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Rick Smith the 16th best GM

aussie_texan said:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/46433/57/goal-line-stand

Patrick Daugherty from rotoworld ranks all 32 NFL GMs.
What do you think?

PS. im pretty sure i didnt see this posted, if so then please merge or delete
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2-14,

I've always said the Slick/Gary regime was an 8-8 team. So I can see 16th.

Cant win a SB with 8-8 so I would call Slick lower than 16th. However if you count the $$$$ he has made Boardroom BoBBy then he ranks much higher than 16th and isn't that what the NFL is really all about these days?
 
steelbtexan said:
Was that before the turn of the century?
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2008 NY Giants were 10-6 in the regular season before winning the Super Bowl.

2010 Green Bay Packers were 10-6 in the regular season before winning the Super Bowl.

2011 NY Giants were 9-7 in the regular season before winning the Super Bowl.

While not exactly 8-8, I think you get the point.

On top of that, the Giants - And Eli Manning especially - have been horrible outside of their SB winning seasons.

My God, Eli had a worse season last year than Matt Schaub if that is possible.
 
I have to take these types of classifications, especially those that have no hard fast measurables/calculations presented that substantiate the ranking, with a grain of salt.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I have to take these types of classifications, especially those that have no hard fast measurables/calculations presented that substantiate the ranking, with a grain of salt.
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I Actually agree with his take that Rick smith is JAGM, but yes there is no real objective number outside of wins/loses/playoffs that one can really use in any manner.
 
Well you are what your rankings say you are...

last I checked, 16 is half of 32, that would make Rick Smith...


MEDIOCRE! Which is fitting because a mediocre GM puts together mediocre teams....Does enough to keep his job, but not enough to make the Texans a true SB contender...
 
Smith was rated the 9th best GM for the Eagles: Bryan Braman. Connor Barwin, DeMeco Ryans, James Casey, Donnie Jones, Jeff Maehl and Roc Carmichael.

:kitten:
 
I went over his drafts and he deff picks more DUds then studs in the draft its not even close to 50/50 more like 70 bad and 30 good
 
My hope is that he is young and getting better. That doesn't justify getting him when we did, but things could work out.
 
Rick Smith, often referred to as the Texans BEST DB evaluator....the Legacy of Rick:

Fred Bennett, Brandon Harrison, Antuan MOlden, Dominique Barber, Glover Quin, Brice McCain, Troy Nolan, Kareem Jackson, Sherrick McManis, Brandon Harris, Rasad Carmichael, Shiloh Keo, James Fletcher, Glen Earl, Eugene Wilson, John Busin, Jacques Reeves, Aaron Glen, Karl Paymah, Jonathan Joseph, Daniel Manning, Torri Williams, Quinton Demps, Eddie PLeasant, Ed Reed
 
Texian said:
Rick Smith, often referred to as the Texans BEST DB evaluator....the Legacy of Rick:

Fred Bennett, Brandon Harrison, Antuan MOlden, Dominique Barber, Glover Quin, Brice McCain, Troy Nolan, Kareem Jackson, Sherrick McManis, Brandon Harris, Rasad Carmichael, Shiloh Keo, James Fletcher, Glen Earl, Eugene Wilson, John Busin, Jacques Reeves, Aaron Glen, Karl Paymah, Jonathan Joseph, Daniel Manning, Torri Williams, Quinton Demps, Eddie PLeasant, Ed Reed
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I stopped reading when I saw Aaron Glenn
 
Update

10. Rick Smith, Texans

Last Year’s Ranking: 13


Like Rick Spielman, Rick Smith has been around long enough to have plenty of blunders on his résumé. Also like Spielman, he’s done a lot more good than harm, bringing aboard J.J. Watt, DeAndre Hopkins and Bill O’Brien in just the past five years. Smith knows talent. The Texans have had only three losing seasons in 10 years on his watch. If Smith has a concern, it’s O’Brien’s increasing influence. Planting the Bill Belichick banner in Houston, O’Brien has fast become one of the NFL’s biggest coaching personalities. He’s stocked his staff with fellow Patriots expats, and rounded out his roster with Pats veterans like Vince Wilfork, Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett. Interestingly, it’s Mallett, the least impactful of O’Brien’s Patriots additions, who provided the biggest flashpoint between Smith and his coach. When Mallett missed the team flight in Week 7, O’Brien wanted to cut him immediately. Smith wanted to wait. It was O’Brien who got his way, perhaps previewing the result of a power struggle that’s beginning to appear inevitable. If Smith wants to maintain his influence in Houston, he may have to be ok with O’Brien continually diminishing it.
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So... they ranked him 16th after the 2013 season, 13th after the 2014 season, & 10th after the 2015 season. Why haven't McNair fired this clown just yet?
 
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According to them he's shown steady improvement year after year or maybe they are saying the quality of GMs has gone down in recent years.

Either way, they have no reason to inflate or understate Smith's performance. Theirs is an objective third party view with a much broader lense than we usually employ.
 
This columnist has no idea what he's talking about. Rick Smith at 10 is a joke. Jerry Jones not at the bottom is even more funnier, then reading what he said about the Bucs situation for 2016 shows that he doesn't really follow these teams too closely. This isn't a Bucs board so I won't elaborate there. But getting back to Rick Smith, what has he done to warrant being 10? I think it's a known fact that Wade Phillips had to convince him and Kubiak to draft JJ Watt. Also, a solid GM is made on what they do in the later rounds. Smith has been very week there.
 
Hookem Horns said:
This columnist has no idea what he's talking about. Rick Smith at 10 is a joke. Jerry Jones not at the bottom is even more funnier, then reading what he said about the Bucs situation for 2016 shows that he doesn't really follow these teams too closely. This isn't a Bucs board so I won't elaborate there. But getting back to Rick Smith, what has he done to warrant being 10? I think it's a known fact that Wade Phillips had to convince him and Kubiak to draft JJ Watt. Also, a solid GM is made on what they do in the later rounds. Smith has been very week there.
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He's actually been pretty good in the later rounds and with UDFA, he totally sucks in the mid rounds tho
 
aussie_texan said:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/46433/57/goal-line-stand

Patrick Daugherty from rotoworld ranks all 32 NFL GMs.
What do you think?
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This guy should drop sports journalism, and look into a career in comedy.
bonghit.gif
 
Hookem Horns said:
This columnist has no idea what he's talking about. Rick Smith at 10 is a joke. Jerry Jones not at the bottom is even more funnier, then reading what he said about the Bucs situation for 2016 shows that he doesn't really follow these teams too closely. This isn't a Bucs board so I won't elaborate there. But getting back to Rick Smith, what has he done to warrant being 10? I think it's a known fact that Wade Phillips had to convince him and Kubiak to draft JJ Watt. Also, a solid GM is made on what they do in the later rounds. Smith has been very week there.
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Not so much. Still may be the case, but I don't know that I would go so far as to characterize it as probable, much less indisputable.
PapaL said:
Houston Texans
In 2011, there was a debate in the building about whether Aldon Smith or J.J. Watt would be the right fit, but when the 11th pick came around, Smith was already gone, the Texans didn't trade up for him and instead took Watt. In the years since, Wade Phillips, who was then the Texans' defensive coordinator, credited Bobby Grier, now the Texans' senior personnel adviser, for advocating for Watt. He has already won three Defensive Player of the Year awards and is easily the best defensive player in franchise history -- perhaps the best player in franchise history. -- Tania Ganguli
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/page/32for32x160410/best-draft-move-every-nfl-team-2011

Wonder if that will end this once and for all? Probably not...
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thunderkyss said:
According to them he's shown steady improvement year after year or maybe they are saying the quality of GMs has gone down in recent years.

Either way, they have no reason to inflate or understate Smith's performance. Theirs is an objective third party view with a much broader lense than we usually employ.
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Steady improvement, LOL at this rate the Texans may actually win a SB by 2050. Hope I'm alive to see the culmination of Smith's steady improvement.

Lets see the Texans started ou at 2-14 (I know Rick wasn't here yet.) 2 yrs later they fell flat on their face at 6-10 after a glorious non losing 9-7 season missing the playoffs against a cupcake schedule. Then after being forced to hire Wade Phillips the team improves to making the playoffs, although they were never a true SB contender. Then another 2-14 followed by another couple of mediocre 9-7 seasons. Apparently the writer and I have different definitions of the term steady improvement.
 
steelbtexan said:
Apparently the writer and I have different definitions of the term steady improvement.
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Just a suggestion, but maybe you are having a hard time determining where the GM's job ends & the HC's begin.

& I'm not saying I agree with the writer. I'm just saying that's a third party opinion.
 
I could see it, In my honest opinion, he hasn't been great. However, he hasn't been terrible too. A good way to measure him would be against his peers. I've never been too down on Rick Smith to be quite honest. It can be difficult to want your car to perform like a STI when it is really a Corolla.
 
It's hard to judge really. We want our coaches to have input on player selection. The whole "If you want me to cook the stew, you should let me buy the groceries." Thing. Even though there isn't a 5 star restaurant in the world that does it that way... serve stew I mean.

But we basically have a GM that does what the HC wants. We see that in all the ex-Broncos Kubiak brought in & ex-Patriots O'b has brought in.

However, just like we build our big boards before our mock drafts & highlight all the players we'd like to get, it isn't always cut & dry. The Texans, not just Rick Smith, or Wade Phillips, or Bobby Grier.. rated Patrick Peterson over Jj Watt. They knew they would have to move up in the draft to get Peterson... but they (Rick Smith) misjudged how far up they'd have to go to get him.

& that has been a recurring theme in Rick Smith drafts. Misjudging where targeted players are going to go. Last year it was Melvin Gordon & Tyler Lockett.

2014, it looks like we may have missed on a couple of QBs Bridgewater, Garoppolo, & we settled on Savage. At least it looks that way.

That would be my only real criticism of Rick. He targets players in the draft, but fail to get them.

I also thought he was too timid in FA & lacked the necessary skills to close the deal, selling Houston as a prime destination. But he was aggressive in acquiring Osweiler & Allen, Miller, & Bergstrum landing them all on day 1. Miller even turned down money elsewhere & Brock publicly stated he believes Houston gives him a better chance to make a name for himself than the Super Bowl winning Broncos.

Whether that is true or not is besides the point. But it would have definitely been a selling point I'd have tried to convince him of.

I know he's been accused of some bad contracts. The ones used as evidence aren't what I would call bad. They were gambles that didn't work out. Had Schaub been able to put two seasons together before going from a top 10 QB to a bottom three... that would have been a good contract. If Cushing would have protected his legs instead of going all beserker that would have been a really good contract. If Kubiak didn't ride Foster so hard (because Schaub dropped off so fast) that would have been a good contract. When healthy, those were among the best players in the league. They're going to cost money (funny how these same people call McNair cheap).

Bad contracts would be like the ones Casserly was handing out. Paying players for years of service, not production. Those guys couldn't have earned those contracts in their wildest dreams. No wonder Dunta Robinson felt he should get paid like a pro bowler for "pro bowl like" seasons.

Another thing, they don't get to see the accumulation of their "mistakes" like we can see Rick's. Imagine if we'd have drafted Kyle Wilson, Aldon Smith, & Corderel Paterson instead of Kareem, Watt, & DeAndre Hopkins.

But they (he) wants to complain about Sam f'ckn Montgomery.

Wow... I seem to be rambling.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's hard to judge really. We want our coaches to have input on player selection. The whole "If you want me to cook the stew, you should let me buy the groceries." Thing. Even though there isn't a 5 star restaurant in the world that does it that way... serve stew I mean.

But we basically have a GM that does what the HC wants. We see that in all the ex-Broncos Kubiak brought in & ex-Patriots O'b has brought in.

However, just like we build our big boards before our mock drafts & highlight all the players we'd like to get, it isn't always cut & dry. The Texans, not just Rick Smith, or Wade Phillips, or Bobby Grier.. rated Patrick Peterson over Jj Watt. They knew they would have to move up in the draft to get Peterson... but they (Rick Smith) misjudged how far up they'd have to go to get him.

& that has been a recurring theme in Rick Smith drafts. Misjudging where targeted players are going to go. Last year it was Melvin Gordon & Tyler Lockett.

2014, it looks like we may have missed on a couple of QBs Bridgewater, Garoppolo, & we settled on Savage. At least it looks that way.

That would be my only real criticism of Rick. He targets players in the draft, but fail to get them.

I also thought he was too timid in FA & lacked the necessary skills to close the deal, selling Houston as a prime destination. But he was aggressive in acquiring Osweiler & Allen, Miller, & Bergstrum landing them all on day 1. Miller even turned down money elsewhere & Brock publicly stated he believes Houston gives him a better chance to make a name for himself than the Super Bowl winning Broncos.

Whether that is true or not is besides the point. But it would have definitely been a selling point I'd have tried to convince him of.

I know he's been accused of some bad contracts. The ones used as evidence aren't what I would call bad. They were gambles that didn't work out. Had Schaub been able to put two seasons together before going from a top 10 QB to a bottom three... that would have been a good contract. If Cushing would have protected his legs instead of going all beserker that would have been a really good contract. If Kubiak didn't ride Foster so hard (because Schaub dropped off so fast) that would have been a good contract. When healthy, those were among the best players in the league. They're going to cost money (funny how these same people call McNair cheap).

Bad contracts would be like the ones Casserly was handing out. Paying players for years of service, not production. Those guys couldn't have earned those contracts in their wildest dreams. No wonder Dunta Robinson felt he should get paid like a pro bowler for "pro bowl like" seasons.

Another thing, they don't get to see the accumulation of their "mistakes" like we can see Rick's. Imagine if we'd have drafted Kyle Wilson, Aldon Smith, & Corderel Paterson instead of Kareem, Watt, & DeAndre Hopkins.

But they (he) wants to complain about Sam f'ckn Montgomery.

Wow... I seem to be rambling.
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Not seeing this team and spending $$$$ I would agree with you. But a decade is enough time to be in a much better place than the Texans are.

Truth is the Texans the only been good at re-signing their players to bad contracts. Being mediocre in the draft is an annual Texans event.

But carry on
 
Houston Texans
In 2011, there was a debate in the building about whether Aldon Smith orJ.J. Watt would be the right fit, but when the 11th pick came around, Smith was already gone, the Texans didn't trade up for him and instead took Watt.In the years since, Wade Phillips, who was then the Texans' defensive coordinator, credited Bobby Grier, now the Texans' senior personnel adviser, for advocating for Watt. He has already won three Defensive Player of the Year awards and is easily the best defensive player in franchise history -- perhaps the best player in franchise history. -- Tania Ganguli

Bobby Grier’s name was mentioned by Phillips and he currently holds the position Senior Personnel Advisor, which is a position he has had for the past three seasons. Grier has been with the Texans since 2000 and served as the Texans associate director of pro personnel.

How was Grier added to the Texans front office? Bill Belichick fired him in 2000 to install his own vision for the organization.

Grier's previous 18 seasons before arriving to Houston started in New England, where he was a running backs coach and was the Patriots vice-president, overseeing the pro and college scouting departments, player evaluations, free agency, and the annual NFL draft.

Grier was instrumental on being the only NFL executive to call then Michigan Head Coach Lloyd Carr on a certain quarterback that was just a mid-range prospect to find out more about that particular player.

That quarterback? Tom Brady.
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FYI
 
Rick Smith the 10th best GM? What a joke.

2013 draft.
1st round - DeAndre Hopkins
2nd round - DJ Swearinger - scrub
3rd - Brennan Williams - scrub
3rd - Sam Montgomery - scrub
4th - Trevardo Williams - scrub
6th - David Quessenbery
6th - Alan Bonner - scrub
6th - Chris Jones - scrub
6th - Ryan Griffin - scrub
 
CretorFrigg said:
Rick Smith the 10th best GM? What a joke.

2013 draft.
1st round - DeAndre Hopkins
2nd round - DJ Swearinger - scrub
3rd - Brennan Williams - scrub
3rd - Sam Montgomery - scrub
4th - Trevardo Williams - scrub
6th - David Quessenbery
6th - Alan Bonner - scrub
6th - Chris Jones - scrub
6th - Ryan Griffin - scrub
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Who were all the studs that came out of that draft?
 
thunderkyss said:
Who were all the studs that came out of that draft?
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Good question - perspective is a good thing!

Five worst NFL draft classes of last 25 years
2. 2013
The 2013 draft is on the fast track toward becoming recognized as one of the worst in NFL history. The only reason it is not in the top spot here is because it happened just two years ago. The 1992 draft listed above produced no talent worthy of Canton; there is still time for the 2013 draft to redeem itself. The small pocket of talent that came out of the 2013 draft can still rise to excellence.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000495614/article/five-worst-nfl-draft-classes-of-last-25-yearshttp://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000495614/article/five-worst-nfl-draft-classes-of-last-25-years
 
ChampionTexan said:
Good question - perspective is a good thing!

Five worst NFL draft classes of last 25 years

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000495614/article/five-worst-nfl-draft-classes-of-last-25-yearshttp://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000495614/article/five-worst-nfl-draft-classes-of-last-25-years
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My point still stands. Outside of a couple years, Rick Smith has miserably failed in the draft. And for someone who believes in "building through the draft," he has an incredibly poor draft track record.
 
CretorFrigg said:
My point still stands. Outside of a couple years, Rick Smith has miserably failed in the draft. And for someone who believes in "building through the draft," he has an incredibly poor draft track record.
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Or, not. Texans are the only team with all 1st round picks since 2008 still on the roster. Smith is widely recognised as one of the best value pickers in the league in later rounds. He has pluses. He has minuses. I'd call him average. But "incredibly poor draft record" is simply your bias getting in the way of actual facts.
 
sandman said:
Or, not. Texans are the only team with all 1st round picks since 2008 still on the roster. Smith is widely recognised as one of the best value pickers in the league in later rounds. He has pluses. He has minuses. I'd call him average. But "incredibly poor draft record" is simply your bias getting in the way of actual facts.
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I don't like Smith's record in the middle rounds, but I agree that he's above average in the 1st and with UDFA's.
 
DocBar said:
I don't like Smith's record in the middle rounds, but I agree that he's above average in the 1st and with UDFA's.
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Agree about the middle rounds. That is why I put him "average" in the middle tier of GM's.

Not to you specifically, but what was the last "bad" contract that Smith offered?
 
PapaL said:
In regards to the 2013 draft - we got the best player in a weak draft at #27. Not bad at all.
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If there is a re-do of the 2013, does he go #1? Only 10 of the 1st round picks have made a Pro Bowl in their first three years, including only 4 of the top 20 picks. There are 6 Pro Bowlers between #20-#32. There is totally a case that Nuk is the best player from that draft.
 
sandman said:
If there is a re-do of the 2013, does he go #1? Only 10 of the 1st round picks have made a Pro Bowl in their first three years, including only 4 of the top 20 picks. There are 6 Pro Bowlers between #20-#32. There is totally a case that Nuk is the best player from that draft.
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At least one NFL Network analyst agrees:

1. KANSAS CITY CHIEFS

Pick: Eric Fisher

Do-over: DeAndre Hopkins

Comment: Hopkins would give the Chiefs an explosive WR1 to build around with Alex Smith at the controls.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ft-doover-deandre-hopkins-goes-no-1-to-chiefs
 
sandman said:
Agree about the middle rounds. That is why I put him "average" in the middle tier of GM's.
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What are we expecting from middle round picks?

Here are some players we've selected after the third round since 2007.

2007
* No one to speak of
2008
* No one to speak of
2009
* Glover Quin 2015 Pro Bowl (Detroit)
* James Casey Super Bowl winner (Broncos... being pretty liberal with this one)
* Brice McCain started 11 games in 2015 (Dolphins)
2010
* Garrett Graham still on our roster in 2015
* Sherrick McManis started 4 games in 2015 (Bears)
* Shelly Smith still in NFL (Dolphins)
2011
* Shilo Keo Super Bowl winner (Broncos... being even more liberal with this one)
* Tj Yates won two games (Texans)
* Derek Newton Started 16 Games (Texans)
2012
* Ben Jones started 16 games (Texans)
* Keyshawn Martin 26 catches (Patriots)
* Jared Crick started 16 games (Texans)
* Randy Bullock 8 games in 2015 (Jets)
2013
* Chris Jones started 12 games, 23 tackles, 3 sacks (Patriots)
* Ryan Griffen, 9 games, 20 catches, 12.5 ypc
2014
Too early to tell
* Tom Savage
* Jeofrey Pagan
* Alfred Blue 3 100 yard games in 2015. Avg 3.8 ypc.
* Andre Hal
* Lonnie Ballentine
2015
Too early to tell
* Keith Mumphrey
* Reshard Cliette
* Christian Covington
 
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16th best NFL GM maybe but he is by far the best godfather to the owners sons son in the NFL and that is what is most important.
 
thunderkyss said:
What are we expecting from middle round picks?

Here are some players we've selected after the first round since 2007.

2007
* No one to speak of
2008
* No one to speak of
2009
* Glover Quin 2015 Pro Bowl (Detroit)
* James Casey Super Bowl winner (Broncos... being pretty liberal with this one)
* Brice McCain started 11 games in 2015 (Dolphins)
2010
* Garrett Graham still on our roster in 2015
* Sherrick McManis started 4 games in 2015 (Bears)
* Shelly Smith still in NFL (Dolphins)
2011
* Shilo Keo Super Bowl winner (Broncos... being even more liberal with this one)
* Tj Yates won two games (Texans)
* Derek Newton Started 16 Games (Texans)
2012
* Ben Jones started 16 games (Texans)
* Keyshawn Martin 26 catches (Patriots)
* Jared Crick started 16 games (Texans)
* Randy Bullock 8 games in 2015 (Jets)
2013
* Chris Jones started 12 games, 23 tackles, 3 sacks (Patriots)
* Ryan Griffen, 9 games, 20 catches, 12.5 ypc
2014
Too early to tell
* Tom Savage
* Jeofrey Pagan
* Alfred Blue 3 100 yard games in 2015. Avg 3.8 ypc.
* Andre Hal
* Lonnie Ballentine
2015
Too early to tell
* Keith Mumphrey
* Reshard Cliette
* Christian Covington
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Part of me thinks that coaching held some of these players back plus I wish Bob stayed out of the Ed Reed signing and allowed Rick Smith to resign Glover Quinn...... That was a McNair move...
 
corytx8 said:
Part of me thinks that coaching held some of these players back plus I wish Bob stayed out of the Ed Reed signing and allowed Rick Smith to resign Glover Quinn...... That was a McNair move...
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But keep in mind that while coaching holds some of these players back coaching also pushes some players along or props them up. The right coaching situation (or the wrong one) can consign a player to obscurity or take him places he'd never get to with just his own ability.

I don't think it's possible to get a completely accurate reflection of what a GM or HC does for many years (years spent together for best results). They operate in a world where so many people and factors have input that they can do everything right and still have it blow up in their faces or do all kinds of stuff wrong and get one or two things right (even if those things were suggested by others) and come out looking good.

Smith takes a lot of crap for guys like Amobi Okoye but no respect for picks like Watt (seems to always be credited to Wade) or Duane Brown (Gibbs). Well it's easy to find people willing to take credit for picks that work out. It's a lot harder to get down to who was high on a guy who fell flat on his face. The CB's he drafted also bring a lot of grief but just being reasonable here have any of you professional Smith critics ever stepped back and looked at how many shitty CB's there are in football? The personnel world is littered with them everywhere because those guys make decent special teams players. So Fred Bennett and Antwan Molden didn't work out. It happens to every GM in the game. Some of you guys act like the Houston Texans are the only team in the NFL that doesn't want to see their 4th and 5th CB getting too much playing time. Everybody has some crappy CB's and FS's.

Considering how many things go into the final product I think anybody not universally accepted as in the running for "obviously the worst GM in the league" is doing enough right to keep the issue in doubt.

16 is about right for Rick. One or two more players work out for him and he's within sniffing distance of being in the top 10. If he had hadn't started out his tenure with that Okoye pick and the rest of the 2007 shitshow I think he'd be held in somewhat higher esteem by Texans fans. He definitely got off on the wrong foot. Followed the best draft in Texans history (2006, which he rightfully gets no credit for) with one of the worst (2007).
 
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