Seriously. Travis Johnson?

While wondering where we will adress O-line in the draft this year I couldn't help but wonder if anyone knew how Jamaal Brown and Alex Barron faired in their rookie season. Even a late first round talent right tackle might have been alright in hindsight I think we can all agree. It just seems like we are waiting each year for a Munoz or Bosselli to come out in the draft for O-line while taking mediocre talents ala Babin-Johnson (IMO). Of course the jury is still out for TJ, but now 2 years? after ESPN running that funny pre draft commercial clip of Carr with zero O-line we are still left wondering when we will adress the problem because we decided to take a rotation filling defensive tackle last year.

Hindsight is 20-20. If I look back at the drafts.. I can construct us a good Oline by exchanging our picks that didnt work out for Olinemen that did.

Doesnt really help or prove anything.

TJ has had one year as a backup in a defense that wasnt working. The coaching staff just got fired. It is DEFINATLY too early to come to any conclusions about him.

TJ and the other tackles on our DL will benefit greatly from a switch to a 4-3 or a Pittsburgh style 3-4. TJ is a classic one-gap penetrator and he will thrive in either of those systems if that's what's in store for the Texans defense.

aj. said:

TJ is a classic one-gap penetrator and he will thrive in either of those systems if that's what's in store for the Texans defense.

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TJ is one defensive draftee we've had who's value is maximized in the 4-3,
unlike some others (especially tweener DEs like Babin, Peek, etc) who will
have more difficulty finding their niche in the 4-3.

nunusguy said:

TJ is one defensive draftee we've had who's value is maximized in the 4-3,
unlike some others (especially tweener DEs like Babin, Peek, etc) who will
have more difficulty finding their niche in the 4-3.

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TJ isn't a bad player, I just don't know if he's a mid-first round caliber player. I sure as hell do not think he and that 3rd rounder we got made it worth passing on Derrick Johnson.

That aside, Babin and Peek both fit as pass-rushing DEs in a 4-3, possibly better than OLB's that they were in a 3-4. Mind you, Fangio's playcalling had a lot to do with the failure of our 3-4, moreso than personnel I believe. At that, I am not sure how well TJ will fit into the 4-3. I would like to stick with a 3-4, just run the thing right, myself.

Grid said:

Hindsight is 20-20. If I look back at the drafts.. I can construct us a good Oline by exchanging our picks that didnt work out for Olinemen that did.

Doesnt really help or prove anything.

TJ has had one year as a backup in a defense that wasnt working. The coaching staff just got fired. It is DEFINATLY too early to come to any conclusions about him.

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It's not so much hindsight when several members around here had stated that a couple of the tackles taken last year in the 1st round were good. The hindsight thing is overrated because nobody had TJ going to us in the 1st round, he wasn't even the best DT.

I guess the real question would be is if we drafted an o-lineman in the first round last year, would he have made a bigger impact than TJ?

bigTEXan8 said:

I guess the real question would be is if we drafted an o-lineman in the first round last year, would he have made a bigger impact than TJ?

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TJ made an impact?

maybe in the buffet line, certainly not on the playing field.

all the guy did was dress up for the media and tell jokes. but the real joke is a guy who can't see the field on a 2-14 team.

stevo3883 said:

TJ made an impact?

maybe in the buffet line, certainly not on the playing field.

all the guy did was dress up for the media and tell jokes. but the real joke is a guy who can't see the field on a 2-14 team.

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I understand what you are saying, but lets say we draft Barron. Would Barron have played this year, and could he have made an impact.

bigTEXan8 said:

I understand what you are saying, but lets say we draft Barron. Would Barron have played this year, and could he have made an impact.

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played? obviously yes, Wade was out a good amount of the year.

made an impact? well, offensive linemen can't really impact a game, and you don't notice them unless they screw up.

so would he have been an upgrade? yes i think so.

bigTEXan8 said:

I understand what you are saying, but lets say we draft Barron. Would Barron have played this year, and could he have made an impact.

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Probably a negative impact. I watched a couple of his games this season, and saw him get beat and get penalized a lot. I saw one game where he was penalized 5 or 6 times in one game, and during that game he was penalized three plays in a row.

from everything i hear dt take 2 or 3 years to make an impact in the nfl. so maybe we should wait to judge.

markbeth said:

from everything i hear dt take 2 or 3 years to make an impact in the nfl. so maybe we should wait to judge.

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That definately seems to be the case. Everyone is eager to find out what sort of talent they've got, and patience is hard to come by in a fanbase of a 2-14 team. You can look around the league, and very rarely does a DT make an immediate impact. Often they know only one move since that's all they really needed to get by OLines in college. So they need to be taught to master another move to keep professional OLinemen guessing. Look at the Chicago Bears for instance. They picked up two DTs (Tommie Harris & Tank Johnson) a couple of years ago who are now paying dividends as two key members of the DLine for one of the best defenses in the NFL. Harris saw some success as a rookie DT, but Johnson didn't have a very successful rookie season at all. However, this year Johnson has had the better season of the two DTs. I'm sure there were some impatient Bears fans who wanted to call Johnson a bust too.

My point being that while it's important to show patience when trying to accurately evaluate a past draft, it is especially important at positions like DT, QB, and the OL. I tend to think much like aj, in that, I feel TJ will benefit greatly from a change in defensive philosophy. A new DC that brings in the 4-3, or failing that, allows the DLine to get more penetration & pressure on the QB will help to highlight TJ's particular skills. Wait a couple of years before calling him a bust.

texan279 said:

Probably a negative impact. I watched a couple of his games this season, and saw him get beat and get penalized a lot. I saw one game where he was penalized 5 or 6 times in one game, and during that game he was penalized three plays in a row.

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Nevermind then.

markbeth said:

from everything i hear dt take 2 or 3 years to make an impact in the nfl. so maybe we should wait to judge.

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yep, good point. This was stated when we drafted TJ, that it'll be a couple of seasons before he really makes an impact.

Imagine a rookie defensive linemen dominating veteran offensive linemen. Just that statment sounds crazy. It takes years to develop techniques to deal with those big boys up front. It's probably happened, but that's the exception and not the rule.

Have a little patience. TJ has a great upside, and time will tell if he was worth the first round pick.

I think TJ will be very effective in a 4-3 system. I like our depth at DT with Smith, Walker, Payne and TJ. I realy think the front seven is a MLB and LDE away from coming together.

How about Peppers? It took him awhile, but he sure is making an impact now. Not that Travis Johnson is anywhere near the player that Peppers is.

jerek said:

TJ isn't a bad player, I just don't know if he's a mid-first round caliber player. I sure as hell do not think he and that 3rd rounder we got made it worth passing on Derrick Johnson.

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AJ could be right on about TJ being a one-gap penetrator in a 4-3 at least thats what I thought the book on him was when the Texans drafted him, which means more than anything that the coaching and scouting once again failed at their jobs. But two saving graces (we got lucky on this one) Travis will be that starting 4-3 DT & N.O. almost out sucked the Texans and that 3rd rd pick in exchange for trading down a couple picks is now worth the #2 overall pick of the 3rd rd. (#66)

stevo3883 said:

made an impact? well, offensive linemen can't really impact a game, and you don't notice them unless they screw up.

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I am going to have to get a judges ruling on this take. Were you being sarcastic about OLine not having an impact on a game?

jerek said:

TJ isn't a bad player, I just don't know if he's a mid-first round caliber player. I sure as hell do not think he and that 3rd rounder we got made it worth passing on Derrick Johnson.

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Since we haven't seen much of TJ this season, check out this scouting report on him. I never knew all of this about him as I do not watch college ball, but after reading this seems like trading down and drafting him wasn't too bad, even though we haven't seen much of him yet in the NFL ranks. And the passing on DJ thing doesn't upset me at all, he did nothing all that special this season, I mean he put up solid numbers with 95 total tackles and 2 sacks, but Odell Thurman had a better season. LINK

Travis Johnson was regarded by many as the best defensive line prospect in the country after his senior year at Notre Dame (Sherman Oaks, Calif.) High. He was a unanimous All-America choice as he recorded 104 tackles with 17 sacks, 32 stops for losses, eight blocked kicks on defense and also rushed for six touchdowns as a short-yardage fullback in 1999. Johnson finished his prep career as the school's record holder for sacks (40), tackles for loss (77), forced fumbles (14) and blocked punts (five). According to Johnson's coaches, the outgoing player is finally living up to his press clippings. He shows very active hands and excellent explosion coming off the snap. He is a quick-twitch type than gets into the offensive lineman quickly, generating good upper-body power behind his hand punch to gain separation.

stevo3883 said:

played? obviously yes, Wade was out a good amount of the year.

made an impact? well, offensive linemen can't really impact a game, and you don't notice them unless they screw up.

so would he have been an upgrade? yes i think so.

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Wow. Just ..... wow. Now I understand why everyone on this board is in the Bush or VY camp.

I guess the real question would be is if we drafted an o-lineman in the first round last year, would he have made a bigger impact than TJ?

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That's not my question at all. My question is how as the NFL team with the worst O-line in the league do we have the luxury to pass on late first round O-line talent in place of late first round interior D-line talent who doesn't yet appear to be a difference maker. If Barron or Brown struggled this year, then fine.. but at least we are infusing some talent into the line for down the road instead of again sitting here this year having done nothing for another year. All I heard were the comments on how our staff didn't view Barron and Brown as elite tackles, I just don't see TJ as an elite D-linemen either and I know which is a bigger need. If we really didn't like the top first rounders that much then we needed to move out of the first all together and take a few second and third round shots at guards, tackles etc.. We simply need to start throwing some O-line darts at the draft board. This crap about waiting for the Tony Bosseli prospect to come along is rediculous. We can't even properly evaluate our franchise QB becuase we think adding Victor Riley and switching his positions after 10 years and 100 pounds is a legit add! We also think overpaying Steve Mckinney to do radio shows, act as a human pinball, then collect 610 player of the games is solid management. Now we are deciding whether we will pass on two of the greatest talents in recent college football history to address this elephant that's been in the living room for 4 years. Casserly needs to get his famous % draft board shot and decide if he'd rather have taken a 3rd round O-linemen with what a 20% chance? of contributing...... or Dave Ragone. When Casserly took a backup QB in round 3 for my expansion franchise I knew right then he needed to be canned. Alright, I'm giving up this tangent to start drinking.

texan279 said:

Since we haven't seen much of TJ this season, check out this scouting report on him. I never knew all of this about him as I do not watch college ball, but after reading this seems like trading down and drafting him wasn't too bad, even though we haven't seen much of him yet in the NFL ranks. And the passing on DJ thing doesn't upset me at all, he did nothing all that special this season, I mean he put up solid numbers with 95 total tackles and 2 sacks, but Odell Thurman had a better season. LINK

Travis Johnson was regarded by many as the best defensive line prospect in the country after his senior year at Notre Dame (Sherman Oaks, Calif.) High. He was a unanimous All-America choice as he recorded 104 tackles with 17 sacks, 32 stops for losses, eight blocked kicks on defense and also rushed for six touchdowns as a short-yardage fullback in 1999. Johnson finished his prep career as the school's record holder for sacks (40), tackles for loss (77), forced fumbles (14) and blocked punts (five). According to Johnson's coaches, the outgoing player is finally living up to his press clippings. He shows very active hands and excellent explosion coming off the snap. He is a quick-twitch type than gets into the offensive lineman quickly, generating good upper-body power behind his hand punch to gain separation.

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Texan279

I am going to let this honest mistake slide without talking crap about it. And understand, we all make mistakes like this, misread or misquote at times, so it's nothing personal ... just made me smile when I read your post.

This season you note here was his high school senior season. TJ played his college ball at Florida State, where he put up very mortal numbers. He was, if I remember, projected as a late first rounder. Once again, he must have put up an impressive workout for us, because we took him much earlier than he was projected to go (ala Babin.)

And I would still take Derrick. 95 tack/2 sacks isn't all-world, but it's a pretty damned good rookie season.

jerek said:

Texan279

I am going to let this honest mistake slide without talking crap about it. And understand, we all make mistakes like this, misread or misquote at times, so it's nothing personal ... just made me smile when I read your post.

This season you note here was his high school senior season. TJ played his college ball at Florida State, where he put up very mortal numbers. He was, if I remember, projected as a late first rounder. Once again, he must have put up an impressive workout for us, because we took him much earlier than he was projected to go (ala Babin.)

And I would still take Derrick. 95 tack/2 sacks isn't all-world, but it's a pretty damned good rookie season.

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No you're right, I copied the wrong part of the article, this is what I meant to post...For his career, Johnson registered 175 tackles (76 solo) with 10 sacks for minus-63 yards, 43½ stops for losses of 127 yards, 31 quarterback pressures, four fumble recoveries, six forced fumbles and three pass deflections while starting 21 of 51 games. Only Ron Simmons (44, 1977-80) and Darnell Dockett (65, 2000-03) had more stops for loss in a career at Florida State that Johnson's 43½.

stevo3883 said:

made an impact? well, offensive linemen can't really impact a game, and you don't notice them unless they screw up.

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You definitely have a limited scope of the game if this wasn't sarcasm.

Offensive line doesn't make an impact? Tell that to Steve Hutchinson, Walter Jones and Shaun Alexander.

Next thing he will say that FB's don't impact a game. Tell that to Shaun Alexander who pays to take Mack Strong every year...except this one. Strong finally made it himself. He is my favorite FB in the league.

stevo3883 said:

played? obviously yes, Wade was out a good amount of the year.

made an impact? well, offensive linemen can't really impact a game, and you don't notice them unless they screw up.

so would he have been an upgrade? yes i think so.

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Charlie? Is that you? Who said Casserly never posts on this board.