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Uhh, yea, you could get him cheaper in that scenario.whiskeyrbl said:The only thing wrong here is in a few mocks on othr websites , some experts say that the Jets would take VY NO would take Lienart,and Tenn would take D'Brick, now if that was the case would you take Bush #4 ?
Thats a good point I actually think that would benefit us better than drafting BUsh or VY.Getting two players that can help you team get better right away is better than just one.bigTEXan8 said:That trade plays into favor of what we want. Because even if Bush falls to someone before us, we'll still have a shot at Brick, which is what we need more than Bush.
He's clearly the class of this draft at his position, a position that we are in desperate need at right now. Been in desperate need since the inception of the franchise for that matter.kbourda said:What is everyone's obsession with D'Brickashaw? Just asking.
He's a badass blocker. That's why.kbourda said:What is everyone's obsession with D'Brickashaw? Just asking.
He is the best LT prospect in the draft and OLine is definitely a need of ours, but I'd still prefer the more versatile Eric Winston which we could probably get in the 2nd round at #33.kbourda said:What is everyone's obsession with D'Brickashaw? Just asking.
Right now. But I think in a year or two, under an NFL training regiment and coaching, it wont even be close.cadahnic said:It is because he is the best LT in the draft, last year there was a small pocket of individuals that wanted Alex Barron. D'Brick is the best LT in the draft and he may also be able to play LG, but he is not the most complete Tackle in the draft that honor goes to Eric Winston. My basis for the ranking is speed, strength, toughness, nasty streak, FIQ, and ability to play multiple positions.
That's true...he didn't have a good year, but they also had a youngin back there playing QB. Was he a true-freshman or RS Fresh? Either way, Winston is still a solid pick-up.BradK10 said:Yall didn't watch Winston much this year then....he had a bad year.
Do you think Ferguson is a better LT prospect than Gallery coming out. Gallery was the full package and he would be the LT if Sims wasnt so solid. I understand your point and think it would be great if it ended up that way. I just think the talent difference between Williams and Lawson is pretty large and the talent difference between Ferguson and Winston(who was the best prospect before the injury) is much smaller. I also have a tendency to want the better on defense than on offense. Also, to Bradk10 yeah i watched Winston this year and other than his game against FS he was solid. He gave up less sacks than Ferguson and won the ACC Top Lineman award over him. That is a pretty impressive feat because the ACC has some linemen.BuffSoldier said:Right now. But I think in a year or two, under an NFL training regiment and coaching, it wont even be close.
That is why I personally like Ferguson/Lawson better than Williams/Winston. Feguson is faster, quicker and more athletic than any LT to enter the NFL draft in recent history. He can be taught better run blocking technique... he can get stronger , but Winston will never learn athleticism. When Brick gets stronger and learns to run block better he will be in another class of LT as Winston.
See, that was about to be my second point I was about to make. Because I saw what you saw. He had an up and down year this past year plus he had injuries. So i'm starting to believe most people are actually going off of what is being read and said rather than just seeing for yourself. Don't get me wrong D'Brick is good but I think you can get McNeil from Auburn just the same.BradK10 said:Yall didn't watch Winston much this year then....he had a bad year.
As an OT, zone blocking doesn't make a whole lot of difference as long as your are reasonably athletic, but Fergusons' run blocking is a decent bit worse than Winston, and I have to assume Kubiak is going to build his offense and passing game off of the run and play action, so Winston would be a much better fit in run blocking.Kaiser Toro said:I'll take both, but I like Winston. He is mean, he is versatile, he is one year off the injury and will gain more quickness and confidence with each passing day. He also at this point seems to be the best value depending on what mock you look at.
Who fits better in a zone blocking scheme?
Texian said:If the Jets are going to Franchise Abraham and are willing to trade him, their #4 pick and their 3rd RD pick to Houston for the #1 pick, this would be fair value. Houston could take D'Brick and will have addressed two of their most pressing needs, D & O line.
I like it. Let's do it.TheOgre said:If we traded down with the Jets we could take whoever is left out of Bush/Young/Ferguson (I think Lineart is a given in the top 3), Mario Williams, or AJ Hawk. That would be a nice place to be in. I like the trade.
I'm not saying that D'Brick isn't good. I just watch a ton of football, period. If talent in the ACC (which is a tough conference) is causing you to get knicked up, wait til you get to the NFL. I'm not completely sold on Pitts but he is better at LT than he is at LG. And another this is how can we make assumptions on how this guy or that guy will perform with the whole coaching staff from last year fired. We really don't know what we have. It's just a wait and see. lt makes me wonder why some are of the opinion that coaching can improve Carr's performance but nothing else about the team. That's all.cadahnic said:KBourda I am going of actual game film of the top OTs. Not the tv film but full span game film. D'Brick was knicked up this year, mainly due to his size and the amount of power rushers he saw during the year. McNeil is a RT and that would not upset me if you are confident in Pitts at LT, I am not but I like him at RT, but I think him and Winston would be interchangeable with Winston being the more athletic of the two. I am not sure what you saw when you watched the game film, but I would be interested to know.
The difference in #1 (3000) and #4 (1800) is 1200 points. Abraham was the 13th pick in the 2000 draft, value of 1050. If you include a 3rd RD pick from the Jets, value of 230 you will be close to fair value.MorKnolle said:As for the trade, I don't think that is quite fair value according to the charts, I think we should get the #4, their 2nd this year, and 2nd next year in addition to Abraham,
+1Hulk75 said:I like it too.
I wouldn't mind getting Abraham, but I don't like trading for him after he has been franchised, that would demand the Texans be responsible for getting him resigned just a year later. A sign-and-trade deal is the only way to consider any dealing with NYJTexian said:If the Jets are going to Franchise Abraham and are willing to trade him, their #4 pick and their 3rd RD pick to Houston for the #1 pick, this would be fair value. Houston could take D'Brick and will have addressed two of their most pressing needs, D & O line.
You don't necessarily go by what pick he was drafted at, I would look more at what value he currently has. I think he could possibly go to the Chiefs for the #20 or the Broncos at #22, so that is the most value I'd give him since that is about the maximum I think they could get out of him on their own, plus since he's a free agent and they are going to be way over the cap, the likelihood is that they won't be able to resign him anyway, so that will drop his value some and at least if he is involved in a trade like this they are getting some return value on his departure (they could franchise him and trade him so it won't cost anything against their cap, otherwise he's likely gone in free agency since they probably can't afford to keep him).Texian said:The difference in #1 (3000) and #4 (1800) is 1200 points. Abraham was the 13th pick in the 2000 draft, value of 1050. If you include a 3rd RD pick from the Jets, value of 230 you will be close to fair value.
This is similar to the trade between the Falcons #5 and the Chargers #1 when they switched positions in the 2001 draft.
1. Michael Vick, QB Virginia Tech (1) (from SD)
1. (5) Traded choice, WR Tim Dwight, third round choice and second round choice in 2002 to San Diego for first round pick
The difference in value is Abraham was selected in the 1st RD the 13th pick and Dwight selected in the 4th RD the 114th pick.
The idea of franchising a player then trading him would be that the recipient team resigns him to a long term deal as soon as he gets there so they would not have to pay him the franchise tag amount that first year, and by franchising him the team giving him up is not paying him any signing bonus so nothing will go against their cap for trading him. The Jets aren't going to sign him to a long-term deal with a signing bonus and then trade him to have that dead cap space, and he's not going to sign a long-term deal with no guaranteed money. Either way if he is signed to a long deal before he is traded, then he will still get just as much money as if we signed him to a new deal right after he gets here, only after the trade we are negotiating how much we are wanting to pay him rather than having an opposing team negotiate the amount of money that we will pay him.TreWardTxn said:I wouldn't mind getting Abraham, but I don't like trading for him after he has been franchised, that would demand the Texans be responsible for getting him resigned just a year later. A sign-and-trade deal is the only way to consider any dealing with NYJ
I am of the opinion that Carr can improve his performance because of coaching due to the fact that the offense isn't about 1 player, it's about a game plan that includes several players being on the same page. It amazes me how much stock people are throwing into the whole QB position by itself. Steve Young was in just as bad a situation as Carr and yet not a single persone would have predicted Young to be as successful as he was in his final year with the Bucs. Even more recently take Jake Plummer, unless you watched how Plummer had potential when he was with the Cards, you wouldn't have guessed he'd make it to the Pro-Bowl someday, especially after watching the Cards stink it up.kbourda said:lt makes me wonder why some are of the opinion that coaching can improve Carr's performance but nothing else about the team. That's all.
Yes without a doubt.whiskeyrbl said:The only thing wrong here is in a few mocks on othr websites , some experts say that the Jets would take VY NO would take Lienart,and Tenn would take D'Brick, now if that was the case would you take Bush #4 ?
maybe you have never seen a texans gamekbourda said:What is everyone's obsession with D'Brickashaw? Just asking.
do it!Texian said:If the Jets are going to Franchise Abraham and are willing to trade him, their #4 pick and their 3rd RD pick to Houston for the #1 pick, this would be fair value. Houston could take D'Brick and will have addressed two of their most pressing needs, D & O line.