Kubiak = NO Vince Young

bdiddy · Jan 5, 2006

If Kubiak is hired as the Texans next HC, the Texans will not draft Vince Young. Kubiak was very high on Carr coming out of the draft, he worked with him over a summer (Kubiak is friends with Jeff Tedford - Cal head coach and QB coach for Carr at Fresno State).

I do not know the direction Kubiak will take the pick, it depends on his assessment of the Texans current talent and greatest area of need. Most likely he will go with the safe pick of Reggie Bush, as this is what Casserly wants.

Kubiak=Carr, to which I am not opposed. I think David would fit very nicely into the West Coast offense run by Denver, he is Jake Plummer with a better arm and a brain (although this is somewhat questionable).

I do think DD may be in a little bit of trouble, mainly because of Reggie Bush's running style. Most scouts would say that DD, Bush, and Morency have similar styles. Obviously with Bush being drafted, and the need to keep Wells size and special teams play, Morency or DD. I do not think we can get much value for DD, but could unload the contract. This may not happen, but one of the running backs will have too go. It could be Wells as is an UFA, but Denver has always favored having a change of pace power back to compliment the speed rushers.

LBC_Justin · Jan 5, 2006

bdiddy said:
If Kubiak is hired as the Texans next HC, the Texans will not draft Vince Young. Kubiak was very high on Carr coming out of the draft, he worked with him over a summer (Kubiak is friends with Jeff Tedford - Cal head coach and QB coach for Carr at Fresno State).

I do not know the direction Kubiak will take the pick, it depends on his assessment of the Texans current talent and greatest area of need. Most likely he will go with the safe pick of Reggie Bush, as this is what Casserly wants.

Kubiak=Carr, to which I am not opposed. I think David would fit very nicely into the West Coast offense run by Denver, he is Jake Plummer with a better arm and a brain (although this is somewhat questionable).

I do think DD may be in a little bit of trouble, mainly because of Reggie Bush's running style. Most scouts would say that DD, Bush, and Morency have similar styles. Obviously with Bush being drafted, and the need to keep Wells size and special teams play, Morency or DD. I do not think we can get much value for DD, but could unload the contract. This may not happen, but one of the running backs will have too go. It could be Wells as is an UFA, but Denver has always favored having a change of pace power back to compliment the speed rushers.

From what I hear, (reading as much stuff on the web as possible) Casserly and Company were very high on Reggie Bush as the #1 pick, that is when Vince Young was a Junior who wasn't planning on coming out and wasn't a local legend and national superstar, that he made himself yesterday.

Also from what I hear, they are going to decide on the first pick before they hire the coach. Or at least make sure the new coach is on board with their decisions.

I love Reggie Bush and think he is probably the way to go. But the other part of me thinks it is crazy to pass on Vince Young. A Super star QB is much harder to find than a quality RB. Plus a QB gets a lot more touches and has a bigger impact on the game. Either way we better beef up our O-line situation with some of those other picks.

Either way has it's risks.

tulexan · Jan 5, 2006

Well tomorrow McNair meets with Kubiak. Kubiak may recommend that the Texans pick Reggie over Vince because David fits his style more than Vince.

Tulip · Jan 5, 2006

I wonder what Dan Reeves thinks of Vince Young as a #1 draft prospect. :hmmm:

bigcarlos · Jan 5, 2006

tulexan said:
Well tomorrow McNair meets with Kubiak. Kubiak may recommend that the Texans pick Reggie over Vince because David fits his style more than Vince.

maybe Gary will not have a choice :redtowel:

texan279 · Jan 5, 2006

If we hire Kubiak as our next HC I think I would almost prefer to retain Carr and see what Kubiak and staff can do with him. And if Vince doesn't declare the choice is made for us.

Tulip · Jan 5, 2006

texan279 said:
And if Vince doesn't declare the choice is made for us.

But the chance of that happening is dwindling fast. I think Mack Brown is actually going to change from his usual course and not try to convince Vince to stay at Texas.

texan279 · Jan 5, 2006

Tulip said:
But the chance of that happening is dwindling fast. I think Mack Brown is actually going to change from his usual course and not try to convince Vince to stay at Texas.

I honestly do not see how Vince can stay another year and risk injury or a bad season after this past season and last night.

Hervoyel · Jan 6, 2006

bigcarlos said:
maybe Gary will not have a choice

I hope that doesn't end up being the case. Anyone else in here care to watch another head coach get force fed something he doesn't like? You guys know how well that worked out last time with Capers.

"Dom, meet Chris. Chris, this is Dom. You'll be working for him"

The new HC needs to be onboard with the program before there even IS a program. If they go looking for someone to come in and say "Yeah, I can do that. I can work with those guys. They'll be fine" then they're going to hire a loser.

bubbajaxonbrown · Jan 6, 2006

How did Reeves deal with Vick (a scrambling QB)? Did he like it or was he frustrated with him all the time? I don't remember. I think this fact will have a lot to do with Reeves' recommendation to McNair.

tulexan · Jan 6, 2006

A coach is going to want his guys. If Gary Kubiak believes that he can have the best chance of winning with David Carr as his QB and Reggie Bush on the team and McNair wants Kubiak then we are probably going to draft Reggie. I don't think McNair is going to say "I don't care who you want we are picking Vince Young" because if he did, then Kubiak would probably say thanks but no thanks.

tulexan · Jan 6, 2006

bubbajaxonbrown said:
How did Reeves deal with Vick (a scrambling QB)? Did he like it or was he frustrated with him all the time? I don't remember. I think this fact will have a lot to do with Reeves' recommendation to McNair.

If I remember correctly, Reeves did have some trouble with him because Michael isn't one of the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Hervoyel · Jan 6, 2006

tulexan said:
Michael isn't one of the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Michael is a knife? I always thought he was more of a spoon, or maybe a "spork"

His choice of an alias backs up your statement. Anyone who could come up with "Ron, Ron Mexico" is either slow on the draw or in the business of naming porn stars.

bubbajaxonbrown · Jan 6, 2006

tulexan said:
If I remember correctly, Reeves did have some trouble with him because Michael isn't one of the sharpest knives in the drawer.

But did he get frustrated with him not staying in the pocket? No matter who Young plays for he is going to tuck and run a little more than he should. All rookies who are scramblers do. All pocket passing rookie QBs throw the ball when they shouldn't and cause INTs. Does anyone know which Reeves prefers to deal with?

El Tejano · Jan 6, 2006

Hulk75 said:
Young just needs to get on a team who runs the read play and is in shootgun 90% of the time.

You know that is a very good point. Many QBs struggle when they come to the NFL and have to learn how to be a QB from under center.

texan279 · Jan 6, 2006

El Tejano said:
You know that is a very good point. Many QBs struggle when they come to the NFL and have to learn how to be a QB from under center.

I read in another thread last night but I have also heard Bill Parcells talk about how QB's have trouble reading defenses in the shotgun which is why Bledsoe is almost never in shotgun formation...

ledzeppelin229 · Jan 6, 2006

Just me but it seems like being in the shotgun would be easier since it would give a better view of the entire defense. But I never played so that's just my theory.

HJam72 · Jan 6, 2006

If we get Kubiak and he stops us from getting Young, that's just perfectly fine with me (I'd rather trade down anyway), but I will be dissappointed if this team takes Bush with the #1 pick (at least until he proves me wrong). Regardless, I have decided that I want Kubiak and I'm willing to put up with that, especially since Bush could very well prove me wrong in the first place. I really worry about him running between the tackles. I didn't see him do it and that was not an NFL defense. It's almost more a question of whether or not he will than whether or not he can. Bounce outside, bounce outside, that's all I saw. Go up to the line, stop, bounce outside. Watching him was very frustrating to me because I just didn't get to see what I was looking for. He had some success, but it was always getting outside.

HoustonFrog · Jan 6, 2006

I think David would fit very nicely into the West Coast offense run by Denver, he is Jake Plummer with a better arm and a brain (although this is somewhat questionable).

Very nice post except I think Carr has rocks for brains and that is his downfall.

HJam72 · Jan 6, 2006

HoustonFrog said:
Very nice post except I think Carr has rocks for brains and that is his downfall.

If he is that stupid, it's because this organization has allowed his brains to be beaten in. I also think that, while the QB may need to be the smartest player, it is not necessary to be a PH.D.

Marcus · Jan 6, 2006

texan279 said:
I honestly do not see how Vince can stay another year and risk injury or a bad season after this past season and last night.

Signed,

Matt Leinart, Roy Williams, and Cedric Benson

HoustonFrog · Jan 6, 2006

HJam72 said:
If he is that stupid, it's because this organization has allowed his brains to be beaten in. I also think that, while the QB may need to be the smartest player, it is not necessary to be a PH.D.

I'm not trying to be rude but before Fresno St. that guy had to go to JUCO because of academics, etc. I'm not saying you have to be the smartest cookie but I think many of ther top QBs are alot smarter than you think. Manning, Palmer, Brady, Hassleback, and in the past Young, Montana, Aikman and others all made good game time decisions. Carr seems to have not learned a thing in 4 years. Coaching can do some work but things like looking off receivers and getting rid of the ball should be inate after a year, maybe 2. He doesn't watch film or put in the extra work.

Marcus · Jan 6, 2006

bigcarlos said:
maybe Gary will not have a choice

Then he'll politely tell Mr. McNair that he wasted all that jet fuel for nothing.

HJam72 · Jan 6, 2006

Sorry, double post. Check the next one.

HJam72 · Jan 6, 2006

Is it possible that he's looking down a receiver because he knows by coverage that there's no real point in even looking at the others? I know, look at them to at least draw attention or whatever, but I'm saying that nobody's open and maybe he knows by the play called and the way that the D is covering that only the #1 read has a chance to get open. So, he watches and waits and hopes that the guy finally does, even though he should have several seconds ago. I just don't think this team has given him much of a chance in terms of protection and getting a REAL #2 receiver ON THE FIELD. Mathis might be it, but they insisted on sticking Bradford out there. He also has Bruener out there all the time. He's never open and probably doesn't go out much in the first place.

It seems to me that when we play teams who can't get a more than adequate pass rush against us, Carr usually shows huge improvement.

Some people like school. Some don't. It very rarely has anything to do with how smart they are.

HoustonFrog · Jan 6, 2006

HJam72 said:
Some people like school. Some don't. It very rarely has anything to do with how smart they are.

You are right and maybe it isn't fair to paint him with that broad a brush. Just IMHO I think it may fit. After the new coach gets here and things change, I may be wrong.

Kaiser Toro · Jan 6, 2006

The passing game has been awful in the four years for many reasons. DC is part of the problem with his inability to read and audible correctly before the snap. Does this make him an *****? No, but it is a liability. This is not regulated to DC as many talented players were able to fall back on their talents and coast, that is until they made the jump to the NFL where faster, bigger and well paid defensive staffs were waiting.

I am not sure this can be fixed, but an upgrade in O line, a new HC/OC and having DC work on his footwork with the secondary could help overcome this deficiency.

SheTexan · Jan 6, 2006

LBC_Justin said:
Either way we better beef up our O-line situation with some of those other picks.

Either way has it's risks.

Smartest comment I have read all morning!!

HoustonFrog · Jan 6, 2006

SheTexan said:
Smartest comment I have read all morning!!

Since we have NO playmakers we need to take one of the three and then go with it. The other 3 of the top 66 need to be loaded with O-lineman. It is a deep draft for the position.

Honoring Earl 34 · Jan 6, 2006

I don't know if Carr's dumb but I bet he was'nt good at playing around the world in flash cards.

Jack Bauer · Jan 6, 2006

HoustonFrog said:
I think David would fit very nicely into the West Coast offense run by Denver, he is Jake Plummer with a better arm and a brain (although this is somewhat questionable).

Very nice post except I think Carr has rocks for brains and that is his downfall.

He scored a 24 on his Wonderlic test, which is about average for a QB. Carson Palmer scored a 26, Vinny Testaverde scored an 18, Troy Aikman a 29. Brian Griese and Eli Manning both scored a 39.

In the interesting department Drew Henson scored a 42 and Jeff George scored a 10!

Kaiser Toro · Jan 6, 2006

Zephyr said:
He scored a 24 on his Wonderlic test, which is about average for a QB. Carson Palmer scored a 26, Vinny Testaverde scored an 18, Troy Aikman a 29. Brian Griese and Eli Manning both scored a 39.

In the interesting department Drew Henson scored a 42 and Jeff George scored a 10!

I have always found testing before the draft to be interesting. I would like to see this test to be done every other year in order to find out if the player has the propensity for continued learning.

bigTEXan8 · Jan 6, 2006

I really hope Kubiak is hired because then we don't have to draft VY. I really don't think he's going to be any good, but that's just me.

Coach C. · Jan 6, 2006

BigTex i would not go that far, but i want Kubiak also. I think even with Kubiak's faults he will be a welcome addition to this team and get the most out of the core players.

Jack Bauer · Jan 6, 2006

Marcus said:
Signed,

Matt Leinart

If I didn't know the real reason Leinart came back, I would say he made a serious mistake. His elbow was shot last year and this is the reason he came back for his senior season. He would have left, no doubt, if his elbow was healthy.

bdiddy · Jan 6, 2006

Zephyr said:
He scored a 24 on his Wonderlic test, which is about average for a QB. Carson Palmer scored a 26, Vinny Testaverde scored an 18, Troy Aikman a 29. Brian Griese and Eli Manning both scored a 39.

In the interesting department Drew Henson scored a 42 and Jeff George scored a 10!

This is a little bit scary if 24 is average. I do not know anything about the Wonderlic test, but here is a way to compare - Carson Palmer scored approximately a 900 on the SAT. Why the hell do I know this? Because I am a big ND fan and he was not admitted to the university for failing to score above 900. The average SAT score is around 1000. Thus, Carr would be considered below average intelligence but not overtly dumb.

Jeff George on the other hand must have not taken the test seriously or is borderline mentally retarded (which he is not having heard him speak).

run-david-run · Jan 6, 2006

HoustonFrog said:
I think David would fit very nicely into the West Coast offense run by Denver, he is Jake Plummer with a better arm and a brain (although this is somewhat questionable).

Very nice post except I think Carr has rocks for brains and that is his downfall.

I think the INT is what he was reffering to... Plummer made some decisons that would make you say "wtf???". Carr is very good at not throwing interceptions. even this season he has thrown more TD's then INT's...

run-david-run · Jan 6, 2006

Marcus said:
Signed,

Matt Leinart, Roy Williams, and Cedric Benson

how did any of those guys have bad seasons? roy williams wasnt great... but both he and cedric were top 7 picks. Leinart should have left, now he has lost the title and will prob. go to NO, but he put up better numbers then his Heisman year (which should have gone to Peterson)...

HoustonFrog · Jan 6, 2006

Zephyr said:
He scored a 24 on his Wonderlic test, which is about average for a QB. Carson Palmer scored a 26, Vinny Testaverde scored an 18, Troy Aikman a 29. Brian Griese and Eli Manning both scored a 39.

In the interesting department Drew Henson scored a 42 and Jeff George scored a 10!

Well he had trouble getting into college without help and he makes the same dumb moves on the field so that is just my impression. I think the Wonderlic is a joke. It asks the most random questions. I took it and with the help as carrying numbers and having to think missed 2.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html

stevo3883 · Jan 6, 2006

bdiddy said:
This is a little bit scary if 24 is average. I do not know anything about the Wonderlic test, but here is a way to compare - Carson Palmer scored approximately a 900 on the SAT. Why the hell do I know this? Because I am a big ND fan and he was not admitted to the university for failing to score above 900. The average SAT score is around 1000. Thus, Carr would be considered below average intelligence but not overtly dumb.

Jeff George on the other hand must have not taken the test seriously or is borderline mentally retarded (which he is not having heard him speak).

our own phillip buchanon got around a 7 i believe.

what a fantastic pickup

Kaiser Toro · Jan 6, 2006

stevo3883 said:
our own phillip buchanon got around a 7 i believe.

what a fantastic pickup

But he only counts as 700k against the cap.

Coach C. · Jan 6, 2006

Kaiser P-burnt is perfect right now, low cap figure good athlete, bad player. If he can find his way then we have trade value if not cost us next to nothing next year for a talented nickel back.

ATX · Jan 6, 2006

That Wonderlic IQ test is one of the easiest tests i've ever seen. I can't believe how dumb some football players are.

here's a few examples of it.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html

Look at the row of numbers below. What number should come next?
8 4 2 1 ½ ¼ ?

The ninth month of the year is
1. October, 2. January, 3. June, 4. September, 5 May.

SnakeOilTanker · Jan 6, 2006

Andre Johnson got a 12

Miami players always score the lowest it seems

As a Texas fan, and a big fan of GHA HS Football I'd love to have Vince, however all the things people have said are fairly true, and make me nervous.

BTW Ben Rothlisbereger worked out of the shotgun in college and worked out just fine.

Also I might be wrong but I think David went to a Juco not because of grades, but for a chance to play. He was a late bloomer.

travfrancis · Jan 6, 2006

i took the wonderlic test, how do i grade it to come out with a number? or is this not a full test?

ATX · Jan 6, 2006

Wonderlic Test Results:

Brian Griese - 39
Akili Smith - 37
Tom Brady - 33
Steve Young - 33
John Elway - 30
Brett Favre - 22
Dan Marino - 16
Jeff George - 10

ATX · Jan 6, 2006

travfrancis said:
i took the wonderlic test, how do i grade it to come out with a number? or is this not a full test?

It's only a sample, but basically the real one is 50 questions. So a 25 is answering half of them correctly.

Coach C. · Jan 6, 2006

50 questions in a matter of minutes, and a third of the questions are subjective. Like what kind of animal would you be. Dont read to much into it, but if you do well on it you are a smart person. Ryan Fitzpatrick did very well on the wonderlic test.

Jack Bauer · Jan 6, 2006

atxcoolguy said:
That Wonderlic IQ test is one of the easiest tests i've ever seen. I can't believe how dumb some football players are.

here's a few examples of it.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html

The test gets a little harder the further you go. You also only have 12 minutes to finish the 50 questions. So it is also a matter of how quickly you can get to the answers.

Jack Bauer · Jan 6, 2006

Coach C. said:
50 questions in a matter of minutes, and a third of the questions are subjective. Like what kind of animal would you be. Dont read to much into it, but if you do well on it you are a smart person. Ryan Fitzpatrick did very well on the wonderlic test.

None of the questions on the Wonderlic test I took were subjective. Does the NFL give a different version?

Kubiak = NO Vince Young

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