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What could Jon Gruden do with our current roster?

Mangler

Mangler

Toro de España
I'm convinced that our offense will always be a joke under O'Brien. This game planning per opponent, no identity, excuse of a system has got to go! I wonder what it'll take for the front office to finally say "enough is enough?"

Anyway, I apologize for going off topic. if the front office made a move for Jon Gruden, what do you guys think he'd do with our current roster? Would our offense finally look as that of a real NFL team? Would our QBs benefit from a guy like him?
 
Oh I don't know ... Win a championship? Did the same with a similarly built team in Tampa.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Oh I don't know ... Win a championship? Did the same with a similarly built team in Tampa.
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Would be nice to have a coach that makes the players better, instead of making them regress with his multiple personality disorder of an offense that hasn't worked in the last 3 years, and has actually gotten worse.
 
Mangler said:
Would be nice to have a coach that makes the players better, instead of making them regress with his multiple personality disorder of an offense that hasn't worked in the last 3 years, and has actually gotten worse.
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Making chicken salad out of chicken sh!t is what BOB has done for 3 yrs.

Tell me what new talent has Ricky added to the offense to give BOB some help this offseason?

Give BOB the same amount of say that Gruden had with Tampa and then we can compare. Right now that's impossible to do.
 
TheKDog said:
Even with a better scheme, the OL still sucks
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Agree. Your "schemes" are going to be significantly impacted with an OL we saw on the field last Wednesday. The 1st preseason game is way too soon to make any conclusions about O'Brien's scheming. At the 1st regular season game, we will probably be in a better position to evaluate. But unless we see significantly improved OL play, you will see the O options continue to be very limited.
 
TheKDog said:
Even with a better scheme, the OL still sucks
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Not sure where the offensive talent on the Texans is that good period. One above average WR, a couple of average to ok Tes, a high-end change of pace back miscast as an every down RB, other WRs who are inexperienced and/or often injured...I have not even touched the QB position...and I am answering a post about the OL
 
Mangler said:
I'm convinced that our offense will always be a joke under O'Brien. This game planning per opponent, no identity, excuse of a system has got to go! I wonder what it'll take for the front office to finally say "enough is enough?"

Anyway, I apologize for going off topic. if the front office made a move for Jon Gruden, what do you guys think he'd do with our current roster? Would our offense finally look as that of a real NFL team? Would our QBs benefit from a guy like him?
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BOB was not among my favorite candidates for the HC job, but if the FO changed him, they would just get somebody worse. IMO he has been crippled by GM draft selection that's worse than what he would prefer.
 
Our offense was a joke last year. This year is still to be seen, but my money is on average to less than average. Unless Watson can turn a miracle, and I'm not putting a lot of stock in that either.
 
Gruden would pat RS on the back for the defense he assembled but within a blink RS would be reaching back and wondering why the back of his pants suddenly have tassels...then he'd look down to realize Gruden only has one shoe on...dang-it, that isn't a tassel it's his shoe laces! This would be Gruden's response to the effort put forth in assembling an offense. When Gruden is ready to resume his assessment, Larry Izzo with both hands firmly covering the back of his pants slowly backs out of the room.
 
steelbtexan said:
Making chicken salad out of chicken sh!t is what BOB has done for 3 yrs.

Tell me what new talent has Ricky added to the offense to give BOB some help this offseason?

Give BOB the same amount of say that Gruden had with Tampa and then we can compare. Right now that's impossible to do.
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Wtf?

You asked for speed.

Smith, oh wait you liked speed so that was OB. Wait it didn't work out so that was Smith.

Now on to the next whiny beotch.

Tell you what, (after OB is canned) when he hoists a Lombardi in some other town (could happen, like say a never going to be a head coach again, can't get to the super bowl Kubiak) ... (do rhey make thumb rings for 5rh SB?) I'll take you to the best steakhouse in Austin, tip a glass of 30 yr old bourbon and salute the crystal ball of your cynicism.
 
infantrycak said:
Wtf?

You asked for speed.

Smith, oh wait you liked speed so that was OB. Wait it didn't work out so that was Smith.

Now on to the next whiny beotch.

Tell you what, (after OB is canned) when he hoists a Lombardi in some other town (could happen, like say a never going to be a head coach again, can't get to the super bowl Kubiak) ... (do rhey make thumb rings for 5rh SB?) I'll take you to the best steakhouse in Austin, tip a glass of 30 yr old bourbon and salute the crystal ball of your cynicism.
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I did want speed added to the team.

I also have called for an upgrade at RT/LG for the last 3 yrs.BTW, the OL will continue to suck until this is fixed and you can expect more 9-7, 7-9. (A Texans hallmark of exellence under both Kubiak/BOB, so maybe, just maybe the problems with the Texans org lies elsewhere.

If you remember correctly I really thought re-signing Newton was a huge mistake.
 
steelbtexan said:
I did want speed added to the team.

I also have called for an upgrade at RT/LG for the last 3 yrs.BTW, the OL will continue to suck until this is fixed and you can expect more 9-7, 7-9. (A Texans hallmark of exellence under both Kubiak/BOB, so maybe, just maybe the problems with the Texans org lies elsewhere.

If you remember correctly I really thought re-signing Newton was a huge mistake.
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It turned out to be the mistake to end all mistakes.
The Astros will continue to spiral downward in one of the epic collapses in sports history. They will be in the fight of their lives to retain the division lead until season's end. As in years past, the Rangers will own them the rest of the way.
 
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As a whole, I'm ok with BOB as the head coach. IRT just the offense, these are my qualms:

1. Apparently, it's complex. That's evident to me when you see how long it takes for rookies start to actually contribute to the team. Guys like XSF, Fiedo, and Blue didn't start to look decent until late season 2 or season 3.

2. The use of Lamar Miller & Arian Foster was totally mind boggling. We got this guy, he's fast and can make people miss! Instead, BOB continues to run him up the gut. Very little scheming to take advantage of his speed. Or, We have this guy that's super talented, but has been having injury problems. No problem, let's still give him 30-40 touches a game. Huh?

3. His "scheme" requires a very good QB. A lot of his offense is on the shoulders of the QB. Which looks beautiful when you have a guy like Brady, but total crap when you have the Hoyers & Brocks of the league.

And those blaming RS for all of the offensive woes. Kubiak didn't have any problems building one of the better offenses in the league with the talent RS was providing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
dream_team said:
Kubiak didn't have any problems building one of the better offenses in the league with the talent RS was providing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That dude's the real offensive genius / QB whisperer .... Uncle Bob really fired the wrong guy , shoulda sent Tricky Rick packing instead.

He turned a noodle armed club footed Schaub into a Pro Bowl QB ....

He made Brock look good enough for Tricky Rick to give him $72m.

He got #80 so wide open that no one was within 10 yards ..... when 3 defenders were responsible for him.
 
mussop said:
Gruden sucks. Please stop acting like he was a good coach.
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He took a Raiders team that was average and turned them into a Super Bowl team. Yes Bill Callahan was the head coach when the Raiders made the Super Bowl but all Callahan had to do was keep things pretty much as they were under coach Gruden.

On a side note Bill Callahan is a fine assistant coach but since that one season with the Raiders he has failed as a head coach in the pro football world and the college football world.

Gruden took a team in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that already was a winner under Tony Dungee but could not get to the Super Bowl and ignited them to a title. He did that with a great defense but Tony Dungee had that same defense and could not get past the Eagles in the previous two playoff games and Jon Gruden finally overcame that hurdle and went on to win the title over his previous team. He also went from 9-7 to 12-4 that Super Bowl season.

Yes you could argue that he won it all with the team that Tony Dungee built and that is true but he did make changes once he got the job in Tampa and it paid off in the way of a title. A title Tony Dungee could not get to let alone win.

I won't take anything away from Tony Dungee because Tony did finally get a title while in Indianapolis. It is all a matter of time, fit and circumstance. However just as I would not take anything away from Tony I won't take anything away from Jon Gruden. Both men were good head coaches in their time.

I don't know that Jon Gruden could do much with this teams roster as constructed. Also a lot of time has gone by since he was on top of the head coaching world. The game of today may not fit him the way it did that last time he was a head coach.

I am not going to anoint Jon Gruden as an all time great head coach but in his time he did a good job leading two teams to success. He does not seem to desire coming out of retirement but if he did and BO'b was fired I see where our team dynamics are similar to what he had in his title season with the Buccaneers. Of coarse the O-line we have is practically tissue paper and I don't see any head coach reaching the mountain top so to speak as long as that is the case.

As it stands our teams weapons are being neutered by not having any kind of depth or skill on the O-line.

Neglecting the O-line again will see our team lucky to finish another season with just enough wins to have a winning record and a loss in the wild card of the playoffs if we make it that far.
 
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TxnsJuggernaut said:
He took a Raiders team that was average and turned them into a Super Bowl team. Yes Bill Callahan was the head coach when the Raiders made the Super Bowl but all Callahan had to do was keep things pretty much as they were under coach Gruden.

On a side note Bill Callahan is a fine assistant coach but since that one season with the Raiders he has failed as a head coach in the pro football world and the college football world.

Gruden took a team in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that already was a winner under Tony Dungee but could not get to the Super Bowl and ignited them to a title. He did that with a great defense but Tony Dungee had that same defense and could not get past the Eagles in the previous two playoff games and Jon Gruden finally overcame that hurdle and went on to win the title over his previous team. He also went from 9-7 to 12-4 that Super Bowl season.

Yes you could argue that he won it all with the team that Tony Dungee built and that is true but he did make changes once he got the job in Tampa and it paid off in the way of a title. A title Tony Dungee could not get to let alone win.

I won't take anything away from Tony Dungee because Tony did finally get a title while in Indianapolis. It is all a matter of time, fit and circumstance. However just as I would not take anything away from Tony I won't take anything away from Jon Gruden. Both men were good head coaches in their time.

I don't know that Jon Gruden could do much with this teams roster as constructed. Also a lot of time has gone by since he was on top of the head coaching world. The game of today may not fit him the way it did that last time he was a head coach.

I am not going to anoint Jon Gruden as an all time great head coach but in his time he did a good job leading two teams to success. He does not seem to desire coming out of retirement but if he did and BO'b was fired I see where our team dynamics are similar to what he had in his title season with the Buccaneers. Of coarse the O-line we have is practically tissue paper and I don't see any head coach reaching the mountain top so to speak as long as that is the case.

As it stands our teams weapons are being neutered by not having any kind of depth or skill on the O-line.

Neglecting the O-line again will see our team lucky to finish another season with just enough wins to have a winning record and a loss in the wild card of the playoffs if we make it that far.
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That's a nice cliff notes version now here's a dose of reality.

After winning the Super Bowl, Gruden and the Buccaneers did not win a single playoff game from 2003 to 2008. Not one. In fact, in the two post-season games the Bucs played in from 2003-2008, they averaged just over 11 points a game. During his tenure in Tampa Bay, the Bucs offense was never better than the offenses Tony Dungy coached, even though Gruden had a better stable of QBs at his disposal and was brought in as an offensive coach.

He not only sucked as an offensive minded coach but he also destroyed any winning culture and feel of loyalty that team had. He also never really developed any young QBs during that time even though he had many.

So keep harping on the Superbowl win as proof he's a good coach even though it was the defense that won it with less help from the offense than it had the year before with Dungy.

Not only is he a bad coach, he's a bad person as well. Just Google John gruden is a scumbag.
 
mussop said:
That's a nice cliff notes version now here's a dose of reality.

After winning the Super Bowl, Gruden and the Buccaneers did not win a single playoff game from 2003 to 2008. Not one. In fact, in the two post-season games the Bucs played in from 2003-2008, they averaged just over 11 points a game. During his tenure in Tampa Bay, the Bucs offense was never better than the offenses Tony Dungy coached, even though Gruden had a better stable of QBs at his disposal and was brought in as an offensive coach.

He not only sucked as an offensive minded coach but he also destroyed any winning culture and feel of loyalty that team had. He also never really developed any young QBs during that time even though he had many.

So keep harping on the Superbowl win as proof he's a good coach even though it was the defense that won it with less help from the offense than it had the year before with Dungy.

Not only is he a bad coach, he's a bad person as well. Just Google John gruden is a scumbag.
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I do agree with you on many things.
However, I think the time in the booth may very well help him.
I do enjoy his QB camp. With the passage of time, he was able to study many of them during the draft process.
Also, most people can mellow down with age.

I'm just not sure he wants the daily grind of coaching anymore though.
He's probably best where he's currently at.
 
mussop said:
That's a nice cliff notes version now here's a dose of reality.

After winning the Super Bowl, Gruden and the Buccaneers did not win a single playoff game from 2003 to 2008. Not one. In fact, in the two post-season games the Bucs played in from 2003-2008, they averaged just over 11 points a game. During his tenure in Tampa Bay, the Bucs offense was never better than the offenses Tony Dungy coached, even though Gruden had a better stable of QBs at his disposal and was brought in as an offensive coach.

He not only sucked as an offensive minded coach but he also destroyed any winning culture and feel of loyalty that team had. He also never really developed any young QBs during that time even though he had many.

So keep harping on the Superbowl win as proof he's a good coach even though it was the defense that won it with less help from the offense than it had the year before with Dungy.

Not only is he a bad coach, he's a bad person as well. Just Google John gruden is a scumbag.
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Good points. However it does not negate the fact that he was the right coach at the right time to win the title in Tampa and the Raiders whom he beat for that title was in large part good because of him. You also could give him the Bill O'brien treatment and blame the owner, GM and front office for subsequent failures after the Super Bowl season.

I in fact find it amazing the Buccs were as good as they were under Dungy and Gruden. The coaching tree and history of the team saw them as doormats more times than not.

I would not say Gruden is or was a great head coach but he was hardly bad given the above said reality of Tampa Bay and football. He did enough to win a title and that hardly makes him a bad head coach no matter what the failures were afterward. I could care less if people like him. He was not very good after the Super Bowl but how much is on him and how much is on the organization as a whole is what I question. I read the bad press and all in regards to Jon Gruden but I also know the history of the Buccs and all the losing they suffered no matter who has owned or coached them.

Knowing the Buccs are crap and have been more times than not made me look up the coaches records after Gruden and the GM at the time were fired.

Here you go...
Raheem Morris* 2009–2011* Games 48 Wins 17-Losses 31 Winning% .354
Greg Schiano* 2012–2013* Games 32 Wins 11-Losses 21 Winning% .344
Lovie Smith 2014–2015 32 Wins 8 - Losses 24 Winning% .250
Dirk Koetter 2016–present Games 16 Wins 9 - Losses7 0 .563 — While there is promise it remains to be seen if Dirk Koetter can build on the positive step forward last season with what looks like a very talented Buccs team.

As far as Jon Gruden being a bad person it can be said that Bill O'brien has been said to be difficult himself.
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
Good points. However it does not negate the fact that he was the right coach at the right time to win the title in Tampa and the Raiders whom he beat for that title was in large part good because of him. You also could give him the Bill O'brien treatment and blame the owner, GM and front office for subsequent failures after the Super Bowl season.

I in fact find it amazing the Buccs were as good as they were under Dungy and Gruden. The coaching tree and history of the team saw them as doormats more times than not.

I would not say Gruden is or was a great head coach but he was hardly bad given the above said reality of Tampa Bay and football. He did enough to win a title and that hardly makes him a bad head coach no matter what the failures were afterward. I could care less if people like him. He was not very good after the Super Bowl but how much is on him and how much is on the organization as a whole is what I question. I read the bad press and all in regards to Jon Gruden but I also know the history of the Buccs and all the losing they suffered no matter who has owned or coached them.

Knowing the Buccs are crap and have been more times than not made me look up the coaches records after Gruden and the GM at the time were fired.

Here you go...
Raheem Morris* 2009–2011* Games 48 Wins 17-Losses 31 Winning% .354
Greg Schiano* 2012–2013* Games 32 Wins 11-Losses 21 Winning% .344
Lovie Smith 2014–2015 32 Wins 8 - Losses 24 Winning% .250
Dirk Koetter 2016–present Games 16 Wins 9 - Losses7 0 .563 — While there is promise it remains to be seen if Dirk Koetter can build on the positive step forward last season with what looks like a very talented Buccs team.

As far as Jon Gruden being a bad person it can be said that Bill O'brien has been said to be difficult himself.
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Any time a HC win a Super Bowl, I believe you have to give him credit.
 
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/07/jon-gruden-wants-to-become-head-coach-again

Gruden served as the Raiders’ head coach from 1998-2001 and the Buccaneers’ head coach from 2002-2008. He has compiled a 100-85 career record (including a 5-4 postseason mark), and he led the Bucs to their only Lombardi Trophy in Super Bowl XXXVII, knocking off Oakland in the process.

Not HOF good but the above reality says he is better than a lot of current head coaches in the NFL.
 
https://www.quora.com/Was-Jon-Gruden-overrated-as-an-NFL-head-coach

I agree with the prior respondents that Gruden was a good coach but not Lombardi/Walsh/Gibbs/Belichick legendary, at least not yet (he's still a reasonably young 48 today)

So, as a whole, Gruden's had 6 good seasons and 4 bad ones with a SB title under his belt. I think that defines a decent NFL coaching career (one which might still have more chapters to be written).
 
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why do you have to copy and paste the entire article after posting the link? A simple snippet will do
 
JB said:
mainly because it's not in quotes... why post the link if you are gonna appear to be offering comment instead of plagiarizing the article?
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Good point.

I still would just read what I think is logical; don't ever pay much attention to anything else.

There are articles that I totally disagree with, but if I hope others to read my sometimes dissenting opinions, I would best do the same.
 
one of the more overated coaches out there. Everyone knows the deal with his SB roster in TB..that was Dungy's squad & he just happened to be facing the team he was traded from in the SB....... so he knew everything about what was going on over there. He honestly probably knew more about that raiders team than their HC at the time Bill Callahan lol; It was a complete inside job.

Once those guys on the TB defense started getting old & or left................... 2 winning seasons/first round exits in the playoffs in 5 years. The year after they won the SB didn't Manning stage that 28 pt. 4th qtr comeback in like 7 minutes the opening game of 2006 season?

So to answer the question, I don't think he'd do much more than O'Brien has thus far.
 
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amazing80 said:
I think RAC or Vrabel would be elevated for HC and we would bring in a legit OC.
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I think Vrabel is next in line.

I remember in Tampa Lovie Smith got fired because the now HC was so popular the team was afraid of losing him due to a HC promotion. I could see that happening here with a seasoned HC/OC coming to fill in. I just don't who would fill those shoes. Welker doesn't have enough experience.
 
Corrosion said:
That dude's the real offensive genius / QB whisperer .... Uncle Bob really fired the wrong guy , shoulda sent Tricky Rick packing instead.

He turned a noodle armed club footed Schaub into a Pro Bowl QB ....

He made Brock look good enough for Tricky Rick to give him $72m.

He got #80 so wide open that no one was within 10 yards ..... when 3 defenders were responsible for him.
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I can only imagine what Kubiak could have done with a talent like Watson.

Kubiak's coaching resume speaks for itself. 4 rings at three different coaching positions.

76Texan said:
Why does it matter, haha.
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Well, because it's part of the forum rules, that's why:

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Mangler said:
I'm convinced that our offense will always be a joke under O'Brien. This game planning per opponent, no identity, excuse of a system has got to go! I wonder what it'll take for the front office to finally say "enough is enough?"

Anyway, I apologize for going off topic. if the front office made a move for Jon Gruden, what do you guys think he'd do with our current roster? Would our offense finally look as that of a real NFL team? Would our QBs benefit from a guy like him?
Click to expand...

I nominate Steelbtexan to be the Texans GM since he knows how to put a championship roster together.

The Coach should be our very own 76Texans.

Head of the medical staff should be CloakNNNdagger.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I nominate Steelbtexan to be the Texans GM since he knows how to put a championship roster together.

The Coach should be our very own 76Texans.

Head of the medical staff should be CloakNNNdagger.
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This seems like sarcasm but I'm not sure. Is it? Because I can tell you I've talked to CND when my friend was dying of cancer. He was a great comfort.
 
banned1976 said:
This seems like sarcasm but I'm not sure. Is it? Because I can tell you I've talked to CND when my friend was dying of cancer. He was a great comfort.
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The only part that was sarcasm, was towards Steel since he knows more than Rick Smith.

CND should be in charge of the Texans medical staff.
 
Mangler said:
I'm convinced that our offense will always be a joke under O'Brien. This game planning per opponent, no identity, excuse of a system has got to go! I wonder what it'll take for the front office to finally say "enough is enough?"

Anyway, I apologize for going off topic. if the front office made a move for Jon Gruden, what do you guys think he'd do with our current roster? Would our offense finally look as that of a real NFL team? Would our QBs benefit from a guy like him?
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WTF are you babbling about using Jon Gruden as some sort of measuring stick of what we should do?


Gruden was absolute trash in Tampa from an offensive standpoint. As a matter of fact Gruden's long tenure there has been the closest regime I could think of that mirrors what OB has done so far here in Houston. Gruden ran through a ton of QB's in Tampa while he was there, and wa so indecisive and could never stick with one even when guys were arguably over achieving or playing alright for him. His choices at QB weren't really good, and he never convinced management in Tampa to make any real active moves to get anyone either. It ultimately killed his voice in that locker room. The team was competitive and hung around 8-8 for the most part, but Gruden's influence on that offense was a complete disaster. OB's last 3 years have been very similar to Gruden's years in Tampa and I've thought that for the last year.

He did well in Oakland, but his team also had their best offensive season when he left as well.
 
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