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Texan's 7 round draft w/ Cleveland trade

Number19

Number19

Hall of Fame
Here's my first attempt this draft season. What I'm going for here is an upgrade in speed and/or size. Also, heavily defensive because our current talent doesn't match up well with Crennel's 2-gap 34. I'm completely reworking our linebackers, with the exception of Cushing.

Cleveland wants Manziel. To get him they trade their 1-4, 1-26 and 2-35 for our 1-1.

#1a ( 1-4) OLB Anthony Barr, 6'-4", 248 lbs, 4.48 forty. Will line up at the weakside OLB position and finally give us double digit sacks from this position.

#1b ( 1-26) OLB Kyle Van Noy, 6'-3", 244 lbs, 4.65 forty. Will line up at the strongside OLB position. Has the skills and instincts in pass coverage this position requires to stay with TE's and backs. Solid run defender with a non-stop motor.

#2a (2-1) QB Jimmy Garoppolo, 6'-2", 225 lbs, 4.80 forty. Quick set up & release. Reads the field well, quick eyes, above average intelligence.

#2b (2-3) ILB Yawin Smallwood, 6'-3", 245 lbs, 4.68 forty. Underclassman who has moved up the charts since declaring. The number two rated ILB but maybe overdrafted by half a round because ILB's normally drop on draft day. More fluid than Skov and Borland, long arms and strong hands and strength to match his size. Plays fast downhill but has the skills to drop and cover. Impressive ability to rush the QB.

#3 (3-1) OT Ja'Wuan James, 6'-6", 315 lbs, 5.28 forty. Natural right tackle. Quickly recognizes stunts, initial quickness, lateral agility and flexibility, light on his feet, plays with his knees bent and has very good balance.

#4 (4-1) DE Josh Mauro, 6'-6", 276 lbs, 4.98 forty. Broad shouldered, long arms, impressive strength, plays with a non-stop motor.

#5a (5-1) NT Ryan Carrethers, 6'-1", 330 lbs, 5.25 forty. We finally get our big man in the middle. Former wrestler. Consistently moves centers off the ball, demands double teams, Sheds quickly, Uses his hands to swim and penetrate. Tough to control.

#5b (compensatory pick) CB Kendall James, 5'-11", 175 lbs, 4.38 forty. Small school player. Has the speed to stay with any receiver. Can handle press, man and zone. Solid in run support.

#5c (compensatory pick) FS/CB Marqueston Huff, 5'-11", 198 lbs, 4.40 forty. Blankets receivers, light feet, fluid hips.

#6 (6-1) RB Tyler Gaffney, 6'-0", 226 lbs, 4.57 forty. Excellent college production at Stanford.

#7a (7-1) TE Jordan Najvar, 6'-6", 262 lbs, 4.88 forty. Reliable hands, but is a blocking TE.

#7b (compensatory pick) KR/RB DeAnthony Thomas, 5'-9", 170 lbs, 4.34 forty. Electrifying player.
 
Pretty interesting, would you care to say what happens to Mercilus and Reed? I was big fan of Huff but he didn't look good in the after season game. Just a thought but I'd go with a bigger DT to replace Smith. Not sure Brown will give up their second with the two firsts but maybe one or both of their thirds instead? I'm thinking Josh Gordon could be a part of their trade offer.
 
badboy said:
Pretty interesting, would you care to say what happens to Mercilus and Reed? I was big fan of Huff but he didn't look good in the after season game. Just a thought but I'd go with a bigger DT to replace Smith. Not sure Brown will give up their second with the two firsts but maybe one or both of their thirds instead? I'm thinking Josh Gordon could be a part of their trade offer.
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Reed will be fighting for a backup role, either inside or outside - if he makes the team. Mercilus was a hard decision. IMO he's an unknown. If I was convinced he could be dominating in our new defensive scheme, I'd have to completely rethink my draft. Barr would be. Perhaps Barr could move to SAM and open up 1b- maybe WR Allen Robinson - but I'd more likely go OL. But Mercilus does present a dilemma for me.

Mauro is my most unsatisfactory pick. Ed Stinson and Taylor Hart are two other players I'm looking at as being available in the mid-rounds. I'll see what comes out of the combine.

This is just my first go round and will surely evolve as we approach the draft.
 
badboy said:
really like Hart but I am going with Tuitt # 34.
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He should be an ideal fit in Crennel's defense - large DE who demands a double team. He has some quickness to go with his size.

The weakness in Crennel's defense is that teams refuse to double team the DE, going after the OLB, if the DE doesn't have the ability to punish the offense if left one-on-one. Tuitt seems to have the skills to get to the QB.
 
Number19 said:
Here's my first attempt this draft season.

#1a ( 1-4) OLB Anthony Barr

#1b ( 1-26) OLB Kyle Van Noy

#2a (2-1) QB Jimmy Garoppolo

#2b (2-3) ILB Yawin Smallwood

#3 (3-1) OT Ja'Wuan James

#4 (4-1) DE Josh Mauro

#5a (5-1) NT Ryan Carrethers
Click to expand...

6, maybe 7 starters... yeah I think that would kill.
badboy said:
Pretty interesting, would you care to say what happens to Mercilus and Reed?
Click to expand...

If we cut Mercilus it hurts our cap by $900K. However, cutting Reed makes up for it. Depending on what Travardo looks like in year two though... I'd most likely keep them for depth this year, but they'll be on notice if they aren't already.
 
Number19 said:
Reed will be fighting for a backup role, either inside or outside - if he makes the team. Mercilus was a hard decision. IMO he's an unknown. If I was convinced he could be dominating in our new defensive scheme, I'd have to completely rethink my draft. Barr would be. Perhaps Barr could move to SAM and open up 1b- maybe WR Allen Robinson - but I'd more likely go OL. But Mercilus does present a dilemma for me.
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I'd like to see a WR in this draft, but.... I don't have a problem with having "too much talent" on defense, if there is such a thing.

I want to dominate on one side of the ball after this draft. Get me Sammy Watkins in the first & Morgan Moses in the second... then Andre Williams in the 4th or 5th & I think we can dominate on offense.

Your draft as is, we dominate on defense & I'm fine with that.
 
thunderkyss said:
6, maybe 7 starters... yeah I think that would kill.


If we cut Mercilus it hurts our cap by $900K. However, cutting Reed makes up for it. Depending on what Travardo looks like in year two though... I'd most likely keep them for depth this year, but they'll be on notice if they aren't already.
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How about we see what Mercilous can do with real coaching before we cut him.
 
mussop said:
100%agree with this. Scared he's going to be long gone before 34. If he's there we better run to the podium.
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in my trade scenario trying to decide Van Noy at #26 and Tuitt #34 or switch them. Getting both would be awesome.
 
mussop said:
How about we see what Mercilous can do with real coaching before we cut him.
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I was just throwing it out there..... that it would be a wash if we cut both (cap wise)... I suggested we keep them both. But I'm still drafting a pass rusher before I sit & wait for Merci to blow up.
 
I'm wasting too much time on football this weekend, trying to analyze potential trades.

The Rams, at #2, don't need a QB but need OL. They are likely to trade back a few spots and still have their choice of several elite prospects. But who would be likely to trade up?

Unfortunately, Cleveland is one. They want Manziel, but would settle for Bridgewater. This trade would insure them of getting one or the other. So why trade with the Texans?

Minnesota, sitting at #8, needs a QB. But to trade up so many spots would cost too much. They are more likely to sit tight and draft defense if a QB doesn't fall to them.

That leaves Oakland as a franchise needing a QB. They could sit tight and pick up Californian Derek Carr. But I can see Manziel fitting perfectly into Oakland and the Californian scene. Could they be a likely trade partner for the Texans, stealing Manziel away from Cleveland?

So what would we get from such a trade? It would take their #2 and their #3; so we would get #5, #36 and #67.

But they could pull the same trade with the Rams, leaving Cleveland at #4. And what about the Jags, sitting at #3? They need a QB to either replace or push Gabbert, but do they need to take one at this spot? They also need a DE and here they are sitting perfect for Clowney. So QB or Clowney? That's the question running through the Cleveland organization.

With the likelihood of St Louis trading back, to insure themselves of getting one of the top three QB's, Cleveland has to think to themselves that they have to trade up. But I think Badboy is probably right. In my trade scenario I'm asking too much. I'm thinking a more realistic price is in keeping with something similar to what Oakland would offer, and that is, Cleveland's #2 and their #3 might entice them into pulling the deal with the Texans. We would end up with picks #4, #35 and #71.

If the Texans manage a trade, either with Cleveland or Oakland, or someone else, what we get in return will be along these lines.

What goes against the Texans though is history. A trade for the #1 pick is seldom pulled off. But I'm going to have to adjust this draft to reflect this more realistic trade value. And I'll have to also come up with a draft to reflect a much more probable no-trade situation.

PS There's one other trade possibility, and that is, Atlanta trading up to take Clowney. They need OL help and they could sit tight for this need. But they also need a DE. We need Clowney to just just blow everyone away with his workout. And he say's he's going to do exactly that.
 
mussop said:
How about we see what Mercilous can do with real coaching before we cut him.
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I wouldn't cut him this season, you're right. But I would put out feelers to see if he has trade value. He's two years into his rookie contract and has put up somewhat decent production: 72 tackles w/ 53 solo to go along with 13 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. We should get at least a #3 for him. But he might be more valuable to us in a backup role.
 
badboy said:
Pretty interesting, would you care to say what happens to Mercilus and Reed? I was big fan of Huff but he didn't look good in the after season game. Just a thought but I'd go with a bigger DT to replace Smith. Not sure Brown will give up their second with the two firsts but maybe one or both of their thirds instead? I'm thinking Josh Gordon could be a part of their trade offer.
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I would take #4, Josh Gordon, a 3rd rd pick and a 2015 1st for #1 and a 5th.

Of course I think Gordon is only behind Calvin and A.J. Green in WR rankings in the NFL.
 
steelbtexan said:
I would take #4, Josh Gordon, a 3rd rd pick and a 2015 1st for #1 and a 5th.

Of course I think Gordon is only behind Calvin and A.J. Green in WR rankings in the NFL.
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I seriously doubt they give up (2) 1st's, a 3rd, and their best player. That's basically (3) 1st's + a 3rd. I know there were a lot of rumors about him being on the market last year, but I seriously doubt that still carries any weight at this point.
 
WolverineFan said:
I seriously doubt they give up (2) 1st's, a 3rd, and their best player. That's basically (3) 1st's + a 3rd. I know there were a lot of rumors about him being on the market last year, but I seriously doubt that still carries any weight at this point.
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Agreed

That's an RG3 trade. But the Texans are assuming a lot of risk. Gordon is 1 strike away from becoming Blackmon. So while his on field value is a 1st his actual value is probably in the 2nd/3rd rd range. IMHO
 
Number19 said:
I'm thinking a more realistic price is in keeping with something similar to what Oakland would offer, and that is, Cleveland's #2 and their #3 might entice them into pulling the deal with the Texans. We would end up with picks #4, #35 and #71.
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Just me, but I would ask for their 4th as well, it only adds another 92 points to the deal.


4, 33, 35, 65, 71, 97, & 102...

3 picks in the top 35, seven picks in the top 100 (a little stretch to include 102)
 
Number19 said:
I'm wasting too much time on football this weekend, trying to analyze potential trades.

The Rams, at #2, don't need a QB but need OL. They are likely to trade back a few spots and still have their choice of several elite prospects. But who would be likely to trade up?

Unfortunately, Cleveland is one. They want Manziel, but would settle for Bridgewater. This trade would insure them of getting one or the other. So why trade with the Texans?

Minnesota, sitting at #8, needs a QB. But to trade up so many spots would cost too much. They are more likely to sit tight and draft defense if a QB doesn't fall to them.

That leaves Oakland as a franchise needing a QB. They could sit tight and pick up Californian Derek Carr. But I can see Manziel fitting perfectly into Oakland and the Californian scene. Could they be a likely trade partner for the Texans, stealing Manziel away from Cleveland?

So what would we get from such a trade? It would take their #2 and their #3; so we would get #5, #36 and #67.

But they could pull the same trade with the Rams, leaving Cleveland at #4. And what about the Jags, sitting at #3? They need a QB to either replace or push Gabbert, but do they need to take one at this spot? They also need a DE and here they are sitting perfect for Clowney. So QB or Clowney? That's the question running through the Cleveland organization.

With the likelihood of St Louis trading back, to insure themselves of getting one of the top three QB's, Cleveland has to think to themselves that they have to trade up. But I think Badboy is probably right. In my trade scenario I'm asking too much. I'm thinking a more realistic price is in keeping with something similar to what Oakland would offer, and that is, Cleveland's #2 and their #3 might entice them into pulling the deal with the Texans. We would end up with picks #4, #35 and #71.

If the Texans manage a trade, either with Cleveland or Oakland, or someone else, what we get in return will be along these lines.

What goes against the Texans though is history. A trade for the #1 pick is seldom pulled off. But I'm going to have to adjust this draft to reflect this more realistic trade value. And I'll have to also come up with a draft to reflect a much more probable no-trade situation.

PS There's one other trade possibility, and that is, Atlanta trading up to take Clowney. They need OL help and they could sit tight for this need. But they also need a DE. We need Clowney to just just blow everyone away with his workout. And he say's he's going to do exactly that.
Click to expand...

I suggest the first scenario
1-4(1800), 1-26(700) and 2-35(550)((3050)) for our 1-1 ((3000)).

or the second scenario with the addition of their 2015 first round picks (@420) and #103 (88)
#5(1700), #36(540) and #67(255) plus 2015-1 {420} and #103(88)((3003)) for our 1-1 ((3000)).

or the third scenario with the addition of their 2015 first round picks (@420)
#4(1800), #35(550) and #71(235) plus 2015-1 {420}((3005)) for our 1-1 ((3000)).

These seem to be floors for a trade.
Vikings response?
8 1400
40 500
72 230
96 116
104 86
136 38
168 24.2
200 11.4
2015#1 420
2015#2 210
((3036))
 
Marshall said:
I suggest the first scenario...
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This was also my first thought, to get value for value. But it takes two to tango. Looking at the needs of the teams available for a trade, and looking at the depth of the draft boards, there is not much incentive for teams to sacrifice the farm to trade up. In economic terms, it is not a seller's market. Under these circumstances you have to reduce your asking price to something more attractive to the buyer.

In my draft, I'm wanting to put the pieces in place to have a dominate defense built around the linebackers. I can lower my asking price, to make the trade, and to get me the picks I need to achieve my objective. This is a deep draft in the positions I'm targeting. So I come out ahead even if I don't get full sticker price value.
 
thunderkyss said:
Just me, but I would ask for their 4th as well, it only adds another 92 points to the deal.


4, 33, 35, 65, 71, 97, & 102...

3 picks in the top 35, seven picks in the top 100 (a little stretch to include 102)
Click to expand...
You always ask for a little bit more than you're willing to settle for. If they bite - great.
 
Here's my, revised (based on your input), first attempt at a pre-combine draft board. What I'm going for here is an upgrade in speed and/or size. Also, heavily defensive because our current talent doesn't match up well with Crennel's 2-gap 34. I'm completely reworking our linebackers, with the exception of Cushing.

I agree that Cleveland would not likely trade if the cost is too high, so I'm not asking for pick 1-26 and instead asking for 3-35. I also originally had my selections overvalued and the new positioning more accurately reflects current valuations. Of course this positioning may change after the combine.

Actually, these changes allow me to take a WR in the third round and I think I've found a good prospect.

Cleveland wants Manziel. To insure they get him, they accept a trade for their 1-4, 2-35 and 3-71 for our 1-1.

#1 ( 1-4) OLB Anthony Barr, 6'-4", 248 lbs, 4.48 forty. Will line up at the weakside OLB position and finally give us double digit sacks from this position. Barr is raw, but what I'm aiming at, as he develops, is Clay Mathew's production at the position.

#2a ( 2-33) OLB Kyle Van Noy, 6'-3", 244 lbs, 4.65 forty. Will line up at the strongside OLB position. Has the skills and instincts in pass coverage this position requires to stay with TE's and backs. Solid run defender with a non-stop motor.

#2b (2-35) QB Jimmy Garoppolo, 6'-2", 225 lbs, 4.80 forty. Quick set up & release. Reads the field well, quick eyes, above average intelligence.

#3a (3-65) ILB Yawin Smallwood, 6'-3", 245 lbs, 4.68 forty. Underclassman who has moved up the charts since declaring. The number two rated ILB but maybe overdrafted by half a round because ILB's normally drop on draft day. More fluid than Skov and Borland, long arms and strong hands and strength to match his size. Plays fast downhill but has the skills to drop and cover. Impressive ability to rush the QB.

#3b (3-71) WR Donte Moncrief, 6'-2", 226 lbs, 4.49 forty. Deceptive speed, smooth route running. Sudden in his breaks. Can generate separation. Accelerates quickly. Tracks the ball well and has good hands. Shows awareness and toughness as a downfield blocker.

#4 (4-97) OT Ja'Wuan James, 6'-6", 315 lbs, 5.28 forty. Natural right tackle. Quickly recognizes stunts, initial quickness, lateral agility and flexibility, light on his feet, plays with his knees bent and has very good balance.

#5a (5-129) DE Josh Mauro, 6'-6", 276 lbs, 4.98 forty. Broad shouldered, long arms, impressive strength, plays with a non-stop motor.

#5b (comp) NT Ryan Carrethers, 6'-1", 330 lbs, 5.25 forty. We finally get our big man in the middle. Former wrestler. Consistently moves centers off the ball, demands double teams, Sheds quickly, Uses his hands to swim and penetrate. Tough to control.

#5c (com) CB Kendall James, 5'-11", 175 lbs, 4.38 forty. Small school player. Has the speed to stay with any receiver. Can handle press, man and zone. Solid in run support.

#6 (6-161) FS/CB Marqueston Huff, 5'-11", 198 lbs, 4.40 forty. Blankets receivers, light feet, fluid hips.

#7a (7-193) RB Tyler Gaffney, 6'-0", 226 lbs, 4.57 forty. Excellent college production at Stanford.

#7b (comp) KR/RB DeAnthony Thomas, 5'-9", 170 lbs, 4.34 forty. Electrifying player.
 
Very interesting mock - great job.

I love the idea of trading with Cleveland so they can guarantee the QB they want. This assumes O'Brien isn't enamored by a QB.

But I really want to swing and get Cleveland's 2015 1st round pick as part of the trade. I would give up our 1.1 for their 1.4, 2.35, and 2015 #1 in a heartbeat. Would also like their 1.4 + 1.26 + 2015 #1 in exchange for our 1.1 and maybe 3.65

Ps I love the pick up of Moncrief. Dude is and will be a stud.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
LINK?

I've always thought Reed going inside was primarily a fan driven dream based on Reed cross-training there in the off-season.
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It was driven by having next to crap next to Cushing & not wanting to give up on a 2nd round pick.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
I understand the logic but want to be clear on if RAC and OB are thinking that too.
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i read somewhere (hopefully i can find the link) that Rac likes to play OLB at ILB because of the block shedding ability and there knack for penetrating the pocket.

the link mentioned nothing of reed though and was written before he was officially announced as DC i think.
 
I've been constantly rethinking this. The latest development (now a week and a half old) is that Cleveland fired Lombardi as GM and hired Farmer. Lombardi was the one really enamored with Manziel. The new organization seems more prone to sit tight and take what falls to them. It's a buyers market and so I've moved my asking price down even further.

Now I'm looking at a trade with either Cleveland or Oakland - and all I'm asking is a second and a third. So still using Cleveland as an example, they would get 1-1 in exchange for 1-4, 2-35 and 3-71.

At 1-4 I take Khalil Mack.

I then take 2-35 and 3-71 and trade back up into the first, somewhere around #20. I use this pick to take Stephon Tuitt.

At this point, 2-33 will probably be a hot item - first pick on the second day after everyone has time to think. I want to trade this pick for a high third.

My second round pick then becomes Donte Montcrief (I hope he's still there - he's moving up the boards).

I then use the acquired third to try and move back up into the second to pick up either Skov or Smallwood.

At 3-95 I take Ju'wuan James, who'll be moving back up the boards after his combine performance.

At 4-97 I take Carrethers (only if I don't think he'll be available at 5-129)

With these picks I've got my new improved front seven, adding Mack at SAM OLB, Tuitt at weak side DE, Skov or Smallwood next to Cushing and Carrethers as our new big man to anchor the middle.

In addition I've added a great WR and a RT to compete for playing time.

This is a lot of wheeling and dealing. Is it possible to pull off? Later I'll come up with some variation assuming no trades at all. There is a very high probability that no trade, at least at 1-1, will actually be our situation. But for now, I'm just dreaming.
 
Number19 said:
I've been constantly rethinking this. The latest development (now a week and a half old) is that Cleveland fired Lombardi as GM and hired Farmer. Lombardi was the one really enamored with Manziel. The new organization seems more prone to sit tight and take what falls to them. It's a buyers market and so I've moved my asking price down even further.

Now I'm looking at a trade with either Cleveland or Oakland - and all I'm asking is a second and a third. So still using Cleveland as an example, they would get 1-1 in exchange for 1-4, 2-35 and 3-71.

At 1-4 I take Khalil Mack.

I then take 2-35 and 3-71 and trade back up into the first, somewhere around #20. I use this pick to take Stephon Tuitt.

At this point, 2-33 will probably be a hot item - first pick on the second day after everyone has time to think. I want to trade this pick for a high third.

My second round pick then becomes Donte Montcrief (I hope he's still there - he's moving up the boards).

I then use the acquired third to try and move back up into the second to pick up either Skov or Smallwood.

At 3-95 I take Ju'wuan James, who'll be moving back up the boards after his combine performance.

At 4-97 I take Carrethers (only if I don't think he'll be available at 5-129)

With these picks I've got my new improved front seven, adding Mack at SAM OLB, Tuitt at weak side DE, Skov or Smallwood next to Cushing and Carrethers as our new big man to anchor the middle.

In addition I've added a great WR and a RT to compete for playing time.

This is a lot of wheeling and dealing. Is it possible to pull off? Later I'll come up with some variation assuming no trades at all. There is a very high probability that no trade, at least at 1-1, will actually be our situation. But for now, I'm just dreaming.
Click to expand...

So who would be the Texans QB if they drafted like this?
 
Insideop said:
So who would be the Texans QB if they drafted like this?
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I'd be going with a FA signing and, probably, Keenum. I'd see who was available in the 5th.

If need be, I'd draft a QB next year. We likely won't have a top 10 pick, but will probably be drafting somewhere in the middle. With a strong draft this year, I'd be willing to trade a two and maybe a three, next year, to move up.

We have a new defensive coach who prefers to play a 2-gap 34. Our current personnel just doesn't fit in well with this defensive scheme, so I'd like to put in place the nucleus for our new defense.

Also, coming into my decision, is that we will have about two weeks of on-field practice for OB to evaluate Keenum and Tate, prior to the draft. If he just doesn't like what he sees, then I'd want to go QB with our first pick. But as I have no way of knowing, for now, I'm going defense with my draft.
 
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