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Let's just imagine we do trade....

thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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.... with Tenessee..... and with the Third pick, we take D'Brick


what happens to bush??

Forget about why it is/isn't a good idea to take Ferguson with the #3 pick, that isn't important to this discussion. the Fact is we didn't draft Reggie, so where does he go??
 
Okay, then if Reggie is all that, why does he drop to the 4th pick and Vince gets picked up by Tennesee??

What's so different between our team and Tennesee(sp)?? Why is it such a big deal if we pass on Reggie, but Tennesee & N.O. will(without a doubt) pass on Reggie?? & it understandable??

If you're in the Trade Down group, that's fine, this isn't intended to be a trade down vs... anything else. Neither is it a Reggie vs Vince thread... this is just a Why should we draft Reggie @ #1 overall.
 
New Orleans is going to pass on Reggie Bush because they have no quarterback and they just signed Deuce McAlister to a 8 year $68 million contract.
 
He (Reggie Bush) might go to Tenn, I hadn't really thought of it. I just assumed that since McNair is nearly done they will need a young QB, as Volek is likely to jump ship soon.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Tenn drafted Bush, reconnect with Bush and Chow.

The only way VY goes before Bush in the draf tis if we trade the pick.
 
tulexan said:
New Orleans is going to pass on Reggie Bush because they have no quarterback and they just signed Deuce McAlister to a 8 year $68 million contract.
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And we've signed DD:

Morknolle said:
Domanick Davis......$3,806,160 to keep, $8,424,640 if cut/traded, 25 years old, signed thru 2009: Whether people like it or not we've signe him as our franchise RB.
Click to expand...
 
I dont think Tennesee trades up with us, at first I thought about it, actually started a thread about how we could trade down twice via Tenn, then down to NY to the 4th and pick up Feguson and 2 second rounders and a 1st from next year, but I though about it, either way it goes they get one of the big 3, they are able to connect a Trojan with his former Off. Coordinator or they put VY with his mentor, they have no reason to trade up. But we might trade down to 4 and let NY pick Bush.
 
BuffSoldier said:
I dont think Tennesee trades up with us, at first I thought about it, actually started a thread about how we could trade down twice via Tenn, then down to NY to the 4th and pick up Feguson and 2 second rounders and a 1st from next year, but I though about it, either way it goes they get one of the big 3, they are able to connect a Trojan with his former Off. Coordinator or they put VY with his mentor, they have no reason to trade up. But we might trade down to 4 and let NY pick Bush.
Click to expand...

That would be a decent move, imo.
 
thunderkyss said:
Okay, then if Reggie is all that, why does he drop to the 4th pick and Vince gets picked up by Tennesee??

What's so different between our team and Tennesee(sp)?? Why is it such a big deal if we pass on Reggie, but Tennesee & N.O. will(without a doubt) pass on Reggie?? & it understandable??

If you're in the Trade Down group, that's fine, this isn't intended to be a trade down vs... anything else. Neither is it a Reggie vs Vince thread... this is just a Why should we draft Reggie @ #1 overall.
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Because that is the only position we will be able to take him in.

If Tennesse trades up it is to grab Bush or Leinart, not Vince Young. New Orleans would probably pass on Vince Young and go with Cutler. They have no interest in what THEY VIEW as a better Micheal Brooks clone, they have been the Mobile QB route and they have no interest this time around.
In your senario Bush goes #1 to Tenn, Leinart goes #2, D'Brick goes #3(even though he probably won't be in the top 5 in reality), #4 New York AJ Hawk (too much $$$$ invested in Pennington), #5 Greenbay not VY, they got Aaron Rogers last year, #6 San Fran won't take VY because they got Alex Smith, #7 Oakland Raiders take Vince Young.

In reality if the Texans traded down to #3 they wouldn't take D'Brick, they would take Vince Young probably. But if they don't take VY then he is going to slip to the 7th pick unless someone trades up to get him. I wouldn't be totally shocked if Cutler snuck in before him.

Keep in mind in an ESPN poll done after the rose bowl, every single state(including Texas) voted that Reggie Bush should be the top pick in the draft.

I am a Longhorn, but after the emotion wears off and the scouts get down and dirty with the film, VY is not going to be graded as high as people think.
 
LBC_Justin said:
Because that is the only position we will be able to take him in.

If Tennesse trades up it is to grab Bush or Leinart, not Vince Young.

I am a Longhorn, but after the emotion wears off and the scouts get down and dirty with the film, VY is not going to be graded as high as people think.
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This is the first I've heard of anyone other than us taking Reggie Bush #1 in the draft. And that's the only thing I'm getting at. ignore the Vince young thing in my signature, that is just there to annoy the guys who want reggie Bush. the guy that no one could pass on..... kinda like Ricky Williams, and we all know how that turned out.

I understand you slipping and sliding Young down the list there to get under my skin, but we both know that won't happen.

I'm also betting Vince is going to floor every team with his interview, and that's gonna blow his score, off the charts.
 
LBC_Justin said:
I am a Longhorn, but after the emotion wears off and the scouts get down and dirty with the film, VY is not going to be graded as high as people think.
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See...THAT is where i disagree with you. It's just an opinion, and we'll all know after the combine; but until then, it's just an opinion and nothing more.

I tend to think that there are soooooo many questions about VY by many people b/c, among other reasons, he seems too good to be true, other running QBs have created a generalized opinion that running QBs can't pass the ball and therefore can't succeed in the NFL, and a lot of the people haven't seen him play on a regular basis.

I think that people will be surprised by VY's throwing drills, workouts, and interviews. I actually think that he will wipe away some of the doubts about his playing ability and actually be graded higher then, than he is now.:twocents:
 
LBC_Justin said:
I am a Longhorn, but after the emotion wears off and the scouts get down and dirty with the film, VY is not going to be graded as high as people think.
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See I also disagree with you there. I think that when it is all said a dn done, after the combine, proday, interviews and individual workouts that VY will be graded higher than Vick was coming out of college.

My reasons are, VY is bigger and taller than Vick at 6'5 230.
Coming out of college Vick had a stronger arm, but VY is alot more accurate than Mike was.
Yes Young has a bad throwing motion, but he is 6'5 so he can get away with it, not many passes will be batted down.
VY has never sat out a game because of injury as far as I can remeber.
And most of all VY has proven that he can be an amazing team leader. I have never seen anyone lead a team like he can. He is never rattled and histeam is confident that he can make the big play when it counts. He has a great attitude and if you are a coach, youknow that he will work hard to live up to his potential.
 
thunderkyss said:
This is the first I've heard of anyone other than us taking Reggie Bush #1 in the draft. And that's the only thing I'm getting at. ignore the Vince young thing in my signature, that is just there to annoy the guys who want reggie Bush. the guy that no one could pass on..... kinda like Ricky Williams, and we all know how that turned out.

I understand you slipping and sliding Young down the list there to get under my skin, but we both know that won't happen.

I'm also betting Vince is going to floor every team with his interview, and that's gonna blow his score, off the charts.
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Ummm do you remember the last game of our season was called the Bush Bowl. No one is talking about anyone else getting Bush because we would be crazy to let him slip past us.

Go to the Jets forums and start a poll who they would rather have VY or Reggie Bush...actually go to ANY TEAMS fourms and you will get the same answer. Many people don't even see Vince Young as the best QB in the draft, some have him as the #3 QB. I know that is crazy to many people outside of Texas. In Southern California the VAST majority of people think Leinart is a NO BRAINER over VY. While I agree they are totally bias, I think that the people in Texas have the same bias towards VY.

If you think Vince Young will do a great job during the interviews wait till you hear Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart interview. These guys are pros and have been in the lime light for a while, they know what pressue is all about and they are proven winners too. Both of them are way way way more articulate than Vince Young and come across as more inteligent. That matters a lot when choosing a QB. Other positions it wouldn't matter as much.

I didn't have him slipping to get under your skin. If Vince Young does not get taken with the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick he IS going to slip down to 7th, unless someone trades up to get him(which probably would happen but I won't even begin to speculate when and where that would happen). The reason he slips that far is all about Money all of those other teams have a lot of $$$$ invested in Young QBs. But this is probably all a mute point because the Titan are going to pick him at #3.
 
AustinJB said:
See...THAT is where i disagree with you. It's just an opinion, and we'll all know after the combine; but until then, it's just an opinion and nothing more.

I tend to think that there are soooooo many questions about VY by many people b/c, among other reasons, he seems too good to be true, other running QBs have created a generalized opinion that running QBs can't pass the ball and therefore can't succeed in the NFL, and a lot of the people haven't seen him play on a regular basis.

I think that people will be surprised by VY's throwing drills, workouts, and interviews. I actually think that he will wipe away some of the doubts about his playing ability and actually be graded higher then, than he is now.:twocents:
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The people that matter will probably have seen EVERY single snap he has ever made from College and high school. What they will see is that he takes every snap from the Shotgun position, which makes it easier to read the defenses and unfortunately is not an option in the pro game. Will VY be successful in the NFL? I have no doubt about it in my mind. But there are to many question marks that make him a real stretch with the #1 pick. Bush is a sure thing. Which is good news for the Texans since that is the pick we have.

Vince Young isn't going to do anything at the Combine. He may interview, get weighed and measured but he won't run and he won't throw. Why? because after his Rose Bowl performance anything he does will only make his stock go down. I don't blame him.

People aren't interested in the next better version of Mike Vick (maybe last year). This years trend is that people want a Big Ben, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer or Peyton Manning.

Hook'em Horns!!!!
 
BuffSoldier said:
See I also disagree with you there. I think that when it is all said a dn done, after the combine, proday, interviews and individual workouts that VY will be graded higher than Vick was coming out of college.

My reasons are, VY is bigger and taller than Vick at 6'5 230.
Coming out of college Vick had a stronger arm, but VY is alot more accurate than Mike was.
Yes Young has a bad throwing motion, but he is 6'5 so he can get away with it, not many passes will be batted down.
VY has never sat out a game because of injury as far as I can remeber.
And most of all VY has proven that he can be an amazing team leader. I have never seen anyone lead a team like he can. He is never rattled and histeam is confident that he can make the big play when it counts. He has a great attitude and if you are a coach, youknow that he will work hard to live up to his potential.
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I agree with everything you said that I have bolded. But....the same thing can almost be said about every player in the top 5 of the draft.
Reggie Bush
Matt Leinart
Vince Young
AJ Hawk
and a few other in the top layer all have these qualities. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE TOP PICKS.
 
LBC_Justin said:
I agree with everything you said that I have bolded. But....the same thing can almost be said about every player in the top 5 of the draft.
Reggie Bush
Matt Leinart
Vince Young
AJ Hawk
and a few other in the top layer all have these qualities. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE TOP PICKS.
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So are you telling me that you have heard of all of these players being the type of leader that VY is? So all these people have changed their coaches pre-game ritual. Got the coach to allow the players to have fun before the game. You have seen clips of these other people dancing on Sports Center before the Rose Bowl. I dont think so. VY inspires his team more than anyone Ive ever seen, he forces them to have fun and be active. HE keeps them loose. VY is the best leader to come out of the draft in the past few years, maybe since John ELway.
 
I do think houston has a lot of holes to fill. you just can pass up reggie bush. Young will be a great qb but you already have a good qb in Carr. With Kubiak at the helm it will just help Carr improve. The Texans will show drastic improvement from last year with Coach Kubiak. Within a couple of years if Houston will be a playoff team.
 
I do think Houston has a lot of holes to fill. You just can't pass up Vince Young. Reggie will be a great RB, but you already have a good RB in Davis, and Wells, and Moency. With Kubiak at the helm(his offnesive line coach), and an Offensive line that is already better at Run Blocking than it is at pass protection, it will just help Davis, Wells, and Morency improve. The Texans will show drastic improvement from last year with Coach Kubiak. Within a couple of years Houston will be a playoff team.



BroncoFan, I took the liberty to fix a few spelling mistakes, and a couple of Gramatical errors............ hope you don't mind.
Other than that, great post.
 
BuffSoldier said:
See I also disagree with you there. I think that when it is all said a dn done, after the combine, proday, interviews and individual workouts that VY will be graded higher than Vick was coming out of college.

My reasons are, VY is bigger and taller than Vick at 6'5 230.
Coming out of college Vick had a stronger arm, but VY is alot more accurate than Mike was.
Yes Young has a bad throwing motion, but he is 6'5 so he can get away with it, not many passes will be batted down.
VY has never sat out a game because of injury as far as I can remeber.
And most of all VY has proven that he can be an amazing team leader. I have never seen anyone lead a team like he can. He is never rattled and histeam is confident that he can make the big play when it counts. He has a great attitude and if you are a coach, youknow that he will work hard to live up to his potential.
Click to expand...

The only real knock on Vince, has been his throwing motion. I think he has shown how he is willing and able to improve his game. He is coachable, and... a lot of NFL QBs have poor throwing motions.. One being Bret Favre.

Another thing, I'm thinking when people look at Vince, they are thinking of Michael Vick. When I see him, I see him more as a Bret Favre, a McNabb, and a good Culpepper. Throwing QBs, who can get out of the pocket if they need to, buy time, and make plays......... Not a throw it, or run style like Vick.
 
LBC_Justin said:
The people that matter will probably have seen EVERY single snap he has ever made from College and high school. What they will see is that he takes every snap from the Shotgun position, which makes it easier to read the defenses and unfortunately is not an option in the pro game. Will VY be successful in the NFL? I have no doubt about it in my mind. But there are to many question marks that make him a real stretch with the #1 pick. Bush is a sure thing. Which is good news for the Texans since that is the pick we have. hmm ok #1 the shotgun is infact run in the NFL. Texas modeled a lot of their plays after indy. its not like Vince ran the wishbone. And thinking this keeps him out fo #1 spot doesnt work when Smith ran an even more gimmicky offense and went #1 just last year.

Vince Young isn't going to do anything at the Combine. He may interview, get weighed and measured but he won't run and he won't throw. Why? because after his Rose Bowl performance anything he does will only make his stock go down. I don't blame him. Vince said in his radio interview he will interview with teams, show them he can make any throws, and will probably run the shuttle.
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Thanks for the spell check. I still think Carr is a good qb, and Reggie Bush will be your pick unless you trade down to stockpile on picks to fill holes. I can see why people in the your area would want Young he has alot of promise. Davis has been injury prone lately and I wouldnt want to have to count on wells or morency. Bush may be the next coming of tomilinson how can you pass that up.
 
BroncoFan said:
Thanks for the spell check. I still think Carr is a good qb, and Reggie Bush will be your pick unless you trade down to stockpile on picks to fill holes. I can see why people in the your area would want Young he has alot of promise. Davis has been injury prone lately and I wouldnt want to have to count on wells or morency. Bush may be the next coming of tomilinson how can you pass that up.
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By drafting the next John Elway.
 
BroncoFan said:
Thanks for the spell check. I still think Carr is a good qb, and Reggie Bush will be your pick unless you trade down to stockpile on picks to fill holes. I can see why people in the your area would want Young he has alot of promise. Davis has been injury prone lately and I wouldnt want to have to count on wells or morency. Bush may be the next coming of tomilinson how can you pass that up.
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Because Tomlinson is a once in a lifetime talent.

It would be less expensive, and the way we're paying people around here, better for us to stick with DD, ditch Carr, and Draft Vince. If I've got a coach like Kubiak coming, if I'm going to be giving anybody another chance, it's going to be the short wide guy in the backfield.

Another reason to Draft Vince, is because that will take more pressure off Kubiak. Any other pick, and he's got to get the Texans into the Playoffs.......... well, at least a winning season. Draft Young, and he'll have time to build and coach the team right. He'll be able to work his way through the bad contracts.
 
thunderkyss said:
Because Tomlinson is a once in a lifetime talent.

It would be less expensive, and the way we're paying people around here, better for us to stick with DD, ditch Carr, and Draft Vince. If I've got a coach like Kubiak coming, if I'm going to be giving anybody another chance, it's going to be the short wide guy in the backfield.

Another reason to Draft Vince, is because that will take more pressure off Kubiak. Any other pick, and he's got to get the Texans into the Playoffs.......... well, at least a winning season. Draft Young, and he'll have time to build and coach the team right. He'll be able to work his way through the bad contracts.
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Unfortunatly, he is not being brought in to develop our team. He is coaching to win, its a new philosophy I know. He will not want to take 3 years for Young to develop and/or contracts to expire before he has this team competing. That would hinder his coaching career, not only here, but for any NFL team who might want his services after his tenure in Houston.
 
N.O. has reason to trade up if they are set on Lienart as their franchise QB. A Texans trade could ruin N.O.s day.

Tenn has a reason to trade up if they are intent on taking VY or Lienart. A trade of #1 or #2 could ruin there day.

Jets have reason to trade up if they are intent on taking Bush.

There is only 1 way to GTD your pick and that is trade up. #2 has traded up in order to GTD their pick. it has happened !
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Unfortunatly, he is not being brought in to develop our team. He is coaching to win, its a new philosophy I know. He will not want to take 3 years for Young to develop and/or contracts to expire before he has this team competing. That would hinder his coaching career, not only here, but for any NFL team who might want his services after his tenure in Houston.
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I love how you contradict yourself in the first and third sentence. He's going to develop the team, yet he doesn't want to take three years for VY to develop. What?:confused:

Exactly how long do you expect Kubes to turn this 2-14 play around? If you think we're going to the playoffs next year, you're crazy! So that would mean that it's going to at least take 2-3 years. I'm not trying to be negative; just being a realist. So what do we have to lose?:confused:

If it takes VY 2-3 years to develop, he'll be hitting his stride right as our team actually has enough talent to compete. Either way (w/ Carr or VY) it will take us just as long. B/c I have seen nothing in Carr so far to prove that he'll develop under Kubes any faster than VY would. I would actually argue the opposite b/c VY has a much better work ethic and seems to be more dedicated than Carr is.

If you don't want VY, I can respect that (don't agree w/ it but can respect it.) But this argument is not a good way to get your point across.
 
BroncoFan said:
thats a good one, young will not be the next elway. Try more of a Mcnabb style.
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I can see him being more of a McNabb STYLE. I do think he's better developed as a passer at this point in his career than McNabb was, and I think he has better running skills.

Vince Young (last college season), 6? 5? 230 lbs
3036 passing yards
65.2 completion percentage
325 attempts for 212 completions, 9.3 av yards per attempt
26 passing TDs with 10 INTs
155 rushes for 1050 yards, 6.8 av yards per attempt, 12 rushing TDs

Donovan McNabb (last college season): 6??2? 240 lbs
2326 passing yards
60.85 completion percentage
281 attempts for 171 completions, 8.3 av yards per attempt
23 passing TDs with 6 INTs
155 rushes for 510 yards, 3.3 av yards per attempt, 8 rushing TDs

Even if the worst he does is become like McNabb, I'd still take him. Would you rather have Carr or a young McNabb?
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Unfortunatly, he is not being brought in to develop our team. He is coaching to win, its a new philosophy I know. He will not want to take 3 years for Young to develop and/or contracts to expire before he has this team competing. That would hinder his coaching career, not only here, but for any NFL team who might want his services after his tenure in Houston.
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AustinJB said:
I love how you contradict yourself in the first and third sentence. He's going to develop the team, yet he doesn't want to take three years for VY to develop. What?:confused:
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Pay attention to what you're reading before you comment on it. You missed a word in the first sentence that invalidated your critisism Austin. Just thought I'd point that out because I have nothing better to do.
 
its pointless Broncofan :)

Look around the NFL and see what other fans are talking about.. you will notice that the VAST VAST VAST majority of fans do not consider Vince Young to be a "sure thing" or even an elite prospect on the same level as Bush or even Lienart.

People here will claim that the fact that Vince is from Houston and played for UT has nothing to do with it.. but interestingly enough.. no one outside of Houston or UT agrees :P.

but whatever.. our FO will make the right choice.. if that happens to be Vince Young, ill still be here supporting the Texans, and Young... but the same goes for if we draft Bush or trade down... I hope that this is a sentiment that the majority of the posters here will agree with.
 
Grid said:
its pointless Broncofan :)

Look around the NFL and see what other fans are talking about.. you will notice that the VAST VAST VAST majority of fans do not consider Vince Young to be a "sure thing" or even an elite prospect on the same level as Bush or even Lienart.

People here will claim that the fact that Vince is from Houston and played for UT has nothing to do with it.. but interestingly enough.. no one outside of Houston or UT agrees :P.

but whatever.. our FO will make the right choice.. if that happens to be Vince Young, ill still be here supporting the Texans, and Young... but the same goes for if we draft Bush or trade down... I hope that this is a sentiment that the majority of the posters here will agree with.
Click to expand...

I do. Good post Grid. I suspect it will blow by some segments though.
 
Grid said:
its pointless Broncofan :)

Look around the NFL and see what other fans are talking about.. you will notice that the VAST VAST VAST majority of fans do not consider Vince Young to be a "sure thing" or even an elite prospect on the same level as Bush or even Lienart.

People here will claim that the fact that Vince is from Houston and played for UT has nothing to do with it.. but interestingly enough.. no one outside of Houston or UT agrees :P.

but whatever.. our FO will make the right choice.. if that happens to be Vince Young, ill still be here supporting the Texans, and Young... but the same goes for if we draft Bush or trade down... I hope that this is a sentiment that the majority of the posters here will agree with.
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you're so full of it man. http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/vinceyoung.html

you see what that says on the left? "ELITE PROSPECT"
 
stevo3883 said:
you're so full of it man. http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/vinceyoung.html

you see what that says on the left? "ELITE PROSPECT"
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So? It says the same thing under Dbrick and Mario Williams.. and no one is talking about taking them #1 overall. If you are going to quote nfldraftcountdown as scripture.. then you should also notice that Matt Lienart is rated above him.


I wasnt talking about what the little text underneath Vince's rating on a scouting site said.. I was talking about what people are saying around the league.. and what they are saying is that Vince Young isnt near as good as the people on this board are trying to make him out to be. A great prospect? sure.. but he is a project.. he has great upside, but he isnt ANY team's savior at this juncture. He needs work.
 
Grid said:
So? It says the same thing under Dbrick and Mario Williams.. and no one is talking about taking them #1 overall. If you are going to quote nfldraftcountdown as scripture.. then you should also notice that Matt Lienart is rated above him.


I wasnt talking about what the little text underneat Vince's rating on a scouting site said.. I was talking about what people are saying around the league.. and what they are saying is that Vince Young isnt near as good as the people on this board are trying to make him out to be. A great prospect? sure.. but he is a project.. he has great upside, but he isnt ANY team's savior at this juncture. He needs work.
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I think the notes on the bottom of the scouting site are a fair comment:

Has as much potential as any player the draft has ever seen...Any team selecting him will be making a huge gamble on greatness with a very high risk / reward factor...Protégé of Steve McNair, who has been like a father figure to him since his sophomore year in high school...More advanced than Michael Vick was coming out of college and could be a transcendent star who revolutionizes the position.
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A fair summary, I think.

As much potential as any player the draft has ever seen???? Transcendent star who revolutionizes the position???? Oh. My.

That is some GI-NORMOUS hype there. And what many of the people who want to pick VY are latching on to.

Some people believe Carr still has potential when surrounded by better players and better system and coaching. And some don't. But one way or another, what if you as a franchise were able to pick a QB that might be the BQE--The Best Quarterback EVAAAAAARRRRR???!!!! ;)

The prospect of this should give any rational person pause. You can pick that player. Or you can pass on him. But you have the choice.

I guess it is all a matter of your comfort with risk. VY is just not someone that I would bet against.

But it ain't my decision, it ain't my millions and it ain't my franchise.

But it is my team, so I can still hope until April rolls around. :texflag:
 
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