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Jim Kelly announces that he has cancer
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
Poor guy, wouldn't wish that on anybody
Me too. Loved watching him play. Loved it when he was inducted to the HOF.
Me too. Loved watching him play. Loved it when he was inducted to the HOF.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The overall 5-year survival rate for this particular cancer is reported as ~60-70%; the recurrence rate is 33%. Approximately 50% of these cancers are not picked up prior to advanced stages....so that apparently is a good thing in Kelly's case. If they have found no formal metastasis (spread to other parts of the body), the main question for accurate prognosis will come if following the surgery, the removed segment shows margins that are free of tumor. Patients found to have any none-free resection margins tend to die within 5 years, most within the 1st year. Furthermore, if there is involvement is of the upper jaw sinus (maxillary [cheek] sinus), the prognosis tends to fall to less than 1/2 in all categories. Hopefully, the cancer does not involve the sinus, nor does it lend itself to findings upon final pathology report of non-free margins (left behind cancer) non-resectable cancer.
As a reconstructive surgeon, I have performed my share of maxillary cancer reconstructions. As cure is the goal, radical excision is the rule, with reconstruction typically far from a non-formidable undertaking for both the surgeon and the patient. My prayers go out to Kelly that there are no surprises for the man who I had the privilege of knowing back in the day of the Gamblers.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
And mine, Doc .... and mine. Thanks.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The most common causative agents of oral cancers are found in tobacco and alcohol. Anyone remember Nick Buoniconti. He got his law degree during his years with the Patriots and became a practicing attorney for a short while. What most of you don't know is that he served as president of the US Tobacco Company during the late 1970s and early 1980s and was a leading critic of studies which showed that smokeless tobacco caused cancer of the mouth as well as other types of cancer. Now, there is no doubt of the cause and effect. However, during those years, he spoke widely to his football brethren debunking this cause and effect obvious relationship, and encouraged them to the positives of engaging in snuff..........to the point that free sample were distributed by him gratuitously to teams and players of the era. Thank you, Nick.
BTW, 40% of head and neck cancers have been found to be associated with Human Papilloma Virus (HPV), the same virus that has been associated with female cervix cancer. In fact, coincidentally, 2 weeks ago, there was a landmark Australian study that identified Head and Neck cancers, including esophageal cancer as an "epidemic" problem specifically in white males who have engaged in oral sex with multiple partners.
BTW, 40% of head and neck cancers have been found to be associated with Human Papilloma Virus (HPV), the same virus that has been associated with female cervix cancer. In fact, coincidentally, 2 weeks ago, there was a landmark Australian study that identified Head and Neck cancers, including esophageal cancer as an "epidemic" problem specifically in white males who have engaged in oral sex with multiple partners.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
So there is some truth to this ... ?
Oral sex and throat cancer: Michael Douglas HPV report spotlights "epidemic"
That's frightening. Can you be tested for the virus?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
HPV is not carried in the blood or fluids, making it impossible to really "screen" for. HPV is usually diagnosed after lesions are caused. An extremely expensive HPV DNA testing can only be performed for identification after suspected abnormal tissue sample is submitted as in the case of PAP smear. It is therefore seldom used even after abnormal tissue has already been identified. There is an HPV test available which can test for the presence of a number of strains of HPV. This is not a test for cancer. HPV tests are available in Australia but are only subsidised by the government in a limited number of cases. Because most HPV infections usually resolve naturally, and there is no cure, there is little reason to have an HPV test.
Virtually all of us will have had HPV by the age of 30. Approximately 90-95% of us will have cleared it through our own immune system within 2 years. It is the 5-10% that will act as a "Typhoid Mary" and spread the joy. To date, there is no "cure" for HPV. And now, it is not entirely agreed upon whether the virus is completely eliminated or reduced to undetectable levels in the 90-95% group, and it is difficult to know when it is contagious.........and, therefore you can never be sure that you are no longer at risk. Lastly, condoms aren't truly protected because the genitalia are not entirely covered......and oral male to genital female is obviously totally unprotected.
That is why there is a push to vaccinate young girls.........and now even discussion for the same in young boys. To add a little more scare to the picture, 30 percent of cancers originate from HPV strains not covered by the vaccine. Who knows, if we don't choose this approach (or even if we do), it may force us into going back to the dark ages when no man wanted a lady that wasn't a virgin !
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Cjeremy635
Overtraining
Hmmm...maybe those BDSM freaks in full on body or facial latex are on to something. Technically it's like a full body condom. If that becomes mainstream, then I'll just hang an "out of order" tag on my tongue. I'm way too claustrophobic for a body condom. Lol.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I found this more detailed bit of information, that was not revealed in most other reports. This was a cancer that involved the gingiva (gums) and the maxillary sinus. It evidently was not recognized for over 3 months. I am now not surprised that now the surgeons carefully word their prognosis as "We expect a successful OUTCOME" or "We expect a successful RECOVERY" or "The prognosis for RECOVERY is very good" instead of "We expect or are hopeful of a CURE." The reason is very easily explained by the fact that in cases as described for Kelly, even after not initially detecting spread to the neck lymph nodes, ~80% will have developed such now "detectable" spread within 18 months. This is a factor which would significantly worsen the prognosis. I would be very surprised if post operative chemotherapy and/or possible radical neck dissection is not being contemplated. Some would even consider adjunct radiation therapy.
As Thunderkyss aptly put it, I "wouldn't wish that on anybody."
EDIT ADDITION: The story gets even worse with the information from this other source. Evidently, delayed diagnosis was not 3 months, but ~6 months, with the initial thinking that it was simply an infection.
link
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Unfortunately, Kelly's cancer has recurred.
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/jim-kellys-cancer-is-back-20140314
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/jim-kellys-cancer-is-back-20140314
Showtime100
Got JJ?
Damn. I met him once. At that bar on or near Richmond where all those NY Mets got in trouble (name anyone?). I walked away a bigger fan after the encounter than before I met him. He was a heck of a nice guy.
My thoughts and prayers go out to Jim and the Kelly family.
My thoughts and prayers go out to Jim and the Kelly family.
Heath Shuler
SPEED KILLS
Cooter's, I think.
I've always liked him. He spoke at our high school football banquet; nice guy.
Showtime100
Got JJ?
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I wish him nothing but luck in beating this.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Based on the information that I was able to determine at the original time of posting (see previous posts), along with my surgical experience with this type of cancer, without any unknown extenuating circumstances, 6 months may be a generous estimate of survival following recurrence.
With that said, my prayers go out to Jim and his family for an exceptional outcome.
Heath Shuler
SPEED KILLS
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
During the Gamblers' era, Kelly's girlfriend was my receptionist. Met him on several occasions. Unbelievably good person........down to earth......not caught up in the fame.........or himself.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Yea I have heard many say that, and you can hear it when he did interviews. Is there are discussion as what caused the cancer? Was he a tobacco user after the NFL, or just runs in the family. Upper Jaw cancer seems like a rare thing, but then I do not really know. I hope he beats it!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Kelly was NOT a tobacco user and he was NOT a drinker. With a non-smoking and non-drinking history, the most likely source would be a history of oral sex somewhere in his past with someone infected with human papilloma virus [HPV] ala Michael Douglas (the latency period of this process......time of exposure to time of developing cancer usually runs ~30-40 years.......). To understand Kelly's cancer and its course, prognosis and relationship to HPV, you may want to review my previous posts (ranging from #1-#14) in this thread. Scarey...... but, just like HPV-to-female cervical cancer connection, today a very well-established pathologic HPV infection-to-cancer relationship.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Jim Kelly's Cancer Recurrence Is "Aggressive" And Will Require Surgeryhttp://deadspin.com/jim-kellys-cancer-recurrence-is-aggressive-and-will-1550923394
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Me too
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
With his dad.
Remembering that there was very significant time delay in the diagnosis and primary treatment of his cancer, combined with the fact the prognosis of this type of cancer was already far from satisfactory, and along with the fact that a more deforming but more thorough radical lymph node neck dissection surgery and/or other co-treatments (radiation/chemo) were not chosen to be performed at the same time, this recurrence is even less surprising. Unfortunately, this tells me what I had originally believed would be the case before "surgery" was surprisingly just recently announced as the treatment he would undergo for the recurrence. His recurrence/spread is now obviously beyond the reasonable scope of scalpel removal. The chemotherapy and radiation therapy must now be considered a desperation salvage approach in hopes of palliation and improved quality of life.
link
Remembering that there was very significant time delay in the diagnosis and primary treatment of his cancer, combined with the fact the prognosis of this type of cancer was already far from satisfactory, and along with the fact that a more deforming but more thorough radical lymph node neck dissection surgery and/or other co-treatments (radiation/chemo) were not chosen to be performed at the same time, this recurrence is even less surprising. Unfortunately, this tells me what I had originally believed would be the case before "surgery" was surprisingly just recently announced as the treatment he would undergo for the recurrence. His recurrence/spread is now obviously beyond the reasonable scope of scalpel removal. The chemotherapy and radiation therapy must now be considered a desperation salvage approach in hopes of palliation and improved quality of life.
With his dad.
link
Remembering that there was very significant time delay in the diagnosis and primary treatment of his cancer, combined with the fact the prognosis of this type of cancer was already far from satisfactory, and along with the fact that a more deforming but more thorough radical lymph node neck dissection surgery and/or other co-treatments (radiation/chemo) were not chosen to be performed at the same time, this recurrence is even less surprising. Unfortunately, this tells me what I had originally believed would be the case before "surgery" was surprisingly just recently announced as the treatment he would undergo for the recurrence. His recurrence/spread is now obviously beyond the reasonable scope of scalpel removal. The chemotherapy and radiation therapy must now be considered a desperation salvage approach in hopes of palliation and improved quality of life.
Very sad
Terrible news
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I understand how you and many others may feel. I actually share your feelings. It's much more difficult in discouraging situations like this when you have to relate such honest information directly to patients and their families.......although you must. Despite the fact that you want to hold out some hope, you can never become the carrier of misguided sunshine and rainbows.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Heh, I know. I'm just teasing you a little. Always appreciate the insight and candor.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Fever postpones Jim Kelly's cancer treatments until next week
When recurrence occurs in oral cancers which include bone, it is not unusual that necrotic (dead) tissue creates an infected draining wound. Since the tissue is not alive and thus by definition does not have blood supply to the area, natural antibodies cannot reach the infected tissue to fight the source of the infection........nor can antibiotics. So, the infection tends to spread throughout the body through surrounding blood supply that is still intact to the rest of the body...........causing fever. This systemic spread of bacteria must be controlled , as this overtly infected tissue if left unchecked will continue to deliver even more concentrated loads of bacteria to the rest of the body, very possibly leading to overwhelming infection, septic shock and death. Kelly doctors are trying to control the systemic effects of the bacteria now, in preparation of the anticipated chemotherapy and radiation therapy, because both of these therapies can be expected to severely depress the body's own natural immunologic protections which must be functioning effectively to even allow antibiotics to work effectively.........Not controlling the infection in addition to subsequently further severely compromising the immune system is a formula that would inevitably lead to overwhelming infection, septic shock and death.
You would normally want to surgically remove the infection source of nonviable bone and other tissues, but in this case, surgery would most likely further spread the infection and cancer when cut through, and very likely leading to a wound which would be unlikely to ever heal........making this a total non-option.
Not that he couldn't overcome these very difficult challenges, but Kelly's situation is not very promising.....much less so with this recent turn of events, since it delays his definitive cancer treatment for a cancer that would already afford a short-term survival.
When recurrence occurs in oral cancers which include bone, it is not unusual that necrotic (dead) tissue creates an infected draining wound. Since the tissue is not alive and thus by definition does not have blood supply to the area, natural antibodies cannot reach the infected tissue to fight the source of the infection........nor can antibiotics. So, the infection tends to spread throughout the body through surrounding blood supply that is still intact to the rest of the body...........causing fever. This systemic spread of bacteria must be controlled , as this overtly infected tissue if left unchecked will continue to deliver even more concentrated loads of bacteria to the rest of the body, very possibly leading to overwhelming infection, septic shock and death. Kelly doctors are trying to control the systemic effects of the bacteria now, in preparation of the anticipated chemotherapy and radiation therapy, because both of these therapies can be expected to severely depress the body's own natural immunologic protections which must be functioning effectively to even allow antibiotics to work effectively.........Not controlling the infection in addition to subsequently further severely compromising the immune system is a formula that would inevitably lead to overwhelming infection, septic shock and death.
You would normally want to surgically remove the infection source of nonviable bone and other tissues, but in this case, surgery would most likely further spread the infection and cancer when cut through, and very likely leading to a wound which would be unlikely to ever heal........making this a total non-option.
Not that he couldn't overcome these very difficult challenges, but Kelly's situation is not very promising.....much less so with this recent turn of events, since it delays his definitive cancer treatment for a cancer that would already afford a short-term survival.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Here is a very in-depth article about Kelly, his canceer plight, his family, his faith........sad, but very heart-warming.
Jim Kelly Tough
Jim Kelly Tough
Porky
Hall of Fame
I've been avoiding this thread like the plague. Sometimes you just don't want to see bad news. Jim Kelly was one of my hero's back in the day. Not only because of his exploits on the field - but even more for the role model he was off of it. This breaks my heart. Thoughts and prayers for Jim Kelly.
And if we can get real for a second and sorry in advance for the sex talk but this is important - Doc, you mentioned this has likely causation with oral sex with a female. I would venture to guess most of us have done that on multiple occasions. Not me of course, but I'm asking for a friend lol. What is the risk of getting this kind of cancer from performing oral sex on a female? Is it a very low thing or should "my friend" be worried.
And if we can get real for a second and sorry in advance for the sex talk but this is important - Doc, you mentioned this has likely causation with oral sex with a female. I would venture to guess most of us have done that on multiple occasions. Not me of course, but I'm asking for a friend lol. What is the risk of getting this kind of cancer from performing oral sex on a female? Is it a very low thing or should "my friend" be worried.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I've been avoiding this thread like the plague. Sometimes you just don't want to see bad news. Jim Kelly was one of my hero's back in the day. Not only because of his exploits on the field - but even more for the role model he was off of it. This breaks my heart. Thoughts and prayers for Jim Kelly.
And if we can get real for a second and sorry in advance for the sex talk but this is important - Doc, you mentioned this has likely causation with oral sex with a female. I would venture to guess most of us have done that on multiple occasions. Not me of course, but I'm asking for a friend lol. What is the risk of getting this kind of cancer from performing oral sex on a female? Is it a very low thing or should "my friend" be worried.
Scooter,
Rather than pulling a complicated medical literature resource, I tried to find an article that would be readable and comprehensible to your friend. This should answer his questions.
Can oral sex give you cancer?
Add to the article........newly discovered esophageal cancer link, which also makes sense since the swallowing tube is an extension of the oral cavity. People with the HPV virus had a threefold increased risk of developing esophageal cancer than those not infected, according to a study led by researchers at the University of New South Wales in Australia.
Keep in mind, the reason that HPV-associated oral and esophageal cancers have notoriously had extremely poor prognosis is that you can't see the HPV virus. So, without special HPV testing of the remaining "normal" appearing tissues, you may believe that you've removed the grossly visible cancer, leaving behind only surrounding normal tissues. When in fact these normal looking tissues harbor the HPV virus which continues to infect and transform normal tissue to cancerous tissue........essentially accounting for such stubbornly common and virulent recurrences of these cancers.
Hope these answer your friend's questions.
ubecool454
Veteran
Suzzane Somers beat Cancer and she didn't go the Chemotherapy route. I do believe there are many other alternative therapies that one should look into. I hate the word Chemotherapy.
ubecool454
Veteran
I liked him but Moon is still my man.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I am very happy for Somer's outcome. She has at least brought attention to the importance of lifestyle (eg., nutrition and excercise). But for those not familiar with all the intricacies of breast cancer, her claims of cure being mainly attributed to her avoidance of chemotherapy and substituting the use "holistic" approaches are very disingenuous and misleading. She was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2001. She had a Stage II cancer diagnosis.............in her specific case, the tumor was confined to the breast, the tumor was ~3cms, and there was NO LYMPH NODE OR DISTANT METASTASIS. She had a lumpectomy to remove the tumor, followed by the maximum allowed radiation therapy to the remainder of her breast. Several of her holistic approaches just simply make natural substitutes for formal treatment (such as bio-edentical hormones for the commercially available hormones). But they have the same implications in the way they act and their risks.
Nonetheless, it is important to understand that if a patient with Stage II breast cancer is treated ONLY with lumpectomy (also referred to as "breast conservation therapy" or BCT) with radiation therapy to that breast, the 10-year breast-cancer-specific survival rates are ~94% for these patients.
Here is a link to the most up-to-date and largest study of patients with breast cancers like Somers.......and their prognosis..........published in January of this year in the Journal of the American Medical Association (Surgery).
In summary, Somers did not require chemotherapy in order to effectively treat her cancer in the first place.
EDIT: I believe that it is important that people understand that Suzanne Somers reluctanctly admitted that she had a lumpectomy and radiation well after presenting the illusion that she had holistic treament or nutrional treatment to treat her cancer. As a surgeon who has at different phases of my career treated hundreds of breast cancer patients surgically for removal and for reconstruction, I feel that Somers has potentially harmed many breast cancer patients by directing them away from well-established, effective, proven treatments.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Got one from the old Gamblers days!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
My apologies to Porky.......
I inadvertently addressed my response (post #39) to your question with the wrong name, i.e., to "Scooter."
My bad!
I inadvertently addressed my response (post #39) to your question with the wrong name, i.e., to "Scooter."
My bad!
Porky
Hall of Fame
no worries Dr! I appreciate you taking the time to address my concerns.
I've heard of apricot kernels being effective against cancer, and anything that makes the body more alkaline.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The latter is true.....cancer loves an inflammatory acid environment.
As far as the apricot kernels, beads and gords would be as effective. You may remember back in the 60s and early 70s, patients were going to Laitrile clinics in Mexico by the masses to fight every cancer under the sun. Laitrile was the name given to the apricot kernel treatment. Very few survived their cancers or their treatments. Very few people are unaffected by cyanide, which not only kills cancer cells, but also does a good job of killing normal cells. The main active ingredient in Laitrile, Cyanide, accounts for its main mechanism of active. It was given the disingenuous label of "vitamin B17" to sound completely benign.....you aren't afraid of vitamins, are you????
Here is a recent piece from the National Cancer Institute Feb 2014:
Bottom line, if you don't take in "enough," the cancer doesn't die............if you do take in "enough," YOU DIE!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It appears that Kelly's infection has been contained. Therefore, his chemo/radiation treatment has been able to be started. Today, he has completed his first of three rounds of chemo.......over the next 6 weeks, he will complete the other two (three weeks apart) and undergo daily radiation treatments. After that, they will re-evaluated as to the need for surgery, if the other treatments have not been felt to control the cancer. I don't know that I would even consider surgery in an area that has already been scarified by previous surgery.....and whose blood supply has been further extremely compromised by radiation treatments............wound healing in such a case would be high risk for complications.........without likely changing the ultimate prognosis. Here's to seeing the miracle we're all praying for.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Some additional facts I've dug up on Kelly's cancer. It appears that the cancer recurrence has been found to be attached to the carotid artery, and is traveling up the Trigeminal nerve. Both of these reflecting that the original surgery left behind cancer. As I've said before, it surprised me that right after the initial surgery, chemo and radiation as an adjunctive therapy were not performed to "clean up" any cancer that may have been left behind (rather than standing on the merits of surgery only (unrealistic for such an empirically aggressive cancer) waiting for an inevitable recurrence (which typically is even more aggressive) . The former structure (carotid artery) is the major blood supply to the face and one side of the brain......cancer invasion of major blood vessels can spread the cancer throughout the body through the blood system. The latter (Trigeminal nerve) is a major cranial sensory nerve that supplies the face......and originates in the brain. Any cancer closely attached to a nerve can spread (metastasize) along the totality of the nerve, in this case, directly to the brain. Since it is a sensory nerve, invasion by cancer, usually creates unbelievable non-relenting and almost impossible to control pain.....at least as severe as Shingles pain. As part of the cancer treatment, it will be hopeful that this pain will be relieved. However, the effects on the pain aspect of this treatment is not expected to take effect immediately. Patients usually respond within 4 to 6 weeks post-treatment. However, some patients require as much as 3 to 8 months for the full response. Most patients remain on full doses of "pain" medication for at least 3 months after treatment.
My heart goes out to Kelly going through what can only be described as Hell.
My heart goes out to Kelly going through what can only be described as Hell.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
As I mentioned above, with "treatment" directed towards the metastatic cancer involvement of major nerves, pain does not have immediate relief, and meanwhile the patient must be given heavy doses of tradition pain medications to affect it at all.....a very terrible process for anyone to have to endure. His family will be his best medicine over the Easter holiday.