Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Do people still believe we will have a KC type turnaround next year?

speedfreek

speedfreek

All Pro
Before the Obrien hire I thought chances of that were slim
at best.

After saturday, I find it impossible to believe this team has
a winning record next year when the entire coaching staff is
turned over.

When I think of how many players will have to be brough in,
and how many will be playing at new positions (or in totally
different schemes) --

I think 6-10 would be a good start..
 
speedfreek said:
Before the Obrien hire I thought chances of that were slim
at best.

After saturday, I find it impossible to believe this team has
a winning record next year when the entire coaching staff is
turned over.

When I think of how many players will have to be brough in,
and how many will be playing at new positions (or in totally
different schemes) --

I think 6-10 would be a good start..
Click to expand...

I think the Texans will have a last place schedule with a better team .
 
I don't know, but we did have a few KC-like second halves this season...

That said, if the team stays healthy and believes in the coaching staff, and if the QB situation can be at least upgraded to "league average" I wouldn't think 8-8 is out of the question, especially with the weaker schedule of a last place team. Though in reality I think 6-10 is probably more in the ballpark.
 
No.

Steep learning curve at QB and for WRs.

I expect a better second half as they get their timing down.

And I think we need to draft some team leaders.
 
I think it's entirely possible for this team to make it to the playoffs. It will depend a great deal on how good of a coach O'Brien is. We'll have the #1 pick and the easiest schedule so there's no reason to say that 6-10 is the most we can hope for next year. If we do go 6-10, then we are in for another era of mediocrity.
 
I think we need:

A stud NT
A good OLB
A good RT
A stud QB
some depth here and there

If we can get that, I believe in the KC type turnaround. We have major talent on the team (a star WR, LT, HB is a good start. Our C, FB, TEs and second WR ain`t half bad either. On defense we have the best player in the NFL, a great ILB, and despite popular believe a pretty good secondary). Even last seasons team should`ve been in the playoffs if it weren`t for a major meltdown at QB and a clueless coaching staff - the talent was there.

Will we make the playoffs? A lot will be riding on the new QB. If we get a really good one, I´d say yeah, we do.
 
speedfreek said:
Before the Obrien hire I thought chances of that were slim
at best.

After saturday, I find it impossible to believe this team has
a winning record next year when the entire coaching staff is
turned over.

When I think of how many players will have to be brough in,
and how many will be playing at new positions (or in totally
different schemes) --

I think 6-10 would be a good start..
Click to expand...

I always laugh at the notion many of you have at the idea that a new coaching staff can't transform a team in one to two seasons. Its like you refuse to pay attention to the NFL, because it happens pretty much every other season. Hell, were you under a rock when the Texans changed to Wade Phillips on defense? They changed the entire scheme and went from the worst D in the league to being a top 5 unit over night. And even with that happening on the team you allegedly follow, you are completely against the idea that something like that could happen again. Its strange. The Colts went from the worst team in the league to becoming a playoff contender over night. The Chiefs just did this season.

No one is assuming that it will happen, but the Texans have a lot of pieces in place for it to take place.
 
This team lost 9 games by 7 points or less. They created the fewest turnovers in the history of the NFL. I don't understand why people think we're the Cleveland Browns all of a sudden. Better QB play, force some turnovers, eat into that -20 turnover ratio and get that on the plus side at the very least, keep some people healthy, and the Texans compete for the playoffs in 2014.

KC was a -24 in turnover ratio in 2012. They were an AFC best +18 this season. That makes a difference. You think Alex Smith is better than Schaub was in his prime? The answer would be 'hell no' in case you didn't know or were leaning towards yes.

The Texans have to improve at QB, first and foremost. That means they've got to knock it out of the park with this draft. The play at QB has to improve, that's where it starts.

I realize it's more of a luck issue when it comes to injuries, but we've got to hope the key players stay healthy. KC would not have made the playoffs without their Arian Foster (Charles) this season.

This is not a long term 2-3 year project. The turnaround can be just as quick this year to next as it was last year to this. Better coaching (in-game adjustments), better play at QB, some luck healthwise, and turnovers. That's how you get back, that's how you go from 2-14 to the tournament - next year. They were 10-12 plays away this year. Make those plays.
 
Nope I don't even think we are even going to make the playoffs next year

and since Rick smith sucks at the draft sucks at picking F/a and sucks at cap management decesions we are not going anywhere

2014 we can only hope at best 8-8 then bob will fire Rick and well I guess 2015 will be the year I would hope cus in 2015 the SB is in Houston
 
Norg said:
Nope I don't even think we are even going to make the playoffs next year

and since Rick smith sucks at the draft sucks at picking F/a and sucks at cap management decesions we are not going anywhere

2014 we can only hope at best 8-8 then bob will fire Rick and well I guess 2015 will be the year I would hope cus in 2015 the SB is in Houston
Click to expand...

Guarantee you Rick Smith won't be fired next season.
 
We hired a "slightly" above average PSU coach with no NFL head coaching
experience who fired the entire staff without any serious evaluation
at all. (unless he can warp time and evaluate everyone in less than
a week)

KC hired a superbowl coach with multiple NFC championship appearances.
(who already had relationships with NFL calibre assistants)

There are reports that some of our assistants may come from the
college ranks.

No transformation of the type you assume will happen are forthcoming.

By the way, KC was loaded with talent everywhere. Their remaining
weak spot was at QB (smith). We assume that by drafting a QB
we turn everything around?

If so, we are doing it exactly the opposite of how KC did it..

Texecutioner said:
I always laugh at the notion many of you have at the idea that a new coaching staff can't transform a team in one to two seasons. Its like you refuse to pay attention to the NFL
Click to expand...
 
The biggest issues we had this year, coaching and QB are gone. I think we can turn it around the same way KC did. Bring in a veteran QB and draft a good prospect to learn behind him. Use the other picks and free agency to fill the right holes and we can absolutely turn this into a playoff team. I am on board with O'Brien, he seems like the real deal. Still not sold on Rick, so I am nervous about the draft, but will wait and see.
 
Let me respond to your thread this way. This O'brien guy seems to be the direct type, you know, no suger coating or any of that. So maybe he needs to sit his boss Bob Mcnair down right now and explain to him that this team has lots of issues in terms of various positions that need to be staffed with competent
NFL players. And we don't know the half of it right now, because we will see a ton more guys leaving during free agency which will mean even more holes to fill througout the depth chart. But it's time for that talk between Bill & Bob.
 
speedfreek said:
Before the Obrien hire I thought chances of that were slim
at best.

After saturday, I find it impossible to believe this team has
a winning record next year when the entire coaching staff is
turned over.

When I think of how many players will have to be brough in,
and how many will be playing at new positions (or in totally
different schemes) --

I think 6-10 would be a good start..
Click to expand...

I don't just believe it's possible. I expect it. Maybe with the kind of mentality that Gary brought for 8 years a 6-10 "recovery season" might be needed before we move up to an 8-8 pr 9-7 year but I don't think that kind of timetable is in play now.

Teams can turn around their fortunes in short order these days. the Texans should be no different. Now having said that lots of things can conspire to prevent success so an injury bug attack could derail that but the Texans are going to make their moves and they're going to take their best shot. I like their chances. I wish Indianapolis had lost yesterday because that team is building confidence which will stand in our way. It's definitely going to be an obstacle.

Keep in mind though that since they went 2-14 they've posted a pair of 11-5 seasons with a roster that many characterized as very underwhelming.... until it wasn't. They had huge turnover along the way and an MIA head coach who was fighting Leukemia.

Last year Kansas City was 2-14 and this year, 11-5. Saints were 3-13 in Haslett's last year. Bring in Sean Payton and Brees and you got success.

Teams turn themselves around in a season or two all the friggin time. Why not us? I'd say its because of Gary stumbling along learning to be a HC and never quite grasping some of the tougher parts of the job like firing friends who aren't getting the job done. Gary did great things for the Houston Texans. He also did a lot of damage to the Houston Texans. It's hard to reconcile both of those things but there it is.
 
Texecutioner said:
I always laugh at the notion many of you have at the idea that a new coaching staff can't transform a team in one to two seasons. Its like you refuse to pay attention to the NFL, because it happens pretty much every other season. Hell, were you under a rock when the Texans changed to Wade Phillips on defense? They changed the entire scheme and went from the worst D in the league to being a top 5 unit over night. And even with that happening on the team you allegedly follow, you are completely against the idea that something like that could happen again. Its strange. The Colts went from the worst team in the league to becoming a playoff contender over night. The Chiefs just did this season.



No one is assuming that it will happen, but the Texans have a lot of pieces in place for it to take place.
Click to expand...


Agree with a lot of this. I've often said that it almost seems like Texans fans live in a bubble and don't follow the NFL. There's this this team called Philly that made it and they have a first year coach.

The playoffs next year will be an uphill climb, but it's do-able. We could squeak in as a wild card.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
speedfreek said:
We hired a "slightly" above average PSU coach with no NFL head coaching
experience who fired the entire staff without any serious evaluation
at all. (unless he can warp time and evaluate everyone in less than
a week)

KC hired a superbowl coach with multiple NFC championship appearances.
(who already had relationships with NFL calibre assistants)

There are reports that some of our assistants may come from the
college ranks.

No transformation of the type you assume will happen are forthcoming.

By the way, KC was loaded with talent everywhere. Their remaining
weak spot was at QB (smith). We assume that by drafting a QB
we turn everything around?

If so, we are doing it exactly the opposite of how KC did it..
Click to expand...

All of KC's talent meant nothing until they produced. We've got players on this team who have produced and then stopped producing. Until I see them continue ti fail to produce in a different system I'm not going to assume that we have no talent.

Most NFL assistants spent time in the college ranks. I'm not worried about where our assistants come from, just what they do. If he brings Crennel in as DC that's a quality hire. If he brings a guy from Penn State in who he taught the Patriots offensive system and saw that guy get it then I have no problem with that hire.

In other words I'm not going to start complaining about his assistants until they give me something to complain about.
 
Hervoyel said:
All of KC's talent meant nothing until they produced. We've got players on this team who have produced and then stopped producing. Until I see them continue ti fail to produce in a different system I'm not going to assume that we have no talent.

Most NFL assistants spent time in the college ranks. I'm not worried about where our assistants come from, just what they do. If he brings Crennel in as DC that's a quality hire. If he brings a guy from Penn State in who he taught the Patriots offensive system and saw that guy get it then I have no problem with that hire.

In other words I'm not going to start complaining about his assistants until they give me something to complain about.
Click to expand...


Agree. Also, O'Brien strikes me as someone who would not hesitate to fire an assistant mid-season if things got rough. With Kubiak, we were stuck with bad assistants for years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
speedfreek said:
We hired a "slightly" above average PSU coach with no NFL head coaching

experience who fired the entire staff without any serious evaluation

at all. (unless he can warp time and evaluate everyone in less than

a week)



KC hired a superbowl coach with multiple NFC championship appearances.

(who already had relationships with NFL calibre assistants)



There are reports that some of our assistants may come from the

college ranks.



No transformation of the type you assume will happen are forthcoming.



By the way, KC was loaded with talent everywhere. Their remaining

weak spot was at QB (smith). We assume that by drafting a QB

we turn everything around?



If so, we are doing it exactly the opposite of how KC did it..
Click to expand...


In contrast to your example of a Super Bowl coach taking over a team and leading it to a winning record, that same coach left Philly with a losing record, and that team was turned around by a college coach with no NFL head coaching experience and made the playoffs.
 
Texecutioner said:
Guarantee you Rick Smith won't be fired next season.
Click to expand...

after capers was fired we kept Casserly for 6 more months till after the draft then fired him in like june


I think rick is deff on the hot seat esp if he does not Kill this draft and these players contracts etc

I cant see how u can have so much confidence that he will be here in 2015 ..????
 
I think we'll do better than 2-14. But after so many **** overs by the Oilers and Texans, I ain't getting my hopes up. But I'll be there on Sunday cheering them on anyway, it's what I do.
 
I think we have a better chance of a superbowl in the next 5 years if we fix the QB situation with a top prospect now.

I look at the chiefs and the bengals, the bengals tool Dalton a bit later on and whilst they make the playoffs every year, he holds them back from progressing, the chiefs took smith and I think he likely has the same limiting factor in today's NFL.

Of course there's the time it'll take for a young guy to fit in (if at all), but get a vet for the time being in case he isn't ready and play the slow game.

I think the players this team has lost the last 3 years were underrated, and whilst you can't afford to pay them all, you also can afford not to replace them.
 
Who are these veteran QBs you speak of who a young guy can learn behind while still doing the job well?

Michael Vick
Chad Henne
Josh Freeman
Shaun Hill
Charlie Whitehurst
David Garrard
Rex Grossman
Jon Kitna
Dan Orlovsky
Kellen Clemens
Josh McCown
Seneca Wallace
Luke McCown
Derek Anderson
Tarvaris Jackson
Jimmy Clausen
Matt Flynn
Trent Edwards
Brady Quinn
Jordan Palmer
Colt McCoy
Curtis Painter
Rusty Smith
Joe Webb
Case Keenum
TJ Yates
Vince Young
Jamarcus Russell
Matt Cassel

:toropalm:
 
EVOLVIST said:
Who are these veteran QBs you speak of who a young guy can learn behind while still doing the job well?

Michael Vick
Chad Henne
Josh Freeman
Shaun Hill
Charlie Whitehurst
David Garrard
Rex Grossman
Jon Kitna
Dan Orlovsky
Kellen Clemens
Josh McCown
Seneca Wallace
Luke McCown
Derek Anderson
Tarvaris Jackson
Jimmy Clausen
Matt Flynn
Trent Edwards
Brady Quinn
Jordan Palmer
Colt McCoy
Curtis Painter
Rusty Smith
Joe Webb
Case Keenum
TJ Yates
Vince Young
Jamarcus Russell
Matt Cassel

:toropalm:
Click to expand...

This sums it up. If we aren't drafting a QB no.1 overall then we are sticking with Keenum.
 
Too many holes on this team because Rick Smith sucks. I have no faith in him getting the personnel to field a winning team next season. I don't know what McNair is smoking when he said we had the most talented team this season.
 
EVOLVIST said:
Who are these veteran QBs you speak of who a young guy can learn behind while still doing the job well?

Michael Vick
Chad Henne
Josh Freeman
Shaun Hill
Charlie Whitehurst
David Garrard
Rex Grossman
Jon Kitna
Dan Orlovsky
Kellen Clemens
Josh McCown
Seneca Wallace
Luke McCown
Derek Anderson
Tarvaris Jackson
Jimmy Clausen
Matt Flynn
Trent Edwards
Brady Quinn
Jordan Palmer
Colt McCoy
Curtis Painter
Rusty Smith
Joe Webb
Case Keenum
TJ Yates
Vince Young
Jamarcus Russell
Matt Cassel

:toropalm:
Click to expand...

I'm not expecting a pro bowler, and in fact if we do work enough cap to go out and be a player in FA, I'd prefer to see it spent on stop-gap starters on D so that that unit can grow and develop some young draft picks in time for the JJ watt contract.

I think a guy like chad henne, Kyle Orton, David garrard or Matt cassell are the type of guys to go for, cheap as hell, and rather than expecting some kind of huge veteran leadership, more a guy we can throw out there to ensure that if our rookie QB of the future truly is not ready to be on the field, the coaches have the time to coach him up rather than allowing him to become shellshocked "damaged goods" by being on the field when not ready, it's hard to recover from that situation as a young QB.

If our top level draftee isn't ready, we can pretty much assume it will be reflected in our record whatever happens. Just stick a warm body out there rather than ruining the guy from the off.

The four guys I mention all have plenty of starting experience in the NFL, they aren't going to win you a championship but they should be capable of keeping things respectable.
 
I think we're two solid drafts away from being a double-digit winning team. There is not as much talent on this team as people think, and our depth is truly lacking...look who we had starting in the DB corps at the end of the year and tell me we have good depth.

I don't think we're only a 6 win team next year, but 9-7 is possible given the weak sauce schedule we face. As a unit, I'm most concerned about the defense. Obviously, we can't put all the defensive struggles on losing Cushing...that's what talent and depth help you cope with, and we don't have a ton on that side of the ball.
 
I have no expectations because it's just a bit too early for any to really be built. Do I think they can do it? Yes, I don't see why not. As I type this I am watching the Chargers with a new coach who never was a head coach in the NFL playing a strong game on the road. Oh and he fired the staff. Most new head coaches do exactly that. It's nothing new nor surprising. If you need leftovers to help you evaluate the talent on the team then you have the wrong job. O'Brien shouldn't need a single coach from last year to help him in that aspect. Basically all head coaches choose their own guys.

Not to mention Chip Kelly got the Eagles in as well and of course the team mentioned, the Chiefs. In this league it is possible because this is not the league we (well some of us) grew up with where you're looking at 3 years minimum to get back on your feet. There are is always someone new in the playoffs and someone/s that have turned their season over in one year. It's been done time and time again for the last handful of years. So wouldn't be overly surprising if it happened here when you have a handful of all-pros already on roster.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I believe this team can have a KC like turnaround. This team has the same talent level that won them 12 games last year. If we get a franchise caliber QB in the draft we could easily be back in the playoffs next year.
 
Yes. Most losses this year were due to coaching and an injured roster.

I can easily see us back in the playoffs next year.
 
It's difficult to say how next year will turn out. A lot of players had down years or were injured. Can they bounce back to form or are they pretty much done?

Without injuries, this team was a lot better than a 2-14 team. So if they're healthy next year, even without adding anyone, I think they're at least 6-10. Bring in a new QB who can run the show and a RT to protect him and the offense should be top 10 again. Defense is all down to how well guys who were injured or underperformed bounce back. If everyone gets back to form, the defense should be top 10 too.

On the flip side, everything could go the other way with more regression and injuries and we end up worse than 2013.
 
I don't think 2014 can be worse than this year.

Besides, we're in a division with Jacksonville and Tennessee. Honestly, there is no excuse for losing any of those four games so losing them this year was just mindblowing. Of course, as we saw this year, anything and everything can happen in football. I'm not even that impressed with the Colts overall outside of Luck. They're beatable too. We were beating their asses on Sunday night before the ridiculousness set in.
 
Depends on what we do in the draft and how we fill potential holes that this team will develop.

If Antonio Smith is gone like many believe, we need to find his replacement, whether we go 4-3 or not. Crick, McClain and Jaimson are not likely to be the guys playing 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT based on what I've seen of them this season and last, although McClain has potential. Jonathan Jospeh if gone, leaves only one good CB on the roster. Wade Smith is gone but who do we really replaceme him with, Ben Jones (who wasn't exactly great at LG this season when he came in on some plays) or Quessenberry who is basically a rookie.

KC managed to keep a lot of its talent defensively around, depending on how the defense changes under its new DC they may not be the strength everyone is thinking they could be.
 
I have thought Kubiak's coaching held this team back most years. The Texans also had some close losses last year that small improvements may have turned into wins. Therefore, I think O'brien has a great opportunity to effect a big turnaround.

I don't know much about him as a coach, but I expect him to rise to the challenge. Mark me down as expecting a large increase in wins.
 
Free agency hasn't begun. The draft is months away. But we know what the 2014 record will be.

OK.
 
I'll reserve my predictions and judgement until we are through with the draft and free agency. This team and organization might not be in a "win-now" mode. Maybe Rick and BOB can convince McNair that they need a mediocre/down season to cleanse the roster before making those big strides. It will all come down to how they approach the current roster (trades/cuts/letting players walk) and what they do to address those needs.

We have a long offseason ahead of us, no need to jump to conclusions in January.
 
As I said prior to the coaching hire, I expect us to go at best 6-10 next year. I think it's entirely possible for us to do even worse than 2-14 although I'd be surprised.

But.

For me and the way I look at life and living, I'm going to throw my objective pessimism to the side now that we have a head coach. I'm a Sunshiner by nature. I'll try to look at every move we make this off-season and I'll try to put a positive spin on it. I'll go into next year hoping that all those moves we've made were the right ones and that we're going to have a KC like turn-around.

But I've been a Houston football fan since the late 60's. Deep in my heart of hearts, I'm seeing a lot of negatives:

1. Why not clean house entirely and hire another GM?
2. Why hire a coach from the Belichick tree of failure?
3. What has O'Brien done as a coach... tell Tom Brady what to do and keep a college team from totally imploding?
4. We have no QB and the odds of us drafting a superstar franchise QB are pretty slim.
5. How much revamping does our O-Line need?
6. How much revamping does our front 7 on defense need?
7. Can we do 5 and 6 in one offseason?
8. How much longer can Arian and Andre perform at an all-pro level and are they already done?
9. Do we need to totally re-tool our secondary?
10. After so many years of drafting TEs, do we need to draft some more TEs?
11. If we get Crennel, should we be worried about his scheme and should we be worried that he's only had a top 10 defense when he was at New England?

Do I believe we can have a KC type of turnaround? Screw that. I want a better turn around than that. I don't want to show up to the playoffs and then lose. I want to at least get to the AFC Championship.

I like Bill O'Brien's demeanor and I think what he did at Penn State was pretty impressive. I think that he at least had a hand in engineering some cool innovations (Gronk/Hernandez, uptempo, quick-strike, etc.) when he was with New England (even if he DID have Brady to pull the trigger and make it work.)

I think we do have enough talent that some good coaches should be able to patch SOMETHING together that at least gets us to the playoffs. And I'm going to hope that these are some good coaches.
 
considering how bad the AFC south is and the AFC in general isn't that good. plus the possibility of a pretty weak schedule i don't see any issues with us at least going 8-8, ideally at best we are looking at a 9-7 10-6 record. but like another poster said i will wait for FA and the draft to make a concrete prediction
 
Yes, people still believe. I believe and I'm not the only one and I'll keep believing until I'm proven wrong.

You say he fired the entire coaching staff without enough evaluation. Are you kidding me?

Allow me to break it down. Our OC and DC were about yards between the 20s. We were horrible in the red zone on both sides and this past year just made it more glaring. Our turnover differential was one of the worse if not the worst in the league. None of the coaches got the most out of their players.

Kubiak and Dennison are supposed to be great offensive minds, but the best they could come up with was Schaub and every time they had a chance to bring in real competition they didn't because they were loyal to a fault. So the drop off from him to his back-ups should not have been surprising. Any coaching staff that kept trotting out Newton as a lineman after his performance deserves to be fired.

I saw someone vouch for Vance Joseph and I don't hate to say it, but our secondary blew. No matter how much pressure we put on the opposing QB they were always able to find the open receiver in key situations. There was no discipline. Our penalties on both sides, but especially on defense, cost us games.

The only gain from further evaluation of our previous coaching staff would've netted was seeing just how bad they were.

We need 2 QBs a FA QB for depth and a stud from the draft. We need a NT and back up. Those are the only real critical additions we need. Please keep in mind not every position needs to be a stud.

According to the rumors floating around we are targeting Romeo Crennel for our DC position. This would keep our scheme on D and would only be a change in philosophy. We had the number 1 defense in the league last year yard wise. I doubt a change of philosophy would hurt us.

Bo'B is an offensive mind so I trust him to do what's needed on offense. Why do I trust him? Because he's already shown to be decisive in releasing the people responsible for our past failures. He's pointed the Texans to a competent DC. I don't give a flying f_ck if it's through the good ole boy network it's a credible professional who I would have wanted targeted regardless of if they knew each other or not. Because when he says he'll hold people accountable... I believe him, and that belief is not unfounded.

Obviously it's not important if I believe, but it is important that the players believe and from what I've gathered of his history his players have believed him. Our guys want to believe they want to win I can't speak for all, really any, of the players, but that's the vibe I get.

So there you go. I'm a believer. I believe, expect, and foretell with conviction that we will have a turnaround. Will we make the play-offs? Dunno. Will we have double digit wins? Dunno. Can we expect both? You bet your ass we can!
 
I don't think bob will be an outstanding coach but may be an adequate one. I hope he doesn't follow a pattern; McNair picked 2 bad coaches before him. There are bad memories of the Oilers, whose owner never could select a decent coach but insisted on making that decision himself.
 
Seegara said:
I don't think bob will be an outstanding coach but may be an adequate one. I hope he doesn't follow a pattern; McNair picked 2 bad coaches before him. There are bad memories of the Oilers, whose owner never could select a decent coach but insisted on making that decision himself.
Click to expand...

Bob who? :thinking:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top