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Mike Vick "I revolutionized game"

chicagotexan2 said:
Cunningham was the first name to come to mind except Randall actually evolved his game later in his career to become a very good passer which is something Vick has never been. No Vick you were just a flavor of the month ten years ago.
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Ehh, knowing you could put the ball anywhere in the vicinity of a young Randy Moss and a prime Cris Carter and they would catch it might've had more to do with that than Cunningham evolving as a passer. Cunningham was already pretty good as a passer anyway.

I'll concede Cunningham really revolutionized the game, but Vick re-revolutionized it if that makes sense. Dude was the 1st qb on the pro level that I can remember where coaches called plays for him to run on a regular basis. The wildcat / zone read qb before it became a regular sub-package in the playbooks of coaches who had athletic dual threat qbs. Cunningham more or less scrambled when the play wasn't there most of the time.
 
Vick was the best runner to ever be designated a QB, but there was really nothing unique about what he did. His team called more designed QB runs, because he wasn't a very good passer.

When I think of something that revolutionized the game, I think of the forward pass, playaction, the draw, the spread, the west coast, 3-4, etc.

Those changed the way the game is played. A QB who runs twice as much because he's half as good at passing is just doing more of something that was already there.
 
Goatcheese said:
Vick was the best runner to ever be designated a QB, but there was really nothing unique about what he did. His team called more designed QB runs, because he wasn't a very good passer.

When I think of something that revolutionized the game, I think of the forward pass, playaction, the draw, the spread, the west coast, 3-4, etc.

Those changed the way the game is played. A QB who runs twice as much because he's half as good at passing is just doing more of something that was already there.
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As a qb with that huge of a deficiency though, he was still able to have success doing just that though. 1st qb in like 20 years to go into GB and win...1st qb to rush for a 1000 yds in like 20-30 years. And as I said earlier, he's a huge reason why coaches these days are more willing to consider many of these dual threat qbs as long term starters...or at the very least create sub packages to utilize the skills these guys possess. He reintroduced the advantages of having an athlete of that skill back there.
 
Alonzo Highsmith @AlonzoHighsmith
I would say the greatest revolution to the game of pro football is a guy that stand in the pocket and pick you apart no doubt.

Running QB's are like dogs chasing cars because they eventually get ran over.
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Playoffs said:
Alonzo Highsmith @AlonzoHighsmith
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Exactly.

No one looks at Michael Vick and thinks, 'I have to get me one of those'.

People aren't out hunting for the next Michael Vick....doing whatever they can to mimick this "revolutionary" player. Ya right.
 
Mr teX said:
Ehh, knowing you could put the ball anywhere in the vicinity of a young Randy Moss and a prime Cris Carter and they would catch it might've had more to do with that than Cunningham evolving as a passer. Cunningham was already pretty good as a passer anyway.
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Randall Cunningham passed for a ton of yards on the Eagles while he was there. He didn't have great receivers either. He threw for over $3,000 yards 4 times in a 6 year span where he had injury plagued seasons around the others. He ran for 942 yards in one season in 1990. Those were very good passing yards for that era when in comparison to other top caliber QB's. Randall was a very good passer. Lights years better than Vick who was regarded as easily one of the worst passers in the league every year he played in the NFL other than that one year in Philly.

Mr teX said:
As a qb with that huge of a deficiency though, he was still able to have success doing just that though. 1st qb in like 20 years to go into GB and win...1st qb to rush for a 1000 yds in like 20-30 years. And as I said earlier, he's a huge reason why coaches these days are more willing to consider many of these dual threat qbs as long term starters...or at the very least create sub packages to utilize the skills these guys possess. He reintroduced the advantages of having an athlete of that skill back there.
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Great way to rewrite history, but you are dreaming if you think that Vick did anything to make coaches consider dual threat QB's. He did the exact opposite and showed coaches that going after a "single threat" QB which is what he is, will not be the way to go. That is what he proved. Coaches figured Vick out right around his 3rd year of playing full time where he wasn't plagued with an injury season. He became easily stoppable for teams because he couldn't dissect the field and hit the open man. He keyed onto one receiver at all times and was horribly inaccurate. He himself, even admitted to this later on his career that he didn't study film or work near as hard at studying defenses as he could have when he matured after prison. He only threw for 4,000 yards once in his career and threw in the very low 3,000 range once or twice in ATL. Vick has never been a dual threat QB in the idea of how it is expressed. He has always been a singular threat QB.

If anyone is revolutionizing how QB's are being able to be used it is Kaepernick and WIlson right now. And even Aaron Rodgers and Luck to some degree, because they both can move pretty well. Newton is improving as a passer and decision maker as well. Vick never could stay healthy and never improved much as a passer. He didn't revolutionize anything other than possibly dog fighting.
 
I wouldn't say he is wrong, but I wouldn't say he is right either. He did some stuff that noone ever did before him. And he showed the world, that it is not enough for a QB to have fast feet and a strong arm, you also need to have the accuracy.

Revolutionize the game? Maybe guys like RGIII or Kaepernick wouldn't have become QBs or wouldn't have been confident enough (and have their coaches blessing) to run the way they do. So maybe he did open the door a little bit. But so far no QB has proven, that being a great runner alone is enough. Russell Wilsons biggest running isn't his biggest strength, probably not even his second biggest. He has a great arm and a unique football IQ. And he runs more to get out of trouble than to just run.
 
And Steve young before Vick had an overall superior combination of both passing and running ability. Vick was an exciting QB but not a player that revolutionized the position. But by Vicks own admission he didn't put in the work required to become an elite passer. That alone tells you that he didn't revolutionize the position by combing elite running ability to go along with the ability to advance the ball with the passing game.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
And Steve young before Vick had an overall superior combination of both passing and running ability. Vick was an exciting QB but not a player that revolutionized the position. But by Vicks own admission he didn't put in the work required to become an elite passer. That alone tells you that he didn't revolutionize the position by combing elite running ability to go along with the ability to advance the ball with the passing game.
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I meant to mention Young earlier as well. A lot of people really don't understand how good of a passer that Cunningham was early on though. Kordell Stewart had one or two really good seasons as well. One of those years he was an MVP candidate and he passed just fine that season along with making plays on his feet. They were just a score or two away from making it to the SB that year losing to the Patriots. Vick just proved what most GM's and HC's already knew which was that a running QB that couldn't pass well would never achieve long term success in the NFL. Once teams look at guys on film, they always figure out ways to stop what they like to do. It then becomes the responsibility of the QB to be able to adapt to how teams play them and to become versatile enough to do different things which is something Vick simply cannot do on a consistent basis. He is probably the worst QB I've ever seen as far as fumbling the football goes.
 
So that's basically where we are now with Michael Vick. We're at the point where he's got to try and claim some kind of legacy despite never really living up to the hype and being of such low character that he did almost singlehandedly revolutionize the way teams look at character before throwing piles of cash at college athletes. Now they look a little harder for the turds thanks to guys like Mike (which is smart) so I guess that's something.

The sooner he's retired the better.
 
Texecutioner said:
Randall Cunningham passed for a ton of yards on the Eagles while he was there. He didn't have great receivers either. He threw for over $3,000 yards 4 times in a 6 year span where he had injury plagued seasons around the others. He ran for 942 yards in one season in 1990. Those were very good passing yards for that era when in comparison to other top caliber QB's. Randall was a very good passer. Lights years better than Vick who was regarded as easily one of the worst passers in the league every year he played in the NFL other than that one year in Philly.



Great way to rewrite history, but you are dreaming if you think that Vick did anything to make coaches consider dual threat QB's. He did the exact opposite and showed coaches that going after a "single threat" QB which is what he is, will not be the way to go. That is what he proved. Coaches figured Vick out right around his 3rd year of playing full time where he wasn't plagued with an injury season. He became easily stoppable for teams because he couldn't dissect the field and hit the open man. He keyed onto one receiver at all times and was horribly inaccurate. He himself, even admitted to this later on his career that he didn't study film or work near as hard at studying defenses as he could have when he matured after prison. He only threw for 4,000 yards once in his career and threw in the very low 3,000 range once or twice in ATL. Vick has never been a dual threat QB in the idea of how it is expressed. He has always been a singular threat QB.

.

If anyone is revolutionizing how QB's are being able to be used it is Kaepernick and WIlson right now. And even Aaron Rodgers and Luck to some degree, because they both can move pretty well. Newton is improving as a passer and decision maker as well. Vick never could stay healthy and never improved much as a passer. He didn't revolutionize anything other than possibly dog fighting.
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This isn't Tim Tebow were talking about here; someone who was given very good coaching early on & still couldn't hack it. Vick wasn't a very good passer, but that's more on Mora & Reeves...they mishandled him and the coaching/offense they put around him wasn't conducive to fostering learning how to pass in the NFL. Vick didn't exactly put forth a whole lot of effort, but that's when coaching steps in & lets him know "you haven't arrived yet buddy" and sits his ass down. If he'd had better coaching & was sat down early in his career to refine his skills as a passer

like Steve Young was by Walsh...
Like Aaron Rodgers was by McCarthy
like Reid did him later in Philly

he's probably a better passer and player than he wound up being.


Aside from that, defenses still had to & did respect his ability to throw the ball. & In the sense of someone under center who could threaten every blade of grass with his arm ability and someone that was literally feared if they took off running, yes he was definitely considered a dual threat qb in every sense of the word. Just b/c the term & the athletes have been refined and controlled a little better over the last couple of years doesn't mean it didn't apply to him at the time. Imagine if Walsh hadn't picked up Young and sat his ass on the bench for a few years to refine his passing skills. he probably would've kept doing the same things that got him ran out of TB.

If anything, Vick's career serves as a cautionary tale of how not to build around a guy of his talents. It's also no mystery either Mora hasn't been able to duplicate anything close to the success he had with him in ATL. Yet, Andy Reid could with a much less exceptional athlete & a better team around him. If he'd had that type of coaching early on is career, he's probably viewed a little differently.

If it weren't for Vick, teams would still be trying to shoehorn guys into their classic dropback offenses allowing no room for those guys to do what they're doing now with these zone read subpackages that get them on the field and allow them to have success & gain confidence earlier. Basically, there is no VY top 5 pick...There is no Newton #1 overall...definitely no Kaep. Wilson's a different animal...he's always been a dropback guy.

I'm not saying what i'm saying b/c i think he was a great qb..i'm saying it b/c i recognize how he he did change the game ...in how the qb position is viewed..in how smart coaches approach developing young qbs like him now.....in how defenses gameplan for qb's that are like him now...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Exactly.

No one looks at Michael Vick and thinks, 'I have to get me one of those'.

People aren't out hunting for the next Michael Vick....doing whatever they can to mimick this "revolutionary" player. Ya right.
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never underestimate the NFL's hunger for athletic guys

Lol at you thinking that teams wouldn't have tried to mimick if a qb of Vick's athletic caliber had come along in the 2-3 years after he was drafted.
 
Mr teX said:
never underestimate the NFL's hunger for athletic guys

Lol at you thinking that teams wouldn't have tried to mimick if a qb of Vick's athletic caliber had come along in the 2-3 years after he was drafted.
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Do you know what "revolutionize" means?

You can't if you are giving a 2-3 year time period as the point in which you think some teams wanted a Vick type qb.

Let's take a break from reality and assume that's true. That's not a revolution. That's a fad. That's a flavor of the moment.

What's funny is you thinking Vick revolutionized the game of football. That's very silly.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Do you know what "revolutionize" means?

You can't if you are giving a 2-3 year time period as the point in which you think some teams wanted a Vick type qb.

Let's take a break from reality and assume that's true. That's not a revolution. That's a fad. That's a flavor of the moment.

What's funny is you thinking Vick revolutionized the game of football. That's very silly.
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Maybe it's you who doesn't know what the word means....The word doesn't just conform to your narrow definition of it..

Revolutionize...

transform, alter dramatically, shake up, turn upside down, restructure, reorganize, transmute, metamorphose;


revolutionize

break with the past, metamorphose, modernize, reform, revamp, transform

& there's no doubt Vick did some of that to the game.
 
Mr teX said:
Maybe it's you who doesn't know what the word means....The word doesn't just conform to your narrow definition of it..

Revolutionize...

transform, alter dramatically, shake up, turn upside down, restructure, reorganize, transmute, metamorphose;


revolutionize

break with the past, metamorphose, modernize, reform, revamp, transform

& there's no doubt Vick did some of that to the game.
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:ok:

Vick did none of those things.

Shake up? Turn on it's head?

Is that why every single team in the league would prefer a Brady, brees, Rodgers, manning type player over a Vick type player.

Ladies and gentlemen...the guy that revolutionized the nfl. He lost his job to nick foles last year and is now on the meh jets competing with geno smith. Michael Vick. An nfl revolutionary. Every team seeks a qb just like Vick because of how he revolutionized the position.

Please. Dude will barely be remembered except as the guy with the tremendous athletic ability that never capitalized.
 
Mr teX said:
Maybe it's you who doesn't know what the word means....The word doesn't just conform to your narrow definition of it..

Revolutionize...

transform, alter dramatically, shake up, turn upside down, restructure, reorganize, transmute, metamorphose;


revolutionize

break with the past, metamorphose, modernize, reform, revamp, transform

& there's no doubt Vick did some of that to the game.
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Ok I'll give you that perhaps Vick did revolutionize the game to a certain degree in the sense of the word as you just defined it. When I think of revolutionizing something I also think 'improving'. Vick didn't do that. There are several players who preceded Vick that could be considered more of a revolutionary type than Vick. I'll add Steve McNair to that list. The guy ran and threw the ball in college like a monster and continued having success with that game in the NFL. Vick is probably the fastest guy to ever play QB in the NFL but to say he revolutionized the game is fantasy.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
Cunningham was the first name to come to mind except Randall actually evolved his game later in his career to become a very good passer which is something Vick has never been. No Vick you were just a flavor of the month ten years ago.
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I agree that he revolutionized the game. Never again will an athlete of any significance decide to fight animals like dogs or chickens. It is now unthinkable where before it just wasn't thought about.
 
At the end of the day, it is the job of the QB to PASS the ball. It is his job to get the ball into the hands of his playmakers, and do so in a calculated, intelligent, and responsible manner. Running all over the field is usually counter to that job. It's good to be able to do it, but give me a guy that wants to pass the ball over a guy that wants to run the ball any day. Watch Russell Wilson play. He's a young guy with some holes still in his game, but you can tell he already has it together mentally. He'll run and convert first downs when he has to, but he'd rather get the ball to his guys out in the field and let them do more with it.

Vick had basically one good year as a quarterback and a few good years as a runner that lined up in the QB position.
 
Cha...Mike. You're a decent QB, but you're just doing a Randal Cunningham impression.Sorry
Dog-boy, but Randal has gone on RECORD saying that the only reason HE ran so much is that his O-line wasn't so great and his receivers frequently couldn't get open.
 
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If he would've put more time and effort into studying the game earlier in his career he might've been one of the best. But, like others have mentioned, there was Young, Cunningham, etc. that had already been there and done what Vick was able to do.
 
People talking about Mike Vike as a passer seem to be forgetting he's got one of the biggest cannons the NFL has ever seen. Yeah, he sucks at accuracy but the guy could just flick the ball out 60 yards and it didn't even look hard to do.

He would've been ATL's QB for a lot longer if he had not gone to prison, but, that of course, happened.
 
Fran Tarkenton was scrambling around before Randall or Steve or Vick...
Revolutionized...? what a crock
:toropalm:
 
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