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"IT" - The difference between VY and Carr

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The Dream

The Dream

All Pro
Now this isn't just another thread praising VY, and crapping on Carr.......this is the main difference between these 2 players....I like to call it, the "IT" factor......Like I've mentioned before David is a nice going, classy, family guy....now while this may be good traits to have as a person, when you're the "leader" of your team it might not be the best thing.......I think everyone can agree (even Carr supporters), that David has never shown that fire after losing Sunday after Sunday.....it's usually the same old easy going, smiling QB after each game, even if they got crushed.....now as a leader of your team, I expect a guy to have a nasty, disgusting look on his face....why???.....not because he's a bad sport or because he's too immature to handle a loss....because he's a leader, and damnit, that's what leaders do..........Now lets take a look at VY........After losing out to Reggie Bush for the Heisman he was angry, disgruntled, perhaps even a little depressed.....so what did Vince do, first he displayed his displeasure to the national media, saying that he let his University, Family, and even the city of Houston down.....Vince used losing the Heisman, as fuel for the fire.......he said to himself (and in various articles) that he WANTED to prove everyone wrong, by going out at the Rose Bowl and playing fantastic........that he did, and after the game he even chanted "who's the heisman".....now some may say this is cocky, but it ain't cocky if you can back it up........when it comes down to it, we can argue all day about Carr not having a line, and having bad coaching as an excuse for his average play.....and those things are good excuses....but one thing we can't argue is that Carr does not have, what Vince has.....and that's not foot speed, or reading a defense, it's "IT".......Hakeem Olajuwon had "IT", when David Robinson was handed the MVP trophy in the 95 WCF, Hakeem went out and flat out embarrassed D Rob throughout the series......Michael Jordan had "IT" when he was accused of being a one man show, who would never win titles.....we all know how that turned out.....the bottom line is that we can argue all day, about the pros and cons of each QB, but when it comes down to it, Vince Young has "IT" and David doesn't.

Feel free to discuss
 
Vince Young hasn't played in the pros. David Carr has never had enough time to execute plays behind his o-line.

I will stand behind Carr until he proves he can't lead the team. He is the face of our team.

That is all.
 
Vince Young hasn't played in the pros. David Carr has never had enough time to execute plays behind his o-line.

I will stand behind Carr until he proves he can't lead the team. He is the face of our team.

That is all.
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No offense but that post really had nothing to do with my post....this isn't about executing plays or Vince not playing in the pros, this is about the "IT" factor.
 
A lot of people have confidence and appear to be great leaders when they are in college. The NFL is much different.
 
aggiechance said:
Vince Young hasn't played in the pros. David Carr has never had enough time to execute plays behind his o-line.

I will stand behind Carr until he proves he can't lead the team. He is the face of our team.

That is all.
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I believe the man was trying to say "You can have IT in Grade school and Jr high, but IT takes on a whole new meaning when you step onto the Highschool grounds. Not to diminish your fine post, but perhaps VY needs to have tasted what DC has before we compare the IT factor between them.
 
The Dream said:
Now this isn't just another thread praising VY, and crapping on Carr.......this is the main difference between these 2 players....I like to call it, the "IT" factor......Like I've mentioned before David is a nice going, classy, family guy....now while this may be good traits to have as a person, when you're the "leader" of your team it might not be the best thing.......I think everyone can agree (even Carr supporters), that David has never shown that fire after losing Sunday after Sunday.....it's usually the same old easy going, smiling QB after each game, even if they got crushed.....now as a leader of your team, I expect a guy to have a nasty, disgusting look on his face....why???.....not because he's a bad sport or because he's too immature to handle a loss....because he's a leader, and damnit, that's what leaders do..........Now lets take a look at VY........After losing out to Reggie Bush for the Heisman he was angry, disgruntled, perhaps even a little depressed.....so what did Vince do, first he displayed his displeasure to the national media, saying that he let his University, Family, and even the city of Houston down.....Vince used losing the Heisman, as fuel for the fire.......he said to himself (and in various articles) that he WANTED to prove everyone wrong, by going out at the Rose Bowl and playing fantastic........that he did, and after the game he even chanted "who's the heisman".....now some may say this is cocky, but it ain't cocky if you can back it up........when it comes down to it, we can argue all day about Carr not having a line, and having bad coaching as an excuse for his average play.....and those things are good excuses....but one thing we can't argue is that Carr does not have, what Vince has.....and that's not foot speed, or reading a defense, it's "IT".......Hakeem Olajuwon had "IT", when David Robinson was handed the MVP trophy in the 95 WCF, Hakeem went out and flat out embarrassed D Rob throughout the series......Michael Jordan had "IT" when he was accused of being a one man show, who would never win titles.....we all know how that turned out.....the bottom line is that we can argue all day, about the pros and cons of each QB, but when it comes down to it, Vince Young has "IT" and David doesn't.

Feel free to discuss
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If Vince Young was from USC, you wouldn't even be having this discussion. Carr proved in 2004 that he could do the job. This year was a total meltdown involving every facet of the game and it is those many faceted integracies of the team that need to be fixed -- and that won't happen by burning a #1 overall on positions you are already strong at. It's irrelevant if Young is or isn't better than Carr. The fact is that Carr, if given a good supporting cast, is good enough to win and thus there is no need to draft either Young or Bush, for that matter. Get Carr the supporting cast.
 
No matter the situation if you're losing or winning, you either have the "IT" factor or you don't.......The Lakers were horrible last year, but Kobe Bryant still had that "IT" factor.....to be honest when you're down, I think that's when you're really showing what you're made of.


The fact is that Carr, if given a good supporting cast, is good enough to win
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that's your opinion, not a fact.


If Vince Young was from USC, you wouldn't even be having this discussion.
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Dude I'm a Seminole for life when it comes to college football......I could care less where Vince is from, all I know is I think dude is a special talent and I want him on my home team.

It's irrelevant if Young is or isn't better than Carr.
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LOL.....why is it irrelevant?...I think it's VERY reletive.
 
To keep things in perspective, though, many players have "IT" in college but are complete flops in the pros. Andre Ware, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerffel, Rashaan Salaamm, Jason White, Chris Weinke, Ron Dayne, Ty Detmer...just to name a few Heisman winners that were busts in the NFL. They definitely had some form of "IT" in the college ranks, though.

Not comparing any of the above examples to Vince Young. But rather pointing out that a great college career does not necessarily guarantee any measure of success in professional football.
 
"IT" factor? Please! This is another argument that takes one guys "apples" experiences and compares them to another guys "oranges" accomplishments and then concludes that one of them (The guy they are in favor of) has "IT" but the other one (who they want replaced) doesn't.

"IT" is another imaginary scale that they can compare their hero to Carr on because all we have right now are some stats, which you can't directly compare because of the disparity between the Pro and College game, and a bunch of opinions.

Nobody is going to deny Vince Young a Heisman trophy every week. He's not going to turn some kind of percieved insult to his advantage for the duration of his career. For that matter Hakeem wasn't like the monster you saw destroy David Robinson for the vast majority of his career either. This is an excellent example of taking one performance (or in the case of Hakeem & Robinson a brief series of performances) far out of context and misinterpreting the results. Michael Jordan didn't put on a decade long display of "IT" when he finally won titles, he got a team around him which beat the hell out of trying to do it alone.

Next?
 
Not to slam Carr (even though I'm sure someone will take it that way,) but a better option has presented itself now. When your team goes 2-14 and is the perennial laughingstock of the NFL, you don't "right the ship." You burn it.

When VY first started at UT, there was lots of outcry about how all he could do was run...he couldn't pass...can't read defenses. And, to an extent, they were right. He put the work in, watched film with the OC and got better. He got so much better, he even.... well, you know the rest of the story.

It's not like this is another Bucky Richardson (no offense, Ags. I was all for him when the Oilers got him. I still think he would've fared better in a diffent system.) He's proved the naysayers wrong by adapting and excelling.
 
If you compare on equal terms, college being equal, Carr demonstrated the IT factor quite well if I recall. Awards proving the point. Whether he still has IT, and IT hasn't been knocked out of him, will be yet to be seen this next season. IMO
 
The Dream said:
something about "IT"
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OK, look we know hes got that and much more over Carr.

But can he help the Texans next year??? No, he will probably sit.

Can Bush help next year??? Yes, barring injury, he will definitely help.
 
coreyvice said:
Not to slam Carr (even though I'm sure someone will take it that way,) but a better option has presented itself now. When your team goes 2-14 and is the perennial laughingstock of the NFL, you don't "right the ship." You burn it.

When VY first started at UT, there was lots of outcry about how all he could do was run...he couldn't pass...can't read defenses. And, to an extent, they were right. He put the work in, watched film with the OC and got better. He got so much better, he even.... well, you know the rest of the story.

It's not like this is another Bucky Richardson (no offense, Ags. I was all for him when the Oilers got him. I still think he would've fared better in a diffent system.) He's proved the naysayers wrong by adapting and excelling.
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I don't think that we are a perennial laughing stock. Our record was 7-9 last year and that was the third year of our existence. We were a laughing stock this year but we have already made major changes by firing the coaching staff.
 
"IT" factor? Please! This is another argument that takes one guys "apples" experiences and compares them to another guys "oranges" accomplishments and then concludes that one of them (The guy they are in favor of) has "IT" but the other one (who they want replaced) doesn't.

"IT" is another imaginary scale that they can compare their hero to Carr on because all we have right now are some stats, which you can't directly compare because of the disparity between the Pro and College game, and a bunch of opinions.

Nobody is going to deny Vince Young a Heisman trophy every week. He's not going to turn some kind of percieved insult to his advantage for the duration of his career. For that matter Hakeem wasn't like the monster you saw destroy David Robinson for the vast majority of his career either. This is an excellent example of taking one performance (or in the case of Hakeem & Robinson a brief series of performances) far out of context and misinterpreting the results. Michael Jordan didn't put on a decade long display of "IT" when he finally won titles, he got a team around him which beat the hell out of trying to do it alone.
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This isn't about accomplishments, it's about having the fire and anger.....which David doesn't have.....it's imaginary?!?!?!? :rolleyes: .......I'm sorry but I don't think I was imagining VY leading his team in Highschool and in College....and if you noticed my post wasn't even about stats, because I totally stayed away from that.......dude this isn't about misinterpreting anything, it's about showing that fire and desire to win......you ask every guy on that longhorn team who there leader is (even before the Rose Bowl) and they would tell you Vince......you know what would happen if you asked the Texans players that same question...........crickets would start chirping.......put aside the accomplishments, stats, excuses, and look at the different attitudes in between these two players.


OK, look we know hes got that and much more over Carr.

But can he help the Texans next year??? No, he will probably sit.

Can Bush help next year??? Yes, barring injury, he will definitely help.
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Dude this isn't just about next year, either if we draft Reggie or Vince, this will not be a playoff team next year.....there is a future beyond just "next year"
 
To keep things in perspective, though, many players have "IT" in college but are complete flops in the pros. Andre Ware, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerffel, Rashaan Salaamm, Jason White, Chris Weinke, Ron Dayne, Ty Detmer...just to name a few Heisman winners that were busts in the NFL. They definitely had some form of "IT" in the college ranks, though.
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This is true, but I don't think any of those guys are as talented as Vince.
 
Didn't some people here criticize David Carr for celebrating after scoring a touchdown against the Rams this season?

Which one is it, does he show too much emotion or not enough?
 
aggiechance said:
I will stand behind Carr until he proves he can't lead the team. He is the face of our team.

That is all.
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Well, I guess it's time to sit down then. While Carr is still unproven as far as being a skilled player, he has already proven that he can't lead.

Sitting at 0-3 "This isn't a must win game, but it is a must play well game." said Carr
 
in addition to the outrageous, unbelievable physical abilities of vince (carr is not in his class), vy has the will and confidence to put the entire team (players, coaches and fans) on his shoulders and lead them to victory in clutch situations - the players, coaches and fans at madison and texas know this. carr? NO.
 
Double Barrel said:
To keep things in perspective, though, many players have "IT" in college but are complete flops in the pros. Andre Ware, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerffel, Rashaan Salaamm, Jason White, Chris Weinke, Ron Dayne, Ty Detmer...just to name a few Heisman winners that were busts in the NFL. They definitely had some form of "IT" in the college ranks, though.

Not comparing any of the above examples to Vince Young. But rather pointing out that a great college career does not necessarily guarantee any measure of success in professional football.
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DB you nailed it!!! Don't forget Klingler, and any QB coming out of Texas Tech or HI!! Guys, I can't wait for the draft or an indication as to what the team will do...Lord, can you imagine 3 more months of this...Double Barrel pleaseloan me you shotgun!!!
 
I haven't seen so much discussion about IT since I studied Jack Keruac's On The Road in college.
 
It seems most people just try to focus on negative aspects of Carr. Carr is talented or he wouldn't be in the NFL. Let's talk about what type of shape VY(superman) would be in after a million sacks.
 
I didn't mention anything negative about Carr, this is just about him not being a leader......that's not a knock on him, it's just the flat out truth.
 
I saw, throughout the years, a pissed off David, mad at the fact that we were losing and certain players were ****ing up. This past season there were even a few times this year.. The laughing and smiling after the losses he did alot this year was more of a "Yeah coach, you suck and I'm glad we're losing so we can get rid of your *** along with all your worthless cordinators".. Think about IT
 
"Yeah coach, you suck and I'm glad we're losing so we can get rid of your *** along with all your worthless cordinators"..
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I doubt this, David was playing for an extension and maybe even his job this past season.
 
MightyTExan said:
It seems most people just try to focus on negative aspects of Carr. Carr is talented or he wouldn't be in the NFL. Let's talk about what type of shape VY(superman) would be in after a million sacks.
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I honestly don't think VY would take as many sacks. I lost count of how many sacks Carr took that were his own fault. The guy has ZERO poise. At the first sign of trouble he either falls down or takes off running into defenders. I made that comment several times last season long before I ever imagined VY playing in the NFL.
 
understandably but if you were a super stud surrounded by crap wouldn't you careless if you were traded? I know I wouldn't want to continue to endure thecrap he did for four years. He knows he is good and if he lost his job here he would be picked up elsewhere and given the opportunity to show the NFL what a real QB is.. but I'm not saying he is better than Young..
 
eric138 said:
but I'm not saying he is better than Young..
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In all the arguing, I have yet to hear anyone say that. IMO, that's why we should take Young. We don't have a need for Reggie Bush any more than we have for VY.
 
Dream, I am not disagreeing with you at all, matter of fact this is THE reason I don't like David Carr. He is not a leader of any level... He is just one of the guys.. Vince WILL be a leader and thats what we need.
 
Hervoyel said:
"IT" factor? Please! This is another argument that takes one guys "apples" experiences and compares them to another guys "oranges" accomplishments and then concludes that one of them (The guy they are in favor of) has "IT" but the other one (who they want replaced) doesn't.

"IT" is another imaginary scale that they can compare their hero to Carr on because all we have right now are some stats, which you can't directly compare because of the disparity between the Pro and College game, and a bunch of opinions.

Nobody is going to deny Vince Young a Heisman trophy every week. He's not going to turn some kind of percieved insult to his advantage for the duration of his career. For that matter Hakeem wasn't like the monster you saw destroy David Robinson for the vast majority of his career either. This is an excellent example of taking one performance (or in the case of Hakeem & Robinson a brief series of performances) far out of context and misinterpreting the results. Michael Jordan didn't put on a decade long display of "IT" when he finally won titles, he got a team around him which beat the hell out of trying to do it alone.

Next?
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I find so much wrong with this post but I'm not going to break it down completely. How as Hakeem not a monster a vast majority of his career?He averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds his rookie year. He was All-NBA first team 6 years and was only the third man in history to lead the league in blocked shots and rebounds in a year. 2 titles. If you don't think he took the slight personally, you weren't watching. Read the Sports Guy on ESPN, he has a full category of revenge named after this slight..lol And Besides Pippen who was the team that Jordan got?Wettington, Paxson, Cartright? "IT" is real and you can try to shove it under the table and say it isn't there but some guys lead teams to championships and make players better and some are more comfortible watching from the sidelines. This coming from someone who is saying take Bush so lay off the tired UT rhetoric.
 
You guys REALLY think that Carr didn't have "It" or leadership or what ever the heck ya want to call it when he was in college? That is a real BIZZAR thought process, because he was picked #1 overall and NO ONE picks the #1 without checking that out. Do you think he lost the wallet he was keeping it in or something? No, it's there and HAS come out to forfront at times. He and the INTIRE team were stiffeled by a group of coaches who were controll freaks that couldn't develope a game plan for a pop warner team. About mid season last of 04 the team/players gave up trying to work the system that they KNEW wouldn't work and the entire league had figured out and our CRACK team of coaches could adjust from.
 
Here's what we need to ask ourselves right now:

What would David Carr do if he played for UT right now? I think he would wreak havoc on opposing defenses and send them home crying. However, it's not like VY hasn't done some of that himself.

Let Carr face college defenses and see if he has "IT".
 
Hookem Horns said:
Well, I guess it's time to sit down then. While Carr is still unproven as far as being a skilled player, he has already proven that he can't lead.

Sitting at 0-3 "This isn't a must win game, but it is a must play well game." said Carr
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when your on the best college team in the country its a little easier to call a game a must win than when your on a 2 and 14 team.

if carr would of said that the 4th game of the season was a must win and then they lost what would be next. just declare the whole season over.(well they kinda did that anyway but you get the point)
 
Personally, I'm hoping for Young to come in and leade the team in 2007 to the playoffs.. In 2006, I'm hoping for Young to sit on the bench and Texans to get the number one draft again so we can get Peterson for OU..

Young
AJ
Peterson
Davis
Mathis
Bradford

2007 is the IT year.
 
VY couldn't possibly step out and lead a Texans team as a rookie anyway. Theres simply no way some of our experienced vets are going to get all fired up and passionate because some 22 year old kid yells the UT battle cry. You have to earn respect in the NFL, unlike colleg eor highschool where you can get itmuch more quickly with an amazing play or series, etc.
 
I'm glad we have #1 this year, but I sure don't want to ever have it again. How can you want to go through another season like this one?
 
Vince said he wouldn't mind sitting and learning the first year, he seems like a very easy player to work with.
 
eric138 said:
Personally, I'm hoping for Young to come in and leade the team in 2007 to the playoffs.. In 2006, I'm hoping for Young to sit on the bench and Texans to get the number one draft again so we can get Peterson for OU..

Young
AJ
Peterson
Davis
Mathis
Bradford
2007 is the IT year.
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HAHA were goin nowhere if bradford is still our second reciever.....as much as i'd honestly like to see young come here.....we dont need him.
 
TopTexanFan16 said:
HAHA were goin nowhere if bradford is still our second reciever.....as much as i'd honestly like to see young come here.....we dont need him.
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Actually, he has AJ and Mathis ahead of Bradford, but I'd like to see Gaffney and Armstrong ahead of him too. He shouldn't be on that list.
 
HJam72 said:
Actually, he has AJ and Mathis ahead of Bradford, but I'd like to see Gaffney and Armstrong ahead of him too. He shouldn't be on that list.
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o i thought he had mathis up their just as kick returner because i dont think mathis is ready to be a second WR YET he can be but did drop alot of easy catches but in time will be good.
 
If VY has got the kind of IT you say is required then I doubt seriously if he'd be content sitting and learning for a month, much less a year. It's either DC or VY. Can't be both. Got a QB, given the right coaching, he'll lead the team. IMO
 
Yeah, Bradford was the joke addition...
He shouldn't be here in 2004, I mean 2005, **** hopefully 2006.. Someone on this new coaching staff has to see it..
 
If VY has got the kind of IT you say is required then I doubt seriously if he'd be content sitting and learning for a month, much less a year.
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A lot of good QB's have set their first year.....what are you talking about?
 
Texan Asylum said:
If VY has got the kind of IT you say is required then I doubt seriously if he'd be content sitting and learning for a month, much less a year. It's either DC or VY. Can't be both. Got a QB, given the right coaching, he'll lead the team. IMO
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We got a RB too.
Who has performed better over the past 3 seasons?
Carr or DD?
I say DD
They'e both injury prone and Carr has a lot of miles sack-wise (no pun intended)
Do the line-men suck at pass blocking or do they not really to care to block for him?
Do the line-men rock at run-blocking or do they really want to block for DD?
Funny how we got line-men who can only run-block? I don't think you could plan that if your life depended on it.
Is it a leadership issue, is it all coaching or is it kinda both?
 
These guys want to win. They aren't going to block for Davis and let defensive linemen sack David Carr because they don't like him. This isn't the Longest Yard. There is a big difference between pass blocking and run blocking. We have a good run blocking crew but a bad pass blocking crew. It is not something that is uncommon. The Cardinals have a very good pass blocking line but can't run block if their lives depended on it. Does that mean that they hate Marcell Shipp and JJ Arrington? No, it means they aren't good at run blocking.
 
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