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Don't Ignore the Defense

P

profan

Waterboy
All this talk of reggie bush, and vince young has me a little worried. Lets not forget about the defense. It was equally as bad last year and has many holes. Sure would like another corner, safety, and some additional help at linebacker. One person is not going to save this team and concentrating on just one side of the ball will not help either. Trade down, and go after a couple lineman including a tight end and then concentrate on defense. This would make the most sense in my opinion. Then we would have both the bush fans, and young fans bashing the front office all over this board.
 
Good post. I like where you were going w/that and i agree. I read an awesome article somewhere recently ,and i'd like to punch myself b/c I can't remember where, that talked about how important the O and D-lines are to the 'core' of a team. You want to have strong line of scrimmage presence and you get that w/solid lines on both sides of the ball.

Sure I want Vince or Reggie just like the next fan, but if we have a team that can fight in the trenches and can take you to the big dance, i'll choose the later.
 
I've felt that the defense has cost the Texans as many games as the offense has, although some people will debate and blame Carr. I think the D could use some serious work. How many times did they run away and hide when the team needed them the most? That's why I'm all for trading away the first pick, that way they get numerous amounts of picks that they can use to fill some serious holes. Get a solid safety, d-lineman, and for bloody hell, some o-lineman. They've only sat on their *** for 4 years now, maybe they'll finally get it.
 
profan said:
All this talk of reggie bush, and vince young has me a little worried.
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Just remember who is doing all the talking. It's not the Texans front office!

Everyone doing the talking - fans & media - are the ones with no decisions to make.

I have no doubt that they will address the defense in some capacity. We'll have to see who our DC is before we have an idea of the direction we might take, though. First things first. :howdy:
 
I wrote on the Draft board that after watching Palamalu(sp?) and Porter and what a D could do that I wouldn't ming going down and then getting D. My only problem with that is that besides AJ I'm not completely sold on DD or Carr or the lone with those two. I know you can address the line with the other 3 picks in the Top 66 and I'm all for that if we got Bush. I guess if you got D you just hope that the line improves with the additions you make and new coaching.
 
Defense??? No one is talking about the defense, so it must be fine. Maybe some need to be reminded. Based on the numbers the 2005 defense was worse than the offense.

Defensive Rankings: Rush: 32(last), Pass: 23, Points Allowed: 32

Offensive Rankings: Rush: 15, Pass: 30, Points Scored: 25

So honestly it doesn't matter who the QB is or who is drafted first, a team cannot make the playoffs with defensive rankings like that. Granted, both sides of the ball need major upgrades, but no QB in the history of the game would be in the playoffs with a defense giving up 27 points a game.
 
CarrIsFine said:
Defense??? No one is talking about the defense, so it must be fine. Maybe some need to be reminded. Based on the numbers the 2005 defense was worse than the offense.
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No one is talking about the real problem behind the defense: Charlie Casserly.

Our defense is less talented now than it was when we were an expansion team.
 
The defense was a real PILE, but interestingly, they racked up 37 sacks. Not great, but not bad either. Most seemed to come near the end of the season when all of a sudden we seemed to be more aggresive and low and behold, we started getting to the QB. Based on the new defensive guys being young, I look for us to be a real aggresive defense. Might bite us in the butt on occasion, but I rather that then being passive.
 
edo783 said:
The defense was a real PILE, but interestingly, they racked up 37 sacks. Not great, but not bad either. Most seemed to come near the end of the season when all of a sudden we seemed to be more aggresive and low and behold, we started getting to the QB. Based on the new defensive guys being young, I look for us to be a real aggresive defense. Might bite us in the butt on occasion, but I rather that then being passive.
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I attribute our late sucess to two things.

1.) Guys were playing for their jobs, especially the young ones.

2.) We were playing some of the worst teams in the league. We were playing teams who's o-line is only slightly better than ours.
 
I agree that we definatly have too many needs to address to not trade down. I think o-line is obviosly the biggest need but the defense is not far behind and should not be ignored. I would like to the kind of guys on both sides of the line who cause scars and lifelong nightmares. Football does begin in in trenches and every truely successful team has a solid core. Some develop the core from free agency,some from drafting, some from great coaching, most do it with a combination of things. I dont care how we get them but we need to get bruiser linemen who dictate to the other team. We have a great asset in our draft choices this year and many holes to fill, Lets trade down to fill them.
 
jmerog said:
I would like to the kind of guys on both sides of the line who cause scars and lifelong nightmares.
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that was supposed to read: I would like to SEE the kind of guys on both sides of the line who cause scars and lifelong nightmares.


Scary people!!!
 
jmerog said:
Scary people!!!
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YUP, knuckle dragin, sloberin & snarlin trained killers works for me. Just body parts left of the other team when the final gun sounds. :yahoo: But they have to be kind to Puppies and babies.:redtowel:
 
Kubiak said that the Texans would run a 4 - 3 defense mostly. So I am not a defensive type person but if it is 4-3 then what are the most pressing needs

cb - D-Rob
cb - Petey/ P BUCH
ss - Glen Earl
fs - CC Brown
dl - T Johnson, smith, Payne, Walker, Ioane, Deloach

olb - Peek/Babin/Anderson/Polk......

ilb - Wong/Greenwood......

:stirpot:
 
I think the mistake alot of people are making is the assumption that we MUST address the oline in the first 2 rounds.

Its important to remember that the Denver Oline only has one guy who isnt a 4th round pick or lower.

Also, remember that interior Olinemen, for the most part, are 3rd-5th round picks.. you dont see alot of them going higher than that unless they are something else.. and interior olinemen are our biggest need on the line (though a tackle wouldnt be bad). Also, the Denver system makes use of undersized linemen.. which fall even farther... so we could realisitically grab us a really good lineman in the 3rd, who fell because he was too small to be considered "elite". Someone like Greg Eslinger the center.. or Daryn Colledge the OT.

we have 2 thirds..and I could see our first lineman taken falling to that round. It might not be what people want.. but I think it is probably more likely. We will see though.
 
we have 2 thirds..and I could see our first lineman taken falling to that round. It might not be what people want.. but I think it is probably more likely. We will see though.[/QUOTE]

that would be their way of sticking it to the man...:stooges: but they are the man...
 
Grid said:
Its important to remember that the Denver Oline only has one guy who isnt a 4th round pick or lower.
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Atlanta's line is also comprised of predominately of later picks--one 2nd, one 5th and 3 7th rounders.
 
i agree with grid on this one, although i think colledge is more rd 2 value, and id be tempted to take him, and winston if hes there in the 2nd i almost have to take

zone blocking interior linemen like mangold, eslinger, setterstrom should go 3rd-4th rounds
 
i don't think they will ignore the defense...they haven't ignored it in any of the previous offseasons.....examples

did not keep foley
did not keep foreman
did not keep glenn
did not keep sharper
promoted faggins
did not keep mcree
did not keep wright
drafted a backup DT in the first round in the hopes that everyone would be healthy and he would never see the field

also they have improved in other ways

traded 2 picks for babin..then benched him
traded 2 picks for buchanon..then benched him
 
The problem with the defense is that 7 of the top 11 players for the 2006 cap are on offense. Those 11 players will represent approx. 50.5 million of a 92 million dollar cap.

Carr will be at 7.92 if we extend. McKinney is 4.7. Get rid of each of the them for 12.6 of goodness and trade down in the draft. We then become players in the draft and the free agent market and have a fresh start in the Kubiak era.
 
TexasAggie said:
Kubiak said that the Texans would run a 4 - 3 defense mostly. So I am not a defensive type person but if it is 4-3 then what are the most pressing needs

cb - D-Rob
cb - Petey/ P BUCH
ss - Glen Earl
fs - CC Brown
dl - T Johnson, smith, Payne, Walker, Ioane, Deloach

olb - Peek/Babin/Anderson/Polk......

ilb - Wong/Greenwood......

:stirpot:
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u wouldnt get a lick of a pass-rush with that d-line. in a 4-3, the d-line needs to provide the pass rush, not the outside linebackers. ur line would proly be something like this: babin, seth payne, travis johnson or robaire smith, and peek. that way u have the two speedsters on the outsides in their original positions b4 they were drafted and u have 2 very good run stuffers in the middle.
 
Losing Foreman off the defense wasn't a mistake. The guy racked up a lot of tackles, but they were all 6 yards down the field. Glenn and Sharper turned out to be mistakes last year. Even though neither had great seasons last year, they could have helped. Who in the world know what Foley would do in San Diego. Well, besides Marty and his well run 3-4 defense.

If the Texans are switching to a 4-3 they will need to address the D-line. Mario Williams would be a great 4-3 DE. This would mean trading down, though. There are guys available later in the draft, but with only Babin as a possible DE on a 4-3 this team will need some assistance. You can't address the O-Line, and defensive problems unless you trade that #1 for a couple extra picks.

For Linebackers I guess the main problem is who would be the 3? They probably have enough players it's just a question of who on the current roster can play what. Greenwood did play a year at MLB in Miami and Polk showed a lot in his opportunities this year and could also be a factor. Wong to me is a good WLB, once he's healthy. He is good in coverage and has quickness. How much is retained after an injury, though, could be a concern. He also played some MLB for Minnesota. Peek doesn't play the run very well, and is lost in pass coverage at times. He might be relegated to situational pass rusher unless he can bulk up and move to DE.

Secondary can use help. It's obvious that a corner is a need. Anwar Phillips from Penn State is someone that could be a nice compliment to Dunta and would be available in the 2nd or maybe even 3rd round.
 
TexanFanInCC said:
u wouldnt get a lick of a pass-rush with that d-line. in a 4-3, the d-line needs to provide the pass rush, not the outside linebackers. ur line would proly be something like this: babin, seth payne, travis johnson or robaire smith, and peek. that way u have the two speedsters on the outsides in their original positions b4 they were drafted and u have 2 very good run stuffers in the middle.
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Walker gets the best pass rush/penetration of any of the DLmen the Texans have and you don't have him in the lineup. He has the skills to play LDE. Walker will be playing as a starter next year.

LDE Walker
DT's--Payne, Smith
RDE--Babin/Peek/FA/draft pick

TJ rotating with Walker and replacing Payne or Smith on passing downs in the interior.
 
I think walker is the best d lineman we have. A little outspoken and i think that is a good thing. If he could only stay healthy for most of the year.
 
BigBull17 said:
Walker would play DT in a 4-3.
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Maybe, maybe not. Every one of the DLmen on our roster is nominally a 4-3 DT. The Texans are going to have to come up with some players for the ends. Of the DLmen on the roster, Walker has the best skill set and style for playing LDE and IMO would clearly be better against both the run and as a pass rusher than Babin or Peek as a full time LDE. We'll have to see how the coaches deal with adapting our personnel to a 4-3 alignment. It is likely to take having some folks try out roles that are not "normal" for them.
 
CarrIsFine said:
Defense???...
So honestly it doesn't matter who the QB is or who is drafted first, a team cannot make the playoffs with defensive rankings like that. ...
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So, I havent really loved watching the Texans for quite some time, but now with changes it looks like I will be back.

But, Does this Defense have the talent and heart to be a contender? And, is Carr's offensive line really that bad? Or, is it just really bad coaching?
 
infantrycak said:
Maybe, maybe not. Every one of the DLmen on our roster is nominally a 4-3 DT. The Texans are going to have to come up with some players for the ends. Of the DLmen on the roster, Walker has the best skill set and style for playing LDE and IMO would clearly be better against both the run and as a pass rusher than Babin or Peek as a full time LDE. We'll have to see how the coaches deal with adapting our personnel to a 4-3 alignment. It is likely to take having some folks try out roles that are not "normal" for them.
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I believe that Walker played some LDE with the Jags. If we stick with a 4 man line on passing downs, I'd like to see Peek and Babin at the ends and Walker and TJ at the tackle spots. That should provide a pretty decent pass-rush, but we will have to see.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
The problem with the defense is that 7 of the top 11 players for the 2006 cap are on offense. Those 11 players will represent approx. 50.5 million of a 92 million dollar cap.

Carr will be at 7.92 if we extend. McKinney is 4.7. Get rid of each of the them for 12.6 of goodness and trade down in the draft. We then become players in the draft and the free agent market and have a fresh start in the Kubiak era.
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Good post...but i keep Carr
 
Couldn't agree more. There's a reason that "defense wins championships" has become a cliche.

I think we've ALREADY made a significant upgrade to the offense with this hiring alone!

Let's trade the pick and get a couple of defensive starters in the first round, then add a nice TE and OL in rounds 2-3.
 
top need:
True 4-3 defensive end. Walker could be servicable as an end and Babin and peek would play the other but with 3-300 + lbs. D-Linemen we could be vulnerable to toss, sweep and stretch plays. To compinsate we'd need to have a smaller, faster OLB thus leaving us more vulnerable in running situations. A true 4-3 defensive end would place many of our starters into their true possitions.

secondary needs:
A viable #2 corner. P-Buc and Faggins just didnt get the job done last season. Maybe with Kubiak comming into town both players will shape up but having a ball hawk on the opposite side of Dunta would be a huge pluss.

A versitale saftey. C.C. Brown and Glenn Earl are both young and productive but it would be outstanding to be able to have a saftey like Ed Reed, Troy Palamalu (sp) or Sean Taylor roaming the secondary.

A true MLB. I believe that Wong or Polk would be servicable being the captain of this defense but having a Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher type of MLB would really be something sweet.
 
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