How do we know that drafting another weapon for our qb is a good idea. I like both top picks in the draft, they are both great players. However, when you build anything you have to have a solid foundation to hold everything up. Right? When you look at it this way our team's foundation wouldn't allow any great offense player to exceed in his career. If I was the one making choices here I would forgo both players and or get them and trade them for some really great big talented foundation guys. Guys that eat metal for breakfast. Guys that the other teams would think twice about saying anything about their momma during the game. Guys that we have to bring to the stadium in cages. Thats the type of offense and defense linemen we need.
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What happened to needing a dl and ol
- Thread starter jmlockett
- Start date
Paragon Blue
Waterboy
The guys that we have up front can't be that bad. I think with some better coaches we will be alright!!jmlockett said:
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
Seems to me like a reasonable question. I posed it yesterday and it seemed like everyone was hanging out on the VY and RB threads. It hasn't been a secret since the team started that they needed help on the O-line (and the D-line, for that matter.) 4 years later, seems like the same song and dance.
jacquescas
Veteran
This is a strong Draft for O lineman and one or two will surely be around for our other first day picks.
Winston Justice, Jean Max-Giles, Devin Brown, Jeremy Trueblood could all be around for our second and 3rd round picks.
Winston Justice, Jean Max-Giles, Devin Brown, Jeremy Trueblood could all be around for our second and 3rd round picks.
jacquescas
Veteran
If you think about it after the 1st pick we basically have 4 more first day picks, cause we have the 1st in the second, the 1st and 2nd in the 3rd and the 1st in the 4th that lets us have a day off and come in and scoop up anyone who fell off day one.
Those 4 picks could be devided between offensive and defensive line and fix the problem
Those 4 picks could be devided between offensive and defensive line and fix the problem
ComstockLode
Waterboy
You know whats awesome, we now have 4 DTs with millions upon millions tied up in and no defensive ends. Thats awesome.
edo783
Hall of Fame
For 4 years we have chased after the next shinny object like a Book Trout. It is time to fix the CORE of the team. It's the purple elefant in the room that every one knows is there and no one wants to address. Trade down and build the core and build the team the way it SHOULD have been in the first place. From the inside out. There are too many things that have to be fixed to just wait to the second round, we NEED more picks.
Time to do the un-sexy, hard to do, be an adult thing.
Time to do the un-sexy, hard to do, be an adult thing.
Htown34s
Waterboy
Well for one thing we'd be getting Hodgdon back from injury. He was a noticeable improvement from McKinney. We could take whichever OT falls out of the first round with our 2nd. Put him at RT while he gets used to the speed of the game.
I'd really like to get that monster Taitusi Lutui from USC with our 3rd pick. He may actually be able to play RT also. He is fairly quick for being 370 lbs (!!).
Another glaring hole we have is at CB. Faggins did OK, but he shouldn't be a starter.
If we do switch to a 4-3, I imagine we'd have to trade one of our DT's. I think Robaire Smith would have the most value, but his contract could become an albatross.
I'd really like to get that monster Taitusi Lutui from USC with our 3rd pick. He may actually be able to play RT also. He is fairly quick for being 370 lbs (!!).
Another glaring hole we have is at CB. Faggins did OK, but he shouldn't be a starter.
ComstockLode said:
If we do switch to a 4-3, I imagine we'd have to trade one of our DT's. I think Robaire Smith would have the most value, but his contract could become an albatross.
We hava a lot of cash tied up in the DL. I think we should draft a couple of DL in the 3rd round or later to groom to replace them in a couple of years. This is a good draft for DL and we should get good value.
This is the best draft for OL in decades. You figure in the trend for teams to draft need over BPA and we should be able to get at least 2 quality OL when we pick in the first 4 rounds (33,65,66,97).
I would go
#33 OT/TE/OG
If one of the three stud TEs or one of the top OTs drop, gotta take him.
If those are gone, a stud OG like Jean-Giles would be sweet.
#65 Tutui - if he is still there, you gotta take him. Might even trade up.
#66 BPA - We have a lot of needs - someone good will slip (cb/s/lb/dl/ol)
OTs we might get here:
Daryn Colledge 6-5, 296 Boise State
Andrew Whitworth 6-7, 330 LSU
Jabari Levey 6-5, 320 South Carolina
Jami Hightower 6-4, 365 Texas A&M
Zach Strief 6-7, 350 Northwestern
Jeremy Trueblood 6-8, 320 Boston College
#97 Still BPA - but I think we could get a solid C/OG here:
Kyle Young 6-5, 320 Fresno State
Mike Degory 6-5, 296 Florida
Nick Mangold 6-4, 300 Ohio State
This is the best draft for OL in decades. You figure in the trend for teams to draft need over BPA and we should be able to get at least 2 quality OL when we pick in the first 4 rounds (33,65,66,97).
I would go
#33 OT/TE/OG
If one of the three stud TEs or one of the top OTs drop, gotta take him.
If those are gone, a stud OG like Jean-Giles would be sweet.
#65 Tutui - if he is still there, you gotta take him. Might even trade up.
#66 BPA - We have a lot of needs - someone good will slip (cb/s/lb/dl/ol)
OTs we might get here:
Daryn Colledge 6-5, 296 Boise State
Andrew Whitworth 6-7, 330 LSU
Jabari Levey 6-5, 320 South Carolina
Jami Hightower 6-4, 365 Texas A&M
Zach Strief 6-7, 350 Northwestern
Jeremy Trueblood 6-8, 320 Boston College
#97 Still BPA - but I think we could get a solid C/OG here:
Kyle Young 6-5, 320 Fresno State
Mike Degory 6-5, 296 Florida
Nick Mangold 6-4, 300 Ohio State
I'd cheer (and then LMAO) if the Texans made some kind of blockbuster deal with our pick. This has to be one of the most valuable no. 1 picks of all time.
Wolfman's Brother
Practice Squad
A great QB will make that offensive line look better. Carr puts himself and his line in bad posistions out there ending up sacked. very little pocket awarness. He has made them look worse than they are. Of course I agree that the line on both sides of the ball are WAY overpaid. Especially Wade!
They should look to pick up some true LB's especially an awesome MLB in Free Agency.
They should look to pick up some true LB's especially an awesome MLB in Free Agency.
I still think we need to build the Offensive Line, and get some fear inspiring Defensive threats. But very few of the players on our team look like they are worth the money we are paying them. And we have the same bunch of guys looking to pick a few more.
Now, when these guys are saying without a doubt, we will pick Reggie Bush with our first pick..... enough is enough. If we're going to do something like that, if we're going to pick an offensive playmaker, get the best playmaker available.
Now, when these guys are saying without a doubt, we will pick Reggie Bush with our first pick..... enough is enough. If we're going to do something like that, if we're going to pick an offensive playmaker, get the best playmaker available.
jmerog
Waterboy
YES! YES! YES! I couln't agree more. I have been saying the same thing to anyone who will listen (which is almost no one). Behind a growling,slobbering, brutish O-line, we can run the the ball with peewee herman if we have to for 5 at a time. An o-line gives Dave all day to throw and cures most of his ills and a few wins will cure the rest.edo783 said:
Imagine this: 1st down,20 YD line- four wide reciever set-Carr drops back to pass.he looks to his first read, Johnson, who is covered- then to the other side where Mathis (who has been practicing catches in the off season) is streaking down the sidelines streatching the defense to the breaking point. O-line is still providing impenatrable coverage so Dave has all day. They have a deep safety crossing to cover Mathis. Dave looks to his third read Mr. Automatic (armstrong), who is open because of all the coverage was focused on johnson, the flash (Mathis) and Gaffney. Armstrong catches the ball for a 23 YD gain.
1st down: 43 yd line, # WR set Johnson,Gaffney, Mathis-The ball is snapped.Carr drops back and goes through his reads and Does a play action pass to freeze the defense which is streatched all across the field, desperatly trying to cover both Mathis and johnson while still acounting for Gaffney. Dve hands the ball to DD. the o-line blows a hole ,which is easy because they are unnatural animals we traded our pick to get , and also because the defense is streatched across the field due to our studly recieving core.DD
hits the hole hard and goes the distance.
TOUCHDOWN!!!!
Erratic Assassin
Rookie
jmlockett said:
The problem has been staring us in the face for 4 years. We KNOW that we cannot win with the world's worst offensive line no matter who our QB is and who our RB is. We've known it for years.
Yet every year we lose sight of what's important. We think there is a shortcut. We convince ourselves that a wide receiver will take pressure off the line, even though the play is over before the WR gets a chance to get open. We convince ourselves that a QB can win 2 games a year by himself, even though he can't even complete a pass, much less win a game lying on his back.
There are NO SHORTCUTS! You must build your foundation first, then build the rest afterward.
Fans are fickle. We get distracted too easily by the sexy pick. Reggie Bush went from the greatest pro prospect in 40 years (I'm not kidding) and overnight things changed so much that people are going to lose their minds if we DO draft him. Reminds me of the way people went nuts over Michael Vick.
Forget the hype and do things the right way.
dat_boy_yec
Rookie
edo783 said:
You mean Travis Johnson was a shiny object. I kinda thought Hall was shinier than Robinson. Can't wait for the second round. How can we ask a team to give us more picks this yr in the first rd. if they only have 1 pick in that round. If we trade down we HAVE to wait till the second rd. for any picks the team we trade down with could have given us.
It's not hard to figure out. O-Line is what we need. Get Carr the protection and he will have the time to look around the field and to someone other than Johnson. Davis has been putting up good numbers despite not having the best blocking. Could you imagine him on a team like Indi, he would kill the league. I'm surprised that Carr played the way he did. The protection was so bad yet he still put up decent numbers. And what I like about Carr/Davis/Johnson, you don't hear them complaining. Give them some respect.
The Preacher
Waterboy
Best thread in here in a while. 
edo783 said:
Brilliant post. The fact of the matter is skill players are overhyped by the media because they are more marketable. Those skill players thrive in SYSTEMS, not on talent alone. Systems are best executed when the line of scrimmage is controlled. For a QB and an RB to execute with complete conviction, and for them to have no hesitation to throw a laser or hit a hole at full speed they must be able to trust that the opportunity (e.g. time in the pocket, open holes) will be there without exception. Lack of this trust created doubt which clouds the mind and leads to poor decisions etc. All those "football gurus" on here who claim Carr has no decision making skills do not understand this concept of relaxed confidence. It can only happen if the line of scrimmage is controlled.
Texans86
Rookie
As of when I write this post, working on OL and keeping Carr is in the lead, by a pretty good margin. I am so glad that people are using their heads and instead of doing what the media has told us to do. The game is won in the trenches. This fix the offensive line idea has been around as long as the Texans, this year I hope they finally realize it.
Keep Carr, fix the OL.
Keep Carr, fix the OL.
J-Storm
Waterboy
thunderkyss said:
See that's the problem. I don't want flashy guys and salary cap probs in the future like the Titans for instance. I want "W's" and not "L's" so I don't mind if we have guys getting us those "W's" who aren't flashy. It seems to work for the Patriots after all, I wouldn't say they have a stellar cast of flash players...
J-Storm said:
One of the smartest posts I've seen so far. We definately don't need flashy players to win. The Patriots are the perfect example. They don't have a big named TE, their receivers are all 2nd grade receivers and they don't have that game breaking "Double Coverage Needed" type receivers. On D, other than Seymour, Brushci and Harrison, they are alot of low key players. Also don't forget who their coach is
Thank you for this post! I was beginning to lose faith in Texan fans!
Build an offense and keep Carr. Without an offensive line, we are going nowhere fast. You can have an average QB and an average RB behind a stellar line and voila! Average becomes great! The time has come for the Texans to do the unpopular thing and draft mammoth linemen who live to block and tackle. It may not be the flashy, newsworthy thing to do, but it will win games. In the end, winning is what counts - not soundbites or the popular player of the day. One person does not a football team make and we need a few serious, scary, killer offensive and defensive players.
Build an offense and keep Carr. Without an offensive line, we are going nowhere fast. You can have an average QB and an average RB behind a stellar line and voila! Average becomes great! The time has come for the Texans to do the unpopular thing and draft mammoth linemen who live to block and tackle. It may not be the flashy, newsworthy thing to do, but it will win games. In the end, winning is what counts - not soundbites or the popular player of the day. One person does not a football team make and we need a few serious, scary, killer offensive and defensive players.
jmlockett said:
Hooray!
I really didn't want the world to think Texan fans had lost their collective football sense. As to the offensive line, ESPN has D'Brickashaw listed as the #2 most talented in the draft. I have moved from the undecided camp to the Ferguson camp.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/index
This is the most important year for the Texans. The first 3 years were all gravy, just happy to have the NFL back in town. Now, this past year was miserable; the losing was insane.
Carr, Johnson, and Davis are a formidable combination. Davis needs less touches; he can't handle the pounding of a complete season.
The Texans have the top pick in each of the first 4 rounds. That means they get the opportunity to draft the best player per round. Or trade for multiple picks
And what a draft to be at the top
The only O-Lineman position worth such a high pick or equivalent in trade is a franchise left tackle. Let's not forget that the O-Line depth can be attained with the second round pick and one of the 3rd round picks.
It is real important to build the Offensive line and the Defensive line. I'm ok with trading the pick, with a deal that blows your mind away. So, the top pick is going to have to worth this A LOT. Not parting with the 1st pick unless a deal is too good to pass up.
Carr, Johnson, and Davis are a formidable combination. Davis needs less touches; he can't handle the pounding of a complete season.
The Texans have the top pick in each of the first 4 rounds. That means they get the opportunity to draft the best player per round. Or trade for multiple picks
And what a draft to be at the top The only O-Lineman position worth such a high pick or equivalent in trade is a franchise left tackle. Let's not forget that the O-Line depth can be attained with the second round pick and one of the 3rd round picks.
It is real important to build the Offensive line and the Defensive line. I'm ok with trading the pick, with a deal that blows your mind away. So, the top pick is going to have to worth this A LOT. Not parting with the 1st pick unless a deal is too good to pass up.
How about the OL and the entire defense? I notice you didn't have that option in your poll. That's why we need a boatload of good picks. Chicago and teams like Baltimore and the NYG have all showed how far a good defense can take you, even when your offense is below par. If the defense would have gotten more takeaways this year and given the Texans more short fields to work with, then things would have been a lot different.
michaelm
vox nihili
Does anyone believe that we can take Bush and still improve the line?
I mean, at the moment it looks like Bush is the pick. Considering this, is it possible that we can make even a single FA move, draft one or two OL and see some improvement?
At the moment, it looks like Kubiak is the pick for HC. Do you think it's possible that his system could account for some improvement? I do.
It's not that big of a reach for me to think this line could improve to being average to half decent with one or two player additions and a HC like Kubiak.
I believe that there are rumors that he may bring his current OL coach with him as OC. That seems like a pretty good thing to me.
I mean, at the moment it looks like Bush is the pick. Considering this, is it possible that we can make even a single FA move, draft one or two OL and see some improvement?
At the moment, it looks like Kubiak is the pick for HC. Do you think it's possible that his system could account for some improvement? I do.
It's not that big of a reach for me to think this line could improve to being average to half decent with one or two player additions and a HC like Kubiak.
I believe that there are rumors that he may bring his current OL coach with him as OC. That seems like a pretty good thing to me.