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Patriots under investigation

infantrycak said:
Nope, not a whose ox is being gored deal. I simply don't see the 1-2 botched investigations/penalties a year affecting the overall on field quality of the entertainment enough to consider it anything more than an internal matter.

I also don't care if the director of a film is a screaming narcissist, the lead male a primadonna who walks off set if there aren't exactly 3 blueberries in his scone and the leading female is snorting coke out of a horse's feed bag. Was the movie good?

It's entertainment - the part I see is the part that counts.
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I expect God'ell to do his job competently. He has botched every investigation he's been in charge of and even trumped up the the charges. Bountygate/CTE/Ray Rice/Deflategate etc...

Figures you wouldn't care about this even though the gme you spend so much time talking about on this MB is being negatively affected.

I think you're just being argumentative, or can you tell me has the brand of football currently being played in the NFL as good as it was under Tagliabue? If the answer is no and you still support God'ell then we will never agree. (Again)
 
infantrycak said:
Nope, not a whose ox is being gored deal. I simply don't see the 1-2 botched investigations/penalties a year affecting the overall on field quality of the entertainment enough to consider it anything more than an internal matter.

I also don't care if the director of a film is a screaming narcissist, the lead male a primadonna who walks off set if there aren't exactly 3 blueberries in his scone and the leading female is snorting coke out of a horse's feed bag. Was the movie good?

It's entertainment - the part I see is the part that counts.
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You can't even make this argument. Like 3 years ago they had a huge debacle with the officials and had to use replacements even during the season for several weeks which creates a bigger lack of safety for the players on the field. It created all kinds of problems with calls on the field, and one team (Packers) actually lost a game on an easy call that went wrong at the end of the game. That was quite possibly Goodell's biggest blunder in his period for allowing replacement refs to screw up games for an entire pre season and in the regular season where one game like that could have been the difference in whether a team got home field advantage in a playoff game or even missed the playoffs.

As a lawyer, you know good and well that Double Jeopardy stunt they pulled on Ray Rice was completely unethical and then fraud with how the league lied about never seeing the video or knowing fully what happened. They screwed on his original punishment and let him off easy, and then panicked when the media saw what happened, and they lied about it and punished Ray Rice a 2nd time. As a lawyer, you know good and well that was totally corrupt when the league should have just admitted their fault and apologized for screwing up their original punishment.

If any of these incidents happened to the Texans you'd argue this stuff until the end of time, and you'd be all over the place saying how it has effected the quality of the sport. You may still like it as it is, but to suggest that Goodell hasn't effected the quality of the sport in all types of ways is disingenuous even for you.
 
infantrycak said:
There's only 2 people with anything close to your perspective - you, a Goodell hater and Texecutioner, a Patriots fan.
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That's your opinion.

Check out the stories related to God'ell on PFT, even the ones not related to the Pats/Brady and I think that may be more representative of NFL fans than what you state.

You failed to answer my question, is the NFL a better product to watch since God'ell took over from Tagliabue? You got it wrong, I dont hate God'ell, I do hate what he/owners are doing to the game I grew up with that is what thade the NFL the #1 sport in this country.

Soon enough under God'ells lack of leadership it wont be. Look at the MLB and what it was as an example.
 
steelbtexan said:
That's your opinion.

Check out the stories related to God'ell on PFT, even the ones not related to the Pats/Brady and I think that may be more representative of NFL fans than what you state.
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On this MB obviously.

You failed to answer my question, is the NFL a better product to watch since God'ell took over from Tagliabue? You got it wrong, I dont hate God'ell, I do hate what he/owners are doing to the game I grew up with that is what thade the NFL the #1 sport in this country.

Soon enough under God'ells lack of leadership it wont be. Look at the MLB and what it was as an example.
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I think the NFL is just as good now, slightly different due to OWNER changes, but just as good.
 
infantrycak said:
There's only 2 people with anything close to your strike fueled by anti-Goodell fan antipathy perspective - you, a Goodell hater and Texecutioner, a Patriots fan.
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People all over the web on any sports site bash him relentlessly and have for years. To even remotely suggest that Goodell doesn't have a ton of football fans that despise him and the job that he has done since day one is just you lying. A guy who sits all day on a message board knows that as well anyone, so stop with this act of obtusity that Goodell isn't widely hated by most dozens of NFL fans. He has all types of situations with different teams where fans got irate over Goodell's handling of the players on their teams and their situations.
 
infantrycak said:
Wow, neither one of you could catch an implication if it hit you in both hands.

Y'all have a good one.
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You put yourself in this corner with those claims. Don't sit here with these cheesy little one liners when its clear you just shoveled a ton of manure for everyone to walk through when you act like you're not aware of the disgust that fans from all sorts of teams have displayed towards Goodell. He was booed every time he took the stage at the draft. He is looked at by most people about as well as Jimmy Carter was remembered. Maybe you don't agree due to the thread you're in, but the denial of it all says more about your ability to just argue.
 
steelbtexan said:
Well, most hardcore fans would disagree with you for the reasons listed in many of the posts above.
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If the NFL only catered to the hardcore fans, it would probably only be 1/10th of what it is now. Honestly most of the money probably comes from the non-hardcore fan base; as much as that may disappoint you.

Besides it's not like the Patriots haven't created their own spotlight over the years. That's why they can't fart without someone writing about it.
 
ESAD2-14 said:
If the NFL only catered to the hardcore fans, it would probably only be 1/10th of what it is now. Honestly most of the money probably comes from the non-hardcore fan base; as much as that may disappoint you.

Besides it's not like the Patriots haven't created their own spotlight over the years. That's why they can't fart without someone writing about it.
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Without hardcore fans the NFL wouldn't be what it is today? So sorry I disagree with you.
 
You don't need to be sorry. I'm just saying the NFL has to consider all of it's fans. Not just the ones that eat, sh*t, and sleep football.
 
ESAD2-14 said:
You don't need to be sorry. I'm just saying the NFL has to consider all of it's fans. Not just the ones that eat, sh*t, and sleep football.
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Thet do, but under God'ell they cater to them more than they do the hardcore fans. Funny thing is when the NFL fall begins and it will happen, it will be blamed on the concussion issue. While this may be somewhat true, the real reason for the fall of the NFL will be 1. The owners greed. 2. The incompetence of God'ell and his minions.
 
3) the players become more than the game.


For example.. basketball..the jordan rules started it all. It also makes me sick that the league created a rule against hack-a-shaq..geezus... the guy is making millions and instead of working his ass off the shoot free throw area so teams would quit it. The league protects those players

In the case of football. If manning or brady start taking certain hits. The refs flag the defensemen where as if the same hits are applied to john doe. The refs turn a blind eye. That goies for certain receivers always looking for a flag. Maybe it is my bias for the Texans that i notice things like that.
 
Wolf said:
3) the players become more than the game.


For example.. basketball..the jordan rules started it all. It also makes me sick that the league created a rule against hack-a-shaq..geezus... the guy is making millions and instead of working his ass off the shoot free throw area so teams would quit it. The league protects those players

In the case of football. If manning or brady start taking certain hits. The refs flag the defensemen where as if the same hits are applied to john doe. The refs turn a blind eye. That goies for certain receivers always looking for a flag. Maybe it is my bias for the Texans that i notice things like that.
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Nah, I notice it too. That's why I wasn't sad to see Manning retire. He definitely got preferential treatment.
 
steelbtexan said:
Thet do, but under God'ell they cater to them more than they do the hardcore fans. Funny thing is when the NFL fall begins and it will happen, it will be blamed on the concussion issue. While this may be somewhat true, the real reason for the fall of the NFL will be 1. The owners greed. 2. The incompetence of God'ell and his minions.
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Wait... they're supposed to cater to the minority?? Why?
 
JB said:
Wait... they're supposed to cater to the minority?? Why?
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because tailoring your product to the purist minority is a MUCH better and more profitable business model than making it entertaining to the masses
e'erbody know dat
:D
 
JB said:
Wait... they're supposed to cater to the minority?? Why?
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Example:

They need to keep the game the way it was when a catch was 3 guys sitting at a bar and all 3 said that was a catch then it was a catch. In God'ell's NFL who knows what a catch is.

Why did God'ell push for basically removing the most exciting play in football? Kickoff return, Yep God'ell has been great for the NFL. He's really interested in putting the best product possible on the field.

I'm glad y'all like the current state of the NFL. Y'all probably enjoy arena football.
 
JB said:
Wait... they're supposed to cater to the minority?? Why?
Click to expand...

Example:

They need to keep the game the way it was when a catch was 3 guys sitting at a bar and all 3 said that was a catch then it was a catch. In God'ell's NFL who knows what a catch is.

Why did God'ell push for basically removing the most exciting play in football? Kickoff return, Yep God'ell has been great for the NFL. He's really interested in putting the best product possible on the field.

I'm glad y'all like the current state of the NFL. Y'all probably enjoy arena football.
 
steelbtexan said:
Why did God'ell push for basically removing the most exciting play in football? Kickoff return, Yep God'ell has been great for the NFL. He's really interested in putting the best product possible on the field.
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Disagree on that being most exciting but anyway they were very clear why the KO was changed - safety.

And who says that was his idea? Your ire might better be directed to the Rules & Competition Committee. They're generally who initiates and largely determines these things subject to owner approval.
 
infantrycak said:
Disagree on that being most exciting but anyway they were very clear why the KO was changed - safety.

And who says that was his idea? Your ire might better be directed to the Rules & Competition Committee. They're generally who initiates and largely determines these things subject to owner approval.
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If the commish wants a rule changed that rule gets changed, even though it does go thru the rules committee. But you know that.

Do you think God'ell has done a good job running the NFL?
 
steelbtexan said:
If the commish wants a rule changed that rule gets changed, even though it does go thru the rules committee. But you know that.
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I see no evidence of that. But so what even if it were true? You're assuming he initiated the KO change. Most of the rules changes come from members of the committee and teams submitting proposed rule changes.

Despite your cutsy little nickname he's not God.

Do you think God'ell has done a good job running the NFL?
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With some specific errors like Ray Rice, overall he's done fine. League is chugging along with a good product that is paying dramatically more than when he took the position.
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont, but hardcore fans are what lead football to be the most popular sport in America. That and unfortunately fantasy football.
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NFL football was already the most popular sport going, but fantasy football pushed it to the level of dominance it now has. By and large these are not hardcore fans, as most of them couldn't tell you about defensive players (IDP leagues excluded), or offensive linemen

steelbtexan said:
Example:

Why did God'ell push for basically removing the most exciting play in football? Kickoff return, Yep God'ell has been great for the NFL.
Click to expand...
steelbtexan said:
If the commish wants a rule changed that rule gets changed, even though it does go thru the rules committee. But you know that.
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Wait, what? Goodell pushed for removing the kickoff, and Goodell gets every rule change he wants, and we still have kickoffs? I'm confused (or you're confused - yeah, I'll go with you're confused!)

I'm glad y'all like the current state of the NFL. Y'all probably enjoy arena football.
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Said the man who monetarily supports the NFL far more than most posters on this board.
 
steelbtexan said:
Example:

They need to keep the game the way it was when a catch was 3 guys sitting at a bar and all 3 said that was a catch then it was a catch. In God'ell's NFL who knows what a catch is.
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But 97 other people at the bar say it was not a catch... was it still a catch?
 
infantrycak said:
I see no evidence of that. But so what even if it were true? You're assuming he initiated the KO change. Most of the rules changes come from members of the committee and teams submitting proposed rule changes.

Despite your cutsy little nickname he's not God.



With some specific errors like Ray Rice, overall he's done fine. League is chugging along with a good product that is paying dramatically more than when he took the position.
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Ask Brady if God'ell is playing the role of God.

How about the Star Cps guys etc....

The product is nowhere near as good as it was under Tagliabue. IMHO and this is where we disagree. I really dont care if the NFL is making more $$$$ under God'ell. Fantasy Football has alot to do with this and I dont recall God'ell inventing FF.
 
Pats unlikely to owe NFL legals fees for Brady case, but . . . .
May 29, 2016, 2:54 PM EDT

With the Patriots getting involved in quarterback Tom Brady’s effort to overturn the four-game suspension imposed against him by filing a friend-of-the-court brief with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, the Patriots possibly have could end up pick up a portion of Park Avenue’s legal tab.

The folks at PatsPulpit.com have uncovered a 1997 NFL resolution that arguably makes the Patriots responsible to reimburse the NFL for its attorney’s fees based on the team’s decision to become involved in the case.

Here’s the relevant language: “If any member club . . . initiates, joins, has a direct, football-related financial interest in, or offers substantial assistance to any lawsuit or other legal, regulatory, or administrative proceeding (‘Claim’) against the League . . . each Claiming Party shall be obligated jointly and severally to reimburse the League . . . for all of such party’s legal fees, litigation expenses, and costs incurred in such Claim if the Claiming Party (or the third party that received substantial assistance from the Claiming Party, or in whose Claim the Claiming Party has a direct, football-related financial Interest) does not obtain a judgment on the merits which substantially achieves, in substance and amount, the remedy sought.”

For a variety of reasons, this language probably doesn’t apply to the Patriots in this specific case.

First, it was the NFL and not Brady who initiated the lawsuit. Thus, there is no claim “against the League.” The league filed a lawsuit in an effort to uphold Brady’s suspension.

Second, the Patriots arguably don’t have a “direct, football-related financial interest” in the case. The Patriots won’t lose any money at the box office if Brady serves his suspension. While the suspension could make it harder for the Patriots to get to the playoffs (and thus host playoff games and make even more money), this would seem to be more of an indirect football-related financial interest, a byproduct of the suspension itself.

Third, the NFL will incur only minimal additional expenses as a result of the brief filed by the Patriots, apart from the 0.5 hours that one or two (or more) lawyers will bill to the league for reading the eight-page document. Parties to a lawsuit don’t respond directly to friends-of-the-court briefs, and the arguments made by the Patriots track the arguments made by Brady and the NFL Players Association.

As evidenced by the title to this item, there’s a but. It comes from this provision from the 1997 resolution: “The Commissioner . . . shall determine the amount of said legal fees, litigation expenses, and costs, and such determination shall be final and binding.”

While the resolution doesn’t expressly state that the Commissioner also will determine the threshold question of whether fees are even owed, it’s a safe bet that both questions fall within the unassailable, do-what-I-want discretion of the Commissioner. So even if the arguments favor the Patriots, the Commissioner could choose to pick the team’s pockets for any, some, or all of the legal fees incurred by the NFL from this point forward, and there really won’t be anything the Patriots can do about it.
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steelbtexan said:
Example:

They need to keep the game the way it was when a catch was 3 guys sitting at a bar and all 3 said that was a catch then it was a catch. In God'ell's NFL who knows what a catch is.
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Now this I totally agree with. Why the hell do we, after nearly a century of football at all levels, need two pages of verbiage to describe what a catch is??
And even still, nobody knows what Goodell thinks constitutes a catch.
 
ObsiWan said:
Now this I totally agree with. Why the hell do we, after nearly a century of football at all levels, need two pages of verbiage to describe what a catch is??
And even still, nobody knows what Goodell thinks constitutes a catch.
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It's to justify instant replay and a result from being media driven. Someone always looking to whine... Owners I mean
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont, but hardcore fans are what lead football to be the most popular sport in America. That and unfortunately fantasy football.
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I agree with your history, but times have changed. Many hardcore fans have been priced out of even going to games these days. The lower bowl at NRG has so many corporate-owned PSLs that today's NFL no longer resembles the hardcore games of the 1970s. Just look at all the empty seats at the beginning of third quarters. Hardcore fans are in their seats for that second half kickoff. But, all those empty seats reveal otherwise with regards to the type of fans at games these days.

The entertainment corporations care about ONE thing: profit. They do not care where it comes from, so if corporate and casual fans feed more money to the beast than hardcore fans, guess where the attention goes? Franchises cater to those who pay the bills, so luxury stadiums with lots of whistles and bells are now commonplace in every sport.

We cannot live in the past, man. The NFL sure doesn't, unless it's to make a profit off the history of it all.
 
Double Barrel said:
I agree with your history, but times have changed. Many hardcore fans have been priced out of even going to games these days. The lower bowl at NRG has so many corporate-owned PSLs that today's NFL no longer resembles the hardcore games of the 1970s. Just look at all the empty seats at the beginning of third quarters. Hardcore fans are in their seats for that second half kickoff. But, all those empty seats reveal otherwise with regards to the type of fans at games these days.

The entertainment corporations care about ONE thing: profit. They do not care where it comes from, so if corporate and casual fans feed more money to the beast than hardcore fans, guess where the attention goes? Franchises cater to those who pay the bills, so luxury stadiums with lots of whistles and bells are now commonplace in every sport.

We cannot live in the past, man. The NFL sure doesn't, unless it's to make a profit off the history of it all.
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Agreed,

But to say the game is better to watch now is disingenuous.

To each their own I guess.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed,

But to say the game is better to watch now is disingenuous.

To each their own I guess.
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from home yes, the game is better to watch..the gameday experience however,I don't think its gotten that much better. I know too many people who are bigger fans of the tailgate experience than the actual team..but then again i'm a guy who prefers to watch from home so..
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed,

But to say the game is better to watch now is disingenuous.

To each their own I guess.
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I think it is relative. I liked the big hits decades ago. "Jacked Up" on ESPN was always a must watch for me. I have VHS tapes by NFL Films celebrating those hits.

Now, though, realizing the impact on the player's body and potential long term brain trauma, I feel like I'm rooting for a blood sport to wish it was still that way. My mindset has changed. I do not want players to live with life long injuries because I want to be entertained. I only need to think of Earl Campbell, a childhood larger than life hero to me, and to see him today, barely able to walk, makes me sad.

So while I still consider myself a 'hardcore fan', I'm also a modern fan that understands that change is necessary to keep our beloved sport alive.

As far as saying better, again, it is relative. We just saw one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game retire. Another all time great, Brady, is not that far behind, even if he lasts a few more seasons.

I simply cannot say that yesterday's game is "better". Yes, times have changed, but I'm enjoying the games as much as I ever have, tbh.

"Disingenuous" is a dangerous word to throw around when talking about individual perspectives and opinions. You simply cannot know what each fan thinks, and to basically call everyone that disagrees with your perception to be insincere and ignorant (the definition of disingenuous) is more about your own perspective than anyone else.

btw, passing is more exciting to watch than running. So yeah, the ongoing trend to increase the passing game is a trend to increase excitement in the game. And this has been happening since the forward pass was introduced to football in 1906. A rule change that was also about improving the safety of the sport.
 
I'm completely fine with the hitting rules. I want the other guy to drop the ball, not suffer serious medical issues in his golden years.

& it's not just the guy getting hit. We're seeing guys that were laying the wood affected by years & years of leading with their head.

I'm still seeing a bunch of hard hits... many of them wrongfully penalized, bit I think they're figuring it out.

When I was a kid, we used to play tackle without pads. We didn't go for the head, or the knees. Players just need to look at it like that.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm completely fine with the hitting rules. I want the other guy to drop the ball, not suffer serious medical issues in his golden years.

& it's not just the guy getting hit. We're seeing guys that were laying the wood affected by years & years of leading with their head.

I'm still seeing a bunch of hard hits... many of them wrongfully penalized, bit I think they're figuring it out.

When I was a kid, we used to play tackle without pads. We didn't go for the head, or the knees. Players just need to look at it like that.
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The bolded point is nail on the head. I was the same way. Always played street ball and we just avoided using our heads as spears. Sort of like the rugby tackles that the Seahawks are teaching their players.
 
Tom Brady said:
I'm very grateful for the overwhelming support I've received from Mr. Kraft, the Kraft family, coach Belichick, my coaches and teammates, the NFLPA, my agents, my loving family and most of all, our fans. It has been a challenging 18 months and I have made the difficult decision to no longer proceed with the legal process. I'm going to work hard to be the best player I can be for the New England Patriots and I look forward to having the opportunity to return to the field this fall.
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Just glad this stupid mess is done.
 
Taking the first four games off probably wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to an aging QB. Especially one that is almost guaranteed to win his division anyway.
 
steelbtexan said:
God'ell's NFL might as well be the WWE.
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Goodell's NFL is a result of the agreement by the players to the current CBA.

The power he's got has been specifically granted to him by that CBA that the players overwhelmingly voted to accept, so blame them. Confirmed (or perhaps "Upheld" is a better word) by both the Brady and the even more recent Adrian Peterson legal proceedings.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Goodell's NFL is a result of the agreement by the players to the current CBA.

The power he's got has been specifically granted to him by that CBA that the players overwhelmingly voted to accept, so blame them. Confirmed (or perhaps "Upheld" is a better word) by both the Brady and the even more recent Adrian Peterson legal proceedings.
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Correct,

But I dont have to like how God'ell is using those powers granted to him. God'ell's NFL is turning more and more into the WWE. See the Peterson/Brady suspensions, they change the competitive balance of the NFL. Another example: does anybody really know what a catch is anymore? Any hard hit is a penalty. These problems didn't exist under Tagliabue.

Do you like the NFL under God'ell today as much as you liked the NFL under Tags? I dont and I'm begining to lose interest.
 
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