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Matt Leinart is better than Vince Young

gtexan02

Working?
Plain and simple, I'd rather have Leinart than Young here.

What does VY have going for him?
Heart of a champion
Accurate Passer
Very mobile

What does Leinart have?
Same champions heart
More accurate passer
Not mobile, but doesn't need to be because of superior pocket presence
Calls his own plays

VY had a good junior year, true, but Leinart had 3 incredible seasons. I'd take consistency over 1 good game any day.

Matts stats:
2003 255/402 (63.4%) for 3556 38 TDs and 9 INTs
2004 269/412 (65.3%) for 3322 33 TDs and 6 INTs
2005 283/431 (65.7%) for 3815 28 TDs and 8 INTs

VY stats:
2003 84/143 (58.7%) for 1155 6 TDs and 7 INTs
2004 148/250 (59.2%) for 1849 12 TDs and 11 INTs
2005 212/325 (65.2%) for 3036 26 TDs and 10 INTs

If all you Longhorn fans really think we need a QB, why isn't Leinart even being considered? Because he's not from Texas? Thats ridiculous. He has shown for his ENTIRE career that he is a winner who gets it done. His worst season was still better than VYs best season as a passer. Sure he doesn't move around as much, but NFL quarterbacks aren't supposed to move around. Thats how you get hurt, just look at Vick. The fact of the matter is, Leinart is a MUCH BETTER NFL prospect than VY. He throws the ball perfectly. He is smart. He is calm. He reads defenses better, and he even calls his own plays. VY is a gamble, and may turn out great, but also may turn out badly
 

MorKnolle

All Pro
You could argue that Vince has the potential to be a better QB, but I agree Leinart is by far more NFL-ready at this moment and if I was going to use the pick for a guy that is supposed to come improve my team, I'd probably draft Leinart over Vince, but again that would largely depend on my coaching staff and their offensive system.
 

Holden135

Waterboy
I honestly think Matt will be a better pro qb than Vince as well. He is a better passing qb. Everyone wants to talk about the 200yds Vince ran for against USC. Newsflash guys, USC's defense is not that good. I think they were around 48th in the nation(could be off). The speed in the nfl will factor out VY's running greatly. He may have a few good runs here and there but qb's need to excel in the pocket which is something Leinart has proven he can do. Im not saying Vince can't do it but he hasn't shown that he can at the level of Matt.
 

swtbound07

Jackass of Day!
Holden135 said:
I honestly think Matt will be a better pro qb than Vince as well. He is a better passing qb. Everyone wants to talk about the 200yds Vince ran for against USC. Newsflash guys, USC's defense is not that good. I think they were around 48th in the nation(could be off). The speed in the nfl will factor out VY's running greatly. He may have a few good runs here and there but qb's need to excel in the pocket which is something Leinart has proven he can do. Im not saying Vince can't do it but he hasn't shown that he can at the level of Matt.

its not really about the "runs"..its about the ability to escape when an (inferior) pocket breaks down...matt leinart isnt mobile, and our o-line isnt good enough to give a pure pocket passer time to suceed....Matt Leinart would get murdered, much like david carr has been over the past 4 seasons....Vince Young can make plays on the run, and avoid sacks. That is why Matt isnt mentioned in the controversy....we dont have the personnel in place to support a pure pocket passer.
 
Holden135 said:
I honestly think Matt will be a better pro qb than Vince as well. He is a better passing qb. Everyone wants to talk about the 200yds Vince ran for against USC. Newsflash guys, USC's defense is not that good. I think they were around 48th in the nation(could be off). The speed in the nfl will factor out VY's running greatly. He may have a few good runs here and there but qb's need to excel in the pocket which is something Leinart has proven he can do. Im not saying Vince can't do it but he hasn't shown that he can at the level of Matt.
You must of went to Casserly's School of Logic. Scary.
:dontknowa
 

TheOgre

All Pro
Dennis007 said:
You must of went to Casserly's School of Logic. Scary.
:dontknowa
Instead of making a mocking statement and insulting the poster, can you be specific about what is flawed in the logic?
 

Texans_Chick

Utopian Dreamer
swtbound07 said:
its not really about the "runs"..its about the ability to escape when an (inferior) pocket breaks down...matt leinart isnt mobile, and our o-line isnt good enough to give a pure pocket passer time to suceed....Matt Leinart would get murdered, much like david carr has been over the past 4 seasons....Vince Young can make plays on the run, and avoid sacks. That is why Matt isnt mentioned in the controversy....we dont have the personnel in place to support a pure pocket passer.

This is the point made by a column from TN saying why VY not Leinert is perfect for the Titanhicks:

Jim Wyatt-The Tennessean

This is not a column you should want to read after eating because the thought of it is bad bad bad.
 

txlonghorn14

Practice Squad
if leinart had the same amount of heart or more than Vince does, than Leinart and USC would be 3 Peat National Champs. Oh, thats right......Vince and Texas shocked the nation
 

TEXANFAN23435

Waterboy
Behind this current OL, VY would find out very fast that in the NFL you have DL who weigh 300+ and can chase you down inside of 5 yards and make that even sooner for the 250+ pound LB's. There's just no way of knowing how VY would handle the pressure of a failing pocket especially when he realizes his feet won't always bail him out. Yeah, he got away with it at the college level but its different with no OL. Getting DE-CLEATED from the blindside will certainly lower your moxey levels. I noticed VY didn't really face that kind of pressure this year and he had time to check off multiple routes before throwing the ball which resulted in a very good season. Why didn't he accomplish this years results in his previous 2 years as a starter? At the NFL level, Vick ( who's faster than VY ) was exposed when defenses contained him. Where did Vick's escapability and team leading rusher stats get the Falcons this year?? If Vick doesn't learn how to read defenses, DC's are only going to get better at making him one dimensional and Falcon fans will eventually sour on him. I do not want to single out VY, but because of our current OL situation, I honestly feel there is not 1 current NFL QB with experience much less a rookie who could have come in here this year and led our team to the playoffs coming off of last seasons 7-9 campaign.
 
What is the diffence between David Carr & Matt Leinart? Carr is probably tougher, and Leinart had top 10 NFL picks around him his enire career. Leinart also had NFL coaching. You could put a lot of skilled QB's in that system & they would succeed.
 

gtexan02

Working?
txlonghorn14 said:
if leinart had the same amount of heart or more than Vince does, than Leinart and USC would be 3 Peat National Champs. Oh, thats right......Vince and Texas shocked the nation
Sometimes you UT fanboys scare me with your blind loyalty. Heart does help you win games, but only when you are actually in a position to do that. USC's defense let them down in that game, not Matt Leinart. Also, do you know how many times USC came from behind after trailing at the half? Many, many times. You would know that if you watched any game other than the rose bowl. The fact is, 1 game proves nothing. You hvae to look at history, and it shows that both QBs have an incredible will to win. Remember that game against Fresno? Thats heart


PS: Heres a nice quote that I really like from an article on foxsports.com

"The first pick is not for taking gambles. Vince Young, at this stage of his development, is a gamble. The upside is there, and it is tremendous, but so is the risk that the Texans would be right back here five years from now — watching the David Carr-led Raiders challenge the Reggie Bush-led Saints in Super Bowl XLV while trying to decide whom they should take with the top pick to replace Vince Young."
 
The fact that you thought enough about that article to quote it isn't helping your image. The Raiders & Saints in the Super Bowl five years from now? Wake up & smell the crack rocks.
 

Huge

All Pro
DeAngelo's stats:
103 carries, 684 yards, 5 TDs
243 carries, 1,430 yards, 10 TDs
313 carries, 1,948 yards, 22 TDs
309 carries, 1,959 yards, 18 TDs

Reggie's stats:
90 carries, 521 yards, 3 TDs
143 carries, 908 yards, 6 TDs
200 carries, 1,740 yards, 16 TDs

In other words, a team would be stupid to take Reggie Bush over DeAngelo Williams.


Right?

And I'm sure Carson Palmer would love to hear your theory about how QBs aren't supposed to move around because they get hurt that way.
 

JDizzle

I'm a dude
Long-Spurs-Texan said:
The fact that you thought enough about that article to quote it isn't helping your image. The Raiders & Saints in the Super Bowl five years from now? Wake up & smell the crack rocks.
The Saints and Raiders in the SB in 5 years? Doesn't seem too farfetched to me, they have far more talent than we do on both sides of the ball with one, common missing peice. Insulting people isn't helping your image.
 

Holden135

Waterboy
Huge said:
DeAngelo's stats:
103 carries, 684 yards, 5 TDs
243 carries, 1,430 yards, 10 TDs
313 carries, 1,948 yards, 22 TDs
309 carries, 1,959 yards, 18 TDs

Reggie's stats:
90 carries, 521 yards, 3 TDs
143 carries, 908 yards, 6 TDs
200 carries, 1,740 yards, 16 TDs

In other words, a team would be stupid to take Reggie Bush over DeAngelo Williams.


Right?

And I'm sure Carson Palmer would love to hear your theory about how QBs aren't supposed to move around because they get hurt that way.
How about you show receptions and return yards in there too. Reggie is not a RB. He is an offensive weapon with no real label.
 

Huge

All Pro
Holden135 said:
How about you show receptions and return yards in there too. Reggie is not a RB. He is an offensive weapon with no real label.
So then shouldn't we also show Vince's rushing stats when we're comparing the two QB's?

It'd only seem fair...right?
 

uofmgriz

Practice Squad
I do agree with what you say regarding Matt, however, why even bother with a quarterback? The offensive line couldn't protect a crash test dummy. If they draft Young, Leinart, or Bush, all they are going to do is promptly destroy any hopes of this young talent from taking off in this league. I say trade the first round pick, for extra picks, and get an offensive line!!
 
gtexan02 said:
Plain and simple, I'd rather have Leinart than Young here.

What does VY have going for him?
Heart of a champion
Accurate Passer
Very mobile

What does Leinart have?
Same champions heart
More accurate passer
Not mobile, but doesn't need to be because of superior pocket presence
Calls his own plays

VY had a good junior year, true, but Leinart had 3 incredible seasons. I'd take consistency over 1 good game any day.

Matts stats:
2003 255/402 (63.4%) for 3556 38 TDs and 9 INTs
2004 269/412 (65.3%) for 3322 33 TDs and 6 INTs
2005 283/431 (65.7%) for 3815 28 TDs and 8 INTs

VY stats:
2003 84/143 (58.7%) for 1155 6 TDs and 7 INTs
2004 148/250 (59.2%) for 1849 12 TDs and 11 INTs
2005 212/325 (65.2%) for 3036 26 TDs and 10 INTs

If all you Longhorn fans really think we need a QB, why isn't Leinart even being considered? Because he's not from Texas? Thats ridiculous. He has shown for his ENTIRE career that he is a winner who gets it done. His worst season was still better than VYs best season as a passer. Sure he doesn't move around as much, but NFL quarterbacks aren't supposed to move around. Thats how you get hurt, just look at Vick. The fact of the matter is, Leinart is a MUCH BETTER NFL prospect than VY. He throws the ball perfectly. He is smart. He is calm. He reads defenses better, and he even calls his own plays. VY is a gamble, and may turn out great, but also may turn out badly


Im not going to agree with you but i think either one of this two great college QB's would be and upgrade for us.
 

rmartin65

Phil Kessel: Nice Guy. Tries Hard.
An offensive line is what I as a fan would like. But if it had to go between Young and Leinart, I'd pick Leinart. And a loathe USC. The reason I'd pick Leinart is that he is a proven QB. He could avoid sacks because he has a quick release and great pocket presence. An offensive lineman is what I want, but Leinart would be a better pick than Young.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
TEXANFAN23435 said:
Behind this current OL, VY would find out very fast that in the NFL you have DL who weigh 300+ and can chase you down inside of 5 yards and make that even sooner for the 250+ pound LB's. There's just no way of knowing how VY would handle the pressure of a failing pocket especially when he realizes his feet won't always bail him out. Yeah, he got away with it at the college level but its different with no OL. Getting DE-CLEATED from the blindside will certainly lower your moxey levels. I noticed VY didn't really face that kind of pressure this year and he had time to check off multiple routes before throwing the ball which resulted in a very good season. Why didn't he accomplish this years results in his previous 2 years as a starter? At the NFL level, Vick ( who's faster than VY ) was exposed when defenses contained him. Where did Vick's escapability and team leading rusher stats get the Falcons this year?? If Vick doesn't learn how to read defenses, DC's are only going to get better at making him one dimensional and Falcon fans will eventually sour on him. I do not want to single out VY, but because of our current OL situation, I honestly feel there is not 1 current NFL QB with experience much less a rookie who could have come in here this year and led our team to the playoffs coming off of last seasons 7-9 campaign.

Dante and Donovan have been very comfortable playing in the NFL. Neither faced the competition Vince has in college.

Vicks problem is that he can't throw the ball like McNabb, Like Donovan, Like Vince. HE has had that one game, where he showed he can throw it too. Vince has had two seasons.
 

gtexan02

Working?
What two seasons are you referring to exactly? Vince only had 1 good year as a passer. His sophomore season he had nearly as many picks as TDs and only threw for around 2000 yards. Sounds like David Carr #s
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
These posts crack me up because their main goal is not to find a better guy to draft but to discredit someone who is a good kid and awesome player. VY has improved every year. His throwing has been excellent and he had one of the highest QB ratings this year, part of it completion percentage. Jack Pardee was on the radio yesterday and said with his coaching knowlege the guy would fit perfectly in a system like the Colts run. I'm so tired of the Vick comparisons. There is a big difference besides Vick not being able to throw...Vick never won jack in college and hasn't led a team to anything. Vince is a winner, plain and simple. And I am a Bush draft supporter. Stop putting down a guy because you don't like the hype.
 

Huge

All Pro
gtexan02 said:
What two seasons are you referring to exactly? Vince only had 1 good year as a passer. His sophomore season he had nearly as many picks as TDs and only threw for around 2000 yards. Sounds like David Carr #s
Reggie Bush - 908 rushing yards, 6 rushing TDs last season.

I know, I know...you're just dying to point out how he only had 143 carries and if he had more carries then his overall numbers would look a lot better. But you know you can't do that because I'll simply point out the limited number of attempts that Young had which would have an effect on his passing yards.

Frustrating, ain't it?

I don't think there's any question that Leinart is a better passer than Young. But does that make him the better QB? Not in my mind.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
HoustonFrog said:
These posts crack me up because their main goal is not to find a better guy to draft but to discredit someone who is a good kid and awesome player. VY has improved every year. His throwing has been excellent and he had one of the highest QB ratings this year, part of it completion percentage. Jack Pardee was on the radio yesterday and said with his coaching knowlege the guy would fit perfectly in a system like the Colts run. I'm so tired of the Vick comparisons. There is a big difference besides Vick not being able to throw...Vick never won jack in college and hasn't led a team to anything. Vince is a winner, plain and simple. And I am a Bush draft supporter. Stop putting down a guy because you don't like the hype.
I predict BIG things for the HOUSTONFROG how do ya like that hype :heh:

Since this has been the only thing on everyones mind it might be possible that Vince Young while everything we need as a leader and playmaker at the QB position that we may just be at a point where we need so much that addressing several needs > taking #1 overall. we've got three months to hash this out but a trade down scenero where the Texans cash in on a bundle of picks for trading down just a few spots maybe the correct pathway, I just would like some assurance that Casserly will select better than in the past.
 

liltony9144

Practice Squad
At least Vince is actually getting better, as the stats state.

I think he's better under pressure overall, and plus, our line still may suck next year. Whats going to happen to Leinart when he isn't mobile enough to avoid certain sacks. Leinart's good, don't get me wrong, just a mobile QB is more of what we need. He would be better on a team with a fantastic line, as he can just sit there and then throw.
 

Texans>Colts

Waterboy
Matt Leinart had 2 1,000 yd rushers that combinded for over 3,000yds (Bush= 1740yds White =1302yds), had 2 900 yd recivers (Steve Smith=958, Dwayne Jarrett=1,274), and one of the best o-lines in college. Now this is USC's Offense.

Young has a 900 yd rusher(charels=906), a 750 yd receiver, (Pittman), but has a good o-line to. Now this is Texas's Offense.

Maybe if Vince Young had Leinart's Team he would be better
 

kastofsna

Hall of Fame
liltony9144 said:
At least Vince is actually getting better, as the stats state.

I think he's better under pressure overall, and plus, our line still may suck next year. Whats going to happen to Leinart when he isn't mobile enough to avoid certain sacks. Leinart's good, don't get me wrong, just a mobile QB is more of what we need. He would be better on a team with a fantastic line, as he can just sit there and then throw.
he's as mobile as you need. people seem to have this thought that leinart is a statue. it's completely false. they run more bootlegs and rollouts than anyone in the country. he throws on the run a lot. he avoids the pressure very well. he steps up in the pocket when the collapses around him. he's not drew bledsoe. he'll avoid the pressure well
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
swtbound07 said:
its not really about the "runs"..its about the ability to escape when an (inferior) pocket breaks down...matt leinart isnt mobile, and our o-line isnt good enough to give a pure pocket passer time to suceed....Matt Leinart would get murdered, much like david carr has been over the past 4 seasons....Vince Young can make plays on the run, and avoid sacks. That is why Matt isnt mentioned in the controversy....we dont have the personnel in place to support a pure pocket passer.

This has really got to be one of the worse reasons to draft Vince. If your Oline is weak..... fix the Oline. Don't go building your team around broken pieces.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
gtexan02 said:
VY had a good junior year, true, but Leinart had 3 incredible seasons. I'd take consistency over 1 good game any day./QUOTE]

I agree Leinart is awesome and if you think he is a better QB then more power to you, just stop losing all the respect you garnered in your post with a quote like this. VY was 29-2 and did the same thing in the Rose Bowl the year before, against OK St twice and against many other teams. It amazes me how much people DONY watch college football and say things like it was 1 game. No, I'm not a tsip and no, I don't want to draft him, just get your facts straight.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Texans>Colts said:
Matt Leinart had 2 1,000 yd rushers that combinded for over 3,000yds (Bush= 1740yds White =1302yds), had 2 900 yd recivers (Steve Smith=958, Dwayne Jarrett=1,274), and one of the best o-lines in college. Now this is USC's Offense.

Young has a 900 yd rusher(charels=906), a 750 yd receiver, (Pittman), but has a good o-line to. Now this is Texas's Offense.

Maybe if Vince Young had Leinart's Team he would be better

Then, then..... Matt played for 4 quarters every week...... Vince didn't.......

who knows what kinda numbers he'd have.

Besides, who is looking for quick fixes?? who needs NFL ready.... .I want the best prospect, over the long term. I'm looking for a Franchise QB. I'm not fortunate enough to actually know these guys. Wish I did. I need to sit down with the two, before I actually pick one.

But that's not really the point. I've become a Fan of Vince Young. doesn't matter if it started at the RoseBowl 2006, or the RoseBowl 2005. I think Vince has what it takes to be a franchise QB. I'm not saying Matt doesn't. I'm not saying Reggie doesn't.
 

swtbound07

Jackass of Day!
thunderkyss said:
This has really got to be one of the worse reasons to draft Vince. If your Oline is weak..... fix the Oline. Don't go building your team around broken pieces.
i agree in theory, but the reality is the o-line has been atrocious since franchise inception, and you cant work under the assumption that this will finally be the year it gets fixed. People keep saying david carr might thrive under a good system and good o-line.....what happens if we NEVER FIX the o-line? I mean, its not a new problem, and it gets continually ignored....why are we taking it for granted that carr will ever get a fair shake here?
 

LBC_Justin

Rookie
thunderkyss said:
This has really got to be one of the worse reasons to draft Vince. If your Oline is weak..... fix the Oline. Don't go building your team around broken pieces.
GOOD POST.
 

Dr. Toro

Rookie
I am not opposed to a Leinart-Young debate.

To officially state my position, I think the Texans should take Vince Young. It's largely due to his size and athletic ability, big game presence, leadership, and solid passing skills. I just think it's a combination nobody has seen. The fact that he's from Houston matters to me. He seems to be a true "franchise player", you could say the same for Leinart, Bush, or Ferguson, but having witnessed 4 years, it's tough to say that about Carr.

Leinart is a stud as well. This is a great year to be drafting a QB #1, the Young/Leinart choice sure seems to be superior to what Carr/Harrington looked like coming out.

This is the way I see the Texans coming into the draft:

1. If the Texans were drafting on undisputed need, Ferguson is the pick. Getting Ferguson is the "smart" thing to do. I honestly don't understand why there's no push for D'Brickashaw at #1, there's no guarantee we can get him if we trade down, he's clearly a top 4 player. I thought he was the best player in the draft back in October, before the Young and Bush explosions. I now think VY is #1, but my initial instinct may have been right.

2. If the Texans are drafting not on dire need, but for a playmaker, Young is the pick. Our RB play has been better than our QB play. If the zone blocking scheme helps make the runner, investing a #1 pick in the RB seems wasteful when we have one solid RB Davis (big cap number/long term deal) and another proven runner in Wells. No one here is the final judge of talent, so maybe Leinart is the better pick if we want to improve the O for the longhaul. I would prefer him to Bush. I don't think the Texans are one year away. So the whole "It'll take Vince Young time" thing doesn't bother me. I'm interested in the long term future of the team, and I don't think Carr is the answer. The time spent on Carr is a sunk cost, it's no reason to keep him.

3. If the Texans think they can win next year or in 2007, Bush is the pick. Clearly, he is the quickest impact player. He will significantly improve the offense of whatever team he plays for. He might be the next LT/Faulk, then again he might not be a guy to build a franchise around. But if you are confident in your QB (Carr), have a good tough runner (Wells or DD), and a superstar WR (Johnson), he can definitely take your offense to the next level.
Nobody likes to hear it after 4 tough years, but I see the Texans in rebuilding mode. There's really no core area of strength to focus around. My fear is that drafting Bush will be a short term boost, but two years down the line David Carr won't be any better in the pocket or any more of a winner.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
TEXANFAN23435 said:
Behind this current OL, VY would find out very fast that in the NFL you have DL who weigh 300+ and can chase you down inside of 5 yards and make that even sooner for the 250+ pound LB's. There's just no way of knowing how VY would handle the pressure of a failing pocket especially when he realizes his feet won't always bail him out.
Is this what happened to David?? if so, fine. I've seen how David has risen to the challenge. I'm ready to move on.
It's a good thing only QBs have to worry about bigger faster DLs, and LBs, other wise Reggie wouldn't stand a chance.
TEXANFAN23435 said:
Yeah, he got away with it at the college level but its different with no OL. Getting DE-CLEATED from the blindside will certainly lower your moxey levels. I noticed VY didn't really face that kind of pressure this year and he had time to check off multiple routes before throwing the ball which resulted in a very good season. Why didn't he accomplish this years results in his previous 2 years as a starter?
I'm sure you've been corrected by now.... or at least explained that he didn't start the previous two years. I also wanted to thank you for being able to see something the other RB man-lovers deny(the text that is underlined)
TEXANFAN23435 said:
At the NFL level, Vick ( who's faster than VY ) was exposed when defenses contained him. Where did Vick's escapability and team leading rusher stats get the Falcons this year?? If Vick doesn't learn how to read defenses, DC's are only going to get better at making him one dimensional and Falcon fans will eventually sour on him.
for whatever knock you've got on Vince(even tough there is no basis for the comparison) you can apply to Vick. Didn't play in an NFL system in college, toooo risky, bad throwing motion, runs too much, Vick got his team to the NFC Championship game. This year, his team won more with him, than without.
TEXANFAN23435 said:
I do not want to single out VY, but because of our current OL situation, I honestly feel there is not 1 current NFL QB with experience much less a rookie who could have come in here this year and led our team to the playoffs coming off of last seasons 7-9 campaign.
Now see that is were you are wrong....... way wrong.
Have you ever seen David run to the sideline, with the ball in his hand?? What did you want him to do with it?? Go on, you can say it.... THROW THE DAAAMMM BALL FOR KRIIIIST SAKE... now, can you think of any QBs in the league, that you don't have to tell that too?? Now on those occasions, and every other situation, when the pocket collapsed, and David started running just imagine a QB who completes 60% in those situations. do you think he could have done better than Carr?? be honest now, if David got out of the pocket, let's assume this other QB could get out of the pocket. When he is on the run his completion percentage goes up. Isn't it feesible, that he would have done better??? And there are others...Of course, if Pittsburgh is in town, it's understandable that he might not be able to get anything done...so that game is still a loss.... but every other game, could very well have been a win.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Dr. Toro said:
I am not opposed to a Leinart-Young debate.

To officially state my position, I think the Texans should take Vince Young. It's largely due to his size and athletic ability, big game presence, leadership, and solid passing skills. I just think it's a combination nobody has seen. The fact that he's from Houston matters to me. He seems to be a true "franchise player", you could say the same for Leinart, Bush, or Ferguson, but having witnessed 4 years, it's tough to say that about Carr.

Leinart is a stud as well. This is a great year to be drafting a QB #1, the Young/Leinart choice sure seems to be superior to what Carr/Harrington looked like coming out.

This is the way I see the Texans coming into the draft:

1. If the Texans were drafting on undisputed need, Ferguson is the pick. Getting Ferguson is the "smart" thing to do. I honestly don't understand why there's no push for D'Brickashaw at #1, there's no guarantee we can get him if we trade down, he's clearly a top 4 player. I thought he was the best player in the draft back in October, before the Young and Bush explosions. I now think VY is #1, but my initial instinct may have been right.

2. If the Texans are drafting not on dire need, but for a playmaker, Young is the pick. Our RB play has been better than our QB play. If the zone blocking scheme helps make the runner, investing a #1 pick in the RB seems wasteful when we have one solid RB Davis (big cap number/long term deal) and another proven runner in Wells. No one here is the final judge of talent, so maybe Leinart is the better pick if we want to improve the O for the longhaul. I would prefer him to Bush. I don't think the Texans are one year away. So the whole "It'll take Vince Young time" thing doesn't bother me. I'm interested in the long term future of the team, and I don't think Carr is the answer. The time spent on Carr is a sunk cost, it's no reason to keep him.

3. If the Texans think they can win next year or in 2007, Bush is the pick. Clearly, he is the quickest impact player. He will significantly improve the offense of whatever team he plays for. He might be the next LT/Faulk, then again he might not be a guy to build a franchise around. But if you are confident in your QB (Carr), have a good tough runner (Wells or DD), and a superstar WR (Johnson), he can definitely take your offense to the next level.
Nobody likes to hear it after 4 tough years, but I see the Texans in rebuilding mode. There's really no core area of strength to focus around. My fear is that drafting Bush will be a short term boost, but two years down the line David Carr won't be any better in the pocket or any more of a winner.
D'Brick has got issues just like any one else. I firmly believe, that if you want to fix the O, plug it with a FA worth his Paycheck. In this case, Bentley. put him in at Center, and all of a sudden both sides of your Oline start to look competent. Move him to the left side, and you've basically got a fort knox kinda thing over there.
Now, you can use your first overall, for first overall kinda talent, pick up an Offensive lineman, preferrably a left tackle, that you can start grooming.

Also look for young O-Lineman that will be getting cut after Training Camp start.... there maybe one guy that didn't fit another system, that would excell in yours........ They may not start, but might be servicable, and earn themselves spots on next years roster.....


By the way, did I say good post
 

Dr. Toro

Rookie
I know D'Brickashaw (I prefer the full name in all its glory) ain't perfect. I do like the idea of Bentley. There will be several FA linemen available, we should get one regardless of what we do in the draft. Mike Williams is one of those guys that might get cut, he might be worth a look. I don't know if Ferguson is an Orlando Pace caliber guy, but in years past he might have been #1. I'm not saying we should spend the #1 pick on him, but it seems unlikely we could get him if we traded down. The Jets might covet him, especially if being a hometown boy matters outside of Houston.
 

jerek

Pro Hobbyist
Where's Leinart?

Simple: dropping his name does nothing to further Young fanatics' agenda.
 

swtbound07

Jackass of Day!
HoustonFrog said:
These posts crack me up because their main goal is not to find a better guy to draft but to discredit someone who is a good kid and awesome player. VY has improved every year. His throwing has been excellent and he had one of the highest QB ratings this year, part of it completion percentage. Jack Pardee was on the radio yesterday and said with his coaching knowlege the guy would fit perfectly in a system like the Colts run. I'm so tired of the Vick comparisons. There is a big difference besides Vick not being able to throw...Vick never won jack in college and hasn't led a team to anything. Vince is a winner, plain and simple. And I am a Bush draft supporter. Stop putting down a guy because you don't like the hype.

Anybody else remember vick leading v-tech to the national championship game, and almost singlehandedly beating a very very very good florida state team? dont say he never led his team...cause i distinctly remember him putting v-tech on his back
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Dr. Toro said:
I know D'Brickashaw (I prefer the full name in all its glory) ain't perfect. I do like the idea of Bentley. There will be several FA linemen available, we should get one regardless of what we do in the draft. Mike Williams is one of those guys that might get cut, he might be worth a look. I don't know if Ferguson is an Orlando Pace caliber guy, but in years past he might have been #1. I'm not saying we should spend the #1 pick on him, but it seems unlikely we could get him if we traded down. The Jets might covet him, especially if being a hometown boy matters outside of Houston.

I'm just saying FA comes before the draft..... if we land Bentley, then our need to pick on OT in the Draft diminishes quite a bit. We've got the Draft, we've got FA, and a lot of guys will be getting cut to make the 52 man roster before the season starts. The draft is not the only solution to the OL.
 

MorKnolle

All Pro
thunderkyss said:
I'm just saying FA comes before the draft..... if we land Bentley, then our need to pick on OT in the Draft diminishes quite a bit. We've got the Draft, we've got FA, and a lot of guys will be getting cut to make the 52 man roster before the season starts. The draft is not the only solution to the OL.
Bentley would be a great addition if we can indeed keep him from going to Cleveland, however adding him doesn't change the fact that Todd Wade is not very good at all and we need a new OT. If anything bringing in Bentley, drafting another OG and solidifying the interior of our line almost makes it more imperative that we get a new OT. If our OLine is going to suck, we might as well have a couple guys on there that are terrible and concentrate on fixing up our defense and getting offensive playmakers, but if we're going to fix up the rest of our OLine but still have that glaring hole at RT then we're still going to have our pass protection break down a lot.
If we're going to attempt to fix up the offense, let's do it all the way and get this team going and see what our offense can do with Kubiak leading the way.
 

C Madd

Waterboy
txlonghorn14 said:
if leinart had the same amount of heart or more than Vince does, than Leinart and USC would be 3 Peat National Champs. Oh, thats right......Vince and Texas shocked the nation
That's the stupidest, most illogical statement I've seen on these boards in a while. I guess Leinart's 2 to Vince's 1 means Vince is better. How can you say Vince has more heart? I'm fairly sure this isn't a measurable statistic. He definitely didn't have heart to win those 2....jeez.
 

awtysst

Draft Guru
C Madd said:
That's the stupidest, most illogical statement I've seen on these boards in a while. I guess Leinart's 2 to Vince's 1 means Vince is better. How can you say Vince has more heart? I'm fairly sure this isn't a measurable statistic. He definitely didn't have heart to win those 2....jeez.

Actually leinart has one. LSU won 1, usc 1, UT 1.
I dont recognize the USC of three years back.
 

C Madd

Waterboy
awtysst said:
Actually leinart has one. LSU won 1, usc 1, UT 1.
I dont recognize the USC of three years back.
No offense, and definitely not trying to be a jerk, but didn't the AP poll recognize them? I think they have a bit more say than you.
 

swtbound07

Jackass of Day!
C Madd said:
No offense, and definitely not trying to be a jerk, but didn't the AP poll recognize them? I think they have a bit more say than you.

the ap poll basically laughed in the face of the bcs system and went completely against what they said they would...that would be the same as the ap poll declaring auburn national champions last year. USC's first was bogus...oklahoma game was the only legit championship
 

C Madd

Waterboy
If Texas won the AP poll, no one would be saying anything...they would have had 2, but since its USC its just "1".

And none of this changes the fact that its illogical say Vince has more heart than Leinart because of 1 game.
 

texplayer2

Waterboy
awtysst said:
Actually leinart has one. LSU won 1, usc 1, UT 1.
I dont recognize the USC of three years back.
Watch the Superbowl then, and check out Troy P. on the World Champion Steelers. He was their 3yrs ago do you recognize where he is at? SC was ranked #1 going into the title game 3 yrs. ago. by Coaches and AP. They didn't lose, how could they not be the NC. I don't let computers tell me how to think or who is #1. If you go by that Logic then, know that UT is already below SC in all the pre-season polls I have seen, and I don't buy them losing that spot at #1 until they have their first loss next year. You think West Virginia is #1 now? I don't.
As far as the Lienert/Young thing. Lienert loss two games in his college career by a field goal each. What was the point spread for Vince? In college the wins and losses mean a WHOLE lot more than stats. Stats are for guys already in the NFL and who generally lose at least a fourth of their games every year.:twocents:
 

swtbound07

Jackass of Day!
texplayer2 said:
Watch the Superbowl then, and check out Troy P. on the World Champion Steelers. He was their 3yrs ago do you recognize where he is at? SC was ranked #1 going into the title game 3 yrs. ago. by Coaches and AP. They didn't lose, how could they not be the NC. I don't let computers tell me how to think or who is #1. If you go by that Logic then, know that UT is already below SC in all the pre-season polls I have seen, and I don't buy them losing that spot at #1 until they have their first loss next year. You think West Virginia is #1 now? I don't.
As far as the Lienert/Young thing. Lienert loss two games in his college career by a field goal each. What was the point spread for Vince? In college the wins and losses mean a WHOLE lot more than stats. Stats are for guys already in the NFL and who generally lose at least a fourth of their games every year.:twocents:

thats a false arguement. its like saying the colts should be nfl champions because vic carruci has them #1 in his power rankings. USC wasnt in the BCS championship game. Period. Thats the closest thing you have in college football to a playoff. USC wasnt playing for the national championship, and the AP poll violated their agreement to recognize the bcs champion. LSU won it fair and square, and the split championship was bs. Then, that shoe didnt apply the next year when they won the bcs game and auburn went undefeated...where is the split national championship game? USC=1 BCS Championship, LSU= 1 BCS championship, UT=1 BCS Championship. Thats the only way you crown a champion right now. The Associated Press has no bearing, and no Trophy.
 
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