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Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?

silvrhand

All Pro
Question,

Does anyone know what type of offense Bill O'Brien is likely to use? My main concern is our offensive line for so many years are smaller more athletic and we have a considerable investment in 2 of them, and our running back is very geared towards the zone based running game, which we have another large investement in.

Thoughts on how this will work out?

- John
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Question,

Does anyone know what type of offense Bill O'Brien is likely to use? My main concern is our offensive line for so many years are smaller more athletic and we have a considerable investment in 2 of them, and our running back is very geared towards the zone based running game, which we have another large investement in.

Thoughts on how this will work out?

- John
With exception of Myers the rest of Oline are big boys that could play in a power type O. If Ben Jones can handle the less complex center in a Power, I'm all for allowing Myers to go saving $ and giving Jones reps.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If it's anything like the Patriots, here's a good article for you:

Speak My Language

As the players and schemes have changed, it's the way the Patriots talk that's continued their offensive dominance

[EXCERPT]

New England's offense is a member of the NFL's third offensive family, the Erhardt-Perkins system. The offense was named after the two men, Ron Erhardt and Ray Perkins, who developed it while working for the Patriots under head coach Chuck Fairbanks in the 1970s. According to Perkins, it was assembled in the same way most such systems are developed. "I don't look at it as us inventing it," he explained. "I look at it as a bunch of coaches sitting in rooms late at night organizing and getting things together to help players be successful."

The backbone of the Erhardt-Perkins system is that plays — pass plays in particular — are not organized by a route tree or by calling a single receiver's route, but by what coaches refer to as "concepts." Each play has a name, and that name conjures up an image for both the quarterback and the other players on offense. And, most importantly, the concept can be called from almost any formation or set. Who does what changes, but the theory and tactics driving the play do not. "In essence, you're running the same play," said Perkins. "You're just giving them some window-dressing to make it look different."

The biggest advantage of the concept-based system is that it operates from the perspective of the most critical player on offense: the quarterback. In other systems, even if the underlying principles are the exact same, the play and its name might be very different. Rather than juggling all this information in real time, an Erhardt-Perkins quarterback only has to read a given arrangement of receivers. "You can cut down on the plays and get different looks from your formations and who's in them. It's easier for the players to learn. It's easier for the quarterback to learn," former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis said back in 2000. "You get different looks without changing his reads. You don't need an open-ended number of plays."

Full article
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
With exception of Myers the rest of Oline are big boys that could play in a power type O. If Ben Jones can handle the less complex center in a Power, I'm all for allowing Myers to go saving $ and giving Jones reps.
Why are you going with your hopes when there is an answer already at hand?

silvrhnd - they have hired an OL coach, Brian Ferentz. He is the son of Kirk Ferentz (who interviewed for the Texans HC position in 2006) current Iowa HC (where he coached Brian). They are ZBS disciples. This is not surprising since the Patriots are a zone based team.

The Patriots center is 6'2" 275 lbs.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Why are you going with your hopes when there is an answer already at hand?

silvrhnd - they have hired an OL coach, Brian Ferentz. He is the son of Kirk Ferentz (who interviewed for the Texans HC position in 2006) current Iowa HC (where he coached Brian). They are ZBS disciples. This is not surprising since the Patriots are a zone based team.

The Patriots center is 6'2" 275 lbs.
I didn't realize there is two Ferentze's. I thought we were getting the one we interviewed in 2006.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Why are you going with your hopes when there is an answer already at hand?

silvrhnd - they have hired an OL coach, Brian Ferentz. He is the son of Kirk Ferentz (who interviewed for the Texans HC position in 2006) current Iowa HC (where he coached Brian). They are ZBS disciples. This is not surprising since the Patriots are a zone based team.

The Patriots center is 6'2" 275 lbs.
Got any documentation to back that up ? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's just that I was unsuccessful in finding any definitive explanation of the Hawkeyes offense being operated with a preference for either a Power or a Zone Blocking scheme.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Got any documentation to back that up ? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's just that I was unsuccessful in finding any definitive explanation of the Hawkeyes offense being operated with a preference for either a Power or a Zone Blocking scheme.
Well, I don't know how reliable this is but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_blocking

1995-2009: Denver Broncos [HC Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels (kept scheme in first year)]
1999-Present: University of Iowa [HC Kirk Ferentz]
2001-2007: West Virginia University [HC Rich Rodriguez]
2001-2008: Bowling Green State University [HC Urban Meyer and Gregg Brandon]
2002-2006: University of Minnesota [HC Glen Mason]
2003-2004: University of Utah [HC Urban Meyer]
2004-2006: Atlanta Falcons [HC Jim L. Mora]
2005-2010: University of Florida [HC Urban Meyer]
2005-2009: University of Notre Dame [HC Charlie Weis]
2006-2010: University of Michigan [HC Lloyd Carr and Rich Rodriguez]
2006-Present: Green Bay Packers [HC Mike McCarthy]
2006-Present: Houston Texans [HC Gary Kubiak]
2007-2012: University of Oregon [OC Chip Kelly]
I took out more than necessary to show that Kubiak is in there but also to show that Weis is in there as well as McDaniel (for at least his first year at Denver) in addition to Ferentz.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Got any documentation to back that up ? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's just that I was unsuccessful in finding any definitive explanation of the Hawkeyes offense being operated with a preference for either a Power or a Zone Blocking scheme.
Not sure why you can't find anything. "Kirk Ferentz Iowa zone blocking" came up with a bunch.

These are from wiki:

The University of Iowa under head coach Kirk Ferentz, a former NFL offensive line coach, utilizes zone blocking and the inside/outside stretch play as the basis for their offense.
Maybe I undersold him as a disciple:

The concept of Zone blocking in both the run and pass game was created by Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz. However, this blocking scheme came to prominence when used by the Denver Broncos, under offensive line coach Alex Gibbs (formerly the offensive line coach for the Seattle Seahawks), and head coach Mike Shanahan.
Kirk Ferentz was Belichick's OL coach the last 3 seasons in Cleveland.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Not sure why you can't find anything. "Kirk Ferentz Iowa zone blocking" came up with a bunch.

These are from wiki:



Maybe I undersold him as a disciple:



Kirk Ferentz was Belichick's OL coach the last 3 seasons in Cleveland.
Yup, I missed it bigger than hell. Don't know how I managed to do that ? I think I looked under the school and not the coach. Anyway good deal, because I like the zone blocking stuff and looks like it's gonna be around in Houston for quite a bit more time.
Now we'll need to sit tight to see who the DC will be to find out if we are gonna go with a 3-4 or 4-3 ?
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Question,

Does anyone know what type of offense Bill O'Brien is likely to use? My main concern is our offensive line for so many years are smaller more athletic and we have a considerable investment in 2 of them, and our running back is very geared towards the zone based running game, which we have another large investement in.

Thoughts on how this will work out?

- John
I imagine they will be running a scheme that is fast paced and can run on different types of tempos. It will adjust to pass heavy and run heavy at different periods of time depending on who the opposition is. O'Brien really didn't run the offense that much different than how McDaniels is running it right now. O'Briend had been on the Patriots staff before McDaniels left to coach the Broncos. I think you'll see a very similar style offense to what they tried to execute in NE, but we'll have to wait until we have a QB who can really implement that game plan to the high level people are used to seeing.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Was watching some Penn St. and Iowa; they both employed the ZBS alright.

Iowa has a good-looking RT (Brett Van Slotten) that the Texans will probably bring in as an UDFA.
He's a very athletic guy that needs to build up some more strength for the run game. Second team All Big 12.
Taylor Lewan, a first-teamer, will probably be drafted in the first round.
The other first-teamer is a Jr for the Hawkeyes, who had decided to go back to school.
The other second-teamer, Mewhort, is slotted to be drafted in the 3rd-4th.

Van Slotten looked good in the Outback Bowl against LSU.
He didn't allow any QB pressure; it was the interior line that leaked.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
If Munchack were in fact to be hired as the OLine coach (which would really surprise me), let me just say that our chances of being a predominantly ZBS team would drop substantially because I don't think he drafted Chance Warmack last year when he was the Titans HC with his first round pick to run a finesse ZB scheme.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
If Munchack were in fact to be hired as the OLine coach (which would really surprise me), let me just say that our chances of being a predominantly ZBS team would drop substantially because I don't think he drafted Chance Warmack last year when he was the Titans HC with his first round pick to run a finesse ZB scheme.
I don't think the rest of the line was much suited to run zbs predominately. You don't change the scheme to fit only the one player. But to think that Munchak doesn't know or can teach the zbs is kinda silly, and what does who Tennessee drafted have to do with what kind of offense O'Brien want to run?
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
I don't think the rest of the line was much suited to run zbs predominately. You don't change the scheme to fit only the one player. But to think that Munchak doesn't know or can teach the zbs is kinda silly, and what does who Tennessee drafted have to do with what kind of offense O'Brien want to run?
Maybe he's bringing Womack with him. :kitten:
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
If Munchack were in fact to be hired as the OLine coach (which would really surprise me), let me just say that our chances of being a predominantly ZBS team would drop substantially because I don't think he drafted Chance Warmack last year when he was the Titans HC with his first round pick to run a finesse ZB scheme.
The titans have, in fact, run the ZBS a lot. Heck, practically every team in the NFL mixes in ZBS running plays. They just don't base their entire offense around it like we did.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The titans have, in fact, run the ZBS a lot. Heck, practically every team in the NFL mixes in ZBS running plays. They just don't base their entire offense around it like we did.
I know that teams run a variety of offensive schemes just as they run a variety of defenses. Nevertheless a team will be a base 3-4 or base 4-3 on defense, just as it will favor the power or zone scheme though they will run both throughout the course of a game, every game they play.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I don't think the rest of the line was much suited to run zbs predominately. You don't change the scheme to fit only the one player. But to think that Munchak doesn't know or can teach the zbs is kinda silly, and what does who Tennessee drafted have to do with what kind of offense O'Brien want to run?
Big-time FA Andy Levitre, the other Titans starting guard, cost the Titans lots of money and no doubt he was also a power type. Teams usually don't invest that kind of money or 1st round picks for zone guys, i.e., they are taken to go mano-a-mano against a JJ Watt for example. And Munchacks personal game was also power game, that's how he got into the HOF. But can Munchack teach other methods ? Of course, I'm sure he could teach any system, but I'm just pointing out what his preferences almost surely are.
And just as surely, I'd expect rookie NFL HC O'Brien will highly value Munchack's advise to include his preferences about OLine play.
 

speedfreek

All Pro
Would at least make for a more interesting offense..

Would Romeo ever take a swing at Mangini?

Come to think of it -- our coaching staff might make
a pretty good DL (sizewise)

RC in the middle, Mangini and O'brien at end..
nyuk nyuk nyuk..

Man screw it, somebody tell Billy boy to install the ol' Chuck and Duck....

Bring back to glory days of the Oilers...
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
If it's anything like the Patriots, here's a good article for you:

Speak My Language


The theory here is that no matter the formation, there is an outside receiver, an inside receiver, and a middle receiver, and each will be responsible for running his designated route. For the quarterback, this means the play can be run repeatedly, from different formations and with different personnel, all while his read stays effectively the same. Once receivers understand each concept, they only have to know at which position they’re lined up. The personnel and formation might cause the defense to respond differently, but for New England those changes only affect which side Brady prefers or which receiver he expects to be open. This conceptual approach is how the Patriots are able to run the same basic plays, whether spreading the field with four or five receivers or using multiple tight ends and running backs.

The most recent innovation to fall into New England’s Erhardt-Perkins framework is a commitment to the no-huddle...
Really like having all three 3rds of the field to use from the snap, but we've got to start getting first downs to make the no huddle effective. Looks like we're:

28th in 1st downs per game,
29th in 1st Quarter scoring, and
28th in plays per game.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/plays-per-game
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame








Really like having all three 3rds of the field to use from the snap, but we've got to start getting first downs to make the no huddle effective. Looks like we're:



28th in 1st downs per game,

29th in 1st Quarter scoring, and

28th in plays per game.



http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/plays-per-game

Great article. Thanks! I learned a lot. It sounds like this system was developed to simplify the offense play calling. So why do some players (namely Ochocinco) have a hard time adjusting to it?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Great article. Thanks! I learned a lot. It sounds like this system was developed to simplify the offense play calling. So why do some players (namely Ochocinco) have a hard time adjusting to it?
He's got to be on the same page with the QB. He's got to see what the QB sees.

& I doubt it was just an inability to pick it up that kept him on the bench. OchoCinco was a very "me" oriented player in a very "team" oriented environment.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
He's got to be on the same page with the QB. He's got to see what the QB sees.

& I doubt it was just an inability to pick it up that kept him on the bench. OchoCinco was a very "me" oriented player in a very "team" oriented environment.
I thought he didn't run the right routes and instead preferred to just run to open spots.

OTOH, when he got to the Dolphins, it wasn't just his routes, it was his hands. He couldn't seem to catch anything.
 

Dread-Head

Hall of Fame
[In best Irish Brogue]
(To the tune of "If I only had a Brain" from The Wizzard of Oz.)

We would cheer away the hours
in sunshine and in showers
and cold torrential rain...

Other teams would be crappin'
fearin' J.J. Watt's attackin'
If we ONLY HAD A QUARTERBACK!
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
In every image , the TE's routes break towards the sidelines .... as does every route on the strong side (other than the deep routes that are already on the sideline).

Not that this is the only play in the book .... but it does illustrate my earlier point , in multiple threads , that they don't do much up with the deep / intermediate routes between the hash marks , space that TE's often occupy and that are a staple of the NE passing attack.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
In every image , the TE's routes break towards the sidelines .... as does every route on the strong side (other than the deep routes that are already on the sideline).

Not that this is the only play in the book .... but it does illustrate my earlier point , in multiple threads , that they don't do much up with the deep / intermediate routes between the hash marks , space that TE's often occupy and that are a staple of the NE passing attack.
Well, the Texans and the Patriots playbooks in that regard are pretty much the same thing. Those plays are in our playbook.

But a lot of this boils down to:
1) The Gameplan -- figuring out which of our plays we're going to focus on that we think are going to take advantage of what our opponents do and that's on the coaches

2) The calls at the line -- because in this offense, if you have a group of receivers on a side, the QB can change their route combination to any other route combination for that number of receivers. It's up to the QB to make the pre-snap read and then alter those routes to something that will take advantage of that defense. This is where I feel Fitzpatrick is failing because he's not putting them into route combinations that free them up.

Where you're calling the route combinations uninspired and ineffective and blaming the playcalling and play design, I'm placing the blame on Fitzpatrick because that's the route combo he chose to go with.

This is what's so intrinsically different from our old offense. Getting guys open with the route combinations was on the play design and on Kubiak's playcalling with the old system and it worked and he was good at it, but the new system just doesn't work that way. And right now, I think that's probably Fitzpatrick's fault unless OB and Godsey aren't preparing him properly to change to the most effective routine combos.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This is what's so intrinsically different from our old offense. Getting guys open with the route combinations was on the play design and on Kubiak's playcalling with the old system and it worked and he was good at it, but the new system just doesn't work that way. And right now, I think that's probably Fitzpatrick's fault unless OB and Godsey aren't preparing him properly to change to the most effective routine combos.
it may just be that he hasn't seen enough yet. Learning it on the board & in practice is one thing but when he sees it on the field it may look totally different. That may be why he seems to look a lot better after halftime because he's seen most of their defense by then & the coaches were able to help him relate in the locker room.
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
In every image , the TE's routes break towards the sidelines .... as does every route on the strong side (other than the deep routes that are already on the sideline).

Not that this is the only play in the book .... but it does illustrate my earlier point , in multiple threads , that they don't do much up with the deep / intermediate routes between the hash marks , space that TE's often occupy and that are a staple of the NE passing attack.
That's just one play/route concept.

Between the hash marks...

Patriots in 210(44% more) total attempts are
20+ yards: 3/8 - 107 - 1TD - 0INT for PFF Passer Rating = 125.0

10-19 yards: 19/32 - 323 - 2TD - 1INT for PFF Passer Rating = 101.4
Texans in 160 total attempts are
20+ yards: 4/6 - 159 - 1TD - 2INT for PFF Passer Rating = 109.7

10-19 yards: 11/16 - 147 - 0TD - 1INT for PFF Passer Rating = 71.6
What we're seeing is an offense run more through WRs than TEs/SlotWRs, as that is where the talent is on this team.

TE targets(57): Gronk 44, Hoomanawanui 2, Wright 11

TE targets(18): Graham 12, Fiedo 3, Griffin 3

What we need is to run more plays. 80+ per game. And we need our young TE to master the snap count and blocking assignments so he can graduate to pass-catching. And we need better arm talent at QB.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
So you're saying that Fitzpatrick can't audible out of a bad play?
Not at all ... What I'm stating is that while Fitzpatrick sucks .... so does this scheme. Its very rudimentary as far as NFL offenses go. It also ignores routes that attack the middle of the field .... and doesn't take advantage of the strengths of some players - Particularly:

Arian Foster with the lack of play action.
A TE who has proven the ability to produce in Graham.
Doesn't attack the middle of the field allowing defenses to largely ignore defending it concentrating their efforts outside.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Not sure where you are getting your stats. Fitz is 4 of 10 beyond 20 yds.

And comparing anything to this year's Patriots is a bit off.

Edit - he is 109.7 from 30+ where he is 3 of 4 which kind of proves the point it ain't even being tried rather than they are good at it.
 

playa465

Veteran
In every image , the TE's routes break towards the sidelines .... as does every route on the strong side (other than the deep routes that are already on the sideline).

Not that this is the only play in the book .... but it does illustrate my earlier point , in multiple threads , that they don't do much up with the deep / intermediate routes between the hash marks , space that TE's often occupy and that are a staple of the NE passing attack.
You're right in that this is just 1 play where the routes don't feature straight down the middle routes, but I have seen Gronk run up the hash marks on TDs or long gains. What I do find funny is that the articles says, "It’s easier for the players to learn. It’s easier for the quarterback to learn". Hmm...no need to go into what comes next :fingergun:
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Not at all ... What I'm stating is that while Fitzpatrick sucks .... so does this scheme. Its very rudimentary as far as NFL offenses go. It also ignores routes that attack the middle of the field .... and doesn't take advantage of the strengths of some players - Particularly:

Arian Foster with the lack of play action.
A TE who has proven the ability to produce in Graham.
Doesn't attack the middle of the field allowing defenses to largely ignore defending it concentrating their efforts outside.
What I'm saying is that you're attributing something to the scheme that's not attributable to the scheme. It's not the scheme that's not attacking the middle of the field. The Patriots use this same offense and they use their TEs and they attack the middle of the field.

I think it's more of a problem with what Fitzpatrick is comfortable with and what Fitzpatrick chooses to go after.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
What I'm saying is that you're attributing something to the scheme that's not attributable to the scheme. It's not the scheme that's not attacking the middle of the field. The Patriots use this same offense and they use their TEs and they attack the middle of the field.

I think it's more of a problem with what Fitzpatrick is comfortable with and what Fitzpatrick chooses to go after.
There's different ways of calling the "same" offense. When was the last time you saw a TE running 20 yds down the seam?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I think it's more of a problem with what Fitzpatrick is comfortable with and what Fitzpatrick chooses to go after.
Have you watched Fitz in the past ?

I recall the a game he played against the Texans where he carved them up with deep to intermediate routes in the middle of the field - as a rookie.

He threw quite a few balls up the seams with the Bills.

He also utilized the TE's in Buffalo (2012 stats) Scott Chandler caught 43 balls from him and Dorin Dickerson 9.

Delanie Walker caught 60 balls last season (2013) for the Tinbreds with Fitz (and Locker) at QB.


13 catches for the TE's thru 6 games .....
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Have you watched Fitz in the past ?

I recall the a game he played against the Texans where he carved them up with deep to intermediate routes in the middle of the field - as a rookie.

He threw quite a few balls up the seams with the Bills.

He also utilized the TE's in Buffalo (2012 stats) Scott Chandler caught 43 balls from him and Dorin Dickerson 9.

Delanie Walker caught 60 balls last season (2013) for the Tinbreds with Fitz (and Locker) at QB.


13 catches for the TE's thru 6 games .....
How often do TE's even go out in this offense to date? Are they staying in to block or running routes and can't get open, or get open and fitz don't find them?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
There's different ways of calling the "same" offense. When was the last time you saw a TE running 20 yds down the seam?
I cant recall one time this season .... which is kinda funny because when OB was hired , many thought we'd see quite a bit of that .... since he runs the NE offense.

Graham didn't all the sudden forget how to catch or get open ...


How often do TE's even go out in this offense to date? Are they staying in to block or running routes and can't get open, or get open and fitz don't find them?
I don't know the percentages of routes run on pass plays .... I'm sure one of the stat guru's like Playoffs could locate that ....

What I do know is what I see them doing on all22 when they are running routes - Everything is short or breaks to the outside.

That means they are likely matched up with an LBer who matches up better with them rather than a smaller safety .... that they have a significant size advantage over.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
There's different ways of calling the "same" offense. When was the last time you saw a TE running 20 yds down the seam?
In THIS offense, whose choice is that? Who is it that's supposed to read the defense and tell the TE to run 20 yards down the seam?

That route is in the playbook.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
In THIS offense, whose choice is that? Who is it that's supposed to read the defense and tell the TE to run 20 yards down the seam?

That route is in the playbook.
It's guesswork but I'm assuming the HC would tell his QB to call different routes if he didn't like what was being called. Which gets us back to the HC. And he isn't changing QBs which would seem to indicate happiness with the play calling. Again, back to the HC.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
It's guesswork but I'm assuming the HC would tell his QB to call different routes if he didn't like what was being called. Which gets us back to the HC. And he isn't changing QBs which would seem to indicate happiness with the play calling. Again, back to the HC.
So. It's not a problem with the routes that exist in the offense. It's not a problem with the offense, itself.

It's a problem with HC for either
a) not getting the QB prepared so that he can call the right route combinations to take advantage of the defense
b) not pulling the QB and putting someone else in who may be able to call the right route combinations

I've got no problem placing the blame for our lack of offensive production at OB's feet.

But.

Blaming this offense for being non-creative and not attacking the middle of the field is like blaming Kubiak's offense for not allowing Schaub to audible. In Kubiak's offense, Schaub didn't have to audible because the play design was supposed to react to whatever the defense was doing. In this offense, that creativity is not in the play's initial design but it's ability to react to the defense based on the QB's ability to make the read and then change the route combinations.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
So. It's not a problem with the routes that exist in the offense. It's not a problem with the offense, itself.

It's a problem with HC for either
a) not getting the QB prepared so that he can call the right route combinations to take advantage of the defense
b) not pulling the QB and putting someone else in who may be able to call the right route combinations

I've got no problem placing the blame for our lack of offensive production at OB's feet.

But.

Blaming this offense for being non-creative and not attacking the middle of the field is like blaming Kubiak's offense for not allowing Schaub to audible. In Kubiak's offense, Schaub didn't have to audible because the play design was supposed to react to whatever the defense was doing. In this offense, that creativity is not in the play's initial design but it's ability to react to the defense based on the QB's ability to make the read and then change the route combinations.
whatever it is, 11 guys and the coaching staff don't get it together until it's OH CRAP time
 

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
Have you watched Fitz in the past ?

I recall the a game he played against the Texans where he carved them up with deep to intermediate routes in the middle of the field - as a rookie.
And again with another team.... Dude beat us with two different teams. Rams and Bills?? IIRC???
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
And again with another team.... Dude beat us with two different teams. Rams and Bills?? IIRC???
Yeah he did, but he ain't playing like that FOR us...



hell, he ain't even playing as good as he did last year for the tinnbreds in hickhollow
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
And again with another team.... Dude beat us with two different teams. Rams and Bills?? IIRC???
Yeah , chucking it all over the field (and to the wrong color jersey).

Yeah he did, but he ain't playing like that FOR us...



hell, he ain't even playing as good as he did last year for the tinnbreds in hickhollow

I've watched Fitz many times over the years , and this is far from what I expected. Dude is know as a gunslinger (Think of a crappy version of Favre) who's prone to make big plays or big mistakes.
I really think OB has him handcuffed to limit those mistakes & let the running game / defense do the work.

Throwing over the middle of the field can lead to those mistakes .... Part of that handcuffing is limiting his throws over the middle .... which wouldn't bother me if the offense wasn't so damn stagnant to begin with.


As for Fitz having the ability to "get them in the right play" .... Yeah , he has some freedom to do that at the line.
But every route is not available to each specific play because of the way routes interact with each other. In general , he's not changing the entire route grouping but a single route within that grouping to exploit or avoid specific situations.


Fitz has used those routes and heavy TE usage in the past with multiple teams , he's not doing it here. WHY?! (Fitz & Scott Chandler highlights)

If Fitz wasn't doing what OB told him to do .... he'd likely be holding the clip board. Or the media would be all over it.

To be honest , I'm tired of arguing about it .... All I know is what I see and I don't see them utilizing those type of routes and I have multiple reasons to believe its on the playcaller.

Lets forget about the middle of the field and TE play ..... where's the play action ?! Foster is a weapon .... why not exploit that ??
And why isn't there a check down option for the QB to dump the ball off to when his first & second reads are not there??

Fitz is hot garbage .... But I don't think this scheme is helping him be the best hot garbage he can be.
 

speedfreek

All Pro
this offense is simple, predictable, and basically ineffective.

t's "give the ball to Arian" and hope it works out..

#28 pass yds/game
#21 pts/game

but

#10 rush yds/game

NY was without Foster, and we had a fairly bad rushing game.
NY isn't a world beater either, they just got pantsed by a truly creative
offense when they played philly.

Twice now our opponents have gotten out to multiple score leads -
yes, we rallied, but that happens when the other team takes their
foot off the gas for a while..

BoB needs to hire a legit OC that has the same philosophy but can
be more innovative
 

amazing80

Hall of Fame
Yeah , chucking it all over the field (and to the wrong color jersey).




I've watched Fitz many times over the years , and this is far from what I expected. Dude is know as a gunslinger (Think of a crappy version of Favre) who's prone to make big plays or big mistakes.
I really think OB has him handcuffed to limit those mistakes & let the running game / defense do the work.

Throwing over the middle of the field can lead to those mistakes .... Part of that handcuffing is limiting his throws over the middle .... which wouldn't bother me if the offense wasn't so damn stagnant to begin with.


As for Fitz having the ability to "get them in the right play" .... Yeah , he has some freedom to do that at the line.
But every route is not available to each specific play because of the way routes interact with each other. In general , he's not changing the entire route grouping but a single route within that grouping to exploit or avoid specific situations.


Fitz has used those routes and heavy TE usage in the past with multiple teams , he's not doing it here. WHY?! (Fitz & Scott Chandler highlights)

If Fitz wasn't doing what OB told him to do .... he'd likely be holding the clip board. Or the media would be all over it.

To be honest , I'm tired of arguing about it .... All I know is what I see and I don't see them utilizing those type of routes and I have multiple reasons to believe its on the playcaller.

Lets forget about the middle of the field and TE play ..... where's the play action ?! Foster is a weapon .... why not exploit that ??
And why isn't there a check down option for the QB to dump the ball off to when his first & second reads are not there??

Fitz is hot garbage .... But I don't think this scheme is helping him be the best hot garbage he can be.

I am less interested in how many times he threw to chandler and more interested in how many times he would progress through his reads past chandler. Chandler is like our Andre or Hopkins. The first or second read. Stevie May have been the first. His problem is not progressing his reads and when he tries he is slow as hell at it. And for play action, why call it? His fakes are the worst I have ever seen in my life.
 
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