but very well. I think he certainly outperformed Morlon Greenwood. I believe having him in at LB would have forced the O-line of the opposition teams to account for him and thus Babin and Peek would have gotten more pressure.
Remember, we lost 5 games in the last two minutes, so it doesn't take much to flip 4 of them.
It's one reason I'm such a big fan of Hawk. I believe a single playmaking LB would be huge. It wouldn't win us a Super Bowl or get us to the playoffs, but it could easily get us one extra stop per game.
Wolf
100% Texan
DJ was lost (and I believe people knew it but didn't actually believe it) when Greenwood was signed.
A better poll IMO would be would you rather have drafted DJ and not p/u Greenwood.
Yet we were sold on the idea of the Texans going younger and faster.. well DJ is younger ... faster???
A better poll IMO would be would you rather have drafted DJ and not p/u Greenwood.
Yet we were sold on the idea of the Texans going younger and faster.. well DJ is younger ... faster???
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Sarg01 said:
I do not understand your justification, but you do seem to think that DJ would have made us four games better in a year that he did not play like a superstar. Just do not get it. Moreover, Greenwood had a better statistical year last year playing for a very bad defensive team that was on the field a lot due to an awful offense.
The reason that this is exposing Texas fans is because:
Derrick Johnson in 2005:
95 tackles
2 sacks
5 passes defensed
Morlon Greenwood
112 tackles
2 sacks
6 passes defensed
You would trade picks, and a young DT which we havent even BEGUN to fully evaluate... for a player that hasnt shown himself to be any better than Morlon Greenwood? And why?...because he is from UT.
its stupid. Derrick Johnson didnt DO anything last season.. if you want a player from last year's draft.. we should be talking about why we didnt take..
Luis Castillo, DE:
49 tackles, 3.5 sacks
Heath Miller, TE:
39 receptions, 6 TDs
Odell Thurman, LB:
98 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 5 INTs
But instead people are obssessing over some average player that DIDNT WOW anyone.. simply because he came from TU.
Derrick Johnson in 2005:
95 tackles
2 sacks
5 passes defensed
Morlon Greenwood
112 tackles
2 sacks
6 passes defensed
You would trade picks, and a young DT which we havent even BEGUN to fully evaluate... for a player that hasnt shown himself to be any better than Morlon Greenwood? And why?...because he is from UT.
its stupid. Derrick Johnson didnt DO anything last season.. if you want a player from last year's draft.. we should be talking about why we didnt take..
Luis Castillo, DE:
49 tackles, 3.5 sacks
Heath Miller, TE:
39 receptions, 6 TDs
Odell Thurman, LB:
98 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 5 INTs
But instead people are obssessing over some average player that DIDNT WOW anyone.. simply because he came from TU.
Grid said:
Stats don't tell the whole story. Greenwood got lots of tackles ... 4 yards upfield. If the other team is picking up 4-5 yards each rush, we're never going to stop them.
I wanted to draft Castillo, too, but he went much higher than people expected.
Thurman had a bad attitude knock. It didn't end up manifesting himself, but I can see why a team would pass for that reason alone.
TJ didn't WOW anyone either. In fact, he hardly played. If you must play the stats game, how do TJs stats compare to DJs? 1 sack (DJ had 2) and 26 tackles (DJ had 95) and 0 turnovers (DJ had 2). By your logic that Greenwood is better than DJ, clearly TJ's a scrub.
Of course he isn't in reality, because in reality, stats don't tell the whole story.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Sarg01 said:
I tried to reply to this, but the only thing I could muster in a neutral non offensive way was - :brickwall
Kaiser Toro said:
Greenwood's stats are EXACTLY why I think it's justified. Greenwood was our top "playmaker" statistically. In other words, his performance was the key performance on more plays than any other defender. This is not surprising, since the 3-4 funnels plays to the ILBs.
As you noted, we were a very bad defense ... because the guy who had the responsibility of making the plays most often was a very bad (NFL-wise) defender. A better player would have given up less yardage. Less yardage = reliably more stops. More stops means shaving a few points off the other team's score. Shave off one touchdown a game and we're 8-8. I thought that was a bit too strong a statement, so I said 6-10.
Kaiser Toro said:
I know you can't compare LBs to DLine. Or a situational pass-rusher for an every down player. I was just using the logic a previous poster had used to illustrate why it was fallacious.
In fact, if you look back earlier in the thread, you'd see where I noted that I WOULDN'T make this trade. However, that doesn't justify the poster bashing everyone who votes "yes" as a non-Texan fan.
Well this board is full of so many Tsips right now that its easier to just group everyone with a bad idea in with them..than trying to single out which ones are Tsips and which ones are just unintelligent
The reason I didnt bring TJs stats into it is because:
1) he wasnt a starter
2) he wasnt bad enough to warrant this kind of trade. He didnt "WOW" anyone..as you said.. but he didnt put up a Matt Stevens kind of performance either. If he had gone in there and totally sucked.. then I could understand people talking about trading him(I still wouldnt agree..but id understand), but he didnt... he still has plenty of upside. So.. since there is no good excuse to think about trading him.. then you have to ask yourself, why are people posting whether or not they would trade him AND a 3rd rounder for Derrick Johnson? ill tell ya why... cause they are Texas fans..not Texan fans. A trade of this type is entirely off-the-wall. neither player proved anything last season.. so why should we give up a pick to exchange them? I was merely pointing out the statistical proof that Derrick Johnson is not some player that we should be pining over.. not unless you have your burnt orange glasses on.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
I think TJ will really shine this season. He was out of place in a 3-4 and fits in great as a DT in the new 4-3. I'd hope he starts with Robaire with Walker and Payne on the bench if they aren't cap casualties. Bring in someone like Mario Williams on the strongside and either Babin, Peek or John Abraham if that could work and this could be a very good D-Line. DJ is a good linebacker, but at this time I think TJ is going to be better for them.
Grid said:
dude can you not make 1 post without acting like there is some kind of super conspiracy by longhorns to rule the world?
we wanted DJ because he was a 2x AA and was the highest rated pure LB in the draft. we got a DT that had like 30 tackles his senior year in college, and couldnt see the field on the worst team in the league. we wanted DJ because he was rated higher than TJ by everyone, and it felt like a miracle he fell to us
DJ had a pretty good season considering the circumstances. he started off very very well and tapered off towards the end, but dont act like he sucked this year because he did not.
and DJ is an olb in a 4-3, he hsouldnt have as many tackles as a ilb in a 3-4 like greenwood.
so please, drop the "tu" "tsips" garbage for at least 1 second and try to talk without whining about your aggie hatred for ut.
pv1999
Waterboy
The TexasXes Haterpalooza is in full effect. Look, UTexas has recruited the top talent for about 8 years now. Of course they are going to produce more NFL Players than other schools like aTm, TT, TCU, etc. There are some Orangebloods on the board but some people may be like me and just want to see our Hometown guys get the chance to play at home.
Stop hatin' on da'horns, call your alumni chapter and tell them to petition your coach to get him somethin' t'fight with or stop scheduling the Horns.
Stop hatin' on da'horns, call your alumni chapter and tell them to petition your coach to get him somethin' t'fight with or stop scheduling the Horns.
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
I think it's simple to see. All you need to do is look at sign up dates to determine those that have come flocking and fawning over the slight chance the Texans take VY. All I need to do is reference the postings made by the majority of you tsippers last year when we had the slight chance to choose DJ, and the wailing and gnashing of teeth that followed when we didn't. I've seen those conspiracy postings ya refer to also. What was it again? Oh I remember, the Texans have an issue drafting players from tu. Like propaganda, I've seen the topics that hide the intent of the posting, all in a vain attempt to rehash the same subject matter. If we draft VY, I'll be in the stands cheering for his success the same as I do now for the Texan players. And I don't hate texas u, it's more a disdain for the type of stuff I've seen their so called fans pull here. I say good luck to all of ya, and if we draft the guy, anyone that bails as a fan isn't a fan at all, and the same applies if we don't draft him
first texan fan, there is a board just for people like you.
its www.texags.com
you make more pro aggie posts than texan posts, shouldnt you go back home? they need you in college station, i hear the corp lost its poop shoveler.
its www.texags.com
you make more pro aggie posts than texan posts, shouldnt you go back home? they need you in college station, i hear the corp lost its poop shoveler.
HardKnockTexan
Rookie
With us going to the 4-3 I voted to keep TJ. Like many others on this board I was crushed when we didnt take DJ last year but neither of them showed much their rookie season and I believe both have the potential to be very productive players. Walker and Payne each only have a few seasons left and our linebacker corps is fairly young. I have faith that TJ will at the very least be able to field 25 snaps a game for us.
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
I'd say I make more posts that make fun of tsippers than most..that doesn't make me pro-Ag, it makes me one of many that find the inane postings of minions so full of bias we can do nothing but laugh at the entire group I'm a Texans fan first and foremost. I'm sure once you're able to come down from your orange kool-aid high, you'll grasp the concept of what being a Texans fan is, as opposed to just blindly pulling for a guy that once quarterbacked your college team Unlike you, I'll still be here posting after the draft, irregardless of the Texans pick. You'll be where? I know www.bevosports.com, they won't make fun of you there
I'm a Texans fan first and foremost. I'm sure once you're able to come down from your orange kool-aid high, you'll grasp the concept of what being a Texans fan is, as opposed to just blindly pulling for a guy that once quarterbacked your college team Unlike you, I'll still be here posting after the draft, irregardless of the Texans pick. You'll be where? I know www.bevosports.com, they won't make fun of you there