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Trade Away AJ this off-season?

dalemurphy

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.

Assuming this is accurate, I'm interested in your thoughts on this possibility. Given the wide range of views regarding the team's current cap health, talent level, etc... I'm interested in simply reading the various thoughts on this idea.

I'm not sure what I think. Clearly, a lot will depend on the new coaching staff and the direction the coach wants to move... and also on AJ's attitude towards the forth-coming changes. Also, given that we will likely cut or trade OD this off-season for $6 million in cap savings, would moving AJ also be detrimental to the develop of a rookie QB's development? Or, perhaps it is a good idea to have WRs and a young QB develop together instead of a rookie QB being awestruck and over-dependent upon an All-pro veteran. I'm not sure.

How would other veterans perceive this move? Do we care? Will winning next season be a primary goal in the off-season or will 2014 be viewed as a reset?

Thoughts?
 
No

I want to and expect to see him retire a Texan
 
dalemurphy said:
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.

Assuming this is accurate, I'm interested in your thoughts on this possibility. Given the wide range of views regarding the team's current cap health, talent level, etc... I'm interested in simply reading the various thoughts on this idea.

I'm not sure what I think. Clearly, a lot will depend on the new coaching staff and the direction the coach wants to move... and also on AJ's attitude towards the forth-coming changes. Also, given that we will likely cut or trade OD this off-season for $6 million in cap savings, would moving AJ also be detrimental to the develop of a rookie QB's development? Or, perhaps it is a good idea to have WRs and a young QB develop together instead of a rookie QB being awestruck and over-dependent upon an All-pro veteran. I'm not sure.

How would other veterans perceive this move? Do we care? Will winning next season be a primary goal in the off-season or will 2014 be viewed as a reset?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Not interested, myself. He's too valuable to lose. On pace for yet another 100 catch 1500 rec. yard season when he's supposed to be "aging". His mentoring will prove to be a huge advantage for these younger WRs development. Specifically Deandre as I don't think he is quite ready to take on lead WR duties.

There are three players on this team that are completely off limits to trades/cuts for whatever reason:

1. JJ Watt
2. Andre Johnson
3. Duane Brown

Everyone else is negotiable. Yes, even Cushing.

Andre needs to retire a Texan and have his number retired when he leaves.
 
No, prevailing thought throughout the league is the Texans aren't your typical team looking to rebuild and Andre is a big part of the reason why. Come back next year with a healthy Cushing, Foster and hopefully an upgrade at QB and they should be ready to contend again.
 
2slik4u said:
Not interested, myself. He's too valuable to lose. On pace for yet another 100 catch 1500 rec. yard season when he's supposed to be "aging". His mentoring will prove to be a huge advantage for these younger WRs development. Specifically Deandre as I don't think he is quite ready to take on lead WR duties.

There are three players on this team that are completely off limits to trades/cuts for whatever reason:

1. JJ Watt
2. Andre Johnson
3. Duane Brown

Everyone else is negotiable. Yes, even Cushing.

Andre needs to retire a Texan and have his number retired when he leaves.
Click to expand...

I thought I was the only one who could do without Cushing. Totally agree with you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
dalemurphy said:
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify. Yes you could move him with no cap hit. No you won't save 12 million on the cap. You save 180k.

And I'm in the group that wants Johnson to retire as a Texan.
 
houstonspartan said:
I thought I was the only one who could do without Cushing. Totally agree with you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yeah...it's not because he isn't good. In fact, when on the field and 100% he is one of the most dominant MLB's I the league. Covers the pass, all over the field. He has all the tools.

The problem is he's only played two full seasons out of his five year career. Whether it's injuries or overtrained athlete syndrome, were just not getting the "hours in the office" we need.

For the record - our defense is a completely different when he is on the field...in a good way. On the other hand we miss him dearly when he's not there. Not sure if that is Wades fault for not preparing the rest of the defense and relying too heavily on Cush or if it's Rick Smiths for not drafting players correctly or what but his presence is noticed greatly.

I'm not saying cut him by any means but if put against the other three I listed earlier there is no question.
 
If we want to have a quick turn around like Bob and everyone else wants then we will need Dre, especially if we have a rookie QB. the rookie QB will need a safety valve, someone he can trust to make a play on the ball and Hopkins is definatley not that guy at this point in his career. I see Dre being in similar situation as Reggie Wayne when they drafted Luck
 
jaayteetx said:
No, prevailing thought throughout the league is the Texans aren't your typical team looking to rebuild and Andre is a big part of the reason why. Come back next year with a healthy Cushing, Foster and hopefully an upgrade at QB and they should be ready to contend again.
Click to expand...

I think you may be overestimating the talent on our squad. There's not a ton of talent or depth on this team other than the people you mentioned. I don't think next year is a KC-like turnaround. This is a 2-3 project for the next coach.
 
Exascor said:
Just to clarify. Yes you could move him with no cap hit. No you won't save 12 million on the cap. You save 180k.

And I'm in the group that wants Johnson to retire as a Texan.
Click to expand...

Is that because of incentives? Sorry, not a cap expert. Please explain how we won't be gigged the $11mil+ and will only save $180k?
 
Thorn said:
Why would anyone want to trade away one of the best receivers in the league?
Click to expand...

To redesign the cap structure and roster of a team who is rebuilding. I'm not arguing that it should happen, but I think it is something to consider, particularly for those who think this is a 2 or 3 year rebuilding project. What could the Texans get in trade for AJ? Let's just say they can get a late 1st round pick and then a 2015 conditional pick (2nd or 3rd)... Factor the additional draft picks with the $10+ million in cap savings and the team could immediately and significantly alter the talent and age of the team at multiple positions.

For example, let's assume this trade (AJ for late 1st in 2014, and 3rd in 2015):

Maybe Texans use that extra 1st for a good RT or elite G... Then, they take some (not all) of that cap savings in free agency and sign the following:

TE- Pettigrew or Pitta (depending on offensive philosophy)
WR- Maclin
WR- G.Tate

I doubt that combination of player signings would approach the $12 million saved from AJ's loss (at least in the first couple contract years). So, AJ's gone, but, not counting the draft, here's the receiving group:

Maclin, Tate, Hopkins, Posey, KMartin
Pettigrew, Griffin, ?

at least on paper, that does not look like a bad situation... though, I understand how little "paper" can have to do with real football... Still, in some capacity, under a new regime, these are discussions that should happen during the winter months- heading into March free agency and then the draft.
 
dalemurphy said:
I'm not going to argue, because I don't know if spotrac is correct. If Spotrac is correct, however, the savings would be $12 million. Here is the link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/2014/
Click to expand...

Spotrac only gives the dead money for the current year. Just look at any other contract and you'll see no dead money for any years past 2013 just like Andre's. The dead money if AJ is cut/traded in 2014 should be the sum of all the miscellaneous and signing bonuses or about 14M. That dead money hit is larger than the cap hit so it would actually cost us cap space to move Andre. This is not surprising given all the restructures Andre has done in the past.
 
dsorc said:
Spotrac only gives the dead money for the current year. Just look at any other contract and you'll see no dead money for any years past 2013 just like Andre's. The dead money if AJ is cut/traded in 2014 should be the sum of all the miscellaneous and signing bonuses or about 14M. That dead money hit is larger than the cap hit so it would actually cost us cap space to move Andre. This is not surprising given all the restructures Andre has done in the past.
Click to expand...

Again, just to clarify. Some of those bonuses are roster bonuses so they don't apply if cut or traded. Over the cap appears correct at 180k cap savings.
 
Sure, trade your best offensive weapon. Smart :vincepalm:


And people hate Rick Smith, why not bash people like this with their stupid thoughts.
 
Exascor said:
Again, just to clarify. Some of those bonuses are roster bonuses so they don't apply if cut or traded. Over the cap appears correct at 180k cap savings.
Click to expand...
I just went with the easy math but your are right. There are 1M roster bonuses each year that account for the differences in our numbers. Same conclusion though, no cap value in getting rid of Andre.
 
dalemurphy said:
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.

Assuming this is accurate, I'm interested in your thoughts on this possibility. Given the wide range of views regarding the team's current cap health, talent level, etc... I'm interested in simply reading the various thoughts on this idea.

I'm not sure what I think. Clearly, a lot will depend on the new coaching staff and the direction the coach wants to move... and also on AJ's attitude towards the forth-coming changes. Also, given that we will likely cut or trade OD this off-season for $6 million in cap savings, would moving AJ also be detrimental to the develop of a rookie QB's development? Or, perhaps it is a good idea to have WRs and a young QB develop together instead of a rookie QB being awestruck and over-dependent upon an All-pro veteran. I'm not sure.

How would other veterans perceive this move? Do we care? Will winning next season be a primary goal in the off-season or will 2014 be viewed as a reset?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

what is all this dumb talk i hear about trading away AJ, not calling you dumb D, but serioulsy people. As bad as this season has been i imagine AJ still plans to finish his career here. Look at KC this season, this team is just a good QB and few other spots away from being a very good team.
 
eriadoc said:
No. AJ needs to stay here and drop balls that are right in his hands.
Click to expand...
Yea, that's what I'm thinking. Based on what I saw today, I dunno if Andre could
make the Broncos team given their talent at WR and his ineptness catching the ball.
 
And on cue the wishy washy worst fans in football find a waybto criticize the lone bright spot on this team currently and in its history. You scumbags are disgusting.
 
dsorc said:
I just went with the easy math but your are right. There are 1M roster bonuses each year that account for the differences in our numbers. Same conclusion though, no cap value in getting rid of Andre.
Click to expand...
Rats. I was going to say yes when you talked about 12 million. Now a trade doesn't look attractive.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Point out the wishy washy fans.
Click to expand...
Most of the most outrageous suggestions are from people who don't understand the Cap. They feel free to criticize the GM with no clue about what he really does.

Here is a list of relatively safe players for 2014 strictly because of their contract structure:

Bryan Cushing ($12.95M) This means it would cost almost $13M against the cap to cut him.

Duane Brown ($5M)

DeAndre Hopkins ($3M+)

Whitney Mercilus ($1M-)

D J Swearinger ($300K-)

This is a list of players at risk because of Salary Cap Savings:

Daniel Manning $4.5M

Owen Daniels $4.5M

Matt Schaub $4M

Jonathan Joseph $3.75M

Chris Meyers $3M

Kareem Jackson $1.7M-

Shane Lechler $1.4M+

Brooks Reed $1M+

Arian Foster $1M

Everyone else is close enough to their replacement cost to be judged on their football prowess and not salary cap considerations.
 
Last edited:
You know what? There is not too much that the Texans can be 100% proud of. AJ is. He is a sure hall of fame player, consistent as hell, he loves the Texans and is just a class act. Keeping AJ is about more than just production and salary cap implications - it is about giving the greatest player in our history the treatment he deserves.
 
Marshall said:
This is a list of players at risk because of Salary Cap Savings:

Daniel Manning $4.5M

Owen Daniels $4.5M

Matt Schaub $4M

Jonathan Joseph $3.75M

Chris Meyers $3M

Kareem Jackson $1.7M-

Shane Lechler $1.4M+

Brooks Reed $1M+

Arian Foster $1M

Everyone else is close enough to their replacement cost to be judged on their football prowess and not salary cap considerations.
Click to expand...

The ones in red are gone IMO.
 
I also recommend extending JJ Watt's contract this year rather than waiting for 2015. It should look something like this which requires just under $7M extra cap space in 2014: Signing bonus and First year guaranteed making it 42% guaranteed. He would be secure through 2017 due to cap hit considerations, but Houston could make a change after four years if the unexpected happens.

six year (or five year extension) - [$40M signing bonus]
2014 - $2M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2015 - $10M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2016 - $12M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2017 - $12M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2018 - $12M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2010 - $12M
 
If the Texans want to be dead to me all they need to do is trade or cut the best player in franchise history like the Oiler's did with Earl Campbell.
 
JB said:
I don't think Joseph or Reed is gone. Everything I've heard players say about Reed is that he does a very good job doing what he is asked to do.
Click to expand...

While the players noted are at risk, they still have to see what they get in the draft to determine whether they have an adequate replacement. I think we already have ODs replacement and will have Schaub's replacement. Manning and Joseph would take pretty good replacements before I'd let them go.
 
13 loses in a row isn't bad enough, we have to beat this originally built out of dog poo, dead horse some more?

.
 
Marcus said:
The ones in red are gone IMO.
Click to expand...

If Lovie comes in, I would expect Danieal Manning to return. Having his experience in Lovie's system, would justify that cap savings, I think.

Brooks Reed would likely be gone if we moved into a 4-3- doesn't make sense to invest the time/hope that he could learn an new position as he headed into the last year of his deal... Sure, he could play DE in a 4-3. However, Watt will play some DE in a 4-3, Mercilus is signed for 3 more years- is a better pass rusher and better player with hand down against the run... So, I don't see a natural fit for him.

J.Jo could go either way... My guess is he would stay unless the new staff is critical of him and believe he can/should be replaced by a veteran in the FA market for relatively little money ($2-$3 million/year)... McCain is likely to be cut... BHarris is in his last year and could be cut for $1 million is cap savings... that doesn't leave much on the roster at CB.
 
Thread topic and logic is very sports talk radio-ish.

Andre Johnson is not going anywhere. Bob McNair won't let it happen. The only way it happens is if AJ wants out of here. And so far he has shown no inclination or hint of wanting to play elsewhere.

As a fan, I want him to retire a Houston Texan. He epitomizes everything good about pro athletes, and his stature in the community goes well beyond football. I think McNair sees him this way, as well, and has called him a legacy player in the past. I would not be surprised if AJ is part of why McNair does not want to rebuild, but reload to contend next season.
 
Double Barrel said:
Thread topic and logic is very sports talk radio-ish.

Andre Johnson is not going anywhere. Bob McNair won't let it happen. The only way it happens is if AJ wants out of here. And so far he has shown no inclination or hint of wanting to play elsewhere.

As a fan, I want him to retire a Houston Texan. He epitomizes everything good about pro athletes, and his stature in the community goes well beyond football. I think McNair sees him this way, as well, and has called him a legacy player in the past. I would not be surprised if AJ is part of why McNair does not want to rebuild, but reload to contend next season.
Click to expand...

The Texans owe nothing to AJ IMO. We pay him a salary. If he didn't like being here, he wouldn't keep resigning with us.

I would like for him to be a Texan until he retires. I think the idea of trading him for his sake is really a crapshoot as much as staying here. Free agents who went to the Texans and Falcons this season thought they were going to a SB contender, and well look how that turned out.
 
Double Barrel said:
Thread topic and logic is very sports talk radio-ish.

Andre Johnson is not going anywhere. Bob McNair won't let it happen. The only way it happens is if AJ wants out of here. And so far he has shown no inclination or hint of wanting to play elsewhere.

As a fan, I want him to retire a Houston Texan. He epitomizes everything good about pro athletes, and his stature in the community goes well beyond football. I think McNair sees him this way, as well, and has called him a legacy player in the past. I would not be surprised if AJ is part of why McNair does not want to rebuild, but reload to contend next season.
Click to expand...

Sorry... I know what you mean. It is certainly a moot point now- knowing that trading/cutting him does not gain $12 million in cap savings, but would be a wash. I'm not wanting him to leaving. I actually think we can turn this thing around in one season but was interested in the thoughts of those who think this will be a larger overhaul than I do.
 
Brisco_County said:
Losing seasons inspire some really bad posts.

McNair will ensure that AJ retires a Texan.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you are right. That, however, are not good football decisions. Great organizations do not operate that way... If, at some point, the Texans have a financial decision to make regarding AJ and the football people believe his exit is best for the on field success of the team, I would hate for the Texans to commit to him out of some loyalty/desire to have him only play for Houston... We are not at that point now, but there will likely be a day when that issue exists... all of you so passionate about winning would certainly want AJ cut loose, right?
 
dalemurphy said:
Perhaps you are right. That, however, are not good football decisions. Great organizations do not operate that way... If, at some point, the Texans have a financial decision to make regarding AJ and the football people believe his exit is best for the on field success of the team, I would hate for the Texans to commit to him out of some loyalty/desire to have him only play for Houston... We are not at that point now, but there will likely be a day when that issue exists... all of you so passionate about winning would certainly want AJ cut loose, right?
Click to expand...

How about asking once AJ gets down to Kevin Walter in his prime performance level?
 
Anytime the word "trade' is involved, it is always about what a team is getting back. if somebody is trading a couple of 1sts then uhmm yeah, but if the compensation is 4th with a possible 3rd in 2015 then probably not. And no players are not owed damn thing but their check clearing.
 
houstonspartan said:
I thought I was the only one who could do without Cushing. Totally agree with you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

How anyone could see what happened to this team without him last year and this year and can say this is beyond me.

This team is a disaster without our on-field heart and soul. Cushing is the heart and the soul of this team. Yes, even more than JJ Watt. Watt has more impact and is a better player, but Cushing brought the fire and the passion. Dude is a top 5 linebacker when healthy. And he's not injury prone---he was taken out twice on dirty plays.

Brian Cushing should be a Houston Texan for life if he can come back and return to his pre-injury form.


As far as the original thread question, no thanks.
 
Double Barrel said:
Thread topic and logic is very sports talk radio-ish.

Andre Johnson is not going anywhere. Bob McNair won't let it happen. The only way it happens is if AJ wants out of here. And so far he has shown no inclination or hint of wanting to play elsewhere.

As a fan, I want him to retire a Houston Texan. He epitomizes everything good about pro athletes, and his stature in the community goes well beyond football. I think McNair sees him this way, as well, and has called him a legacy player in the past. I would not be surprised if AJ is part of why McNair does not want to rebuild, but reload to contend next season.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Although you never know what can develop in the off-season. He has an uncle who's been telling him to leave the Texans and join a consistent winning organization for a long time. There are people close to him not afraid to give him the brutal truth, and if he sees himself only having three or four more productive years why shouldn't he chase a Super Bowl ring while he still can?

The past two 12-4 and 10-6 seasons that have resulted in back-to-back wild card wins over the Bengals have helped, but this 2013 season has been a disaster to say the least. Andre Johnson is fed up with all of the losing and playing with mediocre quarterbacks and I don't blame him. If he asks to be traded then we should try and at least get the best deal offered. Which I'm thinking would be a second-round pick and a fourth-round pick. Not all that bad considering his age and great production. Keep in mind that wide receivers, especially his age, don't often bring back the type of value that you would expect.
 
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